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post #151 of 179 Old 11-10-2009, 08:29 PM
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post #152 of 179 Old 11-10-2009, 08:33 PM
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post #153 of 179 Old 01-15-2010, 10:12 AM
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Focusing of cam not perfect on this set of pix, but I think the colorations are nice -













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post #154 of 179 Old 02-01-2010, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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A recap of Mr. Bob's visit to San Antonio:

After a crazy and unusual start, Bob got to work on my set on a Monday mid day. The main thing to be done to my set were: 1) Check and re do focus 2) check and re do color decoding 3) check and fix a speed bump on the lower right hand side.

Bob had check the grayscale previously, and based on his observation and his instrument did not need any changes.

He had to redo all three color for focusing, yep that is right... all three. After that he tackled the speed bump by pretty much re doing the entire set structure and covergence. And finally color; where it was a shocker and news to me that you had to use different patters for the different colors. I don't know where I got that you could use the flashing lights one for all three. No wonder why I could only get blue right.

After Bob left I took some measurements with the Spyder, and tighten things up.

Here are the final results:

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."
Screening Room - The Dream House
RPCRT-TV Overscan Reduction
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post #155 of 179 Old 02-01-2010, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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these are the measurements after Bob did all the changes to the set. If you follow Kal's gude of grayscale for dummies, grayscale is very close on being with in tolerable deltas, only two IREs is above 10 delta, so technically I could've had left it like this.



And here are the measurements for colors, once again they are very respectable.


"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."
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RPCRT-TV Overscan Reduction
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post #156 of 179 Old 02-01-2010, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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I first touched up on the covergence and adjusted the circles to a tolerable error, they are very close.





Overscan changed, now it is at 0% in the bottom, not intentionally but that's the way it turned out.




"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."
Screening Room - The Dream House
RPCRT-TV Overscan Reduction
Reference Blu-Ray Demo Disc

Reference 2: Blu-Ray Demo Disc

The Best of the Demo Discs Demo Disc

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post #157 of 179 Old 02-01-2010, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are some shots of the color decoding. It looks better in person than in the shots and based on the readings green needs to be adjusted ... work for another day.

And I learned ... the pattern I was using is JUST for blue. (don't laugh too hard Bob).








"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."
Screening Room - The Dream House
RPCRT-TV Overscan Reduction
Reference Blu-Ray Demo Disc

Reference 2: Blu-Ray Demo Disc

The Best of the Demo Discs Demo Disc

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post #158 of 179 Old 02-01-2010, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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After touching up grayscale and color here are the measurements.




"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."
Screening Room - The Dream House
RPCRT-TV Overscan Reduction
Reference Blu-Ray Demo Disc

Reference 2: Blu-Ray Demo Disc

The Best of the Demo Discs Demo Disc

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post #159 of 179 Old 02-01-2010, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are the graphs.

These first ones are before I touched it up:




"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."
Screening Room - The Dream House
RPCRT-TV Overscan Reduction
Reference Blu-Ray Demo Disc

Reference 2: Blu-Ray Demo Disc

The Best of the Demo Discs Demo Disc

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post #160 of 179 Old 02-01-2010, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Graphs after touch up:




"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."
Screening Room - The Dream House
RPCRT-TV Overscan Reduction
Reference Blu-Ray Demo Disc

Reference 2: Blu-Ray Demo Disc

The Best of the Demo Discs Demo Disc

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post #161 of 179 Old 02-01-2010, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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And finally some screen shots, maybe not the best material, Terminator Salvation, the entire movie has a dull greyish feel, but thats what I've picked so thats what it is.














"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."
Screening Room - The Dream House
RPCRT-TV Overscan Reduction
Reference Blu-Ray Demo Disc

Reference 2: Blu-Ray Demo Disc

The Best of the Demo Discs Demo Disc

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post #162 of 179 Old 02-01-2010, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
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It was a great and fun experience having Mr. Bob over to calibrate my set. I would recommend Bob to anyone wanting to calibrate their tv. Great experience and lots of fun.
Thank you Bob.

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."
Screening Room - The Dream House
RPCRT-TV Overscan Reduction
Reference Blu-Ray Demo Disc

Reference 2: Blu-Ray Demo Disc

The Best of the Demo Discs Demo Disc

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post #163 of 179 Old 02-02-2010, 06:28 AM
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Hey superleo,

those calibration numbers look super (leo) with all your delta E for grayscale and color, even your gamma is more inline too. I could not get my delta E for 10 to 30 ire as close as yours. If you may I have a couple of questions:

Can you post a zip file of your hcfr cal here? I'd like to see the whole shebang, others might too...

In the "display" of HCFR I noticed you used "XYZ" I believe you are to use "xyY"? Maybe it really doesnt matter, I dont know...

Did you use the spyder II, and how long was your read time for the 0, 10, 20,30 ire windows?

Anyway, you and Bob did a nice job.... Is the difference subtle or great overall compared to where it was before this last calibration?

Heres mine from early last year, after I did it I had enough of it then and never fine tuned it, but its ok for me.

 

Hit 51uwx20b 12609Comp.zip 2.3623046875k . file

Angelo
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post #164 of 179 Old 02-02-2010, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelo M View Post
Hey superleo,

those calibration numbers look super (leo) with all your delta E for grayscale and color, even your gamma is more inline too. I could not get my delta E for 10 to 30 ire as close as yours. If you may I have a couple of questions:

Can you post a zip file of your hcfr cal here? I'd like to see the whole shebang, others might too...

In the "display" of HCFR I noticed you used "XYZ" I believe you are to use "xyY"? Maybe it really doesnt matter, I dont know...

Did you use the spyder II, and how long was your read time for the 0, 10, 20,30 ire windows?

Anyway, you and Bob did a nice job.... Is the difference subtle or great overall compared to where it was before this last calibration?

Heres mine from early last year, after I did it I had enough of it then and never fine tuned it, but its ok for me.
I used the SpyderII for this time, but I have an Eye-one too, why I have two meters is story in itself ... I plan to do some readings with the Eye-one as I have time later. I set it to 2000 read time to take the readings, and put it back at 300 while constant reading.

Bob changed two main thing; Drastically changed the setting on my sharpness, and got all three colors focus correctly. Just with that made a considerable change in PQ, not to mention colors are correct now.

The overall picture looks sharper, more defined and with more depth to it.

Here is the file:

 

01.29.10.lccal.zip 0.9560546875k . file

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."
Screening Room - The Dream House
RPCRT-TV Overscan Reduction
Reference Blu-Ray Demo Disc

Reference 2: Blu-Ray Demo Disc

The Best of the Demo Discs Demo Disc

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post #165 of 179 Old 02-02-2010, 12:51 PM
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Not a bad picture, by any stretch! He's been busy! It's fun to have such a great picture to start with!

More later -


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post #166 of 179 Old 02-02-2010, 12:55 PM
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Originals - and comments - can be found at this page -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...95922&page=213

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post #167 of 179 Old 02-02-2010, 12:59 PM
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Superleo,

Congratulations on your new improved picture. Yeah I read in one of these threads, it may have been you or someone else, who had these two sensors on hand,and the spyder II was more consistent with repeated readings than the eye one that it was compared to. At least thats how I remember it. I'm more than happy with my spyder II, wont replace or upgrade it unless it dies. Ha! thats the same attitude I have with my CRT HDTV too.

I was looking at you grayscale section: 120,581 to 1 contrast ratio. WOW.

I also noticed you 100 ire ft/lb at 35.196 with according to Greyscale for Dummies is right were it should be at.

I first calibrated mine to have a 100 ire window at 36 ft/lb but it just gave me headaches. I almost needed sunglasses to watch. I know mine is quite low but its where I like it.

Enjoy!

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post #168 of 179 Old 02-02-2010, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelo M View Post

Superleo,

Congratulations on your new improved picture. Yeah I read in one of these threads, it may have been you or someone else, who had these two sensors on hand,and the spyder II was more consistent with repeated readings than the eye one that it was compared to. At least thats how I remember it. I'm more than happy with my spyder II, wont replace or upgrade it unless it dies. Ha! thats the same attitude I have with my CRT HDTV too.

I was looking at you grayscale section: 120,581 to 1 contrast ratio. WOW.

I also noticed you 100 ire ft/lb at 35.196 with according to Greyscale for Dummies is right were it should be at.

I first calibrated mine to have a 100 ire window at 36 ft/lb but it just gave me headaches. I almost needed sunglasses to watch. I know mine is quite low but its where I like it.

Enjoy!

LastButNotLeast (Michael) did a very nice comparison of the two meters and posted his results in the calibration section of the forums, then I posted what I got comparing 3 meters, two Eye-one and a SpyderII. The results were somewhat different readings but not enough to deviate from the tolerable deltas.

CRTs are still the best vidophile technology out there, unless you go high end equipment wich of course is very expensive, commercial grade tvs, lcd or plasmas are getting better but not quit there yet, DLPs, XBRs and the likes are even closer but as we know they are not longer in production either. I'll keep my RPCRT as long as I can, it has the best picture quality around.

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."
Screening Room - The Dream House
RPCRT-TV Overscan Reduction
Reference Blu-Ray Demo Disc

Reference 2: Blu-Ray Demo Disc

The Best of the Demo Discs Demo Disc

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post #169 of 179 Old 02-05-2010, 02:38 AM
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superleo,

Congratulations on your results! Too bad pictures can not do the justice.
A few comments:
Looking at your greyscale it seems like you may want to try raising blue cutoff a bit. I think the reason you've got such a high contrast ratio is because Spider colorimeter is not accurate at low light. If you have Eye-One LT/2 laying around and free time, take some measurements and post your HCFR file here. It would be interesting to compare the results. I used to own Eye One 2 and replaced it later with DPT94 and never looked back.
Comparing the prior and after pictures posted here it looks like your mechanical focus was off and Mr. Bob raised the sharpness quite a bit.

Just for fun I'm attaching some of my calibration files.
I use pro mode on my pioneer elite as it allows to me to get rid of false contouring of STD mode. Though STD was used initially to get the set calibrated to 2.22 average gamma and then using greyscale controls in user menu calibrated the pro mode. I also attached calibration file with correction applied to greyscale on PC (PRO mode on Pioneer) and PS3 in RGB mode over HDMI with Pure digital enabled (STD mode on Pioneer). Basically color decoder is out of the picture and therefore no way to control color/tint(not needed really) minus sharpness control (that kind of sucks). I found it's the best to use excel calculator for color adjustments where primaries can be entered to calculate secondary targets (available in calibration thread). Color errors are minimal in RGB mode with Pure Digital enabled (though it's hard to judge with only colorimeter in hands). BTW I keep the screen shield on my Pioneer and it's tinted, so I loose about 20% of light output. I tried recommended 30-40ftL range but it's way too bright for me as I watch my tv with light turned off.

 

PRO.zip 4.4541015625k . file

 

PRO(corrected).zip 0.912109375k . file

 

STDPureRGBHDMI.zip 2.796875k . file
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post #170 of 179 Old 02-05-2010, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpaxadpom View Post

superleo,

Congratulations on your results! Too bad pictures can not do the justice.
A few comments:
Looking at your greyscale it seems like you may want to try raising blue cutoff a bit. I think the reason you've got such a high contrast ratio is because Spider colorimeter is not accurate at low light. If you have Eye-One LT/2 laying around and free time, take some measurements and post your HCFR file here. It would be interesting to compare the results. I used to own Eye One 2 and replaced it later with DPT94 and never looked back.
Comparing the prior and after pictures posted here it looks like your mechanical focus was off and Mr. Bob raised the sharpness quite a bit.

Just for fun I'm attaching some of my calibration files.
I use pro mode on my pioneer elite as it allows to me to get rid of false contouring of STD mode. Though STD was used initially to get the set calibrated to 2.22 average gamma and then using greyscale controls in user menu calibrated the pro mode. I also attached calibration file with correction applied to greyscale on PC (PRO mode on Pioneer) and PS3 in RGB mode over HDMI with Pure digital enabled (STD mode on Pioneer). Basically color decoder is out of the picture and therefore no way to control color/tint(not needed really) minus sharpness control (that kind of sucks). I found it's the best to use excel calculator for color adjustments where primaries can be entered to calculate secondary targets (available in calibration thread). Color errors are minimal in RGB mode with Pure Digital enabled (though it's hard to judge with only colorimeter in hands). BTW I keep the screen shield on my Pioneer and it's tinted, so I loose about 20% of light output. I tried recommended 30-40ftL range but it's way too bright for me as I watch my tv with light turned off.

Thanks, I appreciate the comments. I know this is what everyone says about their sets, but I can tell you that it really looks great after Mr. Bob's work and final (never final) touchups. I still want to get primaries alittle tighter, well green in particular, I think blue is where it needs to be (thanks again to Bob) and red, for these sets is excellent.

These Hitachies only have Blue CUT no Blue DRV, so once you get it close on the low end anything you do on the high end really affect the low end. I have it at one click adjustment either way (like Bob would say), but I'll keep trying to get it closer.

I'll take some reading with the Eye-one, thus We, LastButNotLeast and I, already did some comparisons between the Spyder and the Eye-one, and if you give the Spyder enough time to read, the differences are minor, at least with my SpyderII.

Another thing to consider on my set; I do not have any external processor, all the adjustments are directly from the set and the Hitachi's electronics, at one time or another I've considered adding a Lumagen or the likes for gamma and color adjustment but the itch hasn't been bad enough I guess.

Your numbers are great, although with an external processor, not easy, but easier to obtain, nonetheless outstanding.

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."
Screening Room - The Dream House
RPCRT-TV Overscan Reduction
Reference Blu-Ray Demo Disc

Reference 2: Blu-Ray Demo Disc

The Best of the Demo Discs Demo Disc

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post #171 of 179 Old 02-05-2010, 11:40 AM
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superleo,
do you use your PC as a source at all? My laptop is my main source for movie watching nowdays and there is no reason to spend thousands of dollars on lumagen (imho). The main drawback is that laptop doesn't support DTS-HD MA, PCM multichannel nor Dolby Digital True HD.
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post #172 of 179 Old 02-05-2010, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpaxadpom View Post

superleo,
do you use your PC as a source at all? My laptop is my main source for movie watching nowdays and there is no reason to spend thousands of dollars on lumagen (imho). The main drawback is that laptop doesn't support DTS-HD MA, PCM multichannel nor Dolby Digital True HD.

No, no computer at all in the hardware mix, although I though about it in the past, making a audio/video server, but when you have other non technical users the easier the better. It was bad enough at one time with four or five different remotes, that issue has been resolve with a harmony remote.

As far as serving up movies... a Sony 400 DVD mega player does quite well, it's not full yet but getting there. As far as Blurays goes, I have some, considered reference type ones mainly, and maybe in a year or so will consider buying the Sony 400 BD mega player, and start all over again filling it up with blurays... we'll see.

The PQ as it is, is outstanding ... I'm one of the few that actually got a RPCRT instead of a plasma or something else, and of course the added benefit was the price, besides having the space for such a tv.

As of right now I have no intentions on changing to anything else, and in my opinion CRTs still king.

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."
Screening Room - The Dream House
RPCRT-TV Overscan Reduction
Reference Blu-Ray Demo Disc

Reference 2: Blu-Ray Demo Disc

The Best of the Demo Discs Demo Disc

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post #173 of 179 Old 02-06-2010, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superleo View Post

Here are some shots of the color decoding. It looks better in person than in the shots and based on the readings green needs to be adjusted ... work for another day.

And I learned ... the pattern I was using is JUST for blue. (don't laugh too hard Bob).








Leo -

Looks like your blue is not fully optimised. The red and green are pretty close, and perhaps altering the blue will make them fall into place perfectly.

But the blue does not look fully right, in these pix -

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post #174 of 179 Old 02-22-2010, 02:39 PM
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Cross post of a shimming mod I did to my 57S500 Hitachi (which is very similar to the SWX20B series of sets):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post18184134
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post #175 of 179 Old 02-22-2010, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rader View Post

Cross post of a shimming mod I did to my 57S500 Hitachi (which is very similar to the SWX20B series of sets):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post18184134

Posted over there, very impressive shim, nice job!

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."
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RPCRT-TV Overscan Reduction
Reference Blu-Ray Demo Disc

Reference 2: Blu-Ray Demo Disc

The Best of the Demo Discs Demo Disc

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post #176 of 179 Old 01-10-2013, 11:06 AM
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Hi all

Today, I have Pioneer Elite PRO-730HD.
Bought it from a garage, it had moths.
I had to wait for them to die to clean it out.
Since I knew I was 1st cleaning, I only did 1 picture mode in SM to get to know process - worked fine - gained, oh 10% picture in that mode!

I'm confident enough to try shims.
Looking for voice of experience.

Does anyone, or a group have a measurement on what actually worked for blocking up gun mounts?
I'm looking for say, 2 1/4 in was just too much, top or bottom of gun/SM/user became limit, etc.

Any have shim related process notes?
I'm looking for - wish I'd done B before A, didn't need to do C, or handy bits and pieces

THANKS any and all!!
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post #177 of 179 Old 01-10-2013, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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How about the link below... It is an awesome thread on shimming a Pioneer Elite Pro X10-HD


http://www.avsforum.com/t/1129740/pioneer-elite-pro-x10hd-shim-mod-how-to-with-other-tweaks

I think you can get a lot out of these threads.

Let us know how it goes.

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post #178 of 179 Old 01-11-2013, 01:42 AM
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I'd be glad to be available to help if you want to contact me directly.

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post #179 of 179 Old 09-10-2013, 12:01 PM
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I am going to be in Portland OR from Sept. 18 to the 24th. If any of you owners would like to get together for coffee, a brew or a meal - or just to show off your system and get some bragging rights on this and other threads I man every day - let me know!

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