Official 2008 Samsung HL61A750/HL67A750 LED DLP Settings and Calibration Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 558 Old 04-24-2009, 06:43 AM
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your right slimy 46 i have the same probleme as you
but mine turn very much too red on standard mode
and i find standard ok for regular tv watching it clear & crisp
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post #272 of 558 Old 04-24-2009, 07:03 AM
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hi varus

when you made your setting in service menu 04/04/09
did you left all the other setting at factory default

thanks for help.
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post #273 of 558 Old 04-24-2009, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimy46 View Post

i have a 67750 an i put all the settings at the beginning of this thread for the 67 the only one problem i have is that i like alil britter picture then the movie mode so after i put all the settings in i went back to the picture mode an put it at standard what i noticed is that the tv when i shut it or switch hdmi inputs its switching back to dynamic is there a collaboaration for standard mode or how can i get the picture mode to stay at standard

This can happen if your set is in demo mode. Your manual has instructions for getting out of that one and into home mode. Demo is used mainly in stores to make it look brighter and to make it easier for salespeople to "reset" after customers play with the settings.
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post #274 of 558 Old 04-24-2009, 11:51 AM
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Lee, I don't even know what to say. You outdo yourself every time. I plugged in your new settings last night and the TV looks even better than your previous ones. I didn't get a chance to watch much but I will over the weekend. Stunning! Very very happy. Thanks so much for sharing your hard work with us.
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post #275 of 558 Old 04-24-2009, 12:19 PM
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Hello all

I am working on calibrating my samsung and have gathered several questions that i think yall could answer.

I am using color HFCR and a i1 sensor. The Samsung is fed from a Denon 3808, that switches a Tivo HD, a Ps3 and a Panasonic DvD player. I use the panny to run a custom calibration disk that i downloaded from one of the forum (thanks). I usually place the sensor in the lower right corner and use a full window for my readings.

I am using the WB menu to adjust the cut and gains at 30ire and 70ire this can give me reasonable grayscale tracking.

I have also been able to get my color points "spot on" for all of the primary and secondary colors, using the x and y adjustments for each primary and the Dx,Dy for the secondaries in the CCA menu.

Thing is my luminance Y readings were terrible as were my gamma settings.

so yesterday i worked with my gamma settings and contrast levels and i was able to real increse my contrast readings and my gamma and luminance values were much better but not with in range particularly in the middle grays.

This also whacked my gamut.

Right now I am going to reset to the factory defaults and start from scratch.

It is my thinking that I should start with the contrast and brightness then the gamma, readjusting all three until they fall in line, using the subcontrast and subbrightness settings in the WB Menu.

Then I would think to set the Y value for each color using the CCA menu. Then the primary colors starting with D65 using the white x,y in CCA.

Next the grayscale then the secondaries, recheck contast and brightness and perfection ensues


Now to the questions.

Does anyone think this will work?

What is the diffrence between using the (color)x,y and the D(color)x,y?

What is the best way to set the Y values?

Is "Y" the same as luminance?

Can any one point me to a good description of the service menu settings and what they do?

Will activating the "Factory reset" in the option menu reset the CCA settings ?

Is there any advice as to reseting the unit to the out of box settings.


Thank you for any info that you can. I am going to jump into this soon and will post my results as best I can.
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post #276 of 558 Old 04-24-2009, 12:51 PM
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At the risk of starting a minor jihad, there are currently three different (at least) suggestions for service tweaks for the 67" model. What is the current consensus (is there even that much?) on which is the "best" for the 67" at this point?
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post #277 of 558 Old 04-24-2009, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agrajag View Post

At the risk of starting a minor jihad, there are currently three different (at least) suggestions for service tweaks for the 67" model. What is the current consensus (is there even that much?) on which is the "best" for the 67" at this point?

There really isn't. Some work better on some sets more than others.
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post #278 of 558 Old 04-24-2009, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agrajag View Post

At the risk of starting a minor jihad, there are currently three different (at least) suggestions for service tweaks for the 67" model. What is the current consensus (is there even that much?) on which is the "best" for the 67" at this point?

See top post comments in red! It's amazing these settings transfer from 61" set to 61" set or 67" set to 67" set at all... Samsung has made obvious changes to firmware 1007.x that alters color adjust consistency between 61" and 67" models (at least those produced in early 2009 which includes my set and Varus's set and also one other set Varus was able to hook up color analyzer up to and get a good reading on).

Trying any of these settings for your display could lead to a worse picture than the Movie Mode:Warm 2 factory defaults; these sets have been praised throughout the industry for exceptional out of the box color accuracy. The goal with these settings is to take is from 95% to 98%.... But don't assume by copying any of these settings you're going to improve your display... Let your eyes be the judge or better yet buy a color meter and test for yourself.

Having said all of that, I hope you have good luck... Because when you nail down settings that do make an improvement, the end result is very nice!
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post #279 of 558 Old 04-24-2009, 01:37 PM
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I may just get an ISF guy out and do it. Need to wait a bit on that as the wife will have a cow if I did it in the next few weeks.
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post #280 of 558 Old 04-24-2009, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimy46 View Post

i have a 67750 an i put all the settings at the beginning of this thread for the 67 the only one problem i have is that i like alil britter picture then the movie mode so after i put all the settings in i went back to the picture mode an put it at standard what i noticed is that the tv when i shut it or switch hdmi inputs its switching back to dynamic is there a collaboaration for standard mode or how can i get the picture mode to stay at standard

If you don't like Movie Mode:Warm 2 settings then STOP RIGHT THERE. The entire focus of this thread is targeting US broadcast standard color accuracy through copying user settings and experimentation. If you prefer the brighter, saturated look of the Standard mode then you should leave your set at factory defaults. These settings will most likely take your Standard mode further away from the accurate than factory as they do not take into account anything except Movie:Warm 2, yet some of the service menu settings will effect Standard mode color regardless.
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post #281 of 558 Old 04-24-2009, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agrajag View Post

I may just get an ISF guy out and do it. Need to wait a bit on that as the wife will have a cow if I did it in the next few weeks.

That's always a good idea. You can try the settings listed at the beginning of this thread if you like. Just write down your defaults and try a few different versions of settings. You may find one you like. No harm in trying. Just follow the directions.
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post #282 of 558 Old 04-24-2009, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leroycorbid View Post

Hello all

I am working on calibrating my samsung and have gathered several questions that i think yall could answer.

I am using color HFCR and a i1 sensor. The Samsung is fed from a Denon 3808, that switches a Tivo HD, a Ps3 and a Panasonic DvD player. I use the panny to run a custom calibration disk that i downloaded from one of the forum (thanks). I usually place the sensor in the lower right corner and use a full window for my readings.

I am using the WB menu to adjust the cut and gains at 30ire and 70ire this can give me reasonable grayscale tracking.

I have also been able to get my color points "spot on" for all of the primary and secondary colors, using the x and y adjustments for each primary and the Dx,Dy for the secondaries in the CCA menu.

Thing is my luminance Y readings were terrible as were my gamma settings.

so yesterday i worked with my gamma settings and contrast levels and i was able to real increse my contrast readings and my gamma and luminance values were much better but not with in range particularly in the middle grays.

This also whacked my gamut.

Right now I am going to reset to the factory defaults and start from scratch.

It is my thinking that I should start with the contrast and brightness then the gamma, readjusting all three until they fall in line, using the subcontrast and subbrightness settings in the WB Menu.

Then I would think to set the Y value for each color using the CCA menu. Then the primary colors starting with D65 using the white x,y in CCA.

Next the grayscale then the secondaries, recheck contast and brightness and perfection ensues


Now to the questions.

Does anyone think this will work?

What is the diffrence between using the (color)x,y and the D(color)x,y?

What is the best way to set the Y values?

Is "Y" the same as luminance?

Can any one point me to a good description of the service menu settings and what they do?

Will activating the "Factory reset" in the option menu reset the CCA settings ?

Is there any advice as to reseting the unit to the out of box settings.


Thank you for any info that you can. I am going to jump into this soon and will post my results as best I can.

What is the diffrence between using the (color)x,y and the D(color)x,y?
D denotes a target setting for the CCA to use through calculations. I've only seen it for white points, not colors.

Is "Y" the same as luminance?

Yes.

Can any one point me to a good description of the service menu settings and what they do?
Ask jcorwin.



Steps to calibrating this set:

In the user menus:

First, decide what mode(Dynamic, Standard, Movie) you are going to calibrate to for your selected input.

Second, decide what Gamut (color space) you want to use, i.e., sRGB.

Third, decide on which Color Tone you want to use, i.e., Cool1 or 2, Normal, Warm1 or 2(Warm only available in Movie Mode).

Set your LED level to something other than Auto

Turn OFF any Dynamic settings.

Adjust your color and tint to their halfway points.

Adjust your black level, then your contrast to what you want. Then be sure to go back and check each after adjusting the other, until you balance it out.

Now, make an initial run of grayscale and gamut. Save it as a separate file in HCFR, for your reference later.

Get into the Service Menus.

Get to the CCA menu, and turn it off.

Now, if you wish to keep using your factory settings for Red, Green, and Blue x,y,Y then do NOT follow the next steps a,b,c.

a. Go to the DDP3021 menu, cursor down to the test pattern selection. Cursor right and you should have a full screen of RED. You should bring up your Gamut measures, and take a measurement for RED. Cursor right again, and I believe the screen will turn GREEN. Take a meaurement. Cursor right again, and measure what should be a BLUE screen. (Note: all your measurements need to be in cd/m2, NO ftL)

b. Get back to the CCA menu and enter these measurements, then cursor down to the Color Sensor Save item, right cursor to select it, then right cursor once and wait for it to say OK. (You should see the screen pulse with white 3 times). This will re-enable the CCA. Hit the menu button to take you back to the main CCA menu, cursor down to WB Spread, right cursor, then right cursor again, wait for the OK to appear.

c.You will now have to exit out of the service menu, and retake your grayscale and gamut measurements again.

This next step is what I use to be able to take my measurements while still in the Service Menus. To do this, you MUST use MOVIE mode, with either Warm1 or Warm2 Color Tone.

Write down all your User Menu settings for the input you are calibrating to.

Enter the Service Menu
Select the Option Byte menu(be very careful when you cursor right, because the first item on this menu is the FACTORY RESET!)
Cursor down to the Expert Adj option.
Cursor right to select it, cursor left or right to turn it on.

Hit your menu button to take you back to the service menus.
Cursor down to Expert Settings.
Right cursor to select the Calibration item.
Right/Left cursor to turn Calibration ON.
Cursor down once, you should be in the P-MODE menu item.
Cursor right until Calibration appears.
Cursor down once, you should be in the Color Tone menu item.
Cursor right/left to select Warm1 or Warm2.
Cursor down until you see Contrast.
Cursor right/left to set it what you had in the User Menu.
Cursor down until you see Brightness.
Cursor right/left to set it what you had in the User Menu.
Cursor down until you see Color.
Cursor right/left to set it what you had in the User Menu.
Cursor down until you see Sharpness.
Cursor right/left to set it what you had in the User Menu.

Hit the MENU button to get back to the main Service menu page.

Cursor down till you get to the Expert D-Settings.
Cursor right to select.
Cursor right on the Black Adjust option.
Cursor right/left to set it to OFF.
Cursor down once, you should see Dynamic Contrast.
Cursor right/left to set it to OFF.
Cursor down once, you should see Gamma.
Cursor right/left to set it to 0.
Cursor down once, you should see Flesh Tone.
Cursor right/left to set it to 0.
Cursor down once, you should see Edge Enhancement.
Cursor right/left to set it to OFF.

Hit the MENU button to get back to the main Service Menu page.

Cursor down until you get to the Expert Others menu item.
Cursor right to select.
Cursor right on Size.
Cursor right/left to select Just Scan.
Cursor down until you see NR.
Cursor right/left to set it to OFF.

Hit the MENU button to get back to the main Service Menu page.

Now, cursor down until you get back to the Expert Settings menu.

Cursor right to select.
Cursor down to the P-Mode setting.
Cursor right to select.
Cursor right again. ( you should see the screen sort of pulse).

You can now take measurements that match your user menu settings while in the service menus. To minimize interference, I will select a single menu item, so its just a small bar in on the screen.

OK, now to calibrate the Gamut and grayscale.

Go to the Desaturation menu, verify the Desaturation MODE is set to the Gamut you are going to use in the User Menu.

Take a full measurements run now of grayscale and gamut. You should save it, and compare it to what it was in the user menus, just to make sure. There may be some minor differences, which happens, but nothing glaringly different, like the Y has jumped way up.

To adjust your primaries and secondaries, you will need to go to the Desaturation menu.

Cursor down to the first color you need to change for the Gamut you are using.

Cursor right on the x setting for that color.

Using continuous readings, you can vary the x or y to move that color. When you change an item, you need to cursor up or down to make it take effect immediately. Then take a few readings until the readings settle back down.

Do this for each primary color, then take another set of Gamut measurements.

If the primaries look good, go after the secondaries.

After adjusting them, you'll want to remeasure grayscale and gamut again. If the gamut is good, but grayscale is out of adjustment, you'll have to correct it next. If gamut still needs tweaking, go back over it again. Then of course you need to remeasure everything again.

Grayscale coarse adjustment:
Go back to the main Service Menu, cursor up/down to the Cinema CCA menu. Cursor right to select it.
Cursor down to either the Warm1 or Warm2 x,y adjustments(whichever you set up in the Expert settings).

Bring up your grayscale measurement graphs. Set your input signal to send a t50% stim screen. Start taking continuous readings at 50% stim.

Now, as you cursor left/right on the x and y coordinates, you will see the colors align to your white point. When that's completed, you will want to take a full set of grayscale and gamut runs to see what you have to adjust next.

You will use the WB menu to adjust the offset and gains of the grayscale the same way you set the 50% stim, until you get grayscale smoothed out. I would recommend measuring 30% and 80% and adjusting to those.

When you finally get done with the settings, exit out of the service menus , and take another set of measurements. Verify your black and contrast levels as well.

You'll note, when you go to the User menus and select the MODE, it will now say Calibration instead of Movie. It will also lock out most of the normally changeable settings.

Happy calibrating!


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post #283 of 558 Old 04-24-2009, 07:51 PM
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I know that with some of the new sets like the Samsung 6000/7000/8000 series and some of the 2008 model TV's have the whole motion flow 120 Hz technology which gives the picture that soap opera or video look. I am not that interested in that part of the technology but what I do like about it; which I noticed that the 67a750 doesn't have is how smooth and stable the source signal (movie or program) looks when this is on. The camera stays controlled and does not shake leaving everything on the scene crystal clear without blur.

My question is I use my computer to play my blue ray movies; and I was wondering if anyone knows if computers are capable of performing the motion flow like the TV's listed above. Does anyone now if maybe there is a graphics card that will allow playback onto our TV that will allow motion flow to be activated through the computer?
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post #284 of 558 Old 04-24-2009, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAPOLUCA View Post

I know that with some of the new sets like the Samsung 6000/7000/8000 series and some of the 2008 model TV's have the whole motion flow 120 Hz technology which gives the picture that soap opera or video look. I am not that interested in that part of the technology but what I do like about it; which I noticed that the 67a750 doesn't have is how smooth and stable the source signal (movie or program) looks when this is on. The camera stays controlled and does not shake leaving everything on the scene crystal clear without blur.

My question is I use my computer to play my blue ray movies; and I was wondering if anyone knows if computers are capable of performing the motion flow like the TV's listed above. Does anyone now if maybe there is a graphics card that will allow playback onto our TV that will allow motion flow to be activated through the computer?

No matter what you send this TV, it will always have to convert the signal to work on the DLP chip, which will be 120hz to complete one frame in two passes. There is no motion flow tech for DLP, since the response time of the mirrors is in microseconds, not the slower milliseconds that LCD tech uses. What you're seeing is more due to the use of a half resolution DMD panel with wobulation. If this was a projector, it would probably be using 3 full resolution DMD panels, and you would probably not see the problem at all.

All display types have some sort of shortcoming(s). It's what you're willing to live with that matters. If they had made any more CRT based HDTVs that used 9 inch guns instead of 7 inch, I would have stayed with CRT.


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post #285 of 558 Old 04-24-2009, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAPOLUCA View Post

I know that with some of the new sets like the Samsung 6000/7000/8000 series and some of the 2008 model TV's have the whole motion flow 120 Hz technology which gives the picture that soap opera or video look. I am not that interested in that part of the technology but what I do like about it; which I noticed that the 67a750 doesn't have is how smooth and stable the source signal (movie or program) looks when this is on. The camera stays controlled and does not shake leaving everything on the scene crystal clear without blur.

My question is I use my computer to play my blue ray movies; and I was wondering if anyone knows if computers are capable of performing the motion flow like the TV's listed above. Does anyone now if maybe there is a graphics card that will allow playback onto our TV that will allow motion flow to be activated through the computer?

Not on Blu-Ray disc (yet) however, Corel WinDVD has an option which creates the same effect on DVD disc. The current version of WinDVD does support Blu-Ray playback, but since this feature is so processor intensive it's not yet supported for Blu-Ray... in the future I anticipate you will find PC based Blu-Ray software providing this, but the question is why would you want to do this to film material intended for 24fps playback?

IMO, MotionFlow (called AMP on Samsung LCDs) is very nice on video source material and perhaps video games, but useless for film.

The new 2009 Mitsubishi DLP sets are rumored to have something like this so you might want to check them out.
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post #286 of 558 Old 04-25-2009, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agrajag View Post

At the risk of starting a minor jihad, there are currently three different (at least) suggestions for service tweaks for the 67" model. What is the current consensus (is there even that much?) on which is the "best" for the 67" at this point?

I have 67" 1005.3 firmware and Lee's latest settings work very well. Way better than factory or other settings I've tried. I do play around in user menu to bring a little brightness to the picture, but Lee's settings make it look like you can walk into the tv and be in the action. Awesome really with my set!
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post #287 of 558 Old 04-25-2009, 11:26 AM
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Just thought I'd give you guys a quick update. I've recalibrated with Overlap set to 15%. First the bad news: no noticeable improvement to yellow. The only way I can bring yellow in still is by increasing red Y to silly levels (30 instead of ~21). Now the good news! In the previous settings there was an issue where if you increased contrast beyond around 87, a noticeable yellow tint appeared. That is now fixed and the white level can be maxed out (96/46 for me) without any error. Incidentally I had a strange experience when doing this calibration: I set overlap to 15% and then used CCA/color to get the Y values correct. When the Y values were accurate, somehow the warm 2 white point had been changed to precisely 9300K AND all secondary colors were perfectly reflected across that white point! It doesn't mean anything and it's all accurate now, just thought it was an interesting coincidence. I'll post the new settings tomorrow.
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post #288 of 558 Old 04-25-2009, 11:37 AM
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Wow couldn't thank you more. Someone should sticky this. I did some work last night and was able to correct my luminance and gamma to acceptable levels and was going to work the gamut today. but i think that i will try to dump everything and use your method. i will wait to post any results until it is reworked.

Many Thanks!!!
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post #289 of 558 Old 04-25-2009, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunnur97 View Post

I have 67" 1005.3 firmware and Lee's latest settings work very well. Way better than factory or other settings I've tried. I do play around in user menu to bring a little brightness to the picture, but Lee's settings make it look like you can walk into the tv and be in the action. Awesome really with my set!

I am also happy using Lee's settings on 67" 1007.4 fw, built Jan09. I guess, everyone should just try the SM settings and see for themselves since results do seem to vary between rmz76's set vs. many 67" owned by other members.
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post #290 of 558 Old 04-25-2009, 11:39 PM
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My actuator gain was at 42 from the factory. I raised and lower it as instructed in the manual and ended up at 45. At 42 I still saw the sawtooth shape on the edges and at 45 it dissappear and it is smooth. Then around 48 started to show again so I left it at 45. Is that what they mean in the manual?
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post #291 of 558 Old 04-26-2009, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eat2na View Post

My actuator gain was at 42 from the factory. I raised and lower it as instructed in the manual and ended up at 45. At 42 I still saw the sawtooth shape on the edges and at 45 it dissappear and it is smooth. Then around 48 started to show again so I left it at 45. Is that what they mean in the manual?

Yes.


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post #292 of 558 Old 04-27-2009, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Bailey View Post



Steps to calibrating this set:

..............

Happy calibrating!

Lee, thanks for the detailed writeup. This is more or less the method I've been using with HCFR and my I1 D2. It does have some minor variances, so I may try using this to get my own results a little closer.

jrcorwin, can we get this writeup put into the first post in this thread? This is the actual procedure one should use if they have the equipment to do so.
Thanks!
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post #293 of 558 Old 04-27-2009, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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jrcorwin, can we get this writeup put into the first post in this thread? This is the actual procedure one should use if they have the equipment to do so.
Thanks!

Not a problem.
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post #294 of 558 Old 04-27-2009, 12:49 PM
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Well, my new lens and DLP chip are in, and the tech comes out next week to replace them in an effort to get rid of the faded white spot(s) in dark scenes. Got my fingers crossed that it will correct the problem, and (more importantly) that the set won't be worse off after the repair.

I've been dying to try Lee's new settings, but I'm waiting until after the repair.
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post #295 of 558 Old 04-27-2009, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by BATman94 View Post

Well, my new lens and DLP chip are in, and the tech comes out next week to replace them in an effort to get rid of the faded white spot(s) in dark scenes. Got my fingers crossed that it will correct the problem, and (more importantly) that the set won't be worse off after the repair.

I've been dying to try Lee's new settings, but I'm waiting until after the repair.

I have the same fade out but is hardly noticeable. I tried to show the spot it to my wife and also teen daughter but they can't see it. Sometimes I don't notice it unless I look for it. So I don't want to go to the hassle of getting a tech and all that. Let me know if your problem get resolved.
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post #296 of 558 Old 04-27-2009, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by eat2na View Post

I have the same fade out but is hardly noticeable. I tried to show the spot it to my wife and also teen daughter but they can't see it. Sometimes I don't notice it unless I look for it. So I don't want to go to the hassle of getting a tech and all that. Let me know if your problem get resolved.

Will do.

Yes, for me it seemed to appear a couple of months ago after having the set for several months--I swear it wasn't there when I first got it. Mine is definitely visible in dark scenes (e.g. "24", "Dark Knight"), and whenever there is a black background. Since it was under warranty, and I paid a good penny for it, I felt it needed addressing despite all the other pluses of the set.
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post #297 of 558 Old 04-28-2009, 05:36 AM
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Hi everyone,

After some slow tweaking with Lee's settings, I finally got live broadcast ugly plainted faces with desert dead white teeth, setup to my liking (Actually dislike).

Wife sees the makeup, but when pointing out movies and such, her normal vission cannot see racoon eyes as much as I.

As a good test on white balance, last night's House was awsome. Though there was no disclamer for those who are prone to seizures from bright rapid flashing lights.

There was a scene that showed bright flashes of white, it was truely awsome on this TV. The skin tones stayed true along with all the objects in view.

As my tv is calibrated for low to mid-low light conditions, the bright white flashes were so impressive, even as it were reflecting from faces and objects.

Yes, my 2010 Panasonic 42C2 performs better than an S2 No floating blacks and keeps the lowest black levels.
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post #298 of 558 Old 04-28-2009, 01:35 PM
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Re-posting this since I found an error in the last one.

For those of you who are adjusting sRGB with software and a meter, please try out this spreadsheet. Enter your measured gamut (x,y) measurements, and your current sRGB desat RGBCMY x y settings.

For CALMAN users, you'll need to be able to see a data grid that you can get this information from.

Please feel free to try it out, and let me know if you found some error I didn't catch.

sRGB_Desat_Calculator_v1_3.xls


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post #299 of 558 Old 04-29-2009, 12:47 AM
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Just got done calibrating another user's 67". This time I did not change any of the CCA settings from the factory.

Grayscale Before:



After:



Gamut Before:



Gamut After:



I found with this TV at firmware 1007.4, I could not perform the dynamic changes to grayscale or gamut when in the service menus. Though I found my Desat Calculator to work great!


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post #300 of 558 Old 04-29-2009, 05:36 AM
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Those calibration results look very similar to how mine ended up.
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