2009 Mitsubishi Owners Thread (C9/737/837) - Page 306 - AVS Forum
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post #9151 of 11289 Old 08-26-2010, 10:59 AM
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As many of you know, I have been messing with the calibration of my 82837 since I bought it. One issue that has driven me nuts since day one I have not discussed on the forum because I was not sure if it was unique to my set, my meter, my environment, or exactly what was causing it.

What I was seeing was that you could calibrate to a high degree of accuracy but within some random amount of time, sometimes within an hour, sometimes a day, the grayscale would drift, or oscillate. I thought it was my meter, as it would seem to have some correlation to the room temperature. I have two hvac vents that blow pretty much straight down on the set. So I would try to calibrate between AC runs, that seemed to help but sometimes the brightness would drop and green levels would shift no matter what I would do.

I had the meter calibrated, tried this and that, all the while I am going through one new beta after another of the DVDO Duo firmware which while continously improving and is now an extraordinary device for the money, always added another wrinkle. My Pioneer player levels did not match the TV set and caused clipping at a different contrast level then Duo. Small issue after issue clouding what was gong on with the set and its tendency to have grayscale and brightness drift. Anyway I have calibrated my set many times and have come to know its quirks pretty well.

It is a good thing I never paid a pro to work my set. He or she might have come in, did a good job, charged me $500 and then went back to their home state only for my TV to go way off a few days later.

I finally decided that it might be something in the thermal management of the set. I run the set with the lamp on bright. The 2009 82" sets are not light cannons, so they need to be cranked up. The lamp temperature might be getting too high and the logic board was dropping the voltage on the lamp perhaps by design or the spectral characteristics of the bulb change at a certain temperature. I believe it is the former. So either my set has faulty thermal management of the lamp as in a bad chip or sensor, or the Mits firmware just takes its toys and goes home if you run the set too bright.

I bought one of these free standing ThermalTake PC USB fans. A lot of people use them to cool AV equipment. It turned out to be an almost exact height match to the fresh air intake grill for the lamp. It was about 20 bucks with overnight shipping from Amazon. Now it is not completely silent so that might be an issue for some. It does have a speed control, I have been running it on full. I can hear it when I am behind the 82837 but my ambient envrionment is rather noisy so I can't hear it from the couch.

The USB fan blowing into the set at the lamp air intake seems to have completely solved the grayscale drift I was seeing before. There is still some tiny variations in peak brightness, but that is too be expected. dEs are staying put, and grayscale tracking is staying dead on.

I use to hate to get to fussy with the adjustments as it was a waste of time, they were going to shift anyway. Now it is a very stead ship. I will finish a fine tune on grayscale and gamut in the next few days that show some very low error numbers. Credit for the low color errors will have to be given to the DVDO Video Processor, the Mits can't adjust that close on its own, but I never bothered to really work it as tightly as possible because I new that the it would drift anway, and on top of that there was always going to another firmware release from DVDO for the Duo coming in a week or so. The Duo will continue to get new firmware, but that is all for the good. The set is stable and so you are not try to hit a constantly moving target.

Clipping is still a problem with the set, some of that is a remaining bug in the Duo and blue is the one color that I still can not get the dE to go much if any below 2. The other colors all have delta errors on CIE 94 of 1.1 or less. Some people say a dE of 3 or less on color is where you want to be. Tom Huffman who is the developer of ChromaPure says the dE needs to be 1.5 or less to be undetectable.

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post #9152 of 11289 Old 08-26-2010, 05:08 PM
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That's very interesting, gtgray. Congrats on finally getting it figured out.

If I had to guess, I'd lean towards Mits thermal management doing that by design, but undocumented. Did you hunt thru the service manual to see if it might be a footnote somewhere? They might not have figured on running into a gtgray-level of OCD color managment.

I think I'll link this in the FAQ to one of the lamp Q/As (Edit: done as update/edit to Q/A #16 of the FAQ).
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post #9153 of 11289 Old 08-26-2010, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georule View Post

That's very interesting, gtgray. Congrats on finally getting it figured out.

If I had to guess, I'd lean towards Mits thermal management doing that by design, but undocumented. Did you hunt thru the service manual to see if it might be a footnote somewhere? They might not have figured on running into a gtgray level of OCD color managment.

I think I'll link this in the FAQ to one of the lamp Q/As.

Actually, if I was OCD about color they would locked me up by now. It is more that if you spend over 4K for a display, a video processor and a meter, you ought to be able calibrate the blasted thing and have it stay calibrated for a few days at least.

I haven't found much use in the service manual except to confirm from parts list about the only hardware differences between an xC9 and an x737 is some cosmetic part, all the boards are the same, the optical engine, mirrors, screen, power supply, yada, yada. I just threw that bit in for those people who seem insistent on maintaining that there is some major differences in the C9 and 737. Georule as your so excellent FAQs make clear there ain't, no matter how much some people who spent more on the 737s wish there was. Firmware deltas I will agree, the rest not so much.

I would like to get my hands on the Service Manual for the 2010.... I know the 82" uses a different lamp. I would love to see if the screen is the same. So far the 2010 Service Manual does not seem to have made it into the wild.

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post #9154 of 11289 Old 08-26-2010, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedbump View Post

From the wisdom of current owners, what is the consensus of buying one of these sets used? I had been considering ordering one from Dell, but there are currently a 65, 73 and 82" posted locally on Craigslist from people moving and/or downsizing. Is the factory warranty transferable? Can I but a 3rd party warranty on a used set? What should I check out before buying?

They are all currently listed at prices that are way too high (most are close to, or higher than recent Dell sale prices on new ones), but I imagine they will be willing to negotiate when they have problems getting their asking price. I'm just trying to decide how much I'd have to save to make it worth buying used rather than new.

Thanks for any opinions.

People tend to think their stuff is worth more than it is when they sell it.... good luck getting them to drop asking price. Especially if they paid retail vs the Dell/TigerDirect sale prices. They may already be asking $500-700 below what they paid.
Unless it's a real deal, i'd stick to buying new. I'm sure there a few good deals coming to get rid of any remaining 2009 stock soon. But if you do look at used, better check out geometry closely. As well as verifying all inputs work.
If these are last years models being sold they very well could be at end of manufacturers warranty. Most extended warranties require purchase in first 30-90 days.
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post #9155 of 11289 Old 08-26-2010, 07:33 PM
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post #9156 of 11289 Old 08-26-2010, 09:08 PM
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ok I'm not nearly as adept as most of the people in this thread. Spell out wtf is going on in that picture. hehe
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post #9157 of 11289 Old 08-26-2010, 09:37 PM
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lol, just look at the web address.

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post #9158 of 11289 Old 08-26-2010, 09:53 PM
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yeah I saw that, but I was hoping for specifics. I'm curious
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post #9159 of 11289 Old 08-27-2010, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwhyrock View Post

yeah I saw that, but I was hoping for specifics. I'm curious

The decor is "Early American Ghetto".

Coffee table with some lumber tacked to the back of it to serve as a makeshift pillar for the TV mount. Little computer speaker stuck on top as center channel.

Definitely hi-tech though, as can be seen from the cable modem and Linksys wifi router at bottom right.

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post #9160 of 11289 Old 08-27-2010, 08:26 AM
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Anybody have suggestions on how to fix the bowing on the bottom and enable 1:1 pixel mapping or should I call a service tech out? This tv is brand new! It's the wd73c9. Also, does anybody have final calibrations for these sets? I tried the ones in the faq and they were way too warm and washed out. Thanks in advance!
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post #9161 of 11289 Old 08-28-2010, 07:57 AM
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I just bought a WD-73C9 from a company that sells Best Buy's overstock and the set has geometry issues that can't be corrected using the service menu.

The TV was manufactured in December 2009 so it should still be under manufacturer's warranty but I do not have an original receipt. Those of you who have had work done by Mitsubishi under warranty, do they ask for the receipt?

Thanks
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post #9162 of 11289 Old 08-28-2010, 11:24 AM
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Yes they do everytime...I have had repair done twice and the repair tech took it both times...
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post #9163 of 11289 Old 08-28-2010, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaronp88 View Post

I just bought a WD-73C9 from a company that sells Best Buy's overstock and the set has geometry issues that can't be corrected using the service menu.

The TV was manufactured in December 2009 so it should still be under manufacturer's warranty but I do not have an original receipt. Those of you who have had work done by Mitsubishi under warranty, do they ask for the receipt?

Thanks

I would register the TV with Mits and work with customer service right away. They should not really argue too much about proof of purchase based on the manufacturing date. If you used a credit card, or anything beside cash you should be able to get some evidence of the transaction to support your case. I am sure Mits customer servive can work around this for you. You might have to escalate to a manager or case worker to get the warranty work done. I would get right on it. I would also see if the seller can do some kind of reprint of the original invoice. I for the life of me could not find my invoice for my 82837 and I will need it shortly as I intend to buy a Mack extended warranty, Best Buy had the capability to reprint it for me.

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post #9164 of 11289 Old 08-29-2010, 12:42 AM
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Okay guys anyone had this problem yet......

I have an 82737
Onkyo 876
X box 360
Wii
PS3
Att Uverse
LG Bd570
Logitech harmony one remote

with all the other bells and whistles that don't apply to the question.

I have the remote set up to "play ps3", "watch blu-ray", etc but for whatever reason if it is in any other activity than "watch blu-ray" and I manually eject a disc or manually press the Blu ray power button, the 876 goes to the input of the blu-ray. I try and change the input via the harmony or manually on the 876 and it will go back to the blu-ray input within 5 seconds. I figure it is some handshake issue of some sort but really lost as to why it happens.

The only way I found to fix it is to unplug the hdmi from the the lg 570, cycle the power conditioner, and then press an activity other than "watch blu-ray" on the remote.

Backround info....
Once I eject the disc on the player or manually press the power button the 876 switches instantly and when I try and change back to another activity the small HDMI icon on the 876 display flashes for a few seconds before switching back to the blu-ray input.
I have everything hooked up via HDMI from each unit to the 876 with the single HDMI output to the TV.
When I had my my 73732 in my living room I never had this problem.
Thoughts??????
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post #9165 of 11289 Old 08-29-2010, 12:15 PM
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Can anyone explain how the Mits TV resolutions work together with the D* boxes? I've played with the settings in both but never seem to quite figure out what's going on. On the D* box I can press the format key and it brings up "1080i Stretch" right now, but no matter what channel I go to it does the same thing. If I hold the button down for a few seconds it changes.

Most of the time I'm very happy with the picture, but after coming out of 3d, it never seems as clear, even though I remember to go into the TV menu and manually change it out of 3D mode.
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post #9166 of 11289 Old 08-29-2010, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedbump View Post

From the wisdom of current owners, what is the consensus of buying one of these sets used? I had been considering ordering one from Dell, but there are currently a 65, 73 and 82" posted locally on Craigslist from people moving and/or downsizing. Is the factory warranty transferable? Can I but a 3rd party warranty on a used set? What should I check out before buying?

They are all currently listed at prices that are way too high (most are close to, or higher than recent Dell sale prices on new ones), but I imagine they will be willing to negotiate when they have problems getting their asking price. I'm just trying to decide how much I'd have to save to make it worth buying used rather than new.

Thanks for any opinions.


I bought mine last October used..that is a return to HH Gregg...I also got their 5 year warranty to go along with it. When I looked at it at the store there was a patch of dust on the lens on the inside and I made a big deal of it at the time because it made the tv less than perfect. I haggled the price for all (stand, TV, warranty) to 1400. Now the warranty was 399 and the stand was about 150 but the TV itself was 825.

So I would say yes but only with such a warranty or if you can get one on it. After a week I called Mitz and a guy came out and cleaned the lens and did some minor calibration settings without the full deal. He also told me that he could calibrate but it would be suggestive to my eye. So I used my Essential DVD and Avia. Good luck.
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post #9167 of 11289 Old 08-29-2010, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kchill View Post

I bought mine last October used..that is a return to HH Gregg...I also got their 5 year warranty to go along with it. When I looked at it at the store there was a patch of dust on the lens on the inside and I made a big deal of it at the time because it made the tv less than perfect. I haggled the price for all (stand, TV, warranty) to 1400. Now the warranty was 399 and the stand was about 150 but the TV itself was 825.

So I would say yes but only with such a warranty or if you can get one on it. After a week I called Mitz and a guy came out and cleaned the lens and did some minor calibration settings without the full deal. He also told me that he could calibrate but it would be suggestive to my eye. So I used my Essential DVD and Avia. Good luck.

Thanks for the thoughts. I found out the 73 and 82 were older models so I ruled them out. The 65 is only 6 months old (C9). I was thinking I'd like to have a bigger 73, but if I can get the 65 for dirt cheap I may go for it.
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post #9168 of 11289 Old 08-29-2010, 09:05 PM
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Trust me you want the 73...
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post #9169 of 11289 Old 08-29-2010, 09:29 PM
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Are you telling me a bigger tv is better??? Oh wait.. Yeah 73
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post #9170 of 11289 Old 08-30-2010, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by werty7777 View Post

Okay guys anyone had this problem yet......

I have an 82737
Onkyo 876
X box 360
Wii
PS3
Att Uverse
LG Bd570
Logitech harmony one remote

with all the other bells and whistles that don't apply to the question.

I have the remote set up to "play ps3", "watch blu-ray", etc but for whatever reason if it is in any other activity than "watch blu-ray" and I manually eject a disc or manually press the Blu ray power button, the 876 goes to the input of the blu-ray. I try and change the input via the harmony or manually on the 876 and it will go back to the blu-ray input within 5 seconds. I figure it is some handshake issue of some sort but really lost as to why it happens.

The only way I found to fix it is to unplug the hdmi from the the lg 570, cycle the power conditioner, and then press an activity other than "watch blu-ray" on the remote.

Backround info....
Once I eject the disc on the player or manually press the power button the 876 switches instantly and when I try and change back to another activity the small HDMI icon on the 876 display flashes for a few seconds before switching back to the blu-ray input.
I have everything hooked up via HDMI from each unit to the 876 with the single HDMI output to the TV.
When I had my my 73732 in my living room I never had this problem.
Thoughts??????

Try turning off the CEC Control function.
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post #9171 of 11289 Old 08-30-2010, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedbump View Post

Thanks for the thoughts. I found out the 73 and 82 were older models so I ruled them out. The 65 is only 6 months old (C9). I was thinking I'd like to have a bigger 73, but if I can get the 65 for dirt cheap I may go for it.

A C9 is 2009, they have only ever made the 82 in 2009 and 2010.

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post #9172 of 11289 Old 08-30-2010, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

A C9 is 2009, they have only ever made the 82 in 2009 and 2010.

Interesting. They must have listed the wrong size or gave the wrong model number for the 82".
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post #9173 of 11289 Old 08-30-2010, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

A C9 is 2009, they have only ever made the 82 in 2009 and 2010.

My WD60-C9 was made in May 2010. The newer 638/738/838 just came out about 2 months ago, well into 2010.
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post #9174 of 11289 Old 08-30-2010, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4mula1 View Post

Try turning off the CEC Control function.

And just like that it is fixed. Thanks for that one!
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post #9175 of 11289 Old 08-30-2010, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mln1963 View Post

My WD60-C9 was made in May 2010. The newer 638/738/838 just came out about 2 months ago, well into 2010.

Doesn't matter when it was manufactured, it's the 2009 model

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Doesn't matter when it was manufactured, it's the 2009 model

Agreed.
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post #9177 of 11289 Old 08-30-2010, 09:49 PM
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I never said it wasn't a 2009 model. I was just pointing out that if he finds a good deal on a 2009 model it doesn't mean it has been sitting around in a warehouse for a year or longer. It may have just been made fairly recently.

I knew what I meant but I guess I didn't present it very well.
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post #9178 of 11289 Old 08-31-2010, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kchill View Post

Trust me you want the 73...

Anyone aware of upcoming deals on the 73"? I missed out on the Dell special two weeks ago.

--Dan--

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post #9179 of 11289 Old 08-31-2010, 05:07 PM
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hhgregg Store (1.9 miles)
9132 Taylorsville Road
Jeffersontown, KY 40299
502-495-2999
hhgregg Store (4.8 miles)
4140 Outer Loop Road
Louisville, KY 40219
502-968-6244
hhgregg Store (13.4 miles)
1050 E. Lewis and Clark Parkway
Clarksville, IN 47129
812-282-2999

Go haggle the price...include the stand...they will work with you...not like everyone is knocking down the door on these!
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post #9180 of 11289 Old 08-31-2010, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mln1963 View Post

I never said it wasn't a 2009 model. I was just pointing out that if he finds a good deal on a 2009 model it doesn't mean it has been sitting around in a warehouse for a year or longer. It may have just been made fairly recently.

I knew what I meant but I guess I didn't present it very well.

Back in the day at HP/Compaq we would often do a batch of an out of production model sometimes a year or more after the offical end of the model's normal life. Could be a big customer would order a few thousand to match what they arleady had.

Late production can occur for a number of reason. parts may have been leftover, or some material that was required to finish a batch might have been unavailble stalling production. Let's say for example you had 1000 2009 60" cabinets left when the 2010 launches but you don't have enouogh light engines to finish the 2009 models and make enough 2010s to meet your immediate commitment to you resellers. You don't throw away the old cabinents you wait till you get enough extra light engines and finish the batch. OEMs hate to waste materials.

On the other hand I don't know see why a unit sitting in a box on the shelf makes it any more or less valuable than the latest production of the same model. In general later should be better but you can't really tell.

So one might think the latest production would be better but that is just a possibility, and far from a certainty. The older production could be better. Again the assembly date can be very misleading. I have seen big batches of material sit for a long time waiting on a very minor item, like manuals or read this first kind of paperwork. You just don't know why something is built when it is. And when it is built does not tell you much unless you have the magic decoder ring and access to the bill of materials. Even then slipstreamed production fixes don't alway turn out to be an improvement when the product is in the field for awhile. Engineering may think they have improved or fixed something but in fact the cure ends up worse the original problem.

Just trying to make people think a little deeper about things.

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