2009 Mitsubishi Owners Thread (C9/737/837) - Page 31 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 2Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #901 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 10:32 AM
Advanced Member
 
Bama29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 805
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

Just trying to trigger the "fence sitters" and impulse buyers into action.

It's getting awful hard to keep my balance on the fence I am presently on!
Bama29 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #902 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 10:59 AM
Advanced Member
 
Dalumberjack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 502
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 43
so all you new 737 / 837 owners. Do you think these tv's are close to reproducing the same colors as the samsung LED DLP?

I just ask becasue it seems there are going to be issues with samsung and getting replacement parts and I don't want to give up my big screen for an lcd.

I really like the 82 inch but the 837's seem to look a lot better. Any comments? Maybe they will make an 82 inch in the 837 model?
Dalumberjack is offline  
post #903 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 11:42 AM
Advanced Member
 
Bama29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 805
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalumberjack View Post

so all you new 737 / 837 owners. Do you think these tv's are close to reproducing the same colors as the samsung LED DLP?

I just ask becasue it seems there are going to be issues with samsung and getting replacement parts and I don't want to give up my big screen for an lcd.

I really like the 82 inch but the 837's seem to look a lot better. Any comments? Maybe they will make an 82 inch in the 837 model?

There are several places on the web already accepting Pre-orders for the 82837. Here is one example:

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...ubishi-wd82837
Bama29 is offline  
post #904 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 11:53 AM
Advanced Member
 
Dalumberjack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 502
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Awesome. Good to know they will make it.

Now what about the comparison? My local frys does not carry any 837 or 737 right now (probably have to go to the bigger on farther away) but I want to know how it is to the LED engine.

If its not a night and day difference then I'm all over this TV but if it is I guess I would have to consider a LCD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama29 View Post

There are several places on the web already accepting Pre-orders for the 82837. Here is one example:

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...ubishi-wd82837

Dalumberjack is offline  
post #905 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 12:12 PM
Advanced Member
 
Bama29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 805
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalumberjack View Post

Awesome. Good to know they will make it.

Now what about the comparison? My local frys does not carry any 837 or 737 right now (probably have to go to the bigger on farther away) but I want to know how it is to the LED engine.

If its not a night and day difference then I'm all over this TV but if it is I guess I would have to consider a LCD

I can't help much there. I have seen the 60" 737 in a Best Buy close to a Samsung LED model. They were pretty similar to me, however the source being supplied to both was standard definition DVD. They looked about the same with the sammy having a bit more depth to it. However if you look earlier in the thread you will see that "Happy Nightmares" happens to have a 737 and 837 at his place at the same time right now and is posting comparisons as he can get to them. He is doing a great job and this thread has been bugging him to death about it. I am guilty as charged as far as that goes. I expect him to post more soon and hopefully it might give you a better idea of how the 837 performs...
Bama29 is offline  
post #906 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 12:14 PM
Member
 
acesea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan W View Post

Anyone use this for PC gaming? Can you do 1:1 pixel mapping?

Bump. I am also curious how much overscan there is on the 737 and particularly the 73837.

Thanks.
acesea is offline  
post #907 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 02:02 PM
Member
 
ozuser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi everybody!

I have a few questions:

1) What is "Service only" side input on 737 model? See image below:



837 models have USB port at same place and labeled as "USB"

2) According to spec bulb 180W for all sizes. Is there any difference in Brightness/Contrast in the screen corners between 60 & 65 or 65 & 73 because of this? Not even talking about 82, where the same bulb is.

3) 837 models have Dark Detailer feature, but I couldn't find any options to adjust or turn it off in the menu on the store display. Is it automatic?

4) Is there any advantage of "Perfect Tint"? Couldn't find this option in the menu of 837, the same like on 737.

5) On the Mits site side-by-side comparison lists twice "DeepField imager" feature for 837, like "NEW" and like "Improved". Any thoughts?

Thanks.
ozuser is offline  
post #908 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 02:19 PM
Member
 
lambo172008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
ozuser, i can help with the first two, 1. this and the usb input on the 837 are used for firmware updates, 2. this would be hard unless you had a side by side comparison but a 60 would be a little brighter than a 65 and 65 than a 73, but these sets get plenty bright, especially for the 65, this is the one im getting and have been looking at for a while now. the only other thing that would come to mind is that for the 60 it might be too bright on its highest setting and could save bulb life not having to use it as hard as the larger sizes. hope this helps
lambo172008 is offline  
post #909 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 02:25 PM
Member
 
ozuser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
lambo172008,

Thanks.

Yeah, it looked like USB, but I didn't find explanation in the Owner Guide pdf.

I am suprised there is the same lamp for all models...

Still undecided between 65-737 & 65-837. Price is an issue.
ozuser is offline  
post #910 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 02:36 PM
Member
 
lambo172008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozuser View Post

lambo172008,

Thanks.

Yeah, it looked like USB, but I didn't find explanation in the Owner Guide pdf.

I am suprised there is the same lamp for all models...

Still undecided between 65-737 & 65-837. Price is an issue.

ya the bulb thing is kinda funny, i can understand the 60 and 65 having the same but the 73 and 82, that just doesn't sound right
im in the same boat, as of right now you can get the 837 for 1799 from amazon, and the 737 for 1499, i know the blacks are better, but im trying to figure out if itll be alot better or something you would only notice side by side. one thing i like about the 837 are the calibration modes. without going into the service menu and messing stuff up. but that extra 300 could be a new blu-ray player
lambo172008 is offline  
post #911 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 02:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tboo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,222
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Is there any easy way to switch picture settings for each input type if Im only using one input? I have everything going into my Onkyo 906 with one HDMI cable going to my 837. I like to use different settings for cable, bluray..etc.
tboo is offline  
post #912 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 02:50 PM
Member
 
joez7700's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by lambo172008 View Post

ya the bulb thing is kinda funny, i can understand the 60 and 65 having the same but the 73 and 82, that just doesn't sound right
im in the same boat, as of right now you can get the 837 for 1799 from amazon, and the 737 for 1499, i know the blacks are better, but im trying to figure out if itll be alot better or something you would only notice side by side. one thing i like about the 837 are the calibration modes. without going into the service menu and messing stuff up. but that extra 300 could be a new blu-ray player

I've got the WD-73737 It puts out a TON of light. I had to set it to the Natural setting. Out of the box it was way to bright. As for the blacks I have never seen an 837 in person. I set my TV up with the Video Essentials Blu-Ray and I get a very good black level with plenty of shadow detail.

Joe
joez7700 is offline  
post #913 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 02:55 PM
Member
 
lambo172008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Joe -

Great to hear, ya i havent seen the 73 so i couldnt make to much of a comment on the bulb, but it sounds like you like so thats great. im happy that you like the 737 and i think that might be the way i go, im sure the blacks will be great and i think the only way you would be able to know if the 837 is better is doing a side by side in front of your eyes, not pics and for most of us that cant happen. so congrats on the TV

- John
lambo172008 is offline  
post #914 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 02:56 PM
Member
 
joez7700's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tboo View Post

Is there any easy way to switch picture settings for each input type if Im only using one input? I have everything going into my Onkyo 906 with one HDMI cable going to my 837. I like to use different settings for cable, bluray..etc.

I think that there is only 1 picture seeting for each input. I have all my devices going through an Onkyo 905 with an HDMI cable to my WD-73737. I don't know if the 837 can do this either.

Joe
joez7700 is offline  
post #915 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 03:02 PM
Member
 
lambo172008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I think that there is only 1 picture seeting for each input. I have all my devices going through an Onkyo 905 with an HDMI cable to my WD-73737. I don't know if the 837 can do this either.

This is correct, for both models. i would be kind of nice tho for those of us using a reciever that passes a single hdmi, because i like videogames a little more saturated then my blu-rays, maybe in next years models this will be a feature
lambo172008 is offline  
post #916 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 03:15 PM
Advanced Member
 
happy nightmares's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 862
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hello everyone.

I'm afraid I might have given some people the wrong impression, or discouraged some potential 737 buyers, and it's making me feel bad, so I want to clarify a couple things, and try to explain my opinion more clearly.

First of all, the black levels on the 737 do not suck, and none of the 737/837 comparison is intended to be a knock against it. I think dollar-for-dollar the 737 is the best bargain in TVs anywhere. Whenever I look at this 65737 and think about getting 65 inches of great quality display for only $1300, it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside. I have a $3,000 TV in the next room that despite it's excellent performance, does not give me that same feeling. Maybe it's because I'm a cheapskate at heart, but it's true. And getting a great *deal* makes getting a new TV even better!

When I first got the 737, I was impressed overall. Still am. Amazing value.

However, from a pure performance standpoint... the ONE area which left me wanting more... was the black levels.

But you have to keep in mind -- I'm the current owner of 2 Panasonic Plasmas, a Samsung A950 LED local-dimming, and recently took the Sony XBR8 local-dimming for a test drive... so I'm coming fresh off some of the best black levels in the industry. The Mitsubishi DLPs had some tough acts to follow.

In that regard, the 837 has filled the gap by providing deeper black levels. From the content itself, to the black bars in letterbox, to the black-out and fade screens of movie endings and credits. I'm not a pro, and I have no measuring equipment, but I would say it's on par with my '08 Panny plasma. Which is great! And it's not just dark, but the level of detail is excellent. In both movies and video games I can see a real difference in the dark scenes, or dark sections of the map on the 837. And I have not seen ANY negative side effects of the iris. Not once have I ever felt like anything looked or behaved unnatural.

However, for the majority of viewing it doesn't seem to make a difference. That's important to note, and good news for 737 owners because they won't feel like their always missing something. Most of the time, the two models look the same.

But when it does make a difference, it's really nice! Good news for 837 owners, because the extra money spent has a payoff they can see with their own eyes.

Given a choice, price no object, I think everyone would choose the iris. Why not. I can't find anything negative to say about it. Except the extra cost. The 737 is such a fantastic bargain, such amazing bang-for-buck... I'm not sure the extra performance of the 837 can match the extra cost between the 2 models, but that's a whole different story.

These are both great TVs, and there's plenty to feel good about for owners of each.

One day at a time...
happy nightmares is offline  
post #917 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 03:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tboo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,222
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by lambo172008 View Post

I think that there is only 1 picture seeting for each input. I have all my devices going through an Onkyo 905 with an HDMI cable to my WD-73737. I don't know if the 837 can do this either.

This is correct, for both models. i would be kind of nice tho for those of us using a reciever that passes a single hdmi, because i like videogames a little more saturated then my blu-rays, maybe in next years models this will be a feature

I ask because when I was using the 737 before I exchanged for the 837, it detected a different device when I went to my bd player from my cable box. I was using a different receiver(pioneer sc-07 along with a pioneer bd player). Now Im using an Onkyo 906 with the pioneer bd player. This was all using one HDMI cable.
tboo is offline  
post #918 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 03:37 PM
Member
 
lambo172008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
happy nightmares - thanks for your input, its tough to do what your doing, but dont worry your doing a great job so from what i read, since i will be using this tv most for video games, your saying that this is where the 837 has the value. this is one area that makes me mad with my crt, there is to much black crush and it gets too dark and a lot of the detail is taken away.
lambo172008 is offline  
post #919 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 04:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dreaux's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 1,287
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Got my 73837 delivered today and I am very pleased with the PQ (and the size). Spent half the day with my Blue-ray HD DVE Hd basics and did a minor calibration but after I was done the settings were almost identical to the 'out of the box' Brilliant mode. Maybe mine was set different than others but it looked pretty good with the factory settings. Just had to reduce the sharpness, contrast and color.
I had the Panasonic Viera TH-65PZ850U 65" 1080p Plasma HDTV and I was not as happy with it as I am with the 73837, and the black level are quite comparable to the Panny blacks.
I took a few pics of the set. Non of these has been altered in any way.
I know you can't tell much from pictures of a set but they are fun to look at.
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL
dreaux is offline  
post #920 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 05:19 PM
Advanced Member
 
Bama29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 805
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreaux View Post

Got my 73837 delivered today and I am very pleased with the PQ (and the size). Spent half the day with my Blue-ray HD DVE Hd basics and did a minor calibration but after I was done the settings were almost identical to the 'out of the box' Brilliant mode. Maybe mine was set different than others but it looked pretty good with the factory settings. Just had to reduce the sharpness, contrast and color.
I had the Panasonic Viera TH-65PZ850U 65" 1080p Plasma HDTV and I was not as happy with it as I am with the 73837, and the black level are quite comparable to the Panny blacks.
I took a few pics of the set. Non of these has been altered in any way.
I know you can't tell much from pictures of a set but they are fun to look at.

Great shots. That picture is amazing!
Bama29 is offline  
post #921 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 05:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
georule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1,251
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreaux View Post

Got my 73837 delivered today and I am very pleased with the PQ (and the size). Spent half the day with my Blue-ray HD DVE Hd basics and did a minor calibration but after I was done the settings were almost identical to the 'out of the box' Brilliant mode. Maybe mine was set different than others but it looked pretty good with the factory settings. Just had to reduce the sharpness, contrast and color.
I had the Panasonic Viera TH-65PZ850U 65" 1080p Plasma HDTV and I was not as happy with it as I am with the 73837, and the black level are quite comparable to the Panny blacks.
I took a few pics of the set. Non of these has been altered in any way.
I know you can't tell much from pictures of a set but they are fun to look at.

Too much red in the skin tone for my tastes on brilliant/high, but when you shell out for a 73837, the important thing is you are a happy camper --and you seem to be. Good on you! Happy is the important thing --settings can be changed any old time! And some lovely pics there nonetheless.
georule is offline  
post #922 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 06:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
georule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1,251
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hey, I just realized we scored two more 837's that were deemed "good" by their owners on the first try! That's good! The odds are improving.

Recently I told someone on another thread that right now I couldn't recommend buying an 837 online (rather than bricks and mortar store) because of the extra pain associated with replacing an online buy and the early track record of 837s QA. I'd love to be able to withdraw that caveat. A few more "good" 837s on the first try and I will.

Come to think of it, Happy got a good one on the first try, even tho it was a floor model, right? So that's four of them.
georule is offline  
post #923 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 06:43 PM
Advanced Member
 
happy nightmares's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 862
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hey Guys, I'm still at work and very busy. I will post again later. Just a quick message...

Make sure when you try different picture modes (Natural, Bright, Brilliant, Game)... that you also try switching the Color Temp (Low, High) within each mode. Try each mode both ways. No matter what your preferences, there's bound to be a combination of the two which suits your taste.

However, I'm pretty sure the whole TV becomes radioactive and glows in the dark after using the Brilliant mode for any length of time. Be careful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by georule View Post

Come to think of it, Happy got a good one on the first try, even tho it was a floor model, right? So that's four of them.

Actually the floor model 837's geometry issues were significant enough that the top letterbox bar was crooked (enough that it bothered me), so I swapped it for another. The replacement 837 (new in box) is better, about the same as the 737... with minor bowing/dipping visible on a few menu screens, or grids with long horizontal bars, but no issues viewable during normal content viewing. From what we've seen reported so far, that appears to be normal. Par for the course.

As long as a person can avoid obsessing over a few slightly crooked lines in large menu screens or full-screen guides, it shouldn't be a problem. I'm struggling with it a little bit myself, to be completely honest. But it's my only real complaint about these sets, and it's a minor one.

One day at a time...
happy nightmares is offline  
post #924 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 07:14 PM
Senior Member
 
joikd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I was thinking about Dark Detailer, and something is not making sense to me. If you turn down Brightness all the way on both a 737 & 837, then display a pure black image, they should look the same. Correct? So, when comparing the two with brightness calibrated equally, and with a darkish image displayed, if the Dark Detailer has "better" blacks, it must be losing dark detail since it's kind of automatically (but temporarily) lowering brightness. Is that how it works? I thought it would only be screwing with gamma on one end, but, if what I said is really happening, then it really messes with it all the way up until the point where it doesn't kick in. Can someone please explain this to me?
joikd is offline  
post #925 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 07:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tboo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,222
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
After having a 737 for a week & now having the 837, I can say dark detailer makes a HUGE difference. The blacks on my 837 are an inky black & are just as good as the blacks on my Panasonic PZ85U. I am so glad I upgraded to the 837. I am now happy!
tboo is offline  
post #926 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 07:59 PM
Member
 
avlogic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm reading a lot of about black detail on the 737's and 837's. A lot of you are saying that the Dark Detailer makes a big difference. I was wondering if the Dark Detailer has more of an effect on larger screen sizes. I have the WD-60737 and I'm very pleased with the black levels. But since there isn't a 60' 837 model, it has me thinking that the Dark Detailer benefits the larger screens.
avlogic is offline  
post #927 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 09:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dreaux's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 1,287
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by tboo View Post

After having a 737 for a week & now having the 837, I can say dark detailer makes a HUGE difference. The blacks on my 837 are an inky black & are just as good as the blacks on my Panasonic PZ85U. I am so glad I upgraded to the 837. I am now happy!

Watched my first Blu-ray tonight (very impressive) on my 837 and the blacks are equal to or better than the Panasonic 850U plasma I had with the detail being even better than the Panasonic PQ. And for 2k less...I too am happy.
dreaux is offline  
post #928 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 09:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Darin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 5,999
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by joikd View Post

I was thinking about Dark Detailer, and something is not making sense to me. If you turn down Brightness all the way on both a 737 & 837, then display a pure black image, they should look the same. Correct?

No, displaying a pure black image is when they would look the most different, regardless of the brightness setting. If you are displaying a pure black image, the DMD mirrors would be "off". So the only light escaping to the screen would be undesirable "leaked" light due to reflections and the DMD/light absorber not being able to completely absorb ALL the light. How much undesirable light gets reflected is a sole function of how much light is being beamed onto the DMD (since everything else is equal). A bulb with an iris closed as far as it will close will put out much less light than one without. Conversely, a pure white image with the contrast turned all the way up, both an 837 and 737 should look the same.

Quote:


So, when comparing the two with brightness calibrated equally, and with a darkish image displayed, if the Dark Detailer has "better" blacks, it must be losing dark detail since it's kind of automatically (but temporarily) lowering brightness.

No, theoretically the Dark Detailer equipped set should have better dark scene detail, for two reasons: First, a DLP provides varying amounts of light by pulsing the mirrors "on" or "off" for varying amounts of time. Very dark would be the mirrors pulsed on for very short periods relative to the off time, and vice verse for brighter levels of light. Being a digital device, there's not going to be an infinite range of on vs. off times... there are most likely x number of steps of brightness from full black to full white. If you have a very dark scene, all the content will be using the lower range of "steps" (so fewer "shades of gray" within that scene). BUT, if you dynamically lower the output of the light source (close the iris), you can theoretically use all the steps of brightness in that same scene, because "full brightness" from the DMDs point of view (mirrors "on" virtually all the time) equates the brightest shade in that scene. In other words, you get greater resolution of "shades of gray" in a dark scene, because you are resetting the brightest "step" to equal the brightest pixel in that scene.

But more importantly, you get better black level detail because you get less "unwanted" light washing out the darkest part of the scene. Essentially, with an adjustable output light source, you are dynamically changing the black level "noise floor". If you don't have any parts of the picture that need full brightness, the light output can be turned down, making the blacks blacker, and therefore making subtle differences in the darkest shades more discernible.

BUT, you have to remember that Dark Detailer is limited by the brightest pixels in the scene. The iris still has to be open enough to illuminate the brightest pixels to the proper levels. It will provide the most benefit in scenes where everything on screen at that moment is fairly dark. A 737 and 837 will have the same ANSI contrast ratio... which is the ratio of the blackest black and whitest white that can be displayed by a contrast test pattern that has both black and white in it, because the iris will have to be completely open due to the white content. But an 837 will have better overall contrast ratio measured from how dark a completely black frame is compared to a completely white frame, since the whites will be the same (iris completely open on the 837, and non-existent on the 737), but the black will be blacker on the 837 due to the iris closing down.

My dual Rythmik Servo sub project (actually quad now, need to update page)
HDM format neutral thanks to the pricing wars of the '07 xmas shopping season :)
Darin is offline  
post #929 of 11280 Old 07-03-2009, 10:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
georule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1,251
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by avlogic View Post

I'm reading a lot of about black detail on the 737's and 837's. A lot of you are saying that the Dark Detailer makes a big difference. I was wondering if the Dark Detailer has more of an effect on larger screen sizes. I have the WD-60737 and I'm very pleased with the black levels. But since there isn't a 60' 837 model, it has me thinking that the Dark Detailer benefits the larger screens.

I wouldn't make that assumption. I think competition comes in there too. You can find 60" plasmas; finding a 65"+ plasma or LCD is a much more expensive proposition. The 837s cost significantly more than the 737s. So it makes sense to me for them to start with the 65" model on the 837s as it maintains the price/performance advantage vs the competition that they are likely after.

I'm not saying I can prove you're wrong. I'm saying I'm not willing to say you're right.
georule is offline  
post #930 of 11280 Old 07-04-2009, 12:31 AM
Member
 
Martinefski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by georule View Post

Hey, I just realized we scored two more 837's that were deemed "good" by their owners on the first try! That's good! The odds are improving.

Recently I told someone on another thread that right now I couldn't recommend buying an 837 online (rather than bricks and mortar store) because of the extra pain associated with replacing an online buy and the early track record of 837s QA. I'd love to be able to withdraw that caveat. A few more "good" 837s on the first try and I will.

Come to think of it, Happy got a good one on the first try, even tho it was a floor model, right? So that's four of them.

You can add me to that list as well. Actually I have almost no geometry issues at all with my WD 73837. If it was not for for this board and me specifically looking for them I don't think I would have ever seen them, actually they are so slight, sometimes I think my brian is just playing tricks on me.

I really love this TV! I am still in shock I only paid $1999.99 without having to haggle.
Martinefski is offline  
Reply Rear Projection Units

Tags
Mitsubishi

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off