2009 Mitsubishi Owners Thread (C9/737/837) - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 11280 Old 05-27-2009, 12:44 PM
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Is there a PerfectTint equivalent in the service menu of the 737?
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post #92 of 11280 Old 05-27-2009, 12:52 PM
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Does anyone notice jumping colors on HD channels? I have time warner and the 60737 and I have been noticing jumping colors for awhile now, but this never happens on blue-ray, dvd's or the PS3 so i'm thinking its just the calibration of the cable channels. I have almost the same exact picture settings as rotweiler.... any idea's?

60737
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post #93 of 11280 Old 05-27-2009, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeOfPrunes View Post

I dont think my prior question was stated properly.. I have all my components routed through an HDMI switching receiver. Therefore just 1 HDMI input from the receiver to the TV. So what's the better method to calibrate? Use blu-ray or the Hdnet test pattern? If I calibrate to one how will that impact the other? Is the Eye One LT sensor any good?

Keep in mind that, unlike with Blu-ray, with the satellite receiver, you're not getting better audio by running the HDMI through your receiver. Since DirecTV is transmitting Dolby Digital, you'll get the same audio quality using a coax or optical cable as you do with the HDMI.

So, if you want to calibrate for both Blu-ray and Satellite, you can run the HDMI directly to the TV from the sat receiver and not worry about sharing a common HDMI input between the Blu-ray and satellite sources.
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post #94 of 11280 Old 05-27-2009, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newmason View Post

Does anyone notice jumping colors on HD channels? I have time warner and the 60737 and I have been noticing jumping colors for awhile now, but this never happens on blue-ray, dvd's or the PS3 so i'm thinking its just the calibration of the cable channels. I have almost the same exact picture settings as rotweiler.... any idea's?

Can you use a few more words to describe what you mean and what specific content you're seeing it on? Have you tried turning off Deepfield Imager to see if that does anything? It could be compression by the cable cos too, I suppose, depending on exactly what you're talking about.

I talked about a weird one I saw upstream, but the next time I see it I'm going to hit the record button on my HD DVR and then do some experimenting with settings in the TV to see if it has any impact.
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post #95 of 11280 Old 05-27-2009, 06:39 PM
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Wel if you watching just HD content off the cable the logo's color will jump along with certain items, say a red shirt and a blue car, they will sort of jump in and out of there edges, i guess its the best I can describe it as. Its almost like watching the items move in and out of there shape, color wise. Not physically just seeing the color jump up and back to where it was over and over. It doesnt do it for everything, just some HD content which makes me believe its the cable,

60737
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post #96 of 11280 Old 05-27-2009, 06:45 PM
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Well, I think you have to start with turning off all the special image processing features on the TV and see if it is still happening. I haven't seen anything like that. I have seen some popping of colors I think could be contrast related in the presence of strong TV lighting --and dynamic contrast by screen region is supposed to be what Deepfield Imaging does, so I'm suspicious that might be the cause.
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post #97 of 11280 Old 05-27-2009, 07:30 PM
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Fired up the 73737 this weekend. Needless to say I am impressed. No way you can match the pure value of this set...and the 73" experience is awesome. Surprisingly, non HD TV is very watchable. HDTV is excellent, in particular ESPN / sports channels. Color realism seems to be pretty close to optimal to my eyes. No wierd jumping or other screen door effects that I can notice in intial close watching. Have been running with Smooth 120 Hz, Deep Field Imager, and SharpEdge on.

More serious viewing to go...and I need to buy a Blue-ray player. Basically, my first impressions are all very good to excellent. Can't match the color depth of a plasma, but I like the picture better than my Samsung LCD. So nothing annoying at all... except the remote, which is so bad it is a joke. I like the fact that I started watching and got into the programming without any obvious or back of the brain "something is not quite right" thoughts. There is alot right with this set.
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post #98 of 11280 Old 05-27-2009, 07:33 PM
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Ill run back out there and fire the tv back up and see what it does. Im going to try turning off all the settings and starting over with the on off settings that are availible, and see what that does. Its more of a jumping of colors you could say

60737
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post #99 of 11280 Old 05-27-2009, 07:34 PM
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Yeah, I've been very impressed with the quality of digital SD on this set (remembering I'm coming from two HD sets which are respectively 3 and 4 years old). At times it has felt like if it wasn't 4:3 I wouldn't have known it was SD. Not always, but at times. . .
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post #100 of 11280 Old 05-27-2009, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joikd View Post

Is there a PerfectTint equivalent in the service menu of the 737?

Assuming they didn't make any major changes to the SM, yes. Be very careful in the SM and always write down the defaults as you can easily make things worse instead of better. Also be aware that when going in and out of the SM, the color and gray values will change. For example, if you measure gray scale, primaries, and secondaries in the SM and get them spot on and then exit the menu and measure again, the values change. It takes quite a while to do a thorough calibration on Mitsi sets due to this fact.
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post #101 of 11280 Old 05-27-2009, 09:51 PM
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Anyone know yet if the proper way to turn off keystone correction with the 73737 is to hit the 0 key in the service menu and select Manual alignment?

On the 73736 I had for a few weeks, 0 in the service menu brought up the same type of menu, but the option was actually called Keystone Correction.
Everyone said without turning off Keystone Correction, the television wouldn't be displaying true 1080p at 1:1 pixel mapping. Both the 73736 and 73737 fail the 1:1 test on the Blu-ray DVE with default settings.

The method I described seemed to fix the 1:1 pixel test on the DVE Blu-ray like the Keystone option did on the 73736, but I'm not as knowledgable on this stuff as the other folks on here.

Any help would be appreciated.

The service menu is tiny now in comparison to the options on the 736's.

I'm using the advanced calibration picture mode, and I'm very happy with the picture. I just wish I knew exactly how to use the Red High, Red Low settings...etc.


Another funny thing about this compared to the 736. The 73736 clipped below black information when using a test Pluge. The Samsung HL67A650 did not...below black could be seen when maxing contrast/brigtness settings. The 73737 also shows below black information...strange. Not sure why the 73736 clipped it, but I'm glad the 73737 doesn't clip it. Not sure if its a direct result, but dark night demonstration scenes on the DVE Blu-ray that had noise in the night sky on the 736 and the Sammy are almost completely absent of noise on the 73737. (night scenes in Times Square, the night bridge shot, and the fountain at night look great). Dark gaming like Call of Duty 4 on Xbox 360 was very difficult to see on the Sammy...its incredible on the 737. I can see a person that's a mile away on the map because the PQ is so good and on a 73" screen, what would be a 1/2 inch dark spot on a 19" monitor is a 7.5 inch tall enemy.
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post #102 of 11280 Old 05-27-2009, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholc2 View Post

Assuming they didn't make any major changes to the SM, yes. Be very careful in the SM and always write down the defaults as you can easily make things worse instead of better. Also be aware that when going in and out of the SM, the color and gray values will change. For example, if you measure gray scale, primaries, and secondaries in the SM and get them spot on and then exit the menu and measure again, the values change. It takes quite a while to do a thorough calibration on Mitsi sets due to this fact.

I could be wrong, but I think they improved this on the 737's. If you select the advanced picture mode, you can adjust a long list of options without entering the SM. When you do enter the SM, it only has about 8 options (guessing, but it was a very small number now). I don't think it lost my setting in the ADV picture mode when I exited. I could be wrong. But you are correct that on the 736, everything went back to default in the main settings everytime I exited the SM.
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post #103 of 11280 Old 05-28-2009, 08:22 AM
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Just got a 60737 and am trying to get my Harmony to get to HDMI2. The device buttons on the Harmony for the TV show discrete HDMI1, HDMI2, HDMI3, Input1, Input2, and Input3, though HDMI2 and HDMI3 don't seem to do anything. Does anyone have a solution for this? Thanks in advance.
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post #104 of 11280 Old 05-28-2009, 10:28 AM
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What's the deal with the 837s? Why aren't they out yet? Mits isn't even talking about them on their website. Nothing since the April announcement of the new models.

Is Dark Detailer (the big PQ add for 837) really all that helpful with blacks?
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post #105 of 11280 Old 05-28-2009, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georule View Post

What's the deal with the 837s? Why aren't they out yet? Mits isn't even talking about them on their website. Nothing since the April announcement of the new models.

Is Dark Detailer (the big PQ add for 837) really all that helpful with blacks?

I'm waiting to see the 837's, too. A few sites have them available for pre-order. My understanding is that Dark Detailer is actually a negative since it alters gamma--I think this would only matter if you are going to actually calibrate gamma, though (which, I plan on doing). I haven't yet heard anything that the 837 has over the 737 that I actually want, so I may just end up with an 737 in the end.
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post #106 of 11280 Old 05-28-2009, 12:46 PM
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Well, they are supposed to include an ISF calibration menu too --dunno if that floats your boat or not, or whether it might even give you any added control over what Dark Detailer does.

I'm certainly happy with my 60737. . . but I also have an eye on our (4.5 yr old) 62725 that is going to need replacing one of these days, and that's the room where a 73" would work really well. So I'm just interested in some due diligence on the 837s "just in case" I'm suddenly needing to make a choice between the 73737 or 73837.
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post #107 of 11280 Old 05-28-2009, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joikd View Post

I'm waiting to see the 837's, too. A few sites have them available for pre-order. My understanding is that Dark Detailer is actually a negative since it alters gamma--I think this would only matter if you are going to actually calibrate gamma, though (which, I plan on doing). I haven't yet heard anything that the 837 has over the 737 that I actually want, so I may just end up with an 737 in the end.

I believe the Diamond series has a feature where the iris actually changes so the set can alter the amount of light which is key for proper picture as scenes change from light to dark, but will have to check to find a reference to this. I believe that is one item that distinguishes 837 from 737?
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post #108 of 11280 Old 05-28-2009, 02:01 PM
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Yeah, that iris has been given the marketing name "Dark Detailer" by Mits --that's what we are talking about. Apparently some people think previous implementations mess up gamma --dunno if that's inherent to the concept, or something they could "improve" for 837 vs previous gens. Apparently it's been around since the 2005 high-end models, tho I don't know if it has been improved along the way. My 2004 doesn't have it, and my new 737 doesn't have it either, so I have no basis to comment. . . but I'd love to hear some informed opinions on the matter.
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post #109 of 11280 Old 05-28-2009, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vannausj View Post

I believe the Diamond series has a feature where the iris actually changes so the set can alter the amount of light which is key for proper picture as scenes change from light to dark, but will have to check to find a reference to this. I believe that is one item that distinguishes 837 from 737?

That's the Dark Detailer. But, from my understanding, if you calibrate your gamma, it will be negatively affected by this "feature". Previous models did not allow for this to be turned off. Hopefully, it will be defeatable in the 837's.

Edit: me = slow typist (georule beat me to it)
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post #110 of 11280 Old 05-28-2009, 02:22 PM
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The fact that they are pimping an "ISF certified" calibration menu with the 837s makes me think that isn't out of the question. . .
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post #111 of 11280 Old 05-29-2009, 09:17 AM
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Are any of you owners singing "Some where over the rainbow?" (seeing rainbows) I have a Sony 60XBR2 set. Though I am not experiencing any OB problems I am looking to the future because I won't be able to do 3D with the 60hz XBR2. I've never seen rainbows at the stores or at someone's home but I am concerned about it.
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post #112 of 11280 Old 05-29-2009, 10:18 AM
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No rainbows on my WD-73737.

Still no answers on the keystone correction?

I think I successful turned it off, but I'd be more confident if someone could confirm.

I finally have settings I'm really happy with in a standard setting:

Natural Picture Mode
Low Color Temp
Deep Field Off
Super Resolution Off
Sharp Edge Off
Video Noise Off
Contrast 55
Brightness 31
Color 31
Tint 31
Sharpness 31

Amazingly, this is pretty close to default on most settings, and it does great on all the test patterns in the DVE Blu-ray. It actually beats my attempt at an ADV setting. Only green filter isn't perfect, but I see no problems with green on anything. It looks great...and I can say for sure it is a much better picture than both the Samsung HL67A750 and the Mitsubishi WD-73736 I had. And it was as close to standard out of the box as the Sammy was...and took a fraction of the time to adjust as the 73736.
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post #113 of 11280 Old 05-29-2009, 10:38 AM
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I think the only way to get 1:1 pixel mapping is with the keystone correction turned off. Have you run a 1:1 pixel test pattern?
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post #114 of 11280 Old 05-29-2009, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joikd View Post

I think the only way to get 1:1 pixel mapping is with the keystone correction turned off. Have you run a 1:1 pixel test pattern?

Yes I have run the pattern. It failed it initially, like the 73736 did.

So I went into the Service Menu and hit 0 (that how you got to the Keystone Correction in the 73736)

There wasn't an option called Keystone anymore, so I selected manual alignment or geometry...something to that effect.

Once I did that, the TV passed the 1:1 pixel test pattern, like the 73736 did after turning off Keystone.

So I guess the question is whether or not Mitsubishi just renamed the option, and I did it properly without messing with something I shouldn't have?
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post #115 of 11280 Old 05-29-2009, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbug View Post

Are any of you owners singing "Some where over the rainbow?" (seeing rainbows) I have a Sony 60XBR2 set. Though I am not experiencing any OB problems I am looking to the future because I won't be able to do 3D with the 60hz XBR2. I've never seen rainbows at the stores or at someone's home but I am concerned about it.

We have both a WD-62725 (1st gen Mits DLP) and a new WD-60737. I've never seen the RBE on either of them.

However, my wife is a 20+ year broadcast television engineer at multiple network affiliates in two different top 20 markets. What she told me when looking at the new one was "You know, with our old one I had to train my eye to not see the Rainbow. With this one I have to look hard for it to see it at all."

So, that's the reports from one person who isn't RBE sensitive at all and another who is very RBE sensitive.
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post #116 of 11280 Old 05-29-2009, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georule View Post

We have both a WD-62725 (1st gen Mits DLP) and a new WD-60737. I've never seen the RBE on either of them.

However, my wife is a 20+ year broadcast television engineer at multiple network affiliates in two different top 20 markets. What she told me when looking at the new one was "You know, with our old one I had to train my eye to not see the Rainbow. With this one I have to look hard for it to see it at all."

So, that's the reports from one person who isn't RBE sensitive at all and another who is very RBE sensitive.

That's good news. That's also good that your wife doesn't see them now. She can enjoy a movie without being bothered by it.
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post #117 of 11280 Old 05-29-2009, 09:20 PM
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There are advantages to having one's wife be a TV engineer. That WD-60725 was my Christmas present in 2004, and she helped pick it out. She loved the large screen and relatively small size (you should have seen the behemoth 55" Mits 1081i CRT RPTV --my birthday present in 2001-- it replaced!) enough to ignore the RBE and figure out how to "not see it" most of the time. How does she do that? Darned if I know.

But I'm pretty sure when that WD-62725 finally gives up the ghost (and at 4.5 years I'm expecting that to be not too far off), it will likely be replaced by a WD-73xxx in our living room. My new WD-60737 is actually my "office" (/family room) TV, replacing a 3 yr old 42" Sony 720p LCD that went to a niece as a college grad present.

I like being married to a TV engineer.
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post #118 of 11280 Old 05-30-2009, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georule View Post

What's the deal with the 837s? Why aren't they out yet? Mits isn't even talking about them on their website. Nothing since the April announcement of the new models.

Is Dark Detailer (the big PQ add for 837) really all that helpful with blacks?

I've got a WD82837 on order and was recently told by my dealer he still expects it between the middle to end of June. We'll see.
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post #119 of 11280 Old 05-30-2009, 09:51 AM
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i can't imagine seeing an 82" dlp in person. i'm sure it would fit between my towers since the space is 96" but at 9 feet it would be monstrous. can't imagine the sd channels on satellite.

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post #120 of 11280 Old 05-30-2009, 10:11 AM
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I have a feeling the 82" is going to be just a little too big for the spot we have, but I'll be looking foward to the reviews and getting my tape measure out. The weight is interesting on that one --it's pretty significantly heavier. Might just require a heavier frame to hold the screen.
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