2009 Mitsubishi Owners Thread (C9/737/837) - Page 40 - AVS Forum
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post #1171 of 11274 Old 07-12-2009, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VegasRph View Post


WD83837 - 83" TV that ONLY comes 837 - Diamond Series.

.

Just to make a quick correction, the 82" model comes in both 737 and 837 flavors.
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post #1172 of 11274 Old 07-12-2009, 03:43 PM
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And, they no longer call their top of the line lamp-based units (837 in this case) the "Diamond" series. They only use the model # now.

One day at a time...
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post #1173 of 11274 Old 07-12-2009, 04:31 PM
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(update)

Thanks to those who have been trying to help me with this problem.

Like the manual says.....a reset is done by holding down the tv's power button for 10 seconds.....I called Mits and they said a "hard reset" is done by pressing MENU+123

Here is what's happening:

I have my PS3 hooked into the tv with HDMI and also a Samsung DVD player hooked into the tv with HDMI. Things have been working fine until last week when I woke up and tried to play PS3...and the blue screen on the tv came on. I could NOT get the PS3 OR the Samsung to work.....so I would do a reset on the tv...and turn on the tv....and then re-hook up everything and the tv auto-detected both the PS3 and the Samsung player....and all worked fine.....until the next day......when I turn on the tv....this same cycle has been happening now all week. I have called and talked to Mits and they can't help me because....they tell me to keep doing a tv reset....then once it works....they say, "Okay, I'm glad it's working now."......but then the next day it stops recognizing the PS3 and Samsung player??????

Anyone else having this problem or know how to fix it?

THANKS!!!
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post #1174 of 11274 Old 07-12-2009, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy nightmares View Post

1) I do believe auto/factory geometry correction is ON by default.

2) When I do the procedure to enter SM and disable auto/factory geometry (*or enable 'manual' geometry controls) the geo issues get worse, with the bowing and/or rising-or-dipping becoming more noticeable in some areas. This would seem to confirm #1.

3) *This is where my confusion comes in... The difference between just turning 'off' auto/factory correction, and turning 'on' manual correction... because the procedure to turn off auto/factory geo lands you in the manual geo controls menu. I'm not clear on how to exit manual geo without activating it.

Make sense?

Happy, I don't think there is an auto gemoetry, per se. If there was, you would see an option to turn it off and on. Manual Geo just lets you make adjustments away from the factory settings. Your only other option is to restore factory, not enable "auto" mode. Auto mode would indicate that it actively adjusts geometry, and I don't that's happening. Once it's set, it's set.

But I am definately no expert so I could be wrong.
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post #1175 of 11274 Old 07-12-2009, 04:44 PM
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The 123 method is what MITS had me do when I called.
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post #1176 of 11274 Old 07-12-2009, 05:04 PM
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I just got the 73837 and have unsuccessfully searched on the forums for how to setting the night/day configuration. Nothing is mentioned in the accompanied manual.

Can anyone elaborate?

Thanks.
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post #1177 of 11274 Old 07-12-2009, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinefski View Post

Then I am really at a loss because there is no way that TV has a better PQ then then the 73837. Actually the TV I had before the 65833 was the WS 65819 and the PQ moving from the 65819 to the 65833 was a huge improvement even then.

If that 65813 is a Diamond CRT-RPTV then it does have a better picture than a DLP. Mits didn't stop making them because they weren't great. People just didn't want a "big" TV anymore.
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post #1178 of 11274 Old 07-12-2009, 05:14 PM
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Also, I've been adjusting the manual geometry to get a sense of the overscan. I've got a source signal that when input through hdmi4 appears to have several pixels in height and width not present when displayed. To be clear, I am not referring to overscan which are pixels that are displayed by the engine and present off the flat screen. However, my circumstance is when the geometry and overscan is retarded to the extent that for example the bottom left corner is pulled several inches towards up and right yet the displayed signal exhibits lost periphery pixel lines.

Why does the 837 not passthrough all 1920x1080 of the source?
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post #1179 of 11274 Old 07-12-2009, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acesea View Post

Why does the 837 not passthrough all 1920x1080 of the source?

If you turn off geometry correction, it will render all 1920x1080 pixels. It's just that some of them will not be visible because they will be outside the screen area. That is simply the nature of rear projection. They can't make geometry perfect, so they sacrifice some around the edges to keep the imperfection less visible. If you try to correct this electornically, you won't get full 1920x1080 resolution, because of the reduction required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by illuvial View Post

Happy, I don't think there is an auto gemoetry, per se..... Auto mode would indicate that it actively adjusts geometry, and I don't that's happening. Once it's set, it's set.

Correct, geometry is either enabled, using either factory or user settings to manipulate the shape of the image being projected, or it is disabled. Geometry correction is essentially just like using photoshop to "warp" an image in photoshop. And once that image is manipulated, it is slightly degraded, because not all the image pixels fall precisely where the physical pixels in the imager are. So interpolation must be used.

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post #1180 of 11274 Old 07-12-2009, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post

If that 65813 is a Diamond CRT-RPTV then it does have a better picture than a DLP. Mits didn't stop making them because they weren't great. People just didn't want a "big" TV anymore.

Well my old Ws 65819 was a Diamond as well and I can say for a fact the two Dlp's that I have owned the 65833 and the 73837 have by far the better PQ of the 3 TV's.
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post #1181 of 11274 Old 07-12-2009, 06:52 PM
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It is not that big of a deal does anyone know if mitsubishi dropped the diamond series name? because about a month or so ago their site referred to the 837 line as medallian series and know medallian name is gone and the site refers to the 837's a s home theater tv's
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post #1182 of 11274 Old 07-12-2009, 07:23 PM
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The speculation is they are reserving the Diamond name for the LaserVue's going forward, but there has been some "lag" in that across the dealers and salesman who tend to still apply it to the 837s.
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post #1183 of 11274 Old 07-12-2009, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acesea View Post

I just got the 73837 and have unsuccessfully search for how to setting the night/day settings. Nothing is mentioned in the accompanied manual. I've got a hunch that the adv1 and adv2 have something to do with this but am completely ignorant.

Can anyone drop me some clues?

The room the 837 is in has several windows and gets lots of light seepage during the day. I would like to take advantage of this marketed feature to dynamically adapt to the environment.

Thanks.

The night/day settings are not dynamic. They are a way to calibrate for both daytime and nighttime settings so if you have drastic changes in environment you can have independant settings for each. That's what the adv1/2 are for.
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post #1184 of 11274 Old 07-12-2009, 07:37 PM
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illuvial and Darin,

Please remove (and forget) the word "auto" from my 123 post above, and use "factory" instead.

Does it make sense now?

Geometry correction appears to be ON by default from the factory.

When disabling that 'factory' geo correction with... menu 2457, 0... we land on the 'manual' geo correction controls screen. Got me?

The question I was trying to ask/confirm, is how to exit without activating those 'manual' geo controls?

Because as Darin and others have told us, the only way to see the true un-manipulated geometry of the unit, and the only way to get full resolution, is to have neither factory nor user-manual geometry correction activated. Both should be off, or disabled.

One day at a time...
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post #1185 of 11274 Old 07-12-2009, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreaux View Post

Where is the 3D thread?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=790210
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post #1186 of 11274 Old 07-12-2009, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy nightmares View Post

illuvial and Darin,

Please remove (and forget) the word "auto" from my 123 post above, and use "factory" instead.

Does it make sense now?

Geometry correction appears to be ON by default from the factory.

When disabling that 'factory' geo correction with... menu 2457, 0... we land on the 'manual' geo correction controls screen. Got me?

The question I was trying to ask/confirm, is how to exit without activating those 'manual' geo controls?

Because as Darin and others have told us, the only way to see the true un-manipulated geometry of the unit, and the only way to get full resolution, is to have neither factory nor user-manual geometry correction activated. Both should be off, or disabled.

It looks like there's more talk about geometry on this thread which has me thinking more about it. I am hoping someone can address my geometry questions. I did make some adjustments using manual geometry in the SM to correct some bowing and such. All seems good and the picture to me looks great. But like it is being said on this thread that any adjustments in geometry would reduce resolution.

1. How much to the naked eye is this reduction in resolution?

2. How does one actually know if they have enabled/disabled geometry?

3. Is it possible to revert any geometry changes to their original factory settings? If so, how?

Thanks.
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post #1187 of 11274 Old 07-12-2009, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darin View Post

If you turn off geometry correction, it will render all 1920x1080 pixels. It's just that some of them will not be visible because they will be outside the screen area. That is simply the nature of rear projection. They can't make geometry perfect, so they sacrifice some around the edges to keep the imperfection less visible. If you try to correct this electornically, you won't get full 1920x1080 resolution, because of the reduction required.


Correct, geometry is either enabled, using either factory or user settings to manipulate the shape of the image being projected, or it is disabled. Geometry correction is essentially just like using photoshop to "warp" an image in photoshop. And once that image is manipulated, it is slightly degraded, because not all the image pixels fall precisely where the physical pixels in the imager are. So interpolation must be used.

Anyone here successfully "disable" geometry correction on an 737 or 837? Darin has communicated to me he has successfully disabled it on the 73736.

I have not seen anything in the service menu alluding to the ability of disabling. Rather, the only options are for adjusting the correction or restoring the default correction settings.

I've adjusted for the geometry correction to the extreme such that one particular corner is set as being severely underscanned. Test a 1080p signal that one can comparatively view lost pixel lines of details. I.E. image/frame data that would be visible on a 1:1 lcd.

My understanding of overscan is that a percentage of pixels are reflected towards the inside of the flat screen and are hidden from the viewer.

However, I am witnessing loss of pixels at the instance of reflection. For example, it seems as though the either the dlp chip's mirrors are not reflecting several lines, or these lines are obstructed somewhere in the lens or mirrors. Several lines of pixels are missing from the 1920x1080 composition and are not projected towards the flat screen. They've been eliminated prior to the light engine it seems.

I may be ignorant of certain technicalities and just wanted to see if others have noticed this. A small type copyright notice in a corner may be slightly cutoff even when adjusted for overscan.

Note: I upgraded from a 73927 to a 72837 and am very pleased. Do not take the aforementioned issue seriously as it is trivial. These dlp's offer tremendous performance while merely lacking 1:1 pixel mapping. The image on my presently non-calibrated 73837 can almost provide the wow factor as that of my 65813 calibrated by Craig. I look forward to seeing the 73837 calibrated.
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post #1188 of 11274 Old 07-12-2009, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orta View Post

Sorry if this is redundant, but nothing I searched returned any meaningful results. What exactly are the differences between these modes--C9, 737, and 837? Mitsubishi's site seems suspiciously devoid of any worthwhile information or specs.

So far as I can tell, the C9 models are aimed at big-box discounters like Costco and similar. It seems they are missing the software processing tricks like SharpEdge an DeepField Imager that a lot of people don't like anyway.

I would be very unsurprised if a C9 could be flashed by firmware to a 737 --but you'd have to have the right firmware in the first place. Certainly one shouldn't buy one based on that expectation.
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post #1189 of 11274 Old 07-13-2009, 07:07 AM
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I would stay away from the C9. Price difference is not dramatic and you can get a good deal on the better models. I would only consider the 837 and only 73" or smaller, found the 82" is too soft to my taste.

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post #1190 of 11274 Old 07-13-2009, 09:11 AM
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Does anyone know if its possible to undo all manual geometry adjustments to the original factory condition? I see an option in the SM that sounds like it does, but I am not for sure.
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post #1191 of 11274 Old 07-13-2009, 09:17 AM
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Yeah, the restore works to do that so long as you didn't backup your user changes over the top of it.
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post #1192 of 11274 Old 07-13-2009, 10:25 AM
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Not sure if were allowed to talk price here but anyone seen a good deal on the 65837?
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post #1193 of 11274 Old 07-13-2009, 10:48 AM
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Not sure if were allowed to talk price here but anyone seen a good deal on the 65837?

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...=20-23221037-2
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post #1194 of 11274 Old 07-13-2009, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VegasRph View Post

WD60737 - 60" TV..... the TV that I have, doesn't come in a 837 (Diamond Series).

WD65737/WD65837 - these are 65" TVs that came "standard" (737) or "Diamond Series" (837). 837-has a few more adjustments & deeper blacks.

WD73737/WD73837 - these are 73" Tvs

WD83837 - 83" TV that ONLY comes 837 - Diamond Series.

From what I have gathered, the 837 "Diamond Series" may have a few more detailing options for PQ (deeper blacks for sure) and usually run $400 MORE than the "standard" 737 model.

Thanks Vegas. I am familiar with the size designations, I was just wondering what features each model adds. For instance, is the C9 (more or less) just a rebranded 736 from last year? Do the 737's or 837's add a new Dark Chip iteration? Better screens, better processing, user menu CMS? Stuff along those lines.
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post #1195 of 11274 Old 07-13-2009, 10:59 AM
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I have been tweaking the settings on my TV (60737) for a couple of days now and everything is very close to perfect for me...the only issue is that yellows are showing up a little "yellow-green"...any suggestions on what to tweek to correct this?
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post #1196 of 11274 Old 07-13-2009, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orta View Post

Thanks Vegas. I am familiar with the size designations, I was just wondering what features each model adds. For instance, is the C9 (more or less) just a rebranded 736 from last year? Do the 737's or 837's add a new Dark Chip iteration? Better screens, better processing, user menu CMS? Stuff along those lines.

TI's DC4 is in all three 2009 model lines. I think last year's models, some had DC4 and some had DC3.

C9 is missing some software image processing user options available in the other two --no SharpEdge and no DeepField imager. I find the first to have value at times and not so much at other times, but turned the second off more or less permenantly after some experimentation. No evidence I've seen that it is a "rebranded" 736 --it has more/better features in some ways, but less in others.

837 adds the iris (aka "Dark Detailer") which has a hardware component that improves contrast in dark scenes, Net Command, Perfect Tint, ability to create/save Day/Night settings, a nicer looking exterior, an extra hdmi input (4 vs 3 on the other two models), and a usb port.
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post #1197 of 11274 Old 07-13-2009, 12:42 PM
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AFAIK, all of the 2008 units were DC4. Like this year, the various models last year were all pretty much the same, with only the top model having the iris, and the lower ones having various image processing features and other options removed.

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post #1198 of 11274 Old 07-13-2009, 12:50 PM
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Looking at the specs for last year's models vs this year's models. . . what happened to "Tru1080p"? It seems to have vanished from the 2009 marketing materials. Did they just quit marketing it, or did a technology change (like say going to DC4) make it unnecessary?
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post #1199 of 11274 Old 07-13-2009, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darin View Post

AFAIK, all of the 2008 units were DC4. Like this year, the various models last year were all pretty much the same, with only the top model having the iris, and the lower ones having various image processing features and other options removed.

Ah, you'd know better than I would re DC4 and the 2008 models. Before I bought I did some light browsing in the 2008 owners thread, and I thought there were suggestions there that DC4 wasn't in some of the lower models, or maybe had transitioned from DC3 to DC4 in some of them over the course of the year. . . but perhaps that got straightened out later on in the thread and I just didn't get that far. Understanding improves over time with these things.
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post #1200 of 11274 Old 07-13-2009, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georule View Post

TI's DC4 is in all three 2009 model lines. I think last year's models, some had DC4 and some had DC3.

C9 is missing some software image processing user options available in the other two --no SharpEdge and no DeepField imager. I find the first to have value at times and not so much at other times, but turned the second off more or less permenantly after some experimentation. No evidence I've seen that it is a "rebranded" 736 --it has more/better features in some ways, but less in others.

837 adds the iris (aka "Dark Detailer") which has a hardware component that improves contrast in dark scenes, Net Command, Perfect Tint, ability to create/save Day/Night settings, a nicer looking exterior, an extra hdmi input (4 vs 3 on the other two models), and a usb port.

How do I creat day/night settings? I am familiar with Adv1 and ADv2 but I thought each input allowed just one setting. I can MANUALLY change the picture setting at night. For example, Natural/Low or Natural/High at night vs. Bright/Low for the day. But, I must use the MENU feature to accomplish the change.
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