Mitsubishi 2007 (and possibility '06 & '08) lens cleaning procedure. No more halo's. - Page 14 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #391 of 422 Old 12-23-2016, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Thomas View Post
My set is still going strong. I had the light engine replaced once under warranty due to the halos and then I have had to clean the lens several times over the 9 years I have had it. I used to do it once a year or so but it has been needing it less frequently.

I have been wanting to upgrade to UHD but it's not easy letting go of this old friend...
By the way, thanks for the great info on the procedure, it gave me the confidence to do this myself and has served me well all these years.

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post #392 of 422 Old 01-07-2017, 02:51 PM
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Thanks from me as well for this thread.


I recently tuned up a worn out WD-92840 I picked up off craigslist. It had 16,800 hours on it with only 1 bulb replacement throughout that whole time! The picture was pretty dim and not sharp.

The larger 92" 2011-2012 tvs have an all metal light path compared the plastic light path (which degrades from the UV) on the smaller TVs from 2006-2008. The metal light path TVs have much less degradation over time but as many of them are 5 years old at this point can be improved with a cleaning. For my newer TV I could not find a way to get to the intermediate lenses in the path, it seemed to be sealed up pretty well. I ended up cleaning the main lens along with the color wheel and everything else I could get to. I decided not to remove the mirror between the chip and main lens.

After cleaning everything including the main mirror and screen and a bulb replacement the TV is substantially better.
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post #393 of 422 Old 01-08-2017, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Darin View Post
Has anyone done this procedure and experienced a poorly aligned image once done? I have an '08 WD-73736. Not long after getting it, I started getting a few of the "blobs" that others have experienced: faint light-colored orbs on black backgrounds, that were presumably dust specs somewhere internally. Although I had seen this thread, it didn't bother me enough to motivate me to tear the set apart. After 3.5 years and nearly 5000 hrs on the lamp... I had to tear my entire system apart anyway to swap out my AVR, I figured it was time to put a fresh bulb in, so I figured it was time to clean out the light path. Although I hadn't noticed the orbs in a long time, I think because there was enough dust at this point that a few orbs just became so many that they weren't as noticeable.

I took the light engine out, and took the lens assembly off the light engine. The front lens (the large one that is exposed inside of the set) had a fair amount of dust on it, but the internal one that is "sealed" inside the light engine was clean. I didn't have the haze that many of you had. Put it all back together and checked it out, and suddenly I could see TONS of orbs! It almost seemed worse, but I think perhaps the fresh bulb and the cleaning of dust off of the large lens just made them more noticeable.

After thinking about it, I figured the orbs had to be due to dust on the DMD, because a black background image should have the light available to produce the orbs, unless the dust as at the DMD... if dust is on the DMD, it can reflect light before the individual mirrors are able to redirect the light away from the screen. So I tore it apart again, took the lens assembly back off, and got the light engine in the sunlight so I could see the DMD really well. Sure enough, when I held it at the correct angle, I could see a lot of dust near the surface of the DMD. But it wasn't on the surface of the top layer of glass inside the light engine: it seemed trapped behind that glass. I couldn't get to it, and I didn't really know how the DMD was attached in there and if I would cause irreparable damage trying to get to it. So I accepted defeat, and put it all back together.

When I powered the set on this time, I suddenly noticed the image was about 2-3" below the top of the screen. I was really perplexed by this, because unlike the earlier models shown in the OP, my '08 model does not have any image position adjustments. The light engine simply slides in and screws into one place. For better or for worse, they depend on their manufacturing tolerances to get the image centered close enough, then rely on overscan and electronic image adjustments to take care of the rest. But in my case, the image was now so far off that it was still an inch shy from the top after maxing out the electronic adjustments.

I took the light engine out, put it back in, and still the same. I turned the set on then looked inside one of the side access panels, and I could tell by the light passing through the lens that the problem didn't seem to be how the light engine was installed in the TV... the image was misaligned coming out of the lens! The image coming out of the lens was aimed too low relative to the rectangular mask in front of the lens. I took the LE out again, confirmed that the lens assembly was indeed installed flat/flush onto the LE. I could find no obvious reason for the image to be misaligned.

Since the lens appeared to attached to the LE correctly (at some point in this process, I took it off and put it back on, with the same problem), it seemed to me that there could only be two other places that would affect how the image is aimed prior to the image coming through the mask on the final lens: the wobulation mirror, and the DMD itself. Given that my set was unusable as it was, and the whole reason for starting this process in the first place was to get rid of dust, much of which was on the DMD itself, I decided to try it.

I took off the plate that covers that circuit board, the DMD heatsink, then the circuit board itself. Much to my relief, it was a fairly simple process. Nothing there is "hermetically sealed" (obvious by the presence of dust) or otherwise needs any special tools. The DMD is attached to the circuit board, and once removed you have full access to the glass on the LE, and the surface of the DMD (which still has some kind of glass covering on it). I didn't clean either with any fluid or cloth, I simply blew the dust off with a can of compressed air.

I put it back together, then proceeded to take off the wobulation mirror. All seemed fine in there (didn't require cleaning), so I put it back together. I then put the LE back in the TV, and strangely, the image was now only about 1/4" low (with the electronic adjustments at the same settings as they were before I started any of this). So I was pleased with that, as I knew I could easily adjust that out. Checked out the image on a black screen, and finally no orbs! NOW the set is back to looking like new!

Sadly though, I still have no understanding of what caused my initial misalignment, nor what got it fixed (well, fixed close enough). Believe it or not, I think this post is a compressed version of the actual process. I took the LE in and out many times, checking and re-checking how the lens was attached to the LE (since that was the only thing I disassembled initially), as well as how the LE attaches to the TV. The only contribution I can make is that possibly the internals of the LE may be sealed better than the earlier models: both the wobulation mirror and the internal lens were very clean on mine. At least on mine, dust in between the DMD and the glass on the light engine casting was the biggest problem, but that's not as hard to clean as you would at first fear.

I was backreading this topic trying to figure out a potential dust issue w/ my WD-60c9 ... I think thats the same "series"(diff year) as yours Darin? The newer ones?
I am not quite experiencing "blobs" but Im experiencing a black w/ a bunch of noise. I have no clue if the set has always been like this or if its something that recently developed( I moved recently) I also sit a good foot or 2 closer to TV now. Ive attached what my blacks look like on the service menu(I figure this leaves out any chance of signal being cause of black noise).
I recently took my LE out, tried replacing a bulb that has 3700hrs on it w/ exact same bulb (OSRAM) ... changing the bulb made absolutely no difference, the new one wasnt even brighter. Guess my old one has plenty of left, so I put the old one back in. I also cleaned out the fans (w/ vaccum). I did take the metal shroud off the dmd board and the heatsink off the dmd to replace the TIM pad(was fairly dry) w/ some AS5(much better thermal conductivity), also cleaned main LE external lense(one that shines into TV), I just used a microfiber cloth and gently wiped dust off it, its shiny as can be.... reassembled everything and nothing has changed. Granted everything still works perfectly =)
For some reason my particular TV doesnt have the side holes on the back so I cant easily inspect the rear mirror to see if it has dust.
I did perform a flashlight reflection test .. no idea if this would expose any dust grains being reflected off the internal mirrors ... but if it would, I show no specs being reflected back by the large mirror in the set.
Im wondering do you think it would still be worth it to remove DMD board and inspect the 2 surfaces you did? I dont know how dust specs can be the size of individual pixels cuz that seems to be the size as evident in my pictures. So, thats why Im kinda thinking it may not be either of those surfaces you discovered had specs. I dont know.
My TV is 7-8yrs old now, running 3700hrs on original bulb. The inside was far less dirtier then I expected after 7-8yrs and never opening it before.
I just dont know what I should try..... any ideas?

The pictures Ive attached show 2 different exposure levels. I would say in most cases the spots are about the brightness indicated in the lesser pronounced pictures. All pictures taken within a few inches of the set(except the obvious further ones). The blurriness can be ignored, thats because couldnt hold my hand steady enough =P

Thanks for any help =)
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post #394 of 422 Old 01-10-2017, 06:17 AM
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I'm not expert, but that looks like the typical DLP mosquito noise of yesteryears. Maybe you are just now seeing it because you are closer to the set? I good brightness/contrast cal will hopefully take care of it.

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post #395 of 422 Old 01-10-2017, 07:49 AM
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I'm not expert, but that looks like the typical DLP mosquito noise of yesteryears. Maybe you are just now seeing it because you are closer to the set? I good brightness/contrast cal will hopefully take care of it.
"mosquito noise" is that in reference to dithering? If so, dithering artifacts move...correct? ... these dots(noise) dont move, they are static. Ive been messing w/ brightness and contrast, seems even set all the way down (the extreme, not ideal) the noise is still there =/
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post #396 of 422 Old 01-10-2017, 07:59 AM
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Are you sure? They weren't moving in the pics you posted. Lol! Ok, my mistake. Then it has to be dust somewhere in the light path. Sounds like you've hit the major points for your cleaning, but you may have to dig deeper. I have never seen anyone report this type of defect in their pic though, in all my years of keeping up with this series of tv's. (I still own and use a 65735 model.) Good luck!

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post #397 of 422 Old 01-13-2017, 07:01 PM
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Are you sure? They weren't moving in the pics you posted. Lol! Ok, my mistake. Then it has to be dust somewhere in the light path. Sounds like you've hit the major points for your cleaning, but you may have to dig deeper. I have never seen anyone report this type of defect in their pic though, in all my years of keeping up with this series of tv's. (I still own and use a 65735 model.) Good luck!
Well, my hand may have not been completely still, because of the blurr.... But the dots themselves are non moving.
So, when the screen is solid black (like in service menu patterns) .... there should be no such "noise" right? Should just be a clean "black"(obviously not true black since there is some light)?
Thanks
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post #398 of 422 Old 01-15-2017, 10:25 AM
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Are you sure? They weren't moving in the pics you posted. Lol! Ok, my mistake. Then it has to be dust somewhere in the light path. Sounds like you've hit the major points for your cleaning, but you may have to dig deeper. I have never seen anyone report this type of defect in their pic though, in all my years of keeping up with this series of tv's. (I still own and use a 65735 model.) Good luck!
Well I took the light engine out again and gave it a more in depth look. Also, my TV doesnt have the side access cutouts in the upper cabinet to look inside so, in order to see if the screen was dirty I just lightly touched micro fibre cloth on back side of screen in cabinet, in one area. It made absolutely no difference.
In regards to the light engine, I noticed 2 areas that may be the cause.
1. It *may* be the DMD chip itself, when I look at it in shiny light, it reflects perfectly like a mirror, when I look at it w/ no reflection(which would be the case of DMD "blacks") ... it looks like it has a very(extremely) fine graininess to it. Though, the chip is not exhibiting any of the common dark/lightspot issues people report. I would either A: need to buy another DMD to figure out if they are all like this or B: find some hi-res pictures of same angle to see if they are all like this.
2. I noticed the mirror that reflects light directly onto the DMD, has very fine dust particles on it. I have no easy way to access this mirror, its part of the "sealed" light path from colorwheel -> lenses -> mirrors -> DMD. I tried removing the plastic shroud that acts as a dust cover for this light path and even tho I took out all the screws, I couldnt get the shroud off w/o feeling like I was going to damage something. I got it to budge, but it should come off much easier. Its like trying to remove the cover off the colorwheel compartment, even tho I take the 2 screws out ... that top cover wont budge. I dont know if these covers are glued into place or what.

One test I performed is grabbing a very light LED flashlight I have and shining it through the light path where the bulb would normally be, then I saw the reflection of light from that mirror that has the fine dust on it, it was reflected onto the ceiling. I couldnt notice any obvious "noise" caused by the dust on the mirror, in the reflection of light on the ceiling.

On that note, I put everything back together and managed to not screw anything up... yay! Functions & looks same as it did =) ... just wish I could get rid of that black noise. UGH....
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post #399 of 422 Old 01-16-2017, 05:39 AM
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I haven't had a chance to pull up that service menu screen that you show in your pics. If you can provide some guidance, I can navigate that unknown with a bit more confidence. I do have the defective DMD chip that I replaced in my set for the stuck pixel problem. You can PM me you details if you'd like me to mail it to you for cosmetic comparison/evaluation.

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post #400 of 422 Old 01-16-2017, 10:16 AM
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I haven't had a chance to pull up that service menu screen that you show in your pics. If you can provide some guidance, I can navigate that unknown with a bit more confidence. I do have the defective DMD chip that I replaced in my set for the stuck pixel problem. You can PM me you details if you'd like me to mail it to you for cosmetic comparison/evaluation.
Service menu screens: MENU -> 2 4 5 7 then PLAY then FF RW to scroll patterns, theres also a second group of patterns if you hit PLAY then use FF RW

I know what the stuck pixels look like, mine dont appear like that at all, I also know what the chip looks like that has stuck pixels.
Im wondering what a new chip looks like, if it has this noticeable noise at some angles or not. If it doesnt, then I guess this is the source of my black noise and somehow my DMD has a problem "resetting pixels fully to dark position"(but rather they get caught in an almost dark position) .... which Ive read nothing about.
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post #401 of 422 Old 01-16-2017, 04:49 PM
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Just looked at the overscan test pattern, and didn't see anything in the black sections like what you showed. Got up close and scanned slowly.
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post #402 of 422 Old 01-16-2017, 04:54 PM
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You've probably already ruled this out, but if that defect shows all the way across the screen, and slowly scrolls upwards, you may have a ground loop creating noise. Isolate the tv completely except for the power plug and look at that test pattern again.
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post #403 of 422 Old 01-16-2017, 11:08 PM
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You've probably already ruled this out, but if that defect shows all the way across the screen, and slowly scrolls upwards, you may have a ground loop creating noise. Isolate the tv completely except for the power plug and look at that test pattern again.
Like I said, the "noise" doesnt move at all. Doesnt slowly scroll up or randomly quickly move around like dithering.
Any chance you can take a nice close up picture so I can compare what looks like vs my posted pictures?
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post #404 of 422 Old 01-17-2017, 06:47 AM
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I'll take a pic tonight, with all of the lights out. Is this noise only in the section that you showed in pics 3 and 4?

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post #405 of 422 Old 01-17-2017, 05:02 PM
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I'll take a pic tonight, with all of the lights out. Is this noise only in the section that you showed in pics 3 and 4?
No, its pretty much across the entire screen w/ little variance. In the upper part it seems there is a tad bit less but no much.
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post #406 of 422 Old 01-17-2017, 06:53 PM
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No, its pretty much across the entire screen w/ little variance. In the upper part it seems there is a tad bit less but no much.
I can't explain my pics. But here they are taken with my phone, an HTC One M7. I do not see what the phone sees, so maybe your vision is much better than mine. I see what I think is the phone sensor exaggerating the amount of incoming light. The last two pics are one of an all black screen (and it's lit up), and an all blue screen (much brighter in the center than it actually is). Sorry, I don't think this will help at all. Again, I do not see any of the overly illuminated areas seen by the camera, nor anything resembling what you showed in your pics.
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post #407 of 422 Old 01-18-2017, 04:58 PM
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I can't explain my pics. But here they are taken with my phone, an HTC One M7. I do not see what the phone sees, so maybe your vision is much better than mine. I see what I think is the phone sensor exaggerating the amount of incoming light. The last two pics are one of an all black screen (and it's lit up), and an all blue screen (much brighter in the center than it actually is). Sorry, I don't think this will help at all. Again, I do not see any of the overly illuminated areas seen by the camera, nor anything resembling what you showed in your pics.
Think you are right, think the graininess in your pics is due to your phone. =/
Well Im at a loss lol! Dont know what to do except start replacing DMD and entire light engine just to see if that changes anything =(
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post #408 of 422 Old 08-07-2017, 06:52 AM
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Think you are right, think the graininess in your pics is due to your phone. =/
Well Im at a loss lol! Dont know what to do except start replacing DMD and entire light engine just to see if that changes anything =(
Would you recommend doing this on a 2010 WD-82738?

I am having the hazy/halo picture as well. On Sat, took the front and back off. Cleaned the mirror, lens, and fan. Picture still has halo and hazy washed out picture.

I am not tech savvy and really nervous to take apart the LE. Do you def think that that is where the prob lies (interior lens/iris/dmd chip), needs cleaning?

Brand new lamp is in place.

Was referred to this thread from this one:
2010 Mitsubishi 3D DLP Owners Thread (738/838 series)
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post #409 of 422 Old 08-07-2017, 06:59 AM
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Pretty sure that's what the problem is. The instructions on this thread are very good directions on exactly what to do. I'm no engineer but I was able to follow them several times to clean my LE with excellent results.
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post #410 of 422 Old 08-07-2017, 09:00 AM
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Pretty sure that's what the problem is. The instructions on this thread are very good directions on exactly what to do. I'm no engineer but I was able to follow them several times to clean my LE with excellent results.
One thing that makes me nervous is that I cannot find pics of anyone doing this on the 82738 model. Mine looks way different than the pics in the first post of this.
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post #411 of 422 Old 08-07-2017, 12:27 PM
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how do you clean the mirror on a WD60-C9? There aren't any side ports...
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post #412 of 422 Old 08-07-2017, 05:41 PM
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Would anyone be able to walk me through taking the LE engine out and cleaning the lenses, perhaps through facetime? I'm willing to pay someone, quite generously, for their time.
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post #413 of 422 Old 08-08-2017, 03:00 AM
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how do you clean the mirror on a WD60-C9? There aren't any side ports...

You disassemble the front screens (two people, wear gloves).

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You disassemble the front screens (two people, wear gloves).
Thanks.. How long from start to finish? approx.. Is the front screen complicated?
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post #415 of 422 Old 08-08-2017, 11:55 AM
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Thanks.. How long from start to finish? approx.. Is the front screen complicated?

Link to Service Manual here: Mitsubishi WD-73C9 Screen Help


Page 16, I believe.

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I was backreading this topic trying to figure out a potential dust issue w/ my WD-60c9 ... I think thats the same "series"(diff year) as yours Darin? The newer ones?
I am not quite experiencing "blobs" but Im experiencing a black w/ a bunch of noise. I have no clue if the set has always been like this or if its something that recently developed( I moved recently) I also sit a good foot or 2 closer to TV now. Ive attached what my blacks look like on the service menu(I figure this leaves out any chance of signal being cause of black noise).
I recently took my LE out, tried replacing a bulb that has 3700hrs on it w/ exact same bulb (OSRAM) ... changing the bulb made absolutely no difference, the new one wasnt even brighter. Guess my old one has plenty of left, so I put the old one back in. I also cleaned out the fans (w/ vaccum). I did take the metal shroud off the dmd board and the heatsink off the dmd to replace the TIM pad(was fairly dry) w/ some AS5(much better thermal conductivity), also cleaned main LE external lense(one that shines into TV), I just used a microfiber cloth and gently wiped dust off it, its shiny as can be.... reassembled everything and nothing has changed. Granted everything still works perfectly =)
For some reason my particular TV doesnt have the side holes on the back so I cant easily inspect the rear mirror to see if it has dust.
I did perform a flashlight reflection test .. no idea if this would expose any dust grains being reflected off the internal mirrors ... but if it would, I show no specs being reflected back by the large mirror in the set.
Im wondering do you think it would still be worth it to remove DMD board and inspect the 2 surfaces you did? I dont know how dust specs can be the size of individual pixels cuz that seems to be the size as evident in my pictures. So, thats why Im kinda thinking it may not be either of those surfaces you discovered had specs. I dont know.
My TV is 7-8yrs old now, running 3700hrs on original bulb. The inside was far less dirtier then I expected after 7-8yrs and never opening it before.
I just dont know what I should try..... any ideas?

The pictures Ive attached show 2 different exposure levels. I would say in most cases the spots are about the brightness indicated in the lesser pronounced pictures. All pictures taken within a few inches of the set(except the obvious further ones). The blurriness can be ignored, thats because couldnt hold my hand steady enough =P

Thanks for any help =)
UPDATE ON THIS ISSUE I outlined above.....

Due to some pixels turning to stuck position(after 9years of use or so)... both in white and black positions ... I bought a new DMD chip.... replaced it....
The above issue of the grainy looking blacks, completely gone!!!!!!!!!
So, these DMD's must degrade over time and their mirrors must not completely reset to black or something. (in addition to being stuck in either white or black position).
Couldnt be happier w/ the picture quality right now ... the blacks are so deep again!

So, if anyone else ends up noticing grainy blacks like the above pictures ... its time for a new DMD.

Whats hilarious is my stock bulb has lasted longer than the DMD =P
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post #417 of 422 Old 08-11-2017, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenTarkin View Post
... So, these DMD's must degrade over time and their mirrors must not completely reset to black or something. (in addition to being stuck in either white or black position).
...


They don't normally degrade over time. They were rated at over 200,000 hours. Texas Instruments produces the chips, and they had some bad batches (manufacturing errors). This has impacted Samsung DLPs as well, and even my local theater had some stuck mirrors a few years back.


EDIT
Also, if changing the lamp made no difference, you got a bad (probably knockoff) lamp. Buy your lamps here: https://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/support/parts

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Last edited by Augerhandle; 08-11-2017 at 12:03 PM.
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post #418 of 422 Old 08-11-2017, 03:26 PM
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Well that's the end of that. It's bricked.

I am not spending anymore time on this thing. It is going to the end of the driveway with "FREE" taped to it.


Disgusted. Completely disgusted. Close to $900 for... nothing but stress, stomach aches, and heartache.

Thank you to everyone who tried to help me out. It's greatly appreciated.
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post #419 of 422 Old 08-11-2017, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnnyecks View Post
Well that's the end of that. It's bricked.
I am not spending anymore time on this thing. It is going to the end of the driveway with "FREE" taped to it.
Disgusted. Completely disgusted. Close to $900 for... nothing but stress, stomach aches, and heartache.
Thank you to everyone who tried to help me out. It's greatly appreciated.
Some of these guys have fixed shadows & halos on the DLP sets. Was that the issue with yours?

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...tv+halo+shadow
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post #420 of 422 Old 08-12-2017, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post
They don't normally degrade over time. They were rated at over 200,000 hours. Texas Instruments produces the chips, and they had some bad batches (manufacturing errors). This has impacted Samsung DLPs as well, and even my local theater had some stuck mirrors a few years back.


EDIT
Also, if changing the lamp made no difference, you got a bad (probably knockoff) lamp. Buy your lamps here: https://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/support/parts
Well, speaking to the "degredation" .... thats obviously "on paper". Something in these DMD's degrades over time ... whether is cuz heat or other factors ... it has some sorta affect.
Because my DMD(over the last 8 years or so of ownership) went from really deep blacks(like this new one) ... to blacks that had many pixels which werent quite in the black state but rather a really dark grey state(so it looked like noisy black overall). BUT, they also werent stuck in their black or white states at all.

Also, you are incorrect about the bulb - I purchased the original OSRAM bulb which Im pretty sure is(at least I think the original is a OSRAM PVIP... maybe its a neolux of phillips but I read those are inferior):
http://www.shopjimmy.com/osram-p-vip...rrp-e022-4.htm

I could see no discernible difference in light output after powering it on vs the old one that has about 5k hours on it... so I put the original one back in and will use it till it dies.
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