Sony optical block talk and repair assitance - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 136 Old 01-13-2010, 06:53 PM - Thread Starter
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With so many Sony sets in need of optical blocks I would like to start a how to remove, clean and reinstall for all model WEGA. All Sony models welcome. I will add pictures and how to for each model when I have a chance.
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post #2 of 136 Old 01-13-2010, 08:14 PM
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http://sites.google.com/site/sonylcd...ockreplacement
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post #3 of 136 Old 01-21-2010, 02:46 PM
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Specifics for each model would be especially helpful. I have a KDF-50WE655 and once you remove the back cover my set is little different from either the model linked to in the above post and the model shown on the sunnyoasis site. Amazing that there can be such differences on sets with what appear to be identical chassis'. Mostly they are minor but I imagine they would really throw a curve at a less experienced person who may consider cleaning the fans and possibly the optical block themselves.
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post #4 of 136 Old 01-21-2010, 06:14 PM
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how do you determine if your different colored cloudy lcd filters are cleanable or need replacing.and if colored filters are replacable ,why is it nobdy sells them.I think when they say rebuild optical block they really mean clean and wash parts.I don't think there is any replacing involved .
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post #5 of 136 Old 02-09-2010, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawa View Post

how do you determine if your different colored cloudy lcd filters are cleanable or need replacing.and if colored filters are replacable ,why is it nobdy sells them.I think when they say rebuild optical block they really mean clean and wash parts.I don't think there is any replacing involved .

Generally speaking, it takes more than just cleaning to repair some of these optical blocks. Parts are replaced during the process.
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post #6 of 136 Old 02-13-2010, 06:43 PM
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Hello,

Please consider stopping by and answering the questions on this thread so we can consildate possible problems with SXRD:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1226707

Thank you for your participation.

Jim
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post #7 of 136 Old 02-21-2010, 08:30 PM
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Right, much more to the problem than cleaning. It's parts.

Replacement filters, mostly for the blue, are problem #1. SONY and other manufacturers likely don't make the raw materials for their blocks, they buy them from someone else, ie the dichroic mirrors, lenses, and polarizing filters. Unfortunately all the Service Manuals I've seen stop at the Light Engine. If we could find the original source for those components we could fix the block. Those parts are really not that expensive, and it's too bad the manufacturers don't just sell them. One can find components like polarizing filters here and there, but without specs on the original it's a lot of guesswork.

Problem #2 is the LCD panels. Again, I doubt if SONY makes every piece of it. Someone else likely sells them the LCD panel mounted on the metal rectangle with the ribbon.

I've looked inside a few mfgs LEs, and some of the parts like filters are not that different and might be interchangeable with a bit of work. Do ANY manufacturers sell parts for the inside of their LEs??? Does anyone have the theory of operation for the block down pat? The Steve Linke site is top-notch, but still needs some gaps filled in.
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post #8 of 136 Old 08-24-2010, 04:55 PM
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I just had the optical block replaced. It is failing. Sony is coming out to replace it again.

They just told me when they get here they will decide if the block will be replaced with yet another refurbed one OR if they will offer a replacement TV. They will not give me terms until the tech is on-site.

Beautiful example of high-pressure tactics to make a problem go away.

I am beginning to hate Sony - which I have owned since the Sony ProFeel (pre-XBR) days.
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post #9 of 136 Old 08-26-2010, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tire9tool View Post


I am beginning to hate Sony - which I have owned since the Sony ProFeel (pre-XBR) days.




I can tell you hate Sony by the fact you are posting in D@MN near every Sony thread on the forum

Ok we get it, you're upset with sony.............but d@mn

WeÂre doomed. It will never work
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post #10 of 136 Old 09-13-2010, 06:58 PM
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hi, i need information about the part number of the board that have the optical unit mounted, it is inside of an metal cover, the model of my tv is a kf-50we610, in the manual this part number does not exist, i dont know if you can help me with this?

the board is called C-BOARD? somebody have the part number, i need for buy it.
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post #11 of 136 Old 09-15-2010, 12:25 PM
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Well there is one company in the US that does it for $300 (for SXRDs I think for LCDs it is cheaper)--you send them your optical block, pay them $299 (and return shipping I'm guessing) and they rebuilt it back to factory specs.

It's called Tri-State Module...
http://www.tristatemodule.com/

I know of at least on person on another forum that had their SXRD block done by these guys and they said their TV was like new after thereafter. Of course how long it lasts from there is another story, but that's a design problem caused by Sony, not the rebuilder's fault. They give you a 6 month warranty on the rebuild, which is not much but better than nothing.
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post #12 of 136 Old 09-20-2010, 03:21 PM
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Hi,

Newbie here...

I have read and have done a lot of poking around on the internet and nobody is very forthcoming with where to get parts for optical blocks. I understand that rebuilders want to make their daily-bread... but if somebody wants to undergo the stress of rebuilding their own optical block... H E L P ! ! !

--------------
Sony KDF-55XS955
Light Engine / Optical Block - Part # A1084666A

--------------
I have the BLUE BLOB / Speckles problem. I did notice on a forum page, a mention of a burned-in rectangle image, on the blue filter. I had this rectangle image on mine. They suggested that this may be the problem to the blue blob issue.

I've elected to replace this one filter as my next step and wanted to know if anybody has those filters? If so, where do I go?? or if there is a different filter that the housing could be shaved down to fit... That info would help too.

Here is a picture of the filter: www (dot) cyberfan (dot) com (slash) blue_filter (dot)jpg

Thanks in advance...

Cyberfan
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post #13 of 136 Old 09-21-2010, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberfan View Post

Hi,

Newbie here...

I have read and have done a lot of poking around on the internet and nobody is very forthcoming with where to get parts for optical blocks. I understand that rebuilders want to make their daily-bread... but if somebody wants to undergo the stress of rebuilding their own optical block... H E L P ! ! !

--------------
Sony KDF-55XS955
Light Engine / Optical Block - Part # A1084666A

--------------
I have the BLUE BLOB / Speckles problem. I did notice on a forum page, a mention of a burned-in rectangle image, on the blue filter. I had this rectangle image on mine. They suggested that this may be the problem to the blue blob issue.

I've elected to replace this one filter as my next step and wanted to know if anybody has those filters? If so, where do I go?? or if there is a different filter that the housing could be shaved down to fit... That info would help too.

Here is a picture of the filter: www (dot) cyberfan (dot) com (slash) blue_filter (dot)jpg

Thanks in advance...

Cyberfan

There are a couple of block rebuilders out there, and they don't sell parts. They are likely getting their parts from i) dealers that specialize in obsolete parts in quantity ii) the same subcontractors that Sony got their filters, panels, lenses, etc, from originally, and in quantity. Those parts are Sony designs, Sony still owns them, and they are not going to sell them without Sony's permission.

The couple of rebuilders that exist must do so with Sony's acquiescence, -my theory.

The only manufacturer that ever sold parts to the public for the inside of their light engine is Panasonic. No one else I am aware of has.

The picture you posted a link to is from Linke's site. Your problem as described sounds more like the LCD panel used for blue has degenerated. Post a picture of your input polarizer (blue channel) and the LCD panel for blue and maybe I can be more certain.

A polarizer may have a subtle burned-in rectangle slightly faded and still when assembled produce a decent picture. They also get very dirty because dust tends to cling to them. More serious damage obviously will affect the picture. If the blue blobs you have are the moving kind with a lava-lamp look, your LCD panel is certainly bad. The blue speckles are dead blue pixels, also an LCD panel failure.

Used clunkers off craigslist or junk light engines on ebay may be better sources of parts than looking for new. Replacing LCD panels is another level of difficulty greater than polarizers, because then you will almost certainly have a convergence problem to fix.
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post #14 of 136 Old 12-31-2010, 05:55 PM
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Somewhere out there must be a place to source the damn filters. I have a very nice KDF-E42A10 that I love. Great picture. Except for the great big yellow blotch in the middle of the screen. I pulled the optical block, and it is pristine n every way except for the burnt polarizing filter in the blue light path.

Yes, Sony is sending me a very nice replacement TV, but I REFUSE to believe that I have to throw out a perfectly good television for lack of a 2 dollar part! I have fixed other electronics, appliances, cars, you name it. Almost always can get parts or substitutes. Hell, last year I fixed a 53 year old snow blower by finding a substitute bearing.

I don't want to pay $199 or $299 to get it refurbed when I know what the problem is.

Anyone out there have ANY suggestions on where to get the blue light path filter material? I'm willing to pay a finders fee!

Sorry about the rant,
Keen
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post #15 of 136 Old 01-02-2011, 10:59 AM
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Anyone find out where any parts can be purchased. I have removed the optical blocks on several TV's and they all had the blue dots. I found the degraded Blue Lenz. See attached pictures. I think if I replace this LCD panel, the problem will be corrected, until it fails again. Thanks
LL
LL
LL
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post #16 of 136 Old 01-02-2011, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakemir View Post

Anyone find out where any parts can be purchased. I have removed the optical blocks on several TV's and they all had the blue dots. I found the degraded Blue Lenz. See attached pictures. I think if I replace this LCD panel, the problem will be corrected, until it fails again. Thanks

LCD panels for a repair can be sourced from another similar tv, meaning same manufacturer and same pixel x pixel. The LCD panels in these tvs are monochromatic, there's no 'blue LCD panel', just a panel in the blue path, and one in the red path, etc.

All blue path panels from these tvs are likely to be dead or on their way, but panels in the green or red path last much longer because they don't have to deal with the UV or higher energy blue that the lamp puts out. If you compare the red panel part numbers on your tv with the bad blue one, they are likely to be the same with the exception of date codes. On another tv the match might be with the green one.

If you swap LCD panels around you also have to contend with messed up convergence, which may be corrected in the service menus to a limited extent, beyond that you have to do it mechanically by trial and error.

Unfortunately the polarizing filter in the blue path is unique to blue. Same with the green and red, they are not interchangeable.

Blue polarizing filters are however somewhat interchangeable from one manufacturer to another, so if you pick up a dead Hitachi for example, you can probably use the blue filter from it if it's not already dead.
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post #17 of 136 Old 01-02-2011, 04:01 PM
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Thanks Chuck, Thats great information. I thought that since it said BL on it it was specifically for Blue, But I would like to try and change the red and blue and see what happens. I have several TVs with the same problem. I will check to see if the panels match on a 50 and a 55 inch set. I only have Sony tvs. I would really like to fix the SXRD but the OB is totally different than all of the rest. Thanks again.
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post #18 of 136 Old 01-03-2011, 06:07 PM
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My 70XBR2 started to have green blob issue on the top, upper-right corner and right side. Although far from perfect if I can keep it from getting worse I maybe able to use it for some other purposes.

Is there any thing I can do to stop this from getting any worse or simple inexpensive fix that will make it useable although it may not be perfect?

I'm still on my first bulb, not sure how many hours are on it.

Does simply removing and cleaning the OB fix some issues?

Thanks.
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post #19 of 136 Old 01-05-2011, 05:48 AM
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I was working with a KDF-50WE655 and a KDF-42WE655. The LCD panel numbers do not match at all, but they all look identical. I first used a green panel from the 42 TV and installed it in place of the Blue on the 50. After replaceing the blue dots were gone, but the convergence was off by about an inch. I removed everything, and tried again in the 42 using the 50 inch green in place of the 42 blue. On this set the tv has small (1/2) blue squares horizontally across the screen. There were about 25 rows. Here are the label part numbers for each TV:

KDF-50WE655
LCX043AUB5 BL
449184P

LCX043ATB4 GR
449177P

LCX043AUB2 RL
449202P

KDF-42WE655
LCX043ATB5 BR
447192P

LCX043AUB4 GL
448007P

LCX043ATB2 RR
447186P

Let me know if anyone can explain the BR vs BL, GR vs GL, and RL vs RR and also, if I did use the 50 inch TV, can the convergence be digitally adjusted.

Thanks
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post #20 of 136 Old 01-05-2011, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakemir View Post

I was working with a KDF-50WE655 and a KDF-42WE655. The LCD panel numbers do not match at all, but they all look identical. I first used a green panel from the 42 TV and installed it in place of the Blue on the 50. After replaceing the blue dots were gone, but the convergence was off by about an inch. I removed everything, and tried again in the 42 using the 50 inch green in place of the 42 blue. On this set the tv has small (1/2) blue squares horizontally across the screen. There were about 25 rows. Here are the label part numbers for each TV:

KDF-50WE655
LCX043AUB5 BL
449184P

LCX043ATB4 GR
449177P

LCX043AUB2 RL
449202P

KDF-42WE655
LCX043ATB5 BR
447192P

LCX043AUB4 GL
448007P

LCX043ATB2 RR
447186P

Let me know if anyone can explain the BR vs BL, GR vs GL, and RL vs RR and also, if I did use the 50 inch TV, can the convergence be digitally adjusted.

Thanks

On your tvs, in my opinion the LCX043ATs are interchangeable no matter what color path they are in, and the LCX043AUs are interchangeable. I have not been able to figure out what the B2/B4/B5 numbers mean. Ignore the 44.. numbers, they are probably some kind of date/batch codes.

Convergence is the big challenge when swapping panels. If you haven't already found out, simply removing a panel and putting it back in the same place is enough to mess up convergence.

I assume you have found a decent picture of some kind to do convergence, like a grid of white lines on a black background. Measure the delta physically on the screen, vertically and horizontally. Figure out the size of one pixel on the screen. (Knowing the dimension of the display area of the panel, the pixels by pixels, etc.) On the last 55" I worked on the pixels on the screen were .037" x .037", for instance. (Ignore overscan loss) Calculate how much the bare panel then has to be moved to eliminate the error, v and h.

Most panels mount with countersunk flathead screws. Get some screws the right length that are round head and some matching flat washers. Bore out the mounting holes in the LCD panel the appropriate dimension to allow you to move it the right amount. Hold the drill bit in a small vise-grip, not in an electric drill, and drill by hand. Cover the panel glass with a piece of cardboard and masking tape and watch the chips.

Boltdepot dot com is good, most of these screws are 2.0mm dia and 0.4mm pitch.

Make some visual aid like a scribed line on the panel mounting plane as a reference. Get out your car feeler gauge for a handy reference re what .XXX" looks like. On all three panels up is up; on the red and blue left and right are reversed because they go through one more reflection than the green. You also have to deal with 'rotational' convergence, because after you put the panel back on you have to get the line it generates on the convergence screen parallel to the others, as well as overlapping.

In the service menu you should find an electronic convergence buried somewhere. It will only be good for a few pixels though, nowhere near as many as you need to get 1/2". Use it for a final fine tuning. Probably in a different location in every model's SM unfortunately. Some models might not even have this.

Be very careful how you handle the glass prism block. When you undo screws, hold the piece of metal under the panel, not the body of the prism. Ditto when refastening. Get good at taking your tv apart and putting it back together, learn shortcuts and what you can do without, because there's a lot of trial and error here.
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post #21 of 136 Old 01-06-2011, 04:51 AM
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Is it possible the BL stands for Blue Left and BR is Blue right, and it some kind of mechanical convergence built into the LCD Panel. Could that be why I had a mix in both the 42 and 50 models. One had a RR BR and GL while the other had a RL BL and GR?
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post #22 of 136 Old 01-06-2011, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakemir View Post

Is it possible the BL stands for Blue Left and BR is Blue right, and it some kind of mechanical convergence built into the LCD Panel. Could that be why I had a mix in both the 42 and 50 models. One had a RR BR and GL while the other had a RL BL and GR?

It's possible that the L and R means left and right. Note that the 'AU' always corresponds to a '_L', and the 'AT' corresponds with a '_R'. I've seen LCD panels with part numbers with an 'AP' or 'AN' in place of the AU and AT, which hints at positive and negative. But left/right or positive/negative what?

All 3-LCD engines I have seen, all manufacturers, follow this pattern, with two 'flavors', and some will be XYX and some YXY. Green is always odd-man out. I believe it is more to do with the polarization scheme chosen for the light engine, but can't explain why there are two schemes.
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post #23 of 136 Old 01-10-2011, 03:22 PM
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Did you guys that had the OB replaced have to take it in to the authorized dealer?

I called Sony's hotline and they gave me an authorized dealers number. First of all they didnt have a clue what the Sony class action settlement was, then they told me to bring it in.

Eff that. They need to come to MY house.
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post #24 of 136 Old 01-11-2011, 04:00 AM
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mhall....They came to my house. The tech came out and instantly said yep, you have a bad OB. He ordered the new (refurbed) one and then came back to install it. Granted, I have the 70" XBR2, but the size should not have mattered on if they come out or not.
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post #25 of 136 Old 01-11-2011, 04:05 AM
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My only issue is that the green tint is pretty faint. It is only barely noticable on a white or gray screen. However my wife saw it too so I know I am not crazy. I am afraid he will think it wont merit a replacement and make me wait. Well the extension ends in July. Then I will be SOL.
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post #26 of 136 Old 01-11-2011, 11:15 AM
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To all those getting the OB replaced please make sure you have a variety of material to watch and test before you let the tech go. We only watched an NBA game and while it looked great all the bright colors hid problems with the replacement. Later when I watched anything in HD with a dark scene it looked horrible. Needless to say I to wait longer than I wanted to get a replacement for the replacement. The second one however, was perfect and I've been going for over 3 years with only one good cleaning a little over 1 year ago. Still a perfect picture. I still prefer the picture on this set to almost any LCD I have seen.
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post #27 of 136 Old 01-27-2011, 02:10 PM
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Are there any important differences in replacing the optical block for the KDS-r70xbr2 compared to the illustrations for the KDF-55WF655 on the website mentioned above? What can go wrong in the removal and replacement of the optical block?

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post #28 of 136 Old 01-27-2011, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericlhyman View Post

Are there any important differences in replacing the optical block for the KDS-r70xbr2 compared to the illustrations for the KDF-55WF655 on the website mentioned above? What can go wrong in the removal and replacement of the optical block?

Search the internet for a free service manual download, you will find one. It has photo illustrations to show how to take the set apart.

If you are replacing the block with a rebuilt block, it's just a matter of taking it apart and getting everything back together right. Take notes, make drawings, take photographs, label connectors, write down your steps as you do it. If you can take apart your desktop PC and put it back together, you can do it to a tv.
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post #29 of 136 Old 03-18-2011, 12:15 PM
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Newbie here. I've been reading a lot about the Sony optical block problems and took the plunge. My set has a large yellow oval in the middle and blue dots around the sides, so I disassembled my KDF-50WE655 the other day, including pulling the prism array. Sure enough, the blue light LCD matrix has a milky white discolored oval in the middle and the blue light polarizing filter has a large, rectangular, hazy, or lighter center.

I checked out Tri-State Module, as suggested, for optical block rebuild at $329. However, I see they now offer the Replacement Blue Polarizer and Replacement LCD Optical Block Panel at $80 a pop.

I read that replacing the optical block panel will throw off the blue light convergence and that it would require a mechanical alignment.

Has anyone tried replacing just the LCD optical block panel? Did you have to mechanically adjust the convergence? If so, how did you adjust and test the convergence to get it spot on?

I'm considering going this route, just to experiment and see if it can be done correctly. The question I am now mulling over is if I want to burn $160 and possibly have a none functional unit, or spend the $329 I have a good working TV again!!
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post #30 of 136 Old 03-21-2011, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amglow View Post

Newbie here. I've been reading a lot about the Sony optical block problems and took the plunge. My set has a large yellow oval in the middle and blue dots around the sides, so I disassembled my KDF-50WE655 the other day, including pulling the prism array. Sure enough, the blue light LCD matrix has a milky white discolored oval in the middle and the blue light polarizing filter has a large, rectangular, hazy, or lighter center.

I checked out Tri-State Module, as suggested, for optical block rebuild at $329. However, I see they now offer the Replacement Blue Polarizer and Replacement LCD Optical Block Panel at $80 a pop.

I read that replacing the optical block panel will throw off the blue light convergence and that it would require a mechanical alignment.

Has anyone tried replacing just the LCD optical block panel? Did you have to mechanically adjust the convergence? If so, how did you adjust and test the convergence to get it spot on?

I'm considering going this route, just to experiment and see if it can be done correctly. The question I am now mulling over is if I want to burn $160 and possibly have a none functional unit, or spend the $329 I have a good working TV again!!



Where did you read about the need to do a mechanical alignment after the optical block rebuilding? Is this a do it yourself job or does it require a technician. How is it done?

ericlhyman
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