2010 Mitsubishi 3D DLP Owners Thread (738/838 series) - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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Rear Projection Units > 2010 Mitsubishi 3D DLP Owners Thread (738/838 series)
Kurgan72316's Avatar Kurgan72316 10:58 AM 08-03-2010
Hi all, is there REALLY a difference in the PQ between the 638 and the 738 models or is it just about the internet connectivity of the 738? I'm going to buy one of the two 65 inch models this week, just wondering what you guys think.

ZachHD's Avatar ZachHD 03:05 PM 08-03-2010
Hey, thanks for the response. I thought that I would probably be in heaven with it, I just wasn't sure. It's cool that we both have similar RP TVs to compare to the DLPs. Thanks for your input and I look forward to seeing other posts about the people that will probably get them before I do. Always love to wait and see how others like it.

--Zach



Quote:
Originally Posted by MStem View Post

Zach, you would be really, really happy with your new MITS TV...

I have a Sony KDF-50 set, very similar to yours. I used it since obtaining it new in late 2006. In April of this year I picked up a MITS 65" 65737 for a small theater room in the lower level. Also got a Sony Blu-Ray player. While I still like my older Sony LCD there is no comparison... of course the new set is 1080p. (I don't use the new set for regular TV so I cannot give you an apples to apple comparison for viewing hi-def programming.

But I can tell you that once you feed a Blu-Ray signal to the new MITS it will blow your socks off. In particular, viewing "Avatar" on B-R media is just jaw-dropping stunning, trust me...

Good luck!


Justintoxicated's Avatar Justintoxicated 04:24 PM 08-03-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan72316 View Post

Hi all, is there REALLY a difference in the PQ between the 638 and the 738 models or is it just about the internet connectivity of the 738? I'm going to buy one of the two 65 inch models this week, just wondering what you guys think.

I think I'm the only one here with the 638. I think the biggest difference might be that I cannot get into the service menu on the 638. Since thats where all the color adjustments are you have allot less options for adjustments for the 638 vs the 738. It's probably the same TV with the additional options locked down and only editable through the service menu. I'm still debating on whether to return mine, Mitsu seems to not be very helpful in responding to my questions for helping me to get my problem taken care of. As of right now they have the worst tech support I have ever experienced.
mikeyari's Avatar mikeyari 06:35 PM 08-03-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justintoxicated View Post

I think I'm the only one here with the 638. I think the biggest difference might be that I cannot get into the service menu on the 638. Since thats where all the color adjustments are you have allot less options for adjustments for the 638 vs the 738. It's probably the same TV with the additional options locked down and only editable through the service menu. I'm still debating on whether to return mine, Mitsu seems to not be very helpful in responding to my questions for helping me to get my problem taken care of. As of right now they have the worst tech support I have ever experienced.

I personally would be sceptical about the 638. From what I`ve read the 638 lacks the 120Hz and is touted as being only 60Hz, which to me makes the 2009 models better.

The lack of access to the advaced picture controls or service menu is a major problem for me.

What you gain in the 638 is HDMI 1.4 spec inputs which will allow direct conversion of framed packed BD3D with a future firmware upgrade.

I personally think a new model should have all the features of the 2009 C9 models + the 1.4 HDMI`s, but you will have to get the 738 models to really upgrade IMHO.

What I`m confused about is how a 60Hz tv is going to do 3D at 60HZ per eye on a 60HZ tv...It seems that you would be at 30Hz per eye, unless hid the 120Hz processing to create a basic model, yet the model really has all the same processing.

I would ask Mits, At what Hz does this set run at in 3D mode, 60Hz per eye or 30Hz? If it runs at 60Hz per eye, then it`s a good set with a fewlimited options, if it runs at 30Hz per eye, I would return this set for an upgrade.
phillyaj's Avatar phillyaj 07:36 AM 08-04-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonhead11 View Post

I'm on V43+ 012.02. Let us know if there's any updates.

Called Mits....Hey said no update...Of course they want to know what problem I am having.... Uhmm..Well...Ummm...
phillyaj's Avatar phillyaj 07:40 AM 08-04-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaseman View Post

My harmony is clunky also...if you mess around with the little buttons around the LCD screen you will see where you can choose different components and then scroll through the various screens showing what the remote can control per-screen and by which button the activity is associated..mine is a harmony 700

Hopefully Harmony will have the correct information on their website once more of these sets become available.

I have a 65738 and I tried with my harmony One. Same issue. HDMI 1 seems to be the only one that works consistently. Here's a trick I found (I havn't programmed it yet into the harmony though). You can use the FAV function of the TV to switch inputs. I used the DEVICES function ont he Harmony to try it and it seems to work. So until Harmony fixes the codes....It might be the better way to go.
phillyaj's Avatar phillyaj 07:49 AM 08-04-2010
So Now that I finally have my 65738, I'm doing some research into the whole 3D thing. I know there is a Starter Pack out there for $300 or so, but I'm wondering what I can do without the Starter Pack. The manual says it's supports DLP-Link 3d Glasses which means you don't need an emitter, but what about the source? I think it says it will only support one type of 3d Format?? Ok, so now I need a 3D Blu-Ray player, Upgrade my comcast cable box/DVR (or go to TIVO and cable-card), and the Mits starter pack. NOt to mention I have 5 people in my family so I will probably need 3 extra sets of glasses.

Ouch...my brain hurts..

And the lack of YouTube on the VuDu service really sucks.. Plus my damn weather app never worked. (Not that I acutally use it all that much, but it's cool to show off).

So what to do? Just get the Starter-pack, go try and get some DLP-Link glasses? or Wait it out until 3d Comes down in price?
TViewer2000's Avatar TViewer2000 08:21 AM 08-04-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreaux View Post

Doesn't Vudu and Hulu offer HD movies? I know other VOD services do, like Roku which is offering Netflix movies.
I have an 82 inch and the Roku HD movies look quite good. Some as good as bluray and some not, it all depends on how the movie was shot, transferred etc.
It also depends on your bandwidth you have in your house, the greater the bandwidth the better the images.


I haven't seen any Hulu movies in HD but I didn't look that far into it. Vudu does and looks great, just like a bluray.
TViewer2000's Avatar TViewer2000 08:27 AM 08-04-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyaj View Post

I have a 65738 and I tried with my harmony One. Same issue. HDMI 1 seems to be the only one that works consistently. Here's a trick I found (I havn't programmed it yet into the harmony though). You can use the FAV function of the TV to switch inputs. I used the DEVICES function ont he Harmony to try it and it seems to work. So until Harmony fixes the codes....It might be the better way to go.


I have found that "currently" what you have to do is use method 3 for changing inputs on the harmony remote. Then do the following.
Activity 1: InputSelect
Activity 2: DirectionRight
Activity 3: Enter

Only problem with this method is that you have to tell the software what inputs are currently available on the input menu. If you add another input then the remote will be out of sync with the TV and will select the wrong input.
TViewer2000's Avatar TViewer2000 08:32 AM 08-04-2010
Not sure if this goes in the reciever area or not but here it goes. I have my Directv receiver hooked up to my Mits xx738 TV and the digital coaxial cable going into my V663 receiver. I was watching showtime in HD and the programming stated that it was encoded in 5.1 surround sound. My receiver stated it was only receiving stereo surround though. Will this TV pass the surround sound through the coaxial output or is that just there for OTA broadcasts?

I have it hooked into a coaxial input labeled CD on the v663, but I don't think that would effect how many channels it receives since it is a digital input and labels shouldn't determine that either. Anyone else notice this?
mikeyari's Avatar mikeyari 09:07 AM 08-04-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyaj View Post

So Now that I finally have my 65738, I'm doing some research into the whole 3D thing. I know there is a Starter Pack out there for $300 or so, but I'm wondering what I can do without the Starter Pack. The manual says it's supports DLP-Link 3d Glasses which means you don't need an emitter, but what about the source? I think it says it will only support one type of 3d Format?? Ok, so now I need a 3D Blu-Ray player, Upgrade my comcast cable box/DVR (or go to TIVO and cable-card), and the Mits starter pack. NOt to mention I have 5 people in my family so I will probably need 3 extra sets of glasses.

Ouch...my brain hurts..

And the lack of YouTube on the VuDu service really sucks.. Plus my damn weather app never worked. (Not that I acutally use it all that much, but it's cool to show off).

So what to do? Just get the Starter-pack, go try and get some DLP-Link glasses? or Wait it out until 3d Comes down in price?

phillyaj, I haven`t tried 3D on your set yet but I do know the draw back to DLP-Link glasses are that some people are seeing rainbows and or loosing sync when dark sceens are displayed. This is because the DLP-Link uses white burst from the screen to sync with the glasses. When dark images are displayed or too much ambient light is in the room, it can effect the sync.

for these reasons I would personally go with the Mits kit because you need 5 pairs oof glasses anyway.

Let`s added it up: 5 pairs of DLP-Links at $109.00 each plus adaptar $99=$648.00

Mits kit $399.00 icludes 2 pair of glasses + 4 pair SSG-2100AB $310(from me brand new sealed)=$710.00 you look at this you have 6 pairs of glasses that are exactly the same, syncing to the mits emtter with the converter for 62 dollars more.

2 pairs of extra glasses for $62 bucks is a steal and your not dealing with sync issues or rainbows.

If you go the DLP link route make sure to stick with thoes types of glasses because I hear reverse mode is required, but the Mits and Samsung glasses require standard mode.

The best route would have been an emitter and adaptar $165.00 + 4 pair of SSg2100AB ($310.00)=$475.00+ extra pair of glasses $85.00=$560.00

However, Mits seems to have stop selling the emitter seperately.
Justintoxicated's Avatar Justintoxicated 12:48 PM 08-04-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyari View Post

I personally would be sceptical about the 638. From what I`ve read the 638 lacks the 120Hz and is touted as being only 60Hz, which to me makes the 2009 models better.

The lack of access to the advaced picture controls or service menu is a major problem for me.

What you gain in the 638 is HDMI 1.4 spec inputs which will allow direct conversion of framed packed BD3D with a future firmware upgrade.

I personally think a new model should have all the features of the 2009 C9 models + the 1.4 HDMI`s, but you will have to get the 738 models to really upgrade IMHO.

What I`m confused about is how a 60Hz tv is going to do 3D at 60HZ per eye on a 60HZ tv...It seems that you would be at 30Hz per eye, unless hid the 120Hz processing to create a basic model, yet the model really has all the same processing.

I would ask Mits, At what Hz does this set run at in 3D mode, 60Hz per eye or 30Hz? If it runs at 60Hz per eye, then it`s a good set with a fewlimited options, if it runs at 30Hz per eye, I would return this set for an upgrade.

It's not 60hz or 120hz. From my interpretation of reading responses on this forum, no DLP is really 120hz, they all use wobulation. I don't know what smooth 120hz is really providing the user. The 638 does not have the smooth 120, but from my understanding most people leave it off anyways as it is more of a marketing gimic, and is not needed for 3d playback. Mitsu told me the 3d produced would be the same quality as the C9, but they don't even seem to know if the set is 60hz or 120hz. They have the most horrendous customer service EVER. Every question I asked the technician they would put me on hold for 5 minutes, do their google search and come back with an answer that was ambiguous and/or unhelpful. It would go something like this.

me: "Is the TV 120 hz".
them: "the 638 does not support the smooth 120 feature".
me: "If it is not 120 hz then how does it display 3d properly?"
them: "It will display checkboard format the same as last years C9, only you don't need an additional adapter"

This went the same for every other question as well. I am supposed to get another call back later today so we will see how that goes. My issue now is that since they shipped me the wrong model initially, and bing is no more, and I have a limited budget, I have to either deal with the 638 or return it and go back to using my 37" from 20 feet away. I seriously doubt I will be able to get a 60" tv for under $800 anytime soon again without Bing around, althnough I have been eyeing the wallmart proscan 55" LED LCD for $999
mikeyari's Avatar mikeyari 04:47 PM 08-04-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justintoxicated View Post

It's not 60hz or 120hz. From my interpretation of reading responses on this forum, no DLP is really 120hz, they all use wobulation. I don't know what smooth 120hz is really providing the user. The 638 does not have the smooth 120, but from my understanding most people leave it off anyways as it is more of a marketing gimic, and is not needed for 3d playback. Mitsu told me the 3d produced would be the same quality as the C9, but they don't even seem to know if the set is 60hz or 120hz. They have the most horrendous customer service EVER. Every question I asked the technician they would put me on hold for 5 minutes, do their google search and come back with an answer that was ambiguous and/or unhelpful. It would go something like this.

me: "Is the TV 120 hz".
them: "the 638 does not support the smooth 120 feature".
me: "If it is not 120 hz then how does it display 3d properly?"
them: "It will display checkboard format the same as last years C9, only you don't need an additional adapter"

This went the same for every other question as well. I am supposed to get another call back later today so we will see how that goes. My issue now is that since they shipped me the wrong model initially, and bing is no more, and I have a limited budget, I have to either deal with the 638 or return it and go back to using my 37" from 20 feet away. I seriously doubt I will be able to get a 60" tv for under $800 anytime soon again without Bing around, althnough I have been eyeing the wallmart proscan 55" LED LCD for $999

Yeah, they didn`t even answer the question at all. All they are saying the tv displays the checkerboad pattern like all the rest.

Primetime1 stated this:

It applies to the 738/838 series "only." This information is found here:

http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/pdf/specsheet-738.pdf
"For support of other 3D formats, such as top-bottom and frame packing (3D Blu Ray standard), Mitsubishi plans to provide a 3D software upgrade to Mitsubishi 3DTVs."

and here:

http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/pdf/OG-738-838.pdf (page 16)
"Please visit our website at www.mitsubishi-tv.com for information about future TV software updates that will broaden 3D signal compatibility."

when I spoke with a Rep at Magnolia BestBuy, he told me that the 60Hz Mits where not true 3D sets and said would want a 120Hz 738 set.


I never take too much stock in what store rep tell me though. I did remember reading on the forums the process of what happens when 3D is displayed. A guy stated that 120Hz doesn`t go into effect and the tv`s native wobulation going into effect creating 960x1080 half resolution or 1080p resolution or something.

During wobulation, if Hz don`t come into play, whyis my non 3D ready DLP tv with the TI Dark chip 4 not display 3D or maybe it can?

I have used Power DVD to display a checkboard 3D image that looks exactly like the tv`s in the store (doubled image). I buy the adapter and emitter and plug the emitter into the vesa plug on the adapter and run the HDMI out to the TV displaying the 3D checkerboard image from Powerdvd?

Should I be looking a 3D? Or do you have to plug the vesa plug into the tv and set the tv in 3D mode?

I thought 3D mode was only for white burst mode?
mikeyari's Avatar mikeyari 04:51 PM 08-04-2010
Yeah I been checking out a few LCD and LED sets like the proscan myself. As long as it`s 120Hz I think it`s a good deal.
Justintoxicated's Avatar Justintoxicated 04:59 PM 08-04-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyari View Post

Yeah, they didn`t even answer the question at all. All they are saying the tv displays the checkerboad pattern like all the rest.

Primetime1 stated this:

It applies to the 738/838 series "only." This information is found here:

http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/pdf/specsheet-738.pdf
"For support of other 3D formats, such as top-bottom and frame packing (3D Blu Ray standard), Mitsubishi plans to provide a 3D software upgrade to Mitsubishi 3DTVs."

and here:

http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/pdf/OG-738-838.pdf (page 16)
"Please visit our website at www.mitsubishi-tv.com for information about future TV software updates that will broaden 3D signal compatibility."

when I spoke with a Rep at Magnolia BestBuy, he told me that the 60Hz Mits where not true 3D sets and said would want a 120Hz 738 set.


I never take too much stock in what store rep tell me though. I did remember reading on the forums the process of what happens when 3D is displayed. A guy stated that 120Hz doesn`t go into effect and the tv`s native wobulation going into effect creating 960x1080 half resolution or 1080p resolution or something.

During wobulation, if Hz don`t come into play, whyis my non 3D ready DLP tv with the TI Dark chip 4 not display 3D or maybe it can?

I have used Power DVD to display a checkboard 3D image that looks exactly like the tv`s in the store (doubled image). I buy the adapter and emitter and plug the emitter into the vesa plug on the adapter and run the HDMI out to the TV displaying the 3D checkerboard image from Powerdvd?

Should I be looking a 3D? Or do you have to plug the vesa plug into the tv and set the tv in 3D mode?

I thought 3D mode was only for white burst mode?

Rep never called me back
I don't trust ANYTHING the reps ever say at best buy though. In fact, I think Mits is playing the same marketing BS. From my understanding the 3D is the same as last years C9. This makes the most sense. I don't think it is a 60Hz or else the other DLP's are not truly 120Hz either. It must be the same damn thing. From my understanding 3d can work at 60Hz but you will get a headache and the image will flicker. I they will be facing a Lawsuit if they are marketing a non 3D capable TV as 3D ready.
gtgray's Avatar gtgray 05:21 PM 08-04-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justintoxicated View Post

Rep never called me back
I don't trust ANYTHING the reps ever say at best buy though. In fact, I think Mits is playing the same marketing BS. From my understanding the 3D is the same as last years C9. This makes the most sense. I don't think it is a 60Hz or else the other DLP's are not truly 120Hz either. It must be the same damn thing. From my understanding 3d can work at 60Hz but you will get a headache and the image will flicker. I they will be facing a Lawsuit if they are marketing a non 3D capable TV as 3D ready.

I read your messages and then I think, hmm he must be Justintoxicated again. There is no difference in how the TVs work internally. All the new Mits TVs would do is what the adapter does on the older set without need of the adapter, that is assuming the hinted at firmware upgrades come down the pipe... speaking of pipes, is that your intoxicant of choice? There is no misrepresentation on Mit's part. There is without quesion an ongoing inability to understand things in abundant evidence.
gtgray's Avatar gtgray 05:28 PM 08-04-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by TViewer2000 View Post

Not sure if this goes in the reciever area or not but here it goes. I have my Directv receiver hooked up to my Mits xx738 TV and the digital coaxial cable going into my V663 receiver. I was watching showtime in HD and the programming stated that it was encoded in 5.1 surround sound. My receiver stated it was only receiving stereo surround though. Will this TV pass the surround sound through the coaxial output or is that just there for OTA broadcasts?

I have it hooked into a coaxial input labeled CD on the v663, but I don't think that would effect how many channels it receives since it is a digital input and labels shouldn't determine that either. Anyone else notice this?


OTA is a given, I have seen multi-channel on cable broadcasts sent out the digital port on modern tvs.. but that was when the internal tuner was doing the decode. Don't know about Direct TV over hdmi... to the set.. This would not be a Mits issue.
Justintoxicated's Avatar Justintoxicated 06:38 PM 08-04-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

I read your messages and then I think, hmm he must be Justintoxicated again. There is no difference in how the TVs work internally. All the new Mits TVs would do is what the adapter does on the older set without need of the adapter, that is assuming the hinted at firmware upgrades come down the pipe... speaking of pipes, is that your intoxicant of choice? There is no misrepresentation on Mit's part. There is without quesion an ongoing inability to understand things in abundant evidence.

ORLY? Then why can't they tell me if the TV is 120hz or 60hz? Why do they tell me it is an upgraded version of the C9 when it is clearly missing features that are available to C9 owners? If the answer is so obvious, is then can you please tell me if the 638 is 60Hz or 120Hz? Most websites list it as 60Hz. But then how can it be 3d ready?
gtgray's Avatar gtgray 10:45 PM 08-04-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justintoxicated View Post

ORLY? Then why can't they tell me if the TV is 120hz or 60hz? Why do they tell me it is an upgraded version of the C9 when it is clearly missing features that are available to C9 owners? If the answer is so obvious, is then can you please tell me if the 638 is 60Hz or 120Hz? Most websites list it as 60Hz. But then how can it be 3d ready?

They are all both 60hz or 120Hz depending on your language. These sets are all wobulated. That means that they shift over one pixel. They display 960x1080 or a half of the horizontal pixels in a 120th of a second. In the next 120th of a second they shiftover one pixel and display the 960x 1080 or other half of the pixels. So call it 120HZ yes, call it 60 HZ yes.

What they can't do is diplay a full 1920x1080 frame and all those pixels a 120 times a second none of them, no matter what they call them. In fact because they overscan you can never see all the pixels anyway. Aproximately 5% of the pixels are projected beyond the edge of the screen. Smooth motion and al that are hocus points has to do using what is essentially some kind of interpolation of the original 24fps or 30 fps or 60fps data sets during using these 120 hz half frame operations.

Understand DLP as it is implemented on a TV is a native 960 x1080 120 hz technology that when wobulated creates in your eyes/brain the same effect as seeing a 1920x1080 60 HZ display. That is a sufficiently high frame rate to reproduce all the traditional 2D formats. When 3d is done on a Wobulated 3D ready DLP the mirrors are flashed in each 960x1080 half frame in such a way that a 3d sterescopic effect is achieved. That format is called checkboard.

The procerssor and the memory is much faster than the mirrors on the chip and as result DLP can produce a vey high quality 3D stereoscopic image. There is perceived resolution and acutal resolution. If one technology produces an actual 3D resolution of 1920x1080 pixels 60 times a second per eye and another technology produces 960x1080 pixels 60 times a second per eye one might be tempted to automatically assume that the technology that produces the highest actual resolution will produce the highest perceived resolution... this would be true if everything else is always equally but we know that everything else is seldom if ever equal.

The proof is in the pudding. Yes, wobulated DLP can only produce the lower of the two actual resolutions described above. But for a number of reasons, the perceived 3D resolution with DLP is very high, many will say it produces the higher perceived resolution in 3D desptite, the lower specification. DLP properly implemented produces a very high quality stereoscopic effect. You really need to understand that we are dealing with an optical illusions when we watch content on display technologies, esecially when we get to stereoscopic 3d. It is the quality of the illusions that matters not necessarily the actual resoltuion.

It reminds of the commercial where the guy brags about his audiophile tube amp that reproduces frequencies that only dogs can hear. I think you should take off your "Justintoxicated hat" and try on the one labeled "thinking cap) for a little bit and go read about DLP instead of going on and on in these forums with the endless concerns you have.

Right now on consumer television no matter what brand or model, whether Panasonic, LG, Sony, and others may tell you otherwise... DLP is what's happening in 3D... check the 3D threads. The sets are big, 3D needs a big display to produce a reasonable stage for 3D. On DLP the pixels turn off and on the fastest, so you can less ghosting and other artifacts and less crosstalk.

You seem to be extremely focused on whether your set is 60hz or 120hz. If you will just understand that they are all the same regardless if it is a halo product like the 82838 and 75" LaserVue or your entry level 60638. They all use a wobulated DLP DMD chipset.. whether Mits makes available a gimmick like smooth 120HZ on the 638 models is meaningless, because it is a useless gimmick it will only make changes in the source that are most likely not inline with the director's intent and will negative and objectionable effects. Anyone with half an idea what they are doing will have that feature turned off on their sets if it is there.

I know nothing about the 638, but it entirely within the realm of possibility for Mits to not give access to 3D on the 638 if they so chose, if the sets did not have this 120HZ capability I have painstakingly described you could not 3D on your set. Based on my quick check is is listed as 3D ready just like all the other sets for the last several years. So what the heck is it that you still don't understand? You are spinning your brain in circles over nothing, there is some image processing crap that Mits usues to differentiate models at the different price points... most of this stuff is useles and acutally counterproductive whether it be deep field imager, 120HZ smooth motion or god knows what.

There a 3 things of note that really make a difference.
1) an iris found only on the 838 and early year equivalents
2) Perfect Color found on at least 738 and 838 and early year equivalents
3)Perfect Tint found on the 838 and LaserVue and early year eqivalents
4) One can debate the usefulness of the Advanced modes where ever they are found.

If you don't like your set and you don't like Mitsubishi and you don't like your dealer... go out and return it if you can, if you can't unload it, take the a couple hundred dollar loss and move on. Please I don't know about others but I am having a very hard time staying patient with what comes across to me at least as hopelessly uninformed whining.
jaseman's Avatar jaseman 10:08 AM 08-05-2010
For those who want to know...here it is...
I have an 82738. I have calibrated it with the Patched.exe found here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ight=dve+color

I also used the DVE HD Basics blu-ray. You do not need the DVE disk if you just use the patched.exe referenced above. The Patched .exe is EASIER to navigate than DVE! I also used the HCFR Windows 2.1 version found here: http://www.homecinema-fr.com/ColorHCFR/index_en.php

I also used the X-Rite Eye-one LT which can be found here http://www.amazon.com/X-Rite-Display.../dp/B000NRODT4

Out of the box the natural setting is actually very close to being calibrated, according to my set and the software I used to take the initial readings. Using all the tools listed here running on a Samsung X-360 laptop with Windows-7 on a solid state hard drive, I was able to achieve nearly perfect calibration within two hours. Of course I have done this before so it may take you a little longer if you have to read through all the instructions.

I was able to get a 2.22 Gamma, very, very good grey-scale, and even the three primary and three secondary colors are so close as to be spot on. The three primaries needed very little adjustment ((after the initial calibration)). Two of the three secondaries needed a little more tweeking ((after the intial calibration))...Cyan and Magenta were the two needing a little more adjustments. I was able to adjust them individually using the Advanced menus on this TV.

Using the Advanced settings on the 82738 here are my numbers. Of course YMMV!

Picture Mode = ADV
Deep Field Imager = ON
Super Resolution = HIGH
Edge Enhance = ON
Video Noise = HIGH
Brightness = 45
Contrast = 60
Color = 31
Tint = 31
Sharpness = 10
Gamma = 2.2
Red High = 933
Green High = 970
Blue High = 1023
Red Low = -1
Green Low = 1
Blue Low = -1
Blue Only = OFF (obviously)
Red Adjust = 16, 0, 0
Green Adjust = 0, 17, 0
Blue Adjust = 0, 0, 15
Magenta Adjust = 16, 5, 15
Cyan Adjust = 0, 20, 15
Yellow Adjust = 15, 15, 0
Film Mode = AUTO
Smooth 120 = ON
Lamp Energy = STANDARD

After these adjustments the picture is perfect. And I do mean perfect! I didn't think any TV could be adjusted so close to the REC 709 with user friendly menus! High Def from cable looks stunning. Blu-Ray looks fabulous. (Actually it looks stunning also but I thought I would use a different descriptive term for the Blu..)

I have an Oppo BDP-83 running HDMI into a Denon AVR-790 with all HDMI 1080 processing turned OFF in the Denon. The cable also runs into the Denon. All HD signals from the Oppo and the cable are not processed by the Denon. Oppo is set to 1080p 24 frames and the cable is set to 1080i. The TV does all the upscaling of the 1080i from cable and does nothing to the signal from the Oppo. I did not want to do any scaling in the Denon at all so that it would not touch the superior scaling that the Oppo does.

All the settings in this list were used as listed for the calibration. After the calibration some things can be adjusted per taste..such as the Sharpness, Brightness, Contrast, and even the Gamma if you want to. While changing any of these settings will alter the calibrated specs in the software readings...it will NOT actually change the calibration if you return these settings back to what is on the list. Messing with the color settings after the calibration WILL change the calibration!

The other enhanced settings such as Video Noise, Edge Enhance, Super Resolution, Deep Field Imager, Film Mode, and Smooth 120 were all used for the calibration and can be adjusted per taste afterwards. Personally I think the picture looks better when these enhanced settings are in use. As for the Smooth 120....well, I see really no difference with it on or off. I am not doing any 3D stuff so maybe it's more important for 3D???

Now I know there are those who say that you cannot use someone else's settings and expect to get a good image. While this "may" be true I still thought it would be nice for those who DO NOT have the desire, or the ability to do their own calibration, to have some settings they could try. If it looks like crap then just do a reset in the Advanced menu! If you like these settings, or some that you come up with on your own then WRITE THEM DOWN before you ever hit that reset button!!!! The reset will put it back in torch mode and completely clear out your Advanced settings.

So here it is...take it or leave it!
rxpert2's Avatar rxpert2 11:44 AM 08-05-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaseman View Post



So here it is...take it or leave it!

Jaseman,
This is awesome ! I so wanted to take the time to calibrate mine, but don't have any spare time. I barely have time to watch TV, let alone calibrate it. I did really like my picture right out of the box, with just some minor, non-professional adjustments, more to my personal preferences rather than to any scale.
I'm gonna try your settings just for giggles and see if it looks better. I love that we do have that "reset" button that fixes all our mistakes.

One question. People seem to say that the hours you have on your lamp affect the picture, any some of the videophiles here get theirs recalibrated every couple hundred hours (wish I had their kind of money).
So, how new is your TV ? How many hours on your lamp ? My TV is brand new, so I wonder if we will get the same results, unless yours is also relatively new. Should be an interesting experiment.
Justintoxicated's Avatar Justintoxicated 11:47 AM 08-05-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

They are all both 60hz or 120Hz depending on your language. These sets are all wobulated. That means that they shift over one pixel. They display 960x1080 or a half of the horizontal pixels in a 120th of a second. In the next 120th of a second they shiftover one pixel and display the 960x 1080 or other half of the pixels. So call it 120HZ yes, call it 60 HZ yes.

What they can't do is diplay a full 1920x1080 frame and all those pixels a 120 times a second none of them, no matter what they call them. In fact because they overscan you can never see all the pixels anyway. Aproximately 5% of the pixels are projected beyond the edge of the screen. Smooth motion and al that are hocus points has to do using what is essentially some kind of interpolation of the original 24fps or 30 fps or 60fps data sets during using these 120 hz half frame operations.

Understand DLP as it is implemented on a TV is a native 960 x1080 120 hz technology that when wobulated creates in your eyes/brain the same effect as seeing a 1920x1080 60 HZ display. That is a sufficiently high frame rate to reproduce all the traditional 2D formats. When 3d is done on a Wobulated 3D ready DLP the mirrors are flashed in each 960x1080 half frame in such a way that a 3d sterescopic effect is achieved. That format is called checkboard.

The procerssor and the memory is much faster than the mirrors on the chip and as result DLP can produce a vey high quality 3D stereoscopic image. There is perceived resolution and acutal resolution. If one technology produces an actual 3D resolution of 1920x1080 pixels 60 times a second per eye and another technology produces 960x1080 pixels 60 times a second per eye one might be tempted to automatically assume that the technology that produces the highest actual resolution will produce the highest perceived resolution... this would be true if everything else is always equally but we know that everything else is seldom if ever equal.

The proof is in the pudding. Yes, wobulated DLP can only produce the lower of the two actual resolutions described above. But for a number of reasons, the perceived 3D resolution with DLP is very high, many will say it produces the higher perceived resolution in 3D desptite, the lower specification. DLP properly implemented produces a very high quality stereoscopic effect. You really need to understand that we are dealing with an optical illusions when we watch content on display technologies, esecially when we get to stereoscopic 3d. It is the quality of the illusions that matters not necessarily the actual resoltuion.

It reminds of the commercial where the guy brags about his audiophile tube amp that reproduces frequencies that only dogs can hear. I think you should take off your "Justintoxicated hat" and try on the one labeled "thinking cap) for a little bit and go read about DLP instead of going on and on in these forums with the endless concerns you have.

Right now on consumer television no matter what brand or model, whether Panasonic, LG, Sony, and others may tell you otherwise... DLP is what's happening in 3D... check the 3D threads. The sets are big, 3D needs a big display to produce a reasonable stage for 3D. On DLP the pixels turn off and on the fastest, so you can less ghosting and other artifacts and less crosstalk.

You seem to be extremely focused on whether your set is 60hz or 120hz. If you will just understand that they are all the same regardless if it is a halo product like the 82838 and 75" LaserVue or your entry level 60638. They all use a wobulated DLP DMD chipset.. whether Mits makes available a gimmick like smooth 120HZ on the 638 models is meaningless, because it is a useless gimmick it will only make changes in the source that are most likely not inline with the director's intent and will negative and objectionable effects. Anyone with half an idea what they are doing will have that feature turned off on their sets if it is there.

I know nothing about the 638, but it entirely within the realm of possibility for Mits to not give access to 3D on the 638 if they so chose, if the sets did not have this 120HZ capability I have painstakingly described you could not 3D on your set. Based on my quick check is is listed as 3D ready just like all the other sets for the last several years. So what the heck is it that you still don't understand? You are spinning your brain in circles over nothing, there is some image processing crap that Mits usues to differentiate models at the different price points... most of this stuff is useles and acutally counterproductive whether it be deep field imager, 120HZ smooth motion or god knows what.

There a 3 things of note that really make a difference.
1) an iris found only on the 838 and early year equivalents
2) Perfect Color found on at least 738 and 838 and early year equivalents
3)Perfect Tint found on the 838 and LaserVue and early year eqivalents
4) One can debate the usefulness of the Advanced modes where ever they are found.

If you don't like your set and you don't like Mitsubishi and you don't like your dealer... go out and return it if you can, if you can't unload it, take the a couple hundred dollar loss and move on. Please I don't know about others but I am having a very hard time staying patient with what comes across to me at least as hopelessly uninformed whining.

Thank you for the very informative post and making the information clear and readable. I was thinking that the ability to display 3d had something to do with the wobulation and checkerboard format. However I see no need to be extremely rude either. A quick google search will reveal that 638 models are often listed as 60hz while smooth 120hz models are listed as 120hz. This leads people to believe that (wobulation aside) the 638s refresh rate is 1/2 of the other models. Mitsubishi's documentation on their product does nothing to clarify the difference. You ask me to read about DLP technology in general, but that does not necessarily answer questions about a specific model. Going to the source (Mitsubishi) has been all but useless. The reason why is it hard to determin wether or not to keep the 638 is due to many factors.

1) I was supposed to get the C9
2) Mitsu Told me this is an upgraded set
3) Yet I'm missing features that the C9 has.
4) I'm not able to get into the service menu (Although someday the codes might become available?)
5) I have geometry issues I posted pictures of but no one has provided feedback on if they are typical or serious.
6) Returing for the correct model may invalidate any Cashback with Bing
7) Can't wait for another great deal because cashback no longer exists (missed the deal on the 73" C9 for $850) so I would not be able to bring myself to buying a 73" for current prices. (Nor can I afford it).
8) Hundreds of dollars loss is not acceptable in my personal situation right now. I guess I don't meet the typical AVS forum members budget constraints.
jaseman's Avatar jaseman 11:55 AM 08-05-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by rxpert2 View Post

Jaseman,
This is awesome ! I so wanted to take the time to calibrate mine, but don't have any spare time. I barely have time to watch TV, let alone calibrate it. I did really like my picture right out of the box, with just some minor, non-professional adjustments, more to my personal preferences rather than to any scale.
I'm gonna try your settings just for giggles and see if it looks better. I love that we do have that "reset" button that fixes all our mistakes.

One question. People seem to say that the hours you have on your lamp affect the picture, any some of the videophiles here get theirs recalibrated every couple hundred hours (wish I had their kind of money).
So, how new is your TV ? How many hours on your lamp ? My TV is brand new, so I wonder if we will get the same results, unless yours is also relatively new. Should be an interesting experiment.

I'm glad someone appreciates the gesture! I have had the set for about three weeks now. I don't have the exact hours on the lamp but I am at work all day and on some days it doesn't even get turned on so it can't be many. I have another DLP that is now over five years old. It is on it's second lamp. I calibrated it when it was new and the picture still looks great even with the new lamp. Although the settings may drift over time due to the lamp aging, I really don't think the settings will change that much. With the old set it would be a pain to tweek the settings so I have not done so. With this new set tweeking is EASY so I will be much more inclined to do so over time. But I am betting that the settings will not change all that much to worry about. Let me know how the settings look on your set! I am assuming that you have the 82" also?
rxpert2's Avatar rxpert2 12:48 PM 08-05-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaseman View Post

I am assuming that you have the 82" also?


Acutally a 65" (65838). Will size alter any of the settings ?
yorknh's Avatar yorknh 12:57 PM 08-05-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaseman View Post

I'm glad someone appreciates the gesture!

While I don't particularly care about your numbers, I am very excited that you were able to achieve what you describe as very good results and without having the hassle of getting into service menus. I'm supposed to get my 73738 tomorrow, and now I'm even more excited.
jaseman's Avatar jaseman 01:16 PM 08-05-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by rxpert2 View Post

Acutally a 65" (65838). Will size alter any of the settings ?

I suppose it could alter the settings. I bet the image is a little brighter on the 65 over the 82 which could have an effect on Gamma/grey scale. But even so, if you are using the built in setting, such as "natural" then anything you do in the Advanced settings will not hurt. Give it a try and see if it improves the picture.
jaseman's Avatar jaseman 01:28 PM 08-05-2010
I just wanted to add that when using the HCFR Windows 2.1 version of the software that I didn't realize that you could watch the color reference dots move around in real-time on the CIE chart. As I was tweeking the color primaries and secondaries I kept the CIE chart on top and could watch as the little dots that represent the different colors move closer in to the reference points...which was very cool! Then after making a change you could wait a few seconds and the dot would move, then you could just point to it with the cursor and it would tell you where you were in relation to the spec for that color as well as how far away you still were from the reference point. I guess I missed that the other times I did a clibration.

I have to say this to all who are responsible for creating and/or providing this FREE software...THANK YOU!!!! Also, cudos to those who provided the pattern software.
dreaux's Avatar dreaux 02:43 PM 08-05-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaseman View Post

I just wanted to add that when using the HCFR Windows 2.1 version of the software that I didn't realize that you could watch the color reference dots move around in real-time on the CIE chart. As I was tweeking the color primaries and secondaries I kept the CIE chart on top and could watch as the little dots that represent the different colors move closer in to the reference points...which was very cool! Then after making a change you could wait a few seconds and the dot would move, then you could just point to it with the cursor and it would tell you where you were in relation to the spec for that color as well as how far away you still were from the reference point. I guess I missed that the other times I did a clibration.

I have to say this to all who are responsible for creating and/or providing this FREE software...THANK YOU!!!! Also, cudos to those who provided the pattern software.

We appreciate your hard work. I hope to try the settings soon, although I have the 82837 I think most of your under the hood settings would apply?
gtgray's Avatar gtgray 04:25 PM 08-05-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by rxpert2 View Post

Acutally a 65" (65838). Will size alter any of the settings ?

Porbably... you would expect to find differences from one set to another in the same size and since the same lamp is used regardless of size, you have a lot less light to work with on an 82". On 2009 sets it is quite difficult to get them calibrated properly even though the controls are the same.
gtgray's Avatar gtgray 04:30 PM 08-05-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaseman View Post

I just wanted to add that when using the HCFR Windows 2.1 version of the software that I didn't realize that you could watch the color reference dots move around in real-time on the CIE chart. As I was tweeking the color primaries and secondaries I kept the CIE chart on top and could watch as the little dots that represent the different colors move closer in to the reference points...which was very cool! Then after making a change you could wait a few seconds and the dot would move, then you could just point to it with the cursor and it would tell you where you were in relation to the spec for that color as well as how far away you still were from the reference point. I guess I missed that the other times I did a clibration.

I have to say this to all who are responsible for creating and/or providing this FREE software...THANK YOU!!!! Also, cudos to those who provided the pattern software.

Getting the color at the right point on the CIE triangle is usually not the problem. You can generally get the primaries and secondaries pretty close, but can you get the brightness at the correct level for each color when you get x,y right? How many ft lamberts was your set making 100 IRE and does your set clip any colors as it moves above white? HCFR doesn't use CIE1994 on color does it ?
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