2010 Mitsubishi 3D DLP Owners Thread (738/838 series) - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 8811 Old 08-09-2010, 10:23 AM
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I know the Internet apps are kinda lame...but is anyone else having a problem with the VUDU weather app? Mine blows up and kicks me back to the main INTERNET screen.
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post #362 of 8811 Old 08-09-2010, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

It IS in the advanced mode. Read the manual.

I have the TV and the manual(which is only the basic version), there is nothing in it. It just says to go to mitsubishi for the full version which there isn't. Do you know where it is in the TV because I've been to every menu and there is no option for ISFccc.

*update - Mitsubishi said the full version of the manual will be out soon. They have not uploaded it to there site yet due to the TV being so new. They said it is just being finished.
I found out the ISFccc is in the service menu, it's not in the regular advance menu. Everything I need is in the full version of the manual which is being sent out to me.
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post #363 of 8811 Old 08-09-2010, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Nofears View Post

I'm not sure if the Dark Detailer actually gives you control options over its functionality or not. There was a lot of discussion about this feature in the xx737/xx837 thread. I believe in the 09 models there was an option to turn it off in the advanced menu but it always turned itself back on after leaving the menu (or something like that).

Maybe in the 2010 models they didn't give any control over it. Mitsu probably figured if you were buying the Diamond model that had the dark detailer then why would you want to turn it off (?).

According to Mitsubishi everything they listed is/has a option to be controlled. The Dark Detailer is suppose to be an option but maybe u r right, they could have just took out the controls. Ill find out soon enough.

*Update - Mitsubishi said there is a option for Dark Detailer but it's in the advance menu(service menu), it is turned on by default. Once the full version manual comes out, you will be able to get in there unless you you already know how to.
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post #364 of 8811 Old 08-09-2010, 10:52 AM
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Harmony Remote issues???? A fix????

I was poking around the Logitec website and found the following document. It says it appllies to the 737 models but might be worth a shot[
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post #365 of 8811 Old 08-09-2010, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaseman View Post

When you say the "guide" button, are you talking about the cable guide that shows what's on each channel??

I have Charter Communications and a Motorola box..don't have the model number of the box here at work...and I have it set to 1080i for all broadcasts\\channels and when I hit the guide button on my remote to bring up the channel guide it pops up immediately with no delay. I have the 82738. Now when I change from cable to Blu-ray there is a delay, but that can be expected. Also, if I change from 1080i say to 720p or something else there is a delay, but here again that is a major change on the HDMI source that the TV needs to reset itself to...this is expected. I think what I am doing different than some of the other people here is I am using one HDMI out from my receiver to the TV and no matter what is coming in on HDMI into the receiver the TV knows no difference. I use only one HDMI IN on the TV and have it calibrated that way so you don't have to calibrate for different sources or inputs. I think this is the best way to do it...in my opinion.

Ah I just picked up on something you have the 82738, the set without the iris, that might account for some of the difference in screen brightness between what your set measures and mine.


I also use a single HDMI port, no video goes to the reciever. I have DVDO Duo Video Processor it has a separate HDMI audio out port. Everything the TV sees is on the same HDMI input and is always 1080P before it gets to the TV. I have both a Tivo HD and Windows Media Center PC and they are both relatively fast at channel changes, especially the Tivo.

Just another blank signature.
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post #366 of 8811 Old 08-09-2010, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

Ah I just picked up on something you have the 82738, the set without the iris, that might account for some of the difference in screen brightness between what your set measures and mine.


I also use a single HDMI port, no video goes to the reciever. I have DVDO Duo Video Processor it has a separate HDMI audio out port. Everything the TV sees is on the same HDMI input and is always 1080P before it gets to the TV. I have both a Tivo HD and Windows Media Center PC and they are both relatively fast at channel changes, especially the Tivo.

Are you saying that your set is DARKER than mine??? Mine is plenty bright for the type of room it is in...completely dark most of the time...but I cannot imagine the set being much darker, especially when the lights are on. The more I hear about the 838 series the more I think the 738 series is the better buy...unless you need all the built in speakers.

As for the single HDMI port that you use on the set, I can only imagine that your source feed from the DVDO Duo Video Processor is what is causing the delay, or along with the set itself, between the two of them there is a longer delay than there should be. All my video goes through my Denon AVR-790 and there is no delay when changing channels, bringing up the guide, or skipping tracs on a blu-ray or DVD.

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post #367 of 8811 Old 08-09-2010, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

Getting the color at the right point on the CIE triangle is usually not the problem. You can generally get the primaries and secondaries pretty close, but can you get the brightness at the correct level for each color when you get x,y right? How many ft lamberts was your set making 100 IRE and does your set clip any colors as it moves above white? HCFR doesn't use CIE1994 on color does it ?

So this past weekend I finally had a chance to calibrate my 65738 with a new i1 Display Lt that I recently purchased. I'm new the the whole calibration thing, but I wanted to learn a little and see what the thing could do. I used AVSHD 709 patterns along with Greyscale Color Calibration for Dummies to guide me through it. Results were pretty positive with the possible exception of the above-mentioned brightness. I was able to get each color x,y quite accurate, but the Y value is a different story. With my primaries set close to Rec709 theoretical, my yellow and magenta are way off. Yellow is a ~ +40% delta luma and magenta is ~ -30% delta luma. If your primaries are close, is there any way to adjust this, or is it just a product of the TV?

Melonhead
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post #368 of 8811 Old 08-09-2010, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by phillyaj View Post

Harmony Remote issues???? A fix????

I was poking around the Logitec website and found the following document. It says it appllies to the 737 models but might be worth a shot[

I saw that document as well, but have no idea how to teach the harmony remote to detect 2 button pushes. It only looks for one. Maybe there is a way, but I haven't found out.
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post #369 of 8811 Old 08-09-2010, 05:29 PM
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"no idea how to teach the harmony remote to detect 2 button pushes."

Couple of ways. Often times just the regular "teach" process works. The Harmony will take/learn two key strokes most of the time. If the usual method doesn't work you use the regular teaching/learning process but tell the Software you are teaching it in "Raw" mode. Sometimes "Raw" mode will pickup and keep track of two key inputs better then the default mode. I have an 880 so when I can't get the One to learn two key strokes I'll make a two step sequence for the 880, program that sequence to one key on the 880, put the One in learn mode, hit the sequence on the 880, the One learns the sequence as one command. I've done up to three key strokes that way. Four however does not seem to work.

It reads way more complicated than it is.

The best fix is to contact Logitech. They are very responsive to this kind of thing via email.

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post #370 of 8811 Old 08-09-2010, 09:00 PM
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I have a 73833 and purchased the 82738 to replace it. The 82738 was delivered today, so I did a side-by-side comparison of the two units connected to a single source.

Much to my surprise, the 82738 was very washed out with dark areas that were gray instead of black. Plus the top 6 inches and the sidemost 6 inches were noticeably dimmer than the rest of the image.

I turned both TVs off, and was even more surprised. The 73833 screen looked almost black, and the 82738 screen was a dark gray. So apparently the screen material has changed.

I wonder if the 82" uses a "less dark" screen to deal with the larger illumination area? It certainly seems to affect the final image when the TV is turned on.

I played with various TV settings, but given the difference in screen shade when the TVs are off, I don't think it is the TV settings.

So I returned the 82738. So bummed!
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post #371 of 8811 Old 08-10-2010, 03:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TViewer2000 View Post

I saw that document as well, but have no idea how to teach the harmony remote to detect 2 button pushes. It only looks for one. Maybe there is a way, but I haven't found out.

I have the 73738 and a Harmony One and this method works. When you put the TV remote in the mode as described in the document, you will notice the power button stays lit when you push Input. It will stay lit until you push fast forward (HDMI2). Do this at the TV and it will go to HDMI2.

Now go to your Harmony program, Devices, TV, learn IR. Scroll to the bottom where it says Learn New Command. I typed in HDMI2(1) to differentiate from the HDMI2 already listed. When you want the Harmony to learn, press (on the TV remote) Input (power button stays lit), then press Fast Forward. The power light will go off. If it doesn't take, do it again. This also works for HDMI3 except you push Input, Play. Since HDMI1 works you don't have to deal with it.
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post #372 of 8811 Old 08-10-2010, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texasrattler View Post

I have the TV and the manual(which is only the basic version), there is nothing in it. It just says to go to mitsubishi for the full version which there isn't. Do you know where it is in the TV because I've been to every menu and there is no option for ISFccc.

*update - Mitsubishi said the full version of the manual will be out soon. They have not uploaded it to there site yet due to the TV being so new. They said it is just being finished.
I found out the ISFccc is in the service menu, it's not in the regular advance menu. Everything I need is in the full version of the manual which is being sent out to me.

Here it is, pg 22 of the user manual. If this isn't what you have, PM me with your email address and I'll send it to you.

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post #373 of 8811 Old 08-10-2010, 04:38 AM
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vrvideo; New isn't always better. I would agree with your assumption. Do you really need a larger screen?
Sounds as 82" is pushing the capabilities of the optics. Question is, how does the same size screen compare??

texasrattler; The "Dark Detailer" is the iris and it can't be turned off. At least in older models. AFAIC, it's a minus, causing flickering/flashing under certain conditions. It also is a pain since you have to compromise on contrast/brightness settings between a bright scene and a dark scene. I have wanted to disconnect the iris, but never did when I cleaned the optics on my 732 series set from '07. I don't know if the set will fire up w/o this connected.
You can temporary shut it off in the Service Menu, but it doesn't 'stick' when you exit that Menu.

If you scroll down to post #17, this will show a earlier DD;
http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/...d.php?t=581146

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post #374 of 8811 Old 08-10-2010, 06:17 AM
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Thanks short...

It could be that the original tv's remote is not sending two commands but rather by changing the remote's mode and hitting the input key it is changing the one command the FF/REW/etc. send.

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post #375 of 8811 Old 08-10-2010, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonhead11 View Post

With my primaries set close to Rec709 theoretical, my yellow and magenta are way off. Yellow is a ~ +40% delta luma and magenta is ~ -30% delta luma. If your primaries are close, is there any way to adjust this, or is it just a product of the TV?

Melonhead

If you look at my calibrated settings you will see that I had to make some adjustments also to the secondary colors. The controls are listed right there in the Advanced menu. They work very well.

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post #376 of 8811 Old 08-10-2010, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by vrvideo View Post

I have a 72833 and purchased the 82738 to replace it. The 82738 was delivered today, so I did a side-by-side comparison of the two units connected to a single source.

...

So I returned the 82738. So bummed!

Whoa, that's not good...
Did you at least make sure the settings were somewhat similar?
Did you try one of the other folks settings to see if the picture improved?

This is indeed a major bummer to hear as I'm gettin ready to purchase one of the 82" sets.
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post #377 of 8811 Old 08-10-2010, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jaseman View Post

If you look at my calibrated settings you will see that I had to make some adjustments also to the secondary colors. The controls are listed right there in the Advanced menu. They work very well.

Do me a favor and rerun your primaries and secondaries at 100% for your settings and see what your delta E or delta luma values are for each color. I'm assuming your x,y values are close, but how good are your Y values?
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post #378 of 8811 Old 08-10-2010, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by short circuit1 View Post

I have the 73738 and a Harmony One and this method works. When you put the TV remote in the mode as described in the document, you will notice the power button stays lit when you push Input. It will stay lit until you push fast forward (HDMI2). Do this at the TV and it will go to HDMI2.

Now go to your Harmony program, Devices, TV, learn IR. Scroll to the bottom where it says Learn New Command. I typed in HDMI2(1) to differentiate from the HDMI2 already listed. When you want the Harmony to learn, press (on the TV remote) Input (power button stays lit), then press Fast Forward. The power light will go off. If it doesn't take, do it again. This also works for HDMI3 except you push Input, Play. Since HDMI1 works you don't have to deal with it.

So do you press Input and FastForward while pointing at the Harmony or do you press the input then point the remote towards the harmony and press the fastforward button?
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post #379 of 8811 Old 08-10-2010, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Melonhead11 View Post

Do me a favor and rerun your primaries and secondaries at 100% for your settings and see what your delta E or delta luma values are for each color. I'm assuming your x,y values are close, but how good are your Y values?

What do you mean run them at 100%? I followed all the instructions as written. I was able to bring all colors and gray scale to near perfect. The picture is amazing. Someone else used my numbers and said that they may not calibrate now as the settings worked for them. [I suggest they at least try to calibrate to see how close they really are.] Sorry but I really don't have the time to redo it all right now. But if you are doing all the steps as outlined in the HCFR instructions, I think you should be gettiing a great picture. I wouldn't sweat the minor details too much.

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post #380 of 8811 Old 08-10-2010, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by TViewer2000 View Post

So do you press Input and FastForward while pointing at the Harmony or do you press the input then point the remote towards the harmony and press the fastforward button?

While pointing at the Harmony press input, then press fast forward.
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post #381 of 8811 Old 08-10-2010, 08:11 AM
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"While pointing at the Harmony press input, then press fast forward."

Would be an interesting test to press input and then just "learn" the FF command from the TV's remote with it in the direct mode. If just learning the command sent by the FF works then it would be that by being in direct mode when pressing the input key all that is doing is telling the TV's remote to send the discrete command for HDMI2 when the FF button is pushed. In other words its not really a two command command.

That is possible. That by pushing the Input key it is telling the remote to use a different set of commands from its internal database.

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post #382 of 8811 Old 08-10-2010, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Nofears View Post

This is indeed a major bummer to hear as I'm gettin ready to purchase one of the 82" sets.

I was in the same boat. Even had everything in my cart on Amazon just waiting to make that final decision. Now....well, now I'm reconsidering going with the 82 and may back it up to the 73.
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post #383 of 8811 Old 08-10-2010, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Psykoboy2 View Post

I was in the same boat. Even had everything in my cart on Amazon just waiting to make that final decision. Now....well, now I'm reconsidering going with the 82 and may back it up to the 73.

What is it that everyone is running from?
I have the 82738 and it looks fantastic!
Are you going to be watching the set in outside on your sun patio?
I guess I try to make the viewing room closer to what a theater is like...very dark...or at least very dim lighting.

I saw both sets in a BB. They were across the room from each other, maybe 15 - 20 feet away from each other. Of course they were both in torch mode. I played with the settings on the 82 and was able to get it looking pretty darn good without the advanced settings. Advanced settings will not do you much good without some type of calibration equipment anyway. Seeing both of them so close to each other and being able to just turn around from one to the other...being about 7 - 8 feet away from each one...I just had to have the 82 as the 73 really was not that much brighter...if at all. Now I will say that like any DLP, including the 73" set, you have to be pretty close to the vertical middle of the screen to get the brightest image. So the height at which you set the TV up on a stand is important to consider in relation to how far back you may be seated. But here again, that's the way it has always been with large DLP sets. So then, it's up to you but I love the giant size of the 82. At first the wife thought it was going to be HUMONGOUS

But after 5 years watching a 61" she said it really didn't look that big!!! Relativism is a great thing!

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post #384 of 8811 Old 08-10-2010, 09:27 AM
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Well, this will be my first venture into DLP territory. I made a post earlier that I'm going from the 73 CRT (WD-73909 way back in 2002) to a DLP. I'm really stuck on having the same size or bigger television. So DLP is pretty much it.

I'll be sitting about 12 to 13 feet from the TV. I haven't figured out what level I'd be looking at the set. Currently my CRT sits pretty high off the floor. I'll do some measurements tonight and get back to you on that.
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post #385 of 8811 Old 08-10-2010, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by jaseman View Post

But after 5 years watching a 61" she said it really didn't look that big!!! Relativism is a great thing!

That's what she sa... oh wait..
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post #386 of 8811 Old 08-10-2010, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by jaseman View Post

What do you mean run them at 100%? I followed all the instructions as written. I was able to bring all colors and gray scale to near perfect. The picture is amazing. Someone else used my numbers and said that they may not calibrate now as the settings worked for them. [I suggest they at least try to calibrate to see how close they really are.] Sorry but I really don't have the time to redo it all right now. But if you are doing all the steps as outlined in the HCFR instructions, I think you should be gettiing a great picture. I wouldn't sweat the minor details too much.

I'm not asking you to redo the calibration, just measure your primaries and secondaries at 100% saturation (Step 8.4 in Greyscale & Color Calibration for Dummies). Takes like 10 minutes.
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post #387 of 8811 Old 08-10-2010, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Nofears View Post

Whoa, that's not good...
Did you at least make sure the settings were somewhat similar?
Did you try one of the other folks settings to see if the picture improved?

This is indeed a major bummer to hear as I'm gettin ready to purchase one of the 82" sets.

The room I have my TV set in has one wall which is all windows. I was always amazed how bright and crisp the 73" was from the day I bought it a couple years ago. In a bright room, the 82738 was not able to produce an image like the 73833. I lowered the shades in the room which dims the room, and then the 82" looked more like the 73" does when the shades are up (and of course the 73" looked spectacular). Note: The 73" bulb was replaced about 6 months ago, so it has dimmed somewhat. The 82" bulb was of course new.

The screen material of the 82738 is definitely much lighter than the 73833, so I suspect that the larger 82" screen material had to be lighter to get overall lumens up, but at the sacrifice of dark detail. I am going to BB today to compare the 73738 to the 82738 with the TVs turned off. Then I can see if this is a XX738 change from the older XX833, or if this is a difference between 73XXX and 82XXX just based on screen size.
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post #388 of 8811 Old 08-10-2010, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by jaseman View Post

Are you saying that your set is DARKER than mine??? Mine is plenty bright for the type of room it is in...completely dark most of the time...but I cannot imagine the set being much darker, especially when the lights are on. The more I hear about the 838 series the more I think the 738 series is the better buy...unless you need all the built in speakers.

As for the single HDMI port that you use on the set, I can only imagine that your source feed from the DVDO Duo Video Processor is what is causing the delay, or along with the set itself, between the two of them there is a longer delay than there should be. All my video goes through my Denon AVR-790 and there is no delay when changing channels, bringing up the guide, or skipping tracs on a blu-ray or DVD.

I have no delay, that is the point. Any delay if there was any would be in the source device. There is a world of difference between the image quality out of the Tivo going through the Duo compared to the built in tuner. The internal is simply awful in comparison. People have delay when the TV is using an external tuner/cable box or whatever and that device is changing output resolution and the TV has to sync to a new resolution. My Tivo is configured to send the resolution of the source untouched into the Duo. The Duo changes resolutions instantly. Since it always outputs 1080P on the same output port there is nothing for the TV to resynch to.

Based on your 100 IRE measurement of 32 ft lamberts your set is way brighter than my set. That is why I asked you if you were clipping. I can make my set produce 32 ft lamberts as well, but it destroys the image in the process. You don't have an iris on your set so it should make the sreen somewhat brighter but you calibrated with your lamp set to standard and made 32 ft lamberts, that means your set could probably make 35 ft lamberts with the lamp on full tilt mode.

I am running my lamp in the bright mode and only making 24 ft lamberts. That is a huge difference. I am trying to understand what is going on different between our sets. I would be dancing in the aisles if I could get 30 plus ft lamberts fully calibrated with no clipping. Perhaps there is something optimized on the 2010. I saw a report of 29 ft lamberts on a 2009 82" set but when I looked at the guys Calman report green luminance was down 19% from target at 75% stimulus. He was clipping horribly, and he was asking for advice on how to get more light out of the set..... yikes that had to look bad. It would only have gotten worse as it made more light. This should be a physical limitation of the lamp.. that is why I am so curious. They are specced the same, and supposedly use the same lamp... Did you figure out how to check your Y for colors?

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post #389 of 8811 Old 08-10-2010, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Melonhead11 View Post

I'm not asking you to redo the calibration, just measure your primaries and secondaries at 100% saturation (Step 8.4 in Greyscale & Color Calibration for Dummies). Takes like 10 minutes.

Not sure if I will be able to do it tonight, but I will see what I can do. So you want to know what the Delta E numbers are for the primaries and secondaries??? I do not have the numbers in front of me (of course) but I will say that they were all very LOW when I did the calibration. I will try to get a print-screen of the numbers and give them to you.

Better to want what you don't have, than to have what you don't want!

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post #390 of 8811 Old 08-10-2010, 12:20 PM
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Everyone that's complaining about the lack of brightness or what I call washed out look on the 82". It's the same issue as last years model, it's also the reason I went with a 73" instead of the 82". Just head over to the 2009 thread and there's been plenty of talk about it.
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