2010 Mitsubishi 3D DLP Owners Thread (738/838 series) - Page 28 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 7Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #811 of 8840 Old 09-03-2010, 07:35 AM
Member
 
LMitsDLP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaseman View Post

It's up to you but if you look at my posts in this thread you will find my calibrated settings for the exact same TV. A few have used my settings and said that they love how it made their sets look. So give it a try...you may be satisfied and save yourself a few hundred bucks. You can't hurt anything and it can all be reset to factory defaults if you don't like it.



Thank you for sharing your settings Jaseman, your work is greatly appreciated. I do not have my tv yet, because I'm still waiting to see a better price on the 73738. I save the page with your settings in a folder, so when I do get it, I will use your calibrated settings. I don't have a clue about about gamma this and Y this etc, but I do know when my eyes are looking at a brilliant picture, so you doing the hard work and sharing your information for folks who can't do this themselves is appreciated.

Just last year I purchase a 42" Panasonic Plasma TV from BB and even then they try to tell me about prices on calibration and I said no thank you. I also, understand your point on each TV in the same model series shouldn't have much variations, especially if they are the same size and they are build with the same specification,and set up in similar settings and it is a valid point. If there is a deviation from the others that to me sounds as if Mitsubishi is making a whole bunch of defected TVs. It's just like cars in BMW 745I series with the same options, usage and specs, should perform same way as each other right off the lot and if there is a deviation from the norm that mean that particular BMW is defected.
LMitsDLP is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #812 of 8840 Old 09-03-2010, 07:43 AM
Member
 
Izkimar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMitsDLP View Post

Thank you for sharing your settings Jaseman, your work is greatly appreciated. I do not have my tv yet, because I'm still waiting to see a better price on the 73738. I save the page with your settings in a folder, so when I do get it, I will use your calibrated settings. I don't have a clue about about gamma this and Y this etc, but I do know when my eyes are looking at a brilliant picture, so you doing the hard work and sharing your information for folks who can't do this themselves is appreciated.

Just last year I purchase a 42" Panasonic Plasma TV from BB and even then they try to tell me about prices on calibration and I said no thank you. I also, understand your point on each TV in the same model series shouldn't have much variations, especially if they are the same size and they are build with the same specification,and set up in similar settings and it is a valid point. If there is a deviation from the others that to me sounds as if Mitsubishi is making a whole bunch of defected TVs. It's just like cars in BMW 745I series with the same options, usage and specs, should perform same way as each other right off the lot and if there is a deviation from the norm that mean that particular BMW is defected.

However, there are different viewing environments that require different calibrated settings, so the ideal setup for him might not be the ideal one for you, but you could still give his settings a try and see how they work out.
Izkimar is offline  
post #813 of 8840 Old 09-03-2010, 07:48 AM
Member
 
LMitsDLP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by stangflyer View Post

Can anyone with the 838 tell me if it does split screen like my 07 73833? I like to watch 2 games at same time> Thanks!

It does not. I have not notice any picture in picture features on the Mitsubishi DLP models for about the last 2 years now. You can also visit Mitsubishi-tv website and see all the models listed under Home Theater TV for last year and this year.

I couldn't get to post the correct url due to forum rules.
LMitsDLP is offline  
post #814 of 8840 Old 09-03-2010, 07:51 AM
Member
 
LMitsDLP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Izkimar View Post

However, there are different viewing environments that require different calibrated settings, so the ideal setup for him might not be the ideal one for you, but you could still give his settings a try and see how they work out.

I did note that factor in my post when I wrote "similar settings" meaning viewing environments.
LMitsDLP is offline  
post #815 of 8840 Old 09-03-2010, 01:30 PM
Member
 
jiujitsumaniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 50
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Pics of my new TV stand I just built for my 65838 getting delivered on Sunday.....salivating....can't wait. TV stand is great - made it out of solid oak...but it weighs a TON.
LL
LL
jiujitsumaniac is offline  
post #816 of 8840 Old 09-03-2010, 01:39 PM
Member
 
theanimalad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jiujitsumaniac View Post

Pics of my new TV stand I just built for my 65838 getting delivered on Sunday.....salivating....can't wait. TV stand is great - made it out of solid oak...but it weighs a TON.

Holy crap that is sweet... I'll take one in black
theanimalad is offline  
post #817 of 8840 Old 09-03-2010, 03:28 PM
Advanced Member
 
morphinapg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 611
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by theanimalad View Post

Holy crap that is sweet... I'll take one in black

For real man that's awesome.
morphinapg is offline  
post #818 of 8840 Old 09-03-2010, 05:20 PM
Advanced Member
 
Darth Indy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 994
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I went to Ultimate Electronics today and check out the 82738. It is a monster! They had the 73" sitting right next to it and it looked way smaller. I did not notice a drop in brightness from the 73" to the 82". Also, they had last years model 82" next to the new 82738 and the new model had better brightness and the colors were better as well. The newer model 82" also seemed to have better off axis viewing. Overall it seems like the new models do have some improvements to last years' models.

I think I'm gonna get the 82738 soon but am shopping around for best deals. Seems like right now everybody has it on sale until next week. I'm wondering though if I hold off until around November if they will have even better sales for holiday shopping?
Darth Indy is online now  
post #819 of 8840 Old 09-03-2010, 05:50 PM
Member
 
Nofears's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 171
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jiujitsumaniac View Post

Pics of my new TV stand I just built for my 65838 getting delivered on Sunday.....salivating....can't wait. TV stand is great - made it out of solid oak...but it weighs a TON.

Awesome stand but...what about support in the center area of the top?

Aren't you worried about bowing?
Nofears is offline  
post #820 of 8840 Old 09-03-2010, 07:01 PM
Senior Member
 
hdnola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 238
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
82738 or 82838or 73838/37 which tv should i go for

best picture quality?
ideally id love the bigger screen though so eyeing the 82 (since will use 3d for gaming and movies)
but worried about lighting
my bedroom will be dark usually

also will be putting the tv in my bed room. so trying to figure out an ideal stand hight i should go for (im gonna build one just for the tv, and use seperate stand for other things as I want to just focus on tv viewing angles.

also for the time being i intend to self calibrate if satisfied then i prob wont pay for a pro cal(only if satisfied)
hdnola is offline  
post #821 of 8840 Old 09-03-2010, 08:01 PM
Member
 
jiujitsumaniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 50
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nofears View Post

Awesome stand but...what about support in the center area of the top?

Aren't you worried about bowing?


We will have to see - It is built out of 1 inch solid oak. I put 5 biscuits in between each of the planks (4 planks for each layer) - 20 biscuits total - it is structurally very strong.

If it does start to bow, I have a pre cut support for the center, already stained (I was also a little worried, but it visually takes away from the piece and once I had it fully assembled it seems like it will be fine ) - I can add it later.

Thanks for the compliments everyone.
jiujitsumaniac is offline  
post #822 of 8840 Old 09-03-2010, 08:42 PM
Member
 
dagameballa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Portland,Or
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
If u look on ebay right now theyre all on sale from the same seller for very very good prices and free shipping!! Good luck
dagameballa is offline  
post #823 of 8840 Old 09-03-2010, 10:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
gtgray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,411
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMitsDLP View Post

Thank you for sharing your settings Jaseman, your work is greatly appreciated. I do not have my tv yet, because I'm still waiting to see a better price on the 73738. I save the page with your settings in a folder, so when I do get it, I will use your calibrated settings. I don't have a clue about about gamma this and Y this etc, but I do know when my eyes are looking at a brilliant picture, so you doing the hard work and sharing your information for folks who can't do this themselves is appreciated.

Just last year I purchase a 42" Panasonic Plasma TV from BB and even then they try to tell me about prices on calibration and I said no thank you. I also, understand your point on each TV in the same model series shouldn't have much variations, especially if they are the same size and they are build with the same specification,and set up in similar settings and it is a valid point. If there is a deviation from the others that to me sounds as if Mitsubishi is making a whole bunch of defected TVs. It's just like cars in BMW 745I series with the same options, usage and specs, should perform same way as each other right off the lot and if there is a deviation from the norm that mean that particular BMW is defected.

Your statement about production variances indicating defective sets is poorly informed, and while I am sure it a goal of Mits to reduce the extent of production variances, the variances with Mits like all manufactures it is still significant. If the sets weren't variable, and I mean any brand, they would all have an out of the box settings that was nearly perfect. Pro calibrators would be out of business. The reality is that sets are hand tweaked at the factory and how much money and time the manufacturer applies to that effort is going to be different from one product to another. Since LCDs and Plasmas don't change much in their light output in the first year or two hand tweaking them to a more sophisticated level is probably more worth the effort than on a dirt cheap DLP that will be a completely different animal 200 hours after purchase than it was out of the box.

The fact that someones calibration settings noticeably improve over the out of box setting is hardly surprising. To say however from that observation they are all the same and will all achieve similar results when calibrated really is a huge leap. The calibration posted by Jaseman while excellent as far as it goes does not address getting the gamut Y errors minimized. This will often have more impact on the accuracy of a set than whether the colors are very close to right coordinates. Getting these color brightness levels for each colors as close to zero is often the tricky part of calibrating a Mits.

It is entirely possible that the 2010 sets overall are easier to calibrate well than the 2009. It has not yet been demonstrated. Without seeing how multiple sets do with the individual color "Y" measurements I think making any kind of blanket statements about better is purely speculation. Getting blue "Y" error to zero on the 2009 is tough. Overall error in blue could be fairly low but if the "Y" or brightness error is 5 % or higher it will stick out like a sore thumb on another wise nicely calibrated set. I have seen a dozen or so 2009 calibrations and most of them could not get blue fully tamed no matter how much time was spent.

Just another blank signature.
gtgray is offline  
post #824 of 8840 Old 09-04-2010, 11:29 AM
Advanced Member
 
jaseman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Earth
Posts: 722
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I must speak again...the issues that gtgray speaks of are only noticeable with a METER! Not that the settings I have posted will necessarily look good on your set, but the fact remains that the differences that he is discussing CANNOT be seen with the human eye. Bluray, and High-def broadcasts look fabulous. Do not worry about the supposed "change" that occurs after 200 hours of lamp life as this is just an arbitrary number. I know this because I have a 6 year old Samsung 61" 720p DLP on it's second bulb that is at least 2 years old and the picture on that set is still stunning from the first calibration I did when the set was new. Not only that but the Samsung was moved from Ohio to Texas and the picture still looks great! Did the lamp "dim" after a hundred hours or more??? Maybe...so just turn up the brightness or the contrast a little bit...no big deal!

Too many "experts" like to share their opinions which really do not amount to much more than a pile of burned-out-lamps!

Try my settings...if you don't like them then try your own, or pay for a calibration. Just don't sweat the minor details but rather...enjoy the beautiful picture these new Mitsubishi sets are capable of!

Better to want what you don't have, than to have what you don't want!

jaseman is offline  
post #825 of 8840 Old 09-04-2010, 11:47 AM
Senior Member
 
Jamespblues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 303
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Jamespblues is offline  
post #826 of 8840 Old 09-04-2010, 12:01 PM
Senior Member
 
Jamespblues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 303
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Jamespblues is offline  
post #827 of 8840 Old 09-04-2010, 12:21 PM
Advanced Member
 
jaseman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Earth
Posts: 722
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
DLP DLP DLP DLP DLP DLP

This is a chant ^

I really do like the way some of the LCD's look ... especially those with the high gloss screens. They look like liquid TV. HOWEVER, until they can build an 82" screen size for less than the cost of a new home...I will stick with DLP!

Everyone says that DLP looks the best with 3D. Not sure if I will ever adopt that tech so it's not a consideration for me at this time.

Better to want what you don't have, than to have what you don't want!

jaseman is offline  
post #828 of 8840 Old 09-04-2010, 12:33 PM
Newbie
 
Tourian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have had my 60638 for just over two months now and my wife and I are very pleased with it. I like the desktop vs. laptop analogy someone made several pages ago about how you pay more for the "sexiness" of a slim laptop when a desktop actually has as much or more power for less money, and although I think ultimately a plasma or high end LED has overall better performance, there is nothing that can compete with these sets dollar for dollar. However, when I do watch a blu-ray, I can't imagine anything being that much better, at least not and be worth the premium a large flat screen would cost me.

PS3 gaming on it is absolutely wonderful.
Tourian is offline  
post #829 of 8840 Old 09-04-2010, 12:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
gtgray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,411
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaseman View Post

I must speak again...the issues that gtgray speaks of are only noticeable with a METER! Not that the settings I have posted will necessarily look good on your set, but the fact remains that the differences that he is discussing CANNOT be seen with the human eye. Bluray, and High-def broadcasts look fabulous. Do not worry about the supposed "change" that occurs after 200 hours of lamp life as this is just an arbitrary number. I know this because I have a 6 year old Samsung 61" 720p DLP on it's second bulb that is at least 2 years old and the picture on that set is still stunning from the first calibration I did when the set was new. Not only that but the Samsung was moved from Ohio to Texas and the picture still looks great! Did the lamp "dim" after a hundred hours or more??? Maybe...so just turn up the brightness or the contrast a little bit...no big deal!

Too many "experts" like to share their opinions which really do not amount to much more than a pile of burned-out-lamps!

Try my settings...if you don't like them then try your own, or pay for a calibration. Just don't sweat the minor details but rather...enjoy the beautiful picture these new Mitsubishi sets are capable of!


Jaserman was extremely gracious to allow me into his home and to put a meter on his set. He and I obviously disagree about the importance of color Y to overall picture quality. I think you will find that my viewpoint is aligned with the professional calibration community consensus on that point. His set looks great and I am not in any way critical of his set. It makes far more light than mine and of that I have reason to be envious. We only disagree on the one point and respectfully so on my part about the importance of geting all the colors to be the correct brightness levels so that one or more colors does not stand out beyond the intent of the content maker.

Hopefully in the near future we get to see more calibrations on the 2010s.

Just another blank signature.
gtgray is offline  
post #830 of 8840 Old 09-04-2010, 01:27 PM
Member
 
LMitsDLP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

Your statement about production variances indicating defective sets is poorly informed, and while I am sure it a goal of Mits to reduce the extent of production variances, the variances with Mits like all manufactures it is still significant. If the sets weren't variable, and I mean any brand, they would all have an out of the box settings that was nearly perfect. Pro calibrators would be out of business. The reality is that sets are hand tweaked at the factory and how much money and time the manufacturer applies to that effort is going to be different from one product to another. Since LCDs and Plasmas don't change much in their light output in the first year or two hand tweaking them to a more sophisticated level is probably more worth the effort than on a dirt cheap DLP that will be a completely different animal 200 hours after purchase than it was out of the box.

The fact that someones calibration settings noticeably improve over the out of box setting is hardly surprising. To say however from that observation they are all the same and will all achieve similar results when calibrated really is a huge leap. The calibration posted by Jaseman while excellent as far as it goes does not address getting the gamut Y errors minimized. This will often have more impact on the accuracy of a set than whether the colors are very close to right coordinates. Getting these color brightness levels for each colors as close to zero is often the tricky part of calibrating a Mits.

It is entirely possible that the 2010 sets overall are easier to calibrate well than the 2009. It has not yet been demonstrated. Without seeing how multiple sets do with the individual color "Y" measurements I think making any kind of blanket statements about better is purely speculation. Getting blue "Y" error to zero on the 2009 is tough. Overall error in blue could be fairly low but if the "Y" or brightness error is 5 % or higher it will stick out like a sore thumb on another wise nicely calibrated set. I have seen a dozen or so 2009 calibrations and most of them could not get blue fully tamed no matter how much time was spent.

So, I guess CNET reviews are garbage then? When they do reviews of lets say WD-65738 or WD-65838, they always say to expect the same performance from the smaller of bigger sets in that model series since they all have the specs. Going by what you and many other experts on this board are saying, this is not true. CNET a reputable review site, don't know what they are saying, if I go with you'll conclusion. Also, if Mitsubishi puts the same lamp in all of their DLP models from 60"-82", that should goes to show that the lamp should perform the same in all sets regardless of screen sizes. They would have some serious lawsuits on their hands if they go around putting lamps that are not suitable for a 82" TV in those sets.


Also, I must add, that the 2010 738 and 838 since those were the two models I viewed, are very much brighter than the previous models. Even the sales person at "The Big Screen Store" said that, when I said to him that these look a lot brighter than the previous models. The viewing from the side is way better also, and I think someone else and even you also mentioned this improvement.
LMitsDLP is offline  
post #831 of 8840 Old 09-04-2010, 01:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jsmiddleton4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 3,264
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Liked: 24
"I guess CNET reviews are garbage then?"

Pretty much.

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
jsmiddleton4 is offline  
post #832 of 8840 Old 09-04-2010, 01:51 PM
Advanced Member
 
Darth Indy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 994
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMitsDLP View Post

So, I guess CNET reviews are garbage then? When they do reviews of lets say WD-65738 or WD-65838, they always say to expect the same performance from the smaller of bigger sets in that model series since they all have the specs. Going by what you and many other experts on this board are saying, this is not true. CNET a reputable review site, don't know what they are saying, if I go with you'll conclusion. Also, if Mitsubishi puts the same lamp in all of their DLP models from 60"-82", that should goes to show that the lamp should perform the same in all sets regardless of screen sizes. They would have some serious lawsuits on their hands if they go around putting lamps that are not suitable for a 82" TV in those sets.


Also, I must add, that the 2010 738 and 838 since those were the two models I viewed, are very much brighter than the previous models. Even the sales person at "The Big Screen Store" said that, when I said to him that these look a lot brighter than the previous models. The viewing from the side is way better also, and I think someone else and even you also mentioned this improvement.



Yes, I noted this yesterday as well. I went and viewed the 82738 and last years 82" model side by side. The 2010 models were brighter, had better color, and the off axis side viewing was much improved.
Darth Indy is online now  
post #833 of 8840 Old 09-04-2010, 01:55 PM
Member
 
LMitsDLP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Indy View Post

I went to Ultimate Electronics today and check out the 82738. It is a monster! They had the 73" sitting right next to it and it looked way smaller. I did not notice a drop in brightness from the 73" to the 82". Also, they had last years model 82" next to the new 82738 and the new model had better brightness and the colors were better as well. The newer model 82" also seemed to have better off axis viewing. Overall it seems like the new models do have some improvements to last years' models.

I think I'm gonna get the 82738 soon but am shopping around for best deals. Seems like right now everybody has it on sale until next week. I'm wondering though if I hold off until around November if they will have even better sales for holiday shopping?

I am trying to hold off too. Taken from a article from Yahoo finance, Many are saying even though they might be some good sale this weekend, the big drop in prices will be in next 1-2 months. "Amazon and Walmart are leading the pack in incredible deals, says, Brad Wilson, publisher of www.Braddeals.com for a few items, however, he says patience will pay off. Prices on E-Readers, 3D televisions and Tablet PCs will drop even more over the next month or two."

The article also, touch upon Best Buy's end-of summer sale. Saying, "Shoppers can snag a Samsung 46-inch HDTV and Blu-Ray player for just under $1,000 and get as much as 15 percent off TV stands. But shoppers in the market for 3D televisions might want to wait to buy until the holidays, says Wilson, when prices are expected to fall dramatically."

It is hard to stay patient, but the wait could mean saving hundreds of dollars, which I can go towards buying a Yamaha 3D home theater system and a 3D Blu-ray player. My current 42" Panasonic Plasma just has to continue doing the job for another couple months.
LMitsDLP is offline  
post #834 of 8840 Old 09-04-2010, 02:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
gtgray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,411
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMitsDLP View Post

So, I guess CNET reviews are garbage then? When they do reviews of lets say WD-65738 or WD-65838, they always say to expect the same performance from the smaller of bigger sets in that model series since they all have the specs. Going by what you and many other experts on this board are saying, this is not true. CNET a reputable review site, don't know what they are saying, if I go with you'll conclusion. Also, if Mitsubishi puts the same lamp in all of their DLP models from 60"-82", that should goes to show that the lamp should perform the same in all sets regardless of screen sizes. They would have some serious lawsuits on their hands if they go around putting lamps that are not suitable for a 82" TV in those sets.


Also, I must add, that the 2010 738 and 838 since those were the two models I viewed, are very much brighter than the previous models. Even the sales person at "The Big Screen Store" said that, when I said to him that these look a lot brighter than the previous models. The viewing from the side is way better also, and I think someone else and even you also mentioned this improvement.

You really are missing the point. While using the settings discovered during the calibration of another similar set may and probably will improve from the out of box calibration it does not reliably produce the same results. It is pointless for me to argue you this with you. If you want to be informed on the subject I suggest you go to the Display Calibrations forum and read the the topics on subject. This is not a personal view, this is the collective knowledge of the industry and the leaders who train THX and ISF calibrators and the people who design meters, measurment software, test disks, and video processors. Again, this entire industry exists to help produce reference quality image reproduction on playback devices.

So to restate, using someone else's setting may may make a marked improvement out of the box, that is not a calibration. In the Service Menu on the Mits is a category called CCA. This stands for color contrast adjustment. These setting are individually set for that particular display by hand at the factory for each set built. Other manufacturers will have similar and usually more in depth factory hand tuned adjustments.

Do you think for a minute that Mits would expose all these setting for you to modify if the same set of settings produced an optimal result on each set they built. Don't you think it would just be easier for them to preset all the calibration information at the factory. What exactly do you think the point is of having all those setting available. They are just not dials and knobs for you to twist to suit your preference. You can of course do that, it is your set. But if you think about it, if there was as little variation between sets as you describe then they would set them to near perfect and that would be the end of the story.

That you asume because the same lamp and basically the same optical engine is used that the correct settings for a single 82" set are right for a 65" set that makes nearly 40 percent more light per cm^2 is almost hysterically funny.

If you want to become informed about the subject I suggest you spend a few months reading in the Display Calibration forum and you read all the beginner how to guides including Kal Palme's Grayscale for Dummies. This is essentially a rewrite of Tom Huffman's basic calibration guide. Huffman is the developer of Chromapure, calibration software than many of us doing our own calibration use.

While there is plenty of disagreement on calbration subjects in the Calibration forum amongst the experts and top calibrators, they agree on much more than they disagree and they would agree completely on the subject of resusing homegrown, or ever pro-grown calibration settings. A particular collection of settings maybe useful as a jumping off point, they do NOT produce results comparable to a properly individually calibrated set.

Individual sets vary enormously despite what you think. You are just not well-informed. Go to the calibrations forum and get yourself some knowledge and argue with them if you need to prove something to somebody. There is no excuse for not becoming better informed if you want to challenge the wisdom of others on a subject you are woefully ill informed about.

While you may have the highest regard for CNET, that is not the case in the display industry or on this forum. CNET is not what they once were and their advice is often more subjective than objective. When they tell you to expect similar characteristics from one product to another, they are speaking in a much more generalized way then you are taking it.

Just another blank signature.
gtgray is offline  
post #835 of 8840 Old 09-04-2010, 03:59 PM
Member
 
LMitsDLP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

You really are missing the point. While using the settings discovered during the calibration of another similar set may and probably will improve from the out of box calibration it does not reliably produce the same results. It is pointless for me to argue you this with you. If you want to be informed on the subject I suggest you go to the Display Calibrations forum and read the the topics on subject. This is not a personal view, this is the collective knowledge of the industry and the leaders who train THX and ISF calibrators and the people who design meters, measurment software, test disks, and video processors. Again, this entire industry exists to help produce reference quality image reproduction on playback devices.

So to restate, using someone else's setting may may make a marked improvement out of the box, that is not a calibration. In the Service Menu on the Mits is a category called CCA. This stands for color contrast adjustment. These setting are individually set for that particular display by hand at the factory for each set built. Other manufacturers will have similar and usually more in depth factory hand tuned adjustments.

Do you think for a minute that Mits would expose all these setting for you to modify if the same set of settings produced an optimal result on each set they built. Don't you think it would just be easier for them to preset all the calibration information at the factory. What exactly do you think the point is of having all those setting available. They are just not dials and knobs for you to twist to suit your preference. You can of course do that, it is your set. But if you think about it, if there was as little variation between sets as you describe then they would set them to near perfect and that would be the end of the story.

That you asume because the same lamp and basically the same optical engine is used that the correct settings for a single 82" set are right for a 65" set that makes nearly 40 percent more light per cm^2 is almost hysterically funny.

If you want to become informed about the subject I suggest you spend a few months reading in the Display Calibration forum and you read all the beginner how to guides including Kal Palme's Grayscale for Dummies. This is essentially a rewrite of Tom Huffman's basic calibration guide. Huffman is the developer of Chromapure, calibration software than many of us doing our own calibration use.

While there is plenty of disagreement on calbration subjects in the Calibration forum amongst the experts and top calibrators, they agree on much more than they disagree and they would agree completely on the subject of resusing homegrown, or ever pro-grown calibration settings. A particular collection of settings maybe useful as a jumping off point, they do NOT produce results comparable to a properly individually calibrated set.

Individual sets vary enormously despite what you think. You are just not well-informed. Go to the calibrations forum and get yourself some knowledge and argue with them if you need to prove something to somebody. There is no excuse for not becoming better informed if you want to challenge the wisdom of others on a subject you are woefully ill informed about.

While you may have the highest regard for CNET, that is not the case in the display industry or on this forum. CNET is not what they once were and their advice is often more subjective than objective. When they tell you to expect similar characteristics from one product to another, they are speaking in a much more generalized way then you are taking it.




Now CNET is not what they once were? There should not be any different in the same models of TVs, and do not buy into you'll are trying to say otherwise. A person who does calibration cannot even guarantee me that he/she will get the settings perfectly set as you keep mention the meter this and meter that, but yet...you'll can't bring it (the picture) to perfection, according to the meter. Get over this expert calibration nonsense, because that all it is. You'll can't bring the sets to put out perfect readings from the meter, so who are you'll to say or assume someone's calibration is sub par. Plus, if the difference can't be seen by the human eye, why the big deal? When people are going to watch movies or play games etc, do they do it by looking at the meter or they look at the TV screens?


By the way, when people go to the store to purchase TV, none of those TVs are calibrated. So, the wow effect that we get at the stores, is looking at these TV right out the box. I even call "The Big Screen Store" and ask if they calibrated the TVs and they say no, they can't do that. That would be false advertising the TV. This professional calibration nonsense is overrated. And again, if the slight differences can't be seen by the human eye, why the overkill.
LMitsDLP is offline  
post #836 of 8840 Old 09-04-2010, 04:17 PM
Advanced Member
 
morphinapg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 611
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMitsDLP View Post

[/b]

Now CNET is not what they once were? There should not be any different in the same models of TVs, and do not buy into you'll are trying to say otherwise. A person who does calibration cannot even guarantee me that he/she will get the settings perfectly set as you keep mention the meter this and meter that, but yet...you'll can't bring it (the picture) to perfection, according to the meter. Get over this expert calibration nonsense, because that all it is. You'll can't bring the sets to put out perfect readings from the meter, so who are you'll to say or assume someone's calibration is sub par. Plus, if the difference can't be seen by the human eye, why the big deal? When people are going to watch movies or play games etc, do they do it by looking at the meter or they look at the TV screens?


By the way, when people go to the store to purchase TV, none of those TVs are calibrated. So, the wow effect that we get at the stores, is looking at these TV right out the box. I even call "The Big Screen Store" and ask if they calibrated the TVs and they say no, they can't do that. That would be false advertising the TV. This professional calibration nonsense is overrated. And again, if the slight differences can't be seen by the human eye, why the overkill.

Why do you keep saying the differences can't be seen by the human eye? While it's true that the human eye will accept a range of color temperatures as pure gray and be okay with a number of inaccuracies in color balance, they can still see the difference. The human eye can see the smallest differences, it's not just the meter. However, the human eye can not tell you exactly what is perfectly accurate, as the eyes can adjust to different conditions. Therefore, meters must be used as an objective way to get perfect calibration. The point of calibration is so that your TV matches the standards, or is as close as possible, not only making your tv look good to your eyes, because your eyes can be fooled.
morphinapg is offline  
post #837 of 8840 Old 09-04-2010, 04:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
gtgray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,411
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMitsDLP View Post

[/b]

Now CNET is not what they once were? There should not be any different in the same models of TVs, and do not buy into you'll are trying to say otherwise. A person who does calibration cannot even guarantee me that he/she will get the settings perfectly set as you keep mention the meter this and meter that, but yet...you'll can't bring it (the picture) to perfection, according to the meter. Get over this expert calibration nonsense, because that all it is. You'll can't bring the sets to put out perfect readings from the meter, so who are you'll to say or assume someone's calibration is sub par. Plus, if the difference can't be seen by the human eye, why the big deal? When people are going to watch movies or play games etc, do they do it by looking at the meter or they look at the TV screens?


By the way, when people go to the store to purchase TV, none of those TVs are calibrated. So, the wow effect that we get at the stores, is looking at these TV right out the box. I even call "The Big Screen Store" and ask if they calibrated the TVs and they say no, they can't do that. That would be false advertising the TV. This professional calibration nonsense is overrated. And again, if the slight differences can't be seen by the human eye, why the overkill.

Again, and again you show how ill informed you are. There are color error measurements and they have applicability to what we can see. The whole point of calibration is to make what you see on the screen match what the content maker saw on the reference monitor when they master the film to video. This way you see what they intended you to see.

These measurements techniques and calibration workflows are based on a human perception model. While it is entirely possible to adjust a set closer to the spec than can be perceived by the average person, not I nor, any of the pros on the display calibration avocate anybody spend time making a set closer to the spec than normal vision can detect. They will tell an over enthusiastic newbie you are past the point and your are wasting time.

The only argument to do that is that a dispaly calibrated somewhat better than what the eyes can see might stay in spec longer. But if the spec says for grayscale dEs 3.0 or less are pretty much undetectable, and the set is hitting 1.5 don't bother getting any lower. Grayscale uses one measurement error scale and color another typically. For color using CIE94 as the measurement model the threshold for humans is at delta E of 1.5 lower than that most people can't see the difference. Some of the software out there will use different color models and it can confusing when they say the color error of blue is xyz. It is only meaningful if you know what scale they are using.

So once again you are talking about things which you only understand in the most general and muddled way.

Just another blank signature.
gtgray is offline  
post #838 of 8840 Old 09-04-2010, 05:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
gtgray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,411
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post

Why do you keep saying the differences can't be seen by the human eye? While it's true that the human eye will accept a range of color temperatures as pure gray and be okay with a number of inaccuracies in color balance, they can still see the difference. The human eye can see the smallest differences, it's not just the meter. However, the human eye can not tell you exactly what is perfectly accurate, as the eyes can adjust to different conditions. Therefore, meters must be used as an objective way to get perfect calibration. The point of calibration is so that your TV matches the standards, or is as close as possible, not only making your tv look good to your eyes, because your eyes can be fooled.

I would also add that because people are used to seeing overly bright, overly saturated TV sets it it not uncommon for a pro calibrator to go to a customer site, get a set calibrated virtually to pefection and have the customer just hate it.

It takes a bit of time to adjust to a well setup display if you have been watching one that is over lit and over saturated. It may seen dull and lifeless at first. What you do see on a calibrated set is a lot more detail in a complicated scene because the right colors are in the right places. There is often a much greater 3 dimensionality to a properly calibrated set as there should be less banding.

Often times calibrators wil have to tell a first time calibration customer to give the set a few days, they need to get used to it to appreciate the virtues. Some people will actually turn one back to torch mode and feel they wasted their money. That is the idea of reference vs. preference. The customer prefers the look of an in accurate display over the look of an accurate one. Over bright, over saturated sets are like a sugar high, they really make you go WOW! but if you are used to a calibrated display, you might just be saying ouch! instead of wow when you see that uncalibrated display.

Just another blank signature.
gtgray is offline  
post #839 of 8840 Old 09-04-2010, 06:28 PM
Advanced Member
 
Darth Indy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 994
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMitsDLP View Post

I am trying to hold off too. Taken from a article from Yahoo finance, Many are saying even though they might be some good sale this weekend, the big drop in prices will be in next 1-2 months. "Amazon and Walmart are leading the pack in incredible deals, says, Brad Wilson, publisher of www.Braddeals.com for a few items, however, he says patience will pay off. Prices on E-Readers, 3D televisions and Tablet PCs will drop even more over the next month or two."

The article also, touch upon Best Buy's end-of summer sale. Saying, "Shoppers can snag a Samsung 46-inch HDTV and Blu-Ray player for just under $1,000 and get as much as 15 percent off TV stands. But shoppers in the market for 3D televisions might want to wait to buy until the holidays, says Wilson, when prices are expected to fall dramatically."

It is hard to stay patient, but the wait could mean saving hundreds of dollars, which I can go towards buying a Yamaha 3D home theater system and a 3D Blu-ray player. My current 42" Panasonic Plasma just has to continue doing the job for another couple months.

I'm not sure how long I'll be able to hold out! I know around November will probably be the best deals and/or bundles. I have found an authorized dealer though that will sell me the 82738 for $2,599.00 so I'm not so sure that even the holiday deals will beat that. If anything probably meet that same price unless they have bundle deals where they throw in the 3D kit for free or something. Is this price too good to pass up???
Darth Indy is online now  
post #840 of 8840 Old 09-04-2010, 08:51 PM
Member
 
Juan Sarda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What the hell are you waiting for?? $2599 for an 82 in is a no brainer, everday that your not watching that 82 in is costing you in unlimited enjoyment, if you have never seen anything bigger than a 65 inch in your home, you are missing alot. Since the 1st day I got my 65 in DLP 2005 I could never look at anything smaller. When I upgraded to the Mitsu 73 in (73738) dirt cheap under $2k in Aug 2010 I was in heaven again. Life is short, get the big TV and watch it now, do you no how many movies you can watch between now and November? You might not be here for the Nov sales. People die everyday lightning strikes, car accidents, health etc. Place the order now and enjoy an excellent Picture experience that you wont regret.
Juan Sarda is offline  
Reply Rear Projection Units

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off