Problems with Pioneer Pro 510HD, 610HD, 710HD, SD532HD, 582HD, 642HD - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 92 Old 03-27-2011, 01:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sideswiper View Post

I personally would not do any cleaning of the unit or playing in the service menu i would much rather pay someone that KNOWS what they are doing than make that one mistake and cost you more than what it would cost to get it done properly. The manual at servicemanuals only has 1 of the 4 manuals for the 710HD which is ARP 3086 it is missing ARP 3065,ARP 3041, ARP 3051. I have all 4 service manuals they do cover more than just the 710HD models. Some also cover the 610HD,510HD and the SD582HD5 and the SD532HD5 models

I agree you should not do anything that would endanger such a sophisticated set.

OTOH, I have been successfully phone coaching owners on how to get their optics back to factory fresh sizzlingly crystal clear condition again for years now. My methods have 100% efficacy and go 100% over the phone with a diligent listener on the other end.

Same with other facets of my calibration process. Believe me it is head and shoulders better than even thinking about trying to find someone local qualified to do it. They never are, unless you happen to live close by to me or some other calibrator who knows THESE FACETS of CRT tech. Which eliminates about 99% of all ISF agents and 99.99999% of all local repair service techs.

Just contact me off board and we'll set something up.

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post #32 of 92 Old 03-27-2011, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProAudio5 View Post

Yes, Bob. I've noticed that... the grayscale seems to be OK, but in my opinion it could use some improvement. Because of the room arrangement, I feel the need to leave the protective plexi-glass panel in place to avoid damage to the lenticular screen. This causes some reflections during daylight hours, even with the blinds down on the windows. I wonder if there is a way to adjust color temperature other than the standard presets. What do you think?

-A

I can phone coach you in several different ways of improving the grayscale. But in the end to get it dialed in completely, you'll need referencing equipment and lots and lots of learning curve mastery.

That said, Splicer 010 will testify to how close we got his over the phone when he screwed his up once, due to accidental misdialing of the trimpots on his end. That was a couple of years ago and he has not had to have any attention to it since.

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post #33 of 92 Old 04-26-2011, 08:54 PM
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I've re- worked the Power Supply board (again) and finally got it working perfectly, Seems I missed 1 or 2 cracked solder joints. I have cleaned the optics (please don't cringe Mr. Bob, I worked in the optics industry for 14 years) I've yet to reinstall the mirror but it functions perfectly. With a professional re- calibration which is to be expected, it should be as new.

Only problem is, after all the work invested, I have come to the conclusion that it is too big, heavy, and bulky - and I really do not want it in this room any longer. Please contact me off board if you are local and interested.

-A
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post #34 of 92 Old 04-27-2011, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Hope somebody jumps on this for you. Too bad it took so long to get going -



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post #35 of 92 Old 04-28-2011, 10:43 AM
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Bob, if you're in the area and have a vehicle capable of carrying it, it's yours for a song. It pains me to say it but I just want it out of here. As soon as possible. I'll be moving soon and I can't take it with me anyway. As it stands now the back is off and the mirror is wrapped in a flannel sheet. The guns have a flannel pillow case over them and the set is in my garage taking up a lot of space as it always did. If you still have my phone # give me a call. If no takers, sadly, it's going to meet the landfill (sigh).

-A
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post #36 of 92 Old 04-28-2011, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Allen, I thank you for the offer, but dude, I'm in California! That's why I was saying I hope somebody close by snags it.

There have been copious prospective owners trying for one of these beautiful sets, at the 2 threads I write on every day. This thread is more an afterthought compared to them, as they have been going on the AVS for years.

One is in this thread, first post. Here's a list, which includes that -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...402397&page=89

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...95922&page=284

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...010146&page=35


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post #37 of 92 Old 04-29-2011, 08:07 AM
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Thanks for the reply, Bob. I realize you are on the other side of the country just thought you might be passing through, because as I understand it you travel alot. But the offer still stands for anyone interested.

-Alan
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post #38 of 92 Old 04-29-2011, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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This was just posted over at the master repair thread for these sets. I thought I would share it here as well -

b



Forgive me, we've been very busy here so I just looked it over and the last few pages really don't cover what you need to know. You'll probably have to go back as many as 10 pages, maybe more. Just don't follow the advice in the early pages where various individual specific points are mentioned as needing attention. If they are part of the active, directly connected circuitry and have not been resoldered yet by now, they all do. Each and every affected solder joint in there needs to be resoldered, regardless of how many and how small they are. It is a long and tedious process, but what else is new?

The entire Power Supply board was compromised at the factory with solder that was too thin and those joints are giving up the ghost all over the boards now. As such with very few exceptions the entire PS board needs to be resoldered. Doing so will completely restore it and it will last indefinitely, just like the 100% performance all the other boards in there have been delivering all along. There are lots of boards in there, all of which have been performing at 100% all along and will continue to do so indefinitely.

I guarantee it for the PS board, as long as I am the one on the case for you. If anything like that happens again on your PS board, no matter how many years later, I will correct that condition again on your PS board for you, no charge. I can offer that lifetime guaranty because I know that doing so will leave me next to no work at all to do in the future on this issue, as long as I was the one who resoldered your PS board in the first place. Yes, I have resoldered that many PS boards in the last few years, whose owners are even as we speak enjoying their sets every day now, effortlessly. As I have said many times over the years, these are hardy, permanent sets. CRT - not just Pioneer, but all brands - was designed and produced in an era where things were built to last, unlike the fragile and highly disposable sets being sold new today.


BTW, I was just sent something printed on Just Answer.

Contrary to the advice of another very seasoned and experienced repair tech on Just Answer, no the PS board cannot be trusted if all you resolder are the currently affected joints, in fact doing so actually puts your set in more danger than it was in before, because it exposes your set to the much more damaging joints that go bad later. If it's in its early stages, those intermittents you are experiencing are valid warning signs because they don't usually damage your set, they just let you know something's wrong and that something definitely needs to be done before you keep using your set and exposing it to unspecified but still very real dangers. The ones that start to go bad later, since you didn't heed the warning signs or only resolder what's bad now, are the damaging ones and can take your set down hard.

So heed the warning signs! If your set is currently exhibiting the symptoms of cold solder joints on the power supply board - blue flashes, fluctuating brightness, lack of picture or sound while running or even actual shut down - STOP USING IT! Unplug it and don't allow it back up to normal operating temperature - EVEN ONCE - unless and until repaired PROPERLY. Cold solder joints start to let go and do their damage ONLY ONCE YOUR SET HAS HEATED UP thru normal operations. So don't keep your set on for more than 40 seconds from dead cold - for testing only - during the duration of this very dangerous set of circumstances, which has the power to become a potentially catastrophic event and even total your set if your finances cannot withstand the onslaught of the more serious of repair bills. Nipping it in the bud keeps your repair bills low and entirely affordable, bordering on negigible compared to what you originally paid for your set. In fact the decision to do what's necessary when in the early stages is an incredible no-brainer, all things considered.

And no, the deflection board does not need attention unless damaged by the PS board's cold solder joints. It does not develop cold solder joints on its own in the course of normal operation like the PS board does. Neither does the convergence board. None of those boards in there do, except the PS board. If your set is experiencing those dangerous intermittents, leave all the other boards alone! Concentrate ONLY on the Power Supply board, the one at the end of your set's wall power cord, the one that plugs into your wall outlet. The less messed with in there the better, esp. if you are not a trained and experienced service technician.

This is a cardinal rule for service repair technicians who do this kind of work every day, and should be heeded by everyone: always leave alone whatever can be left alone! Any time you dive into circuitry you risk opening a can of worms and suddenly having a lot more on your plate than originally intended.

So focus ONLY on the PS board in this case.



b

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post #39 of 92 Old 05-02-2011, 01:36 PM
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Alright, Mr. Bob. Now I'm really confused. I resoldered the board again last week and just a few minutes ago, reinstalled it. I had my wife attempt to power it on, watching carefully for any smoke or zorches. There were none. When she turned on the main power, she got the red standby light, but the unit will not power up.

The mirror has been removed and is wrapped securely in soft cloth, but what I do notice is that there is something that appears to be a micro switch between the guns mounted on a small metal frame. Could this be why the set won't accept the power up command? Any advice you can offer will be once again appreciated.

-A
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post #40 of 92 Old 05-02-2011, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProAudio5 View Post

Alright, Mr. Bob. Now I'm really confused. I resoldered the board again last week and just a few minutes ago, reinstalled it. I had my wife attempt to power it on, watching carefully for any smoke or zorches. There were none. When she turned on the main power, she got the red standby light, but the unit will not power up.

The mirror has been removed and is wrapped securely in soft cloth, but what I do notice is that there is something that appears to be a micro switch between the guns mounted on a small metal frame. Could this be why the set won't accept the power up command? Any advice you can offer will be once again appreciated.

-A

The small device between the CRT lenses is actually the remote receiver. Since it uses the mirror, it is possible that is your problem if you are trying to start the set with the remote power button only. Try starting the set from the
front panel...or put the mirror back in!

Joe
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post #41 of 92 Old 05-02-2011, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Right, the mirror bounces the IR from your remote onto that sensor. Without the mirror it will just sit there.

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post #42 of 92 Old 05-03-2011, 03:28 AM
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Ok guys, that makes perfect sense. Except for the fact that I had my wife use the front panel controls, and not the remote. The idea was to fire it up without the mirror and let it run for a while and wait for any failures if any. Instead I got no function AND no failures heheh.
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post #43 of 92 Old 05-03-2011, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, since you seem to be still interested in having the unit work, you could consider sending me the board and going with the original plan you embarked upon when you called me a few weeks ago about it -

Since you have been into it several times now, I have no idea what to expect when and if it gets here. If you had sent it in when the symptoms were first present, and without your having been into it at all doing your own soldering, I could be much more predictive of its present condition and of what to expect when it would get here.



But I am willing to look at it even so, provided you are willing to work with me on it and stop trying to do it yourself, which evidently has not worked for you. Just contact me directly - no pm's please - and we'll work something out -


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post #44 of 92 Old 05-05-2011, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProAudio5 View Post

Ok guys, that makes perfect sense. Except for the fact that I had my wife use the front panel controls, and not the remote. The idea was to fire it up without the mirror and let it run for a while and wait for any failures if any. Instead I got no function AND no failures heheh.

So, I assume this is the case, but I will ask anyway... when you use the remote, the main power and standby functions are combined into a single button... When yoy use the front panel, pressing in the main power only puts the TV back in its previous operating state...which for you was safe standby. You then have to hit the on/standby button to the right of the main power button to come out of standby.

You can also use the standby button to override safe mode by holding it... but if yo do this, you risk damaging something permanently if the power supply board is bad. I know this from experience.

Joe
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post #45 of 92 Old 05-05-2011, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Actually Joe, the main power button on the left of the front panel is the master, the Power On button the slave. As is the remote's version, both of which are temp on buttons. Without the master Power button punched in, neither the remote's nor the panels' temp power-on button will make anything turn on.

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post #46 of 92 Old 05-05-2011, 02:10 PM
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Mr. Bob is correct, and I knew that this could be done to over-ride the safety, but somehow I thought it would not be a good idea to do so.

@Mr. Bob: I'm in deep financial trouble, and although I would LOVE to employ your services, I can't afford to employ you to fix the set right now. As we spoke on the phone I told you I would compensate you for your consultation, and I meant it. However, now is simply not a good time as I simply do not have the money.

-Alan
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post #47 of 92 Old 05-05-2011, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Actually Joe, the main power button on the left of the front panel is the master, the Power On button the slave. As is the remote's version, both of which are temp on buttons. Without the master Power button punched in, neither the remote's nor the panels' temp power-on button will make anything turn on.

b

Yes. Yes, of course. Thanks. This is what happens whenh I grab my ipad and try to be helpful without looking at the set. I have two Elites of my own that I fixed...obviously I know how to turn them on.

I guess what I am getting at, Alan, is it is time to make a decision. Either go for it and hope for the best...or stop bothering Bob. He can't help you much more without spending serious time == $$...

The override for me resulted in scorching the phosphorus face of one of my CRTs. But I then knew exactly what was wrong. For the first set, I wound up buying two boards. I the got a second set, and fixed it with spare parts I bought from another poster on here. That first set was an expensive learning curve. I made up for it on the second set...and by getting paid for fixing 3 other local Elite sets with the PS problem...so it worked out for me.

Bob can save you a lot of time and trouble. If you cant afford to fix it, it might be less aggravation to just let it go. Just honest advice from a stranger. Good luck.

Joe
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post #48 of 92 Old 05-06-2011, 12:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProAudio5 View Post

Mr. Bob is correct, and I knew that this could be done to over-ride the safety, but somehow I thought it would not be a good idea to do so.

I didn't know this, and am glad to now know. But I agree, it is not a wise move to disable a protection system. You only do that as a last resort, and with 100% watchfulness as to what happens next, so you can take instant action. If Joe had done so, he might have been able to save that CRT whose phosphors got quickly scorched upon turn-on due to lack of sweep. I have done the same myself on a Mit in a different context - no protection was involved, just my own inattention - and know that things can happen so quickly that had we taken action 3 seconds sooner, disaster coulda been averted.

Quote:


@Mr. Bob: I'm in deep financial trouble, and although I would LOVE to employ your services, I can't afford to employ you to fix the set right now. As we spoke on the phone I told you I would compensate you for your consultation, and I meant it. However, now is simply not a good time as I simply do not have the money.

-Alan

I understand, Alan, thank you for reminding me of your promise and that you intend to keep it at such time as you can. Keep in touch and don't give up hope on your set -

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post #49 of 92 Old 05-06-2011, 03:41 AM
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Thank you in return, Bob, for your understanding. I will give you a call in the near future to discuss arrangements to compensate you for your time and attention.

-A
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post #50 of 92 Old 05-06-2011, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Appreciate that -



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post #51 of 92 Old 06-01-2011, 09:24 AM
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OK, I'm back, this time with sad news that may benefit other Pro-Series owners who wish to maintain their RPTV sets.

Unfortunately we had a rather serious boiler issue in the garage where I have been storing my PRO-610HD. While working on the boiler I tripped and fell on the mirror, cracking the bottom left corner. The mirror has been disposed of.

So, this cinches it for my set, however the guns and boards are available. I will remove and ship. I would rather see these parts go to good use than send them to the landfill. Please PM or email me at proaudio 5 at hotmail dot com if interested.

Alan
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post #52 of 92 Old 06-01-2011, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Alan assures me that the guns have had very light duty, he bought her new and only drove her on Sunday. Like one movie a week, average, I think. I am sure those guns are virtually brand new!

Alan, I recommend you reprint your post here over at the main Pioneer Elite 510 Problems thread -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post18948575

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post #53 of 92 Old 06-02-2011, 03:07 AM
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Time is running out... I need this thing out of here PRONTO... It gets on my truck today or tomorrow if no takers for the parts...
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post #54 of 92 Old 06-02-2011, 09:49 AM
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Ok, disassembly is near completion. Power supply board is taken. Gun assembly is available as are photos. Lenticular screen is in PRISTENE condition. Convergence board and HV secondary supply also mint condition and available. Email me for photos: proaudio 5 at Hotmail dot com (spambot adversive please remove spaces) If you are looking for a chassis, are local and willing to pick up please let me know ASAP... Otherwise it gets the hydroulic treatment compliments of the town landfill.

-A
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post #55 of 92 Old 09-06-2011, 09:40 PM
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I have a 710 in perfect working order that I will be replacing soon with a 70X5FD. I had the contrast screen (I would call it the screen of infinite reflections) removed years ago and had the 710 calibrated by Eliab Alvarez de la Campa from Avical. I still have the screen.

This baby has been a dependable beast for years and is looking for a nice home. If anyone knows someone who might be interested, please PM me.
Thanks,
Jim
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post #56 of 92 Old 09-23-2011, 02:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Mostly professional grade work done by Pioneer, just not nearly enough of it







Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Not quite up to par - most pro techs know not to make their soldering work look like revolving guns on the Death Star...






Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Resoldered joints to keep solder fluidly connecting all points of the joint together






Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Some joints not redone at all by Pioneer, and some others redone by me. Can you tell which? Hint - Dull, thin and mottled = will eventually go out. Gleaming and glossy = will never go out






Uploaded with ImageShack.us

An entire section left unresoldered by Pioneer. One of many






Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Seemingly innocent original Pioneer factory solder joints, unresoldered by Pioneer in their rebuilt PS board






Uploaded with ImageShack.us

The truth - an accident waiting to happen. See the halos? These joints have already started their journey to the dark side. It's only a matter of time now before those cracks go 360 around the leg and cause a complete non-connection. Which could unground a voltage clamp in a voltage regulation circuit, exposing your set to runaway amounts of voltage downline from the power supply, which is what this board is






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More halos. These will take longer to go than others, but will eventually go. They have already begun to degrade.






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What happens to a super thin joint whose halos have already formed and are near going 360, when I have touched my soldering iron to it but before I have added the required solder






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More unsoldered areas






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Verdict: If you trust your set to Pioneer's rebuilt boards, you'll be right back where you started soon, and this time it might not be the innocuous joints that let go. It could be the more advanced ones that will hit your set hard and possibly total it. The ones that let go early on are not the dangerous ones, it's the later ones that get you.

The blue flash is a warning shot across the bow. If you don't heed that warning and continue using your set in a normal viewing fashion, you're playing Russian Roulette with it. The ones that happen after that are the much more serious ones. If you get only those joints that are presently bad taken care of, that exposes the later ones sooner, and with no further warning.

Recommendation: If you have somebody do it or you feel the need to do it yourself, be aware that 99% of the solder joints on that board need to be resoldered to professional grade level. If you have it done by them or do it yourself, you must insist on this. It's a tedious, time consuming job that takes hours and requires the best lighting and magnification - and the greatest of care to not allow even one solder bridge (or any other mistake) - but is the only way to get it done right, and permanently. If you are not professional grade at soldering and don't know anybody who is, let me take care of it for you. I'll do it the right way, and permanently restore your set to 100% solid reliability again. You also get a lifetime warranty on my work on this operation. I stand by my work on these PS boards forever.

b

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post #57 of 92 Old 11-25-2011, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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This was just posted on another thread, thought I'd share it with you here -


Quote:
Originally Posted by najames View Post

Holy Cow Dave Harper!!! You said ISF is in Florida, so I decided to see where they're located. They're about 5-10 minutes from my house!! Didn't even know it, too darned funny.

I have an elderly Pioneer SD-532HD5 like this one.

http://www4.shopping.com/xFS?KW=pion...Video&FD=85747

I might just need to have this thing calibrated some day. It works OK and has been moved across the country twice, in storage for a couple years, never been touched except when I used the Avia disk set it up initially and when I moved here in Boca Raton 3 years ago.

Just noticed this post in another thread, from way back in '05.

Just so you know, those "elderly" CRT RPTVs are not old, they have a 20 year service life - or more, I've seen it, recently heard about a 29 year old Panny CRT 50" that's still cranking away just fine - and at today's stage are only halfway thru it. I know of an "old" curved screen bounce-off-the-screen Sears CRT whose guns fire at the hinged mirror that you pull out and let fall into place to start it up, that's still cranking away just fine too. We've been looking for someone to take it home and keep it going, or hopefully get it to some sort of video museum, tho I have never actually heard of one...

Well treated by their owners re. usage, light levels and avoidance of screenburn, they are capable of WAY better than new performance at all ages, even at 11 years old.

I am being flown all over the country cleaning and calibrating these "elderly" beasts, which are capable of incredible HD, head and shoulders better than a lot of the "affordable" fixed pixel offerings out there in today's marketplace. And better looking in some ways than all fixed pixel offerings.

The main thing that not everybody knows about them is that their optics need to be cleaned yearly.

On some brands - like the Pioneers, be they Elite or non-Elite - the "deeper optics" need it every few years as well. That's because of the air gap between the lens barrels and the CRT coolant covers, where 6 additional surfaces get invaded by dust, soot, smoke and all manner of other airborn contaminants, and thus compromised because of the high voltage turning them into powerful, continuous dust magnets every moment they are powered on.

There's 28 optical surfaces in there that need to stay crystal clear, either 4 or 10 of which, depending on brand, get heavily compromised because of the HV. When all 28 surfaces are clean and polished and you have a crystal clear light path again, the results are truly astonishing. Like getting a brand new TV for a simple hour's work.

Just doing this one thing gives your "elderly" set a brand new looking picture - in my area my calibrations are called "The Sparkle Process" - and calibration after that is just incredible icing on the cake.

I started the "Don't Dump Your CRT RPTV!" thread here on AVS more than 5 years ago, and it is still going strong, with over 300 completed pages so far and over 9000 posts. If you have a CRT RPTV at all, HD or non-HD, I invite you to go over there and check it out.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...95922&page=327

If you have a CRT RPTV or know someone who does and want info about how to do your optics cleaning with no damage - those soft plastic surfaces in there are incredibly delicate, vulnerable and easily scratched, and any damage to them is permanent - contact me directly, by email or phone. No pm's please!

Thx -

Mr Bob

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post #58 of 92 Old 11-27-2011, 05:40 PM
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I recently purchased a new Oppo blu-ray player and decided to give my 510HD a quick tune-up in preparation for this new input. When I entered the service mode and brought up the convergence, all the modes seemed ok during a quick review; however, when I got to the 'H' mode (Full - HD), the horizontal convergence grid lines curved towards the corners and all three colors were disbanded around the edges of the TV.

I can easily go intersection to intersection and converge the green red and blue, but I am concerned about the horizontal lines curving. All other display modes are nice and square.

Is this normal in Full HD mode? I've attached an image of the lower left corner as I found it, showing how the horizontal convergence lines curve towards the corners.

Thanks.

Chris
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post #59 of 92 Old 11-28-2011, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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An overall grid shot would also be good. You say the same thing is happening in all 4 corners, but at opposite directions? Or same directions? We really need to see a full grid to know for sure.

What you're describing is vertical pincushion, and such a thing rarely happens just on 1 scanrate.

Whatever you do, don't change anything in there at this point esp. in service menu, where your original settings get wiped out once you memorize anything in there, till we know more. Could be that everything will fall back into place once this one thing has been remedied.

b

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post #60 of 92 Old 11-28-2011, 12:18 PM
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Hi there Mr. Bob!

Attached is the full screen. Yes, this is only happening in the Full HD mode. Although when watching HD content, I don't see a real issue.

Chris
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