2010 Mitsubishi 3D DLP Owners Thread (638 series) - Page 12 - AVS Forum
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post #331 of 1377 Old 12-18-2010, 08:51 AM
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Along those lines, I sent in for the rebate on the 3D starter pack and they said I sent in the wrong Serial Number. Can anyone tell me if this number is ONLY located on the back. There is a number in yellow printed under the A/V flip down in the front that looks like it could be. My TV is on my corner fireplace mantle and it would be a B1TC*Hto take down and turn around.
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post #332 of 1377 Old 12-18-2010, 09:46 AM
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Every once in a while I hear a popping or maybe clicking type noise coming from the tv. Nothing happens to the picture or anything. Is this normal?
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post #333 of 1377 Old 12-18-2010, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farnlc View Post

Along those lines, I sent in for the rebate on the 3D starter pack and they said I sent in the wrong Serial Number. Can anyone tell me if this number is ONLY located on the back. There is a number in yellow printed under the A/V flip down in the front that looks like it could be. My TV is on my corner fireplace mantle and it would be a B1TC*Hto take down and turn around.

Should be on box and warranty card.
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post #334 of 1377 Old 12-18-2010, 11:52 AM
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When I am watching cable I occasionally lose the picture for a second and get a black screen on my 65638. The TV then shows HDMI1 in the corner and then the picture comes back. Is this most likely caused by a bad HDMI cable? I haven't seen it happen with my other video sources (e.g., Roku, DVD), but I might not watch them frequently or long enough to see this happen. All sources are using HDMI cables through my VSX-1120-k AVR and then I use a single HDMI cable to the TV. Is there a good way to track this down other than changing cables or eliminating other variables such as the receiver? It is very hard to get behind my TV and AVR to make these changes, so I thought I would ask here before I hurt myself climbing behind my setup.
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post #335 of 1377 Old 12-18-2010, 08:16 PM
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I've had my 65638 for about a week- and find the picture great with the Natural setting. It's quite bright enough, and very sharp and detailed. But then again, this is the first HD set I've owned, so maybe that's why the picture looks great to me.

My question is relative to how it starts up at power on. The sound comes on quickly, the Mitsu splash comes on after a while, then the picture appears on the screen after several seconds.

But the picture is dim for some seconds - quickly improving to great.

Is this dim at the start normal? I don't fully remember what it did when I first turned it on with the factory settings, i.e. Brillant. I remember the picture delay, but I don't recall that it was noticeably dim for a few seconds.

Thanks
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post #336 of 1377 Old 12-18-2010, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shibez View Post

For one the TV is far more brighter on that mode... and there is no settings other than the default contrast and Brightness which is 100 and 50.

Also Ive noticed the TV started up much louder on brilliant..on natural I cant hear a thing...it's obviously compensating for the Bulb getting brighter/Hotter

Lucid you said that you were getting numbers near 80 for the color in natural... OK well Ive come up with these settings For anyone to try on NATURAL ...They're Very close to Brilliant minus that little extra brightness that i see on Brilliant.

Anyone who is saying Natural is Too DULL ...There Is NO way this could be dull...

o Picture Mode : Natural
o Color Temperature : Low
o Aspect Ratio/Format : Standard
* Picture Settings
o Contrast : 82
o Brightness : 60
o Color : 80
o Tint : 11
o Sharpness : 31
o Color Temperature : Low
o Video Noise : Off

Again these are keeping with the 6500k standard going by eye watching Avatar

Thanks for posting this I'm pretty close to these except I left the color about 72. Looks great!
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post #337 of 1377 Old 12-19-2010, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by RGoldberg View Post

Thanks for posting this I'm pretty close to these except I left the color about 72. Looks great!

I tried your setting of 72 for the color and I actually liked it...I did some more fidgeting with these settings and I came up with these.

o Picture Mode : Natural
o Color Temperature : Low
o Aspect Ratio/Format : Standard
* Picture Settings
o Contrast : 88
o Brightness : 56
o Color : 72
o Tint : 24
o Sharpness : 31
o Color Temperature : Low
o Video Noise : Off

I try to get the brightness a little above the default because in dark scenes its hard to make out faces/content...doing this washes out the picture so i am constantly trying to find a middle ground. I think 56 is good.

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post #338 of 1377 Old 12-19-2010, 12:05 AM
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*** See my new settings on page 13 ***
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post #339 of 1377 Old 12-19-2010, 03:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boozcruz33 View Post

When I am watching cable I occasionally lose the picture for a second and get a black screen on my 65638. The TV then shows HDMI1 in the corner and then the picture comes back. Is this most likely caused by a bad HDMI cable? I haven't seen it happen with my other video sources (e.g., Roku, DVD), but I might not watch them frequently or long enough to see this happen. All sources are using HDMI cables through my VSX-1120-k AVR and then I use a single HDMI cable to the TV. Is there a good way to track this down other than changing cables or eliminating other variables such as the receiver? It is very hard to get behind my TV and AVR to make these changes, so I thought I would ask here before I hurt myself climbing behind my setup.

I am seeing this same issue when I route the ps3 hdmi via my onkyo receiver. Any ideas on how to fix this problem.

P.s. I dont see this issue when I connect the cable directly to the tv
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post #340 of 1377 Old 12-19-2010, 08:17 AM
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sweet lucid thank you very much taking time doing this "semi pro" calibration.

im excited to look over all the settings

I just want to get confirmation that for the brilliant modes these are negative numbers for the tint you were getting?

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post #341 of 1377 Old 12-19-2010, 11:27 AM
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What is everyone using for their hdmi color space setting from their cableb/sat boxes?

Mine was on RGB I tried it on yccc or whatever it is but the color seamed too intense and over the top at the settings the tv was at based on RGB.

I have read conflicting information on that setting.
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post #342 of 1377 Old 12-19-2010, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgiants View Post

What is everyone using for their hdmi color space setting from their cableb/sat boxes?

Mine was on RGB I tried it on yccc or whatever it is but the color seamed too intense and over the top at the settings the tv was at based on RGB.

I have read conflicting information on that setting.

i dont believe i have that setting my HD cable box. I have the explorer 8300HD

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post #343 of 1377 Old 12-19-2010, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shibez View Post

sweet lucid thank you very much taking time doing this "semi pro" calibration.

im excited to look over all the settings

I just want to get confirmation that for the brilliant modes these are negative numbers for the tint you were getting?

Yes, they are negative numbers for tint. That shocked me as well but once I viewed content with them it looked good. I also don't know why your fan kicked in higher when starting up when set to Brilliant since the lamp output is the same for all picture modes. So don't worry about bulb life, it will be the same regardless of the picture mode you select. Remember, the video processing is done before it hits the light engine.

I think Mitsubishi did the customers of the C10/638 series of sets a huge disservice by not providing a "Neutral" Color Temperature setting for each picture mode. Without the individual color adjustments it's not possible to accurately dial in this set. So you have to live with a "Low" (Warm) or "High" (Cool) Color Temperature setting. Ideally, I'd like a "Neutral" Color Temperature (not to be confused with the natural picture mode) - between Low (Warm - yellowish) and High (Cool - blueish), since I find myself changing between Brilliant Low and High depending on the content I'm viewing. If a Neutral Color Temperature was available then I wouldn't need to do that. Hopefully I can use my PC to calibrate things further to get the color temperature more neutral.

The C9 didn't have this issue since it had individual color adjustments and used the same video processor chip as the higher end models. Mitsubishi purposely crippled the lower end series of HDTVs by using a less quality video processor this year but didn't factor in that the set would need a neutral color temperature mode to make up for the lack of individual color adjustments. This is the first year that the C/38 series used a lower end video processor chip so they probably didn't have time to include that setting or didn't realize the impacts of crippling the lower end sets with no individual color adjustments.

Don't get me wrong, these are great sets for the money paid (if you get them heavily discounted/on sale). Anyone needing proof of that just needs to watch a 3D animated Blu-ray movie on these sets to be blown away. And even with a neutral color temperature we still wouldn't be able to accurately calibrate these sets like the higher end models but that additional mode would allow for more universal handling of the various kinds of content.

I'm not going to use this as my primary HDTV for the long haul, just for about 3 years. At that time I'll probably move it into the bedroom where one doesn't need to be that critical about their HDTV. But if the price difference wasn't so much (over 90% more for the 738 series and over more 150% for the 838 series) then I would get one of the higher end models. I just couldn't see making an investment in the higher end sets considering that full frame DLP chips (to allow for full HD resolution 3D) are just around the corner. Also, the full frame DLP chips will add more picture clarity and higher resolution (if wobbulation is still used). Also 3D will get better over the next few years so there's no reason to invest a lot in a HDTV for that feature at this point in time.

Either way, the picture quality is more than acceptable for most people. I'm just super critical when it comes to video (same for audio). But even with that said, I can easily live with this set considering the price paid. And that's saying a lot since I could easily afford the higher end models.
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post #344 of 1377 Old 12-19-2010, 12:59 PM
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well thanks to you lucid i think i found my permanent settings. I'm going with your Brilliant "low" settings with your calibrated color...and I just kicked the brightness up a few notches for those Dark Scenes. '

watching football right now and it looks great. just got a couple new blurays today so i Will be testing it in 1080p later...cant wait

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post #345 of 1377 Old 12-19-2010, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shibez View Post

well thanks to you lucid i think i found my permanent settings. I'm going with your Brilliant "low" settings with your calibrated color...and I just kicked the brightness up a few notches for those Dark Scenes. '

watching football right now and it looks great. just got a couple new blurays today so i Will be testing it in 1080p later...cant wait

Update i noticed as i was watching the bills dolphins game that I wasnt seeing Orange correctly...not on the the dolphins helmets or a paused shot of the orange gartorade coolers...as it was paused i was messing with tint and got something like positive 20

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post #346 of 1377 Old 12-19-2010, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shibez View Post

well thanks to you lucid i think i found my permanent settings. I'm going with your Brilliant "low" settings with your calibrated color...and I just kicked the brightness up a few notches for those Dark Scenes. '

watching football right now and it looks great. just got a couple new blurays today so i Will be testing it in 1080p later...cant wait

If you wish to treat the set as a digital display (like a PC) then you can set it to a Brightness of 51. Any higher than that and you are amplifying absolute black - making it gray. Again, this is content specific. But I would use something between 42-51.
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post #347 of 1377 Old 12-19-2010, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shibez View Post

Update i noticed as i was watching the bills dolphins game that I wasnt seeing Orange correctly...not on the the dolphins helmets or a paused shot of the orange gartorade coolers...as it was paused i was messing with tint and got something like positive 20

That's the problem with these sets, you can't get all colors accurate with a tint only adjustment. But pushing the tint to 20 will offset other colors. The tint values I gave are from reference patterns which use accurate colors. If I so much as pushed the tint up or down one then it was off - using a blue film to look through at the test pattern. So that's how much off you'll be by setting it to 20. Video levels on TV/Shows/Sports/movies varies greatly so there's no one correct setting - unless you adjust for each TV/Show/Sport/Movie. For me, the colors are fine with the tint values I gave. The only exception to that is picture warmth or coolness, which does effect the colors - look at how the colors differ when using Low vs. High. If I can dial that to be in between the two (neutral) then I'll have the set at the ideal setup, at least for me. But that will require an external device to further the calibration.

Orange Test - If you have the Despicable Me animated movie, you'll clearly see that orange is set correctly. Just look at the guy wearing the orange outfit, the V on top of his house, etc.. Also a good red test is when the guy walks into an all red hallway/room. Adjust your color levels based on those reds and you'll have accurate saturation levels set but they'll look weak for some shows/movies.

That's the great thing about animated movies, they have dead on color accuracy. It's also why they look so dang good on HDTVs. Throw any other content on a set and it's a mixed bag as to how it will look. For over the air/cable TV it's even worse with re-compressing which is also probably doing additional video processing on the source video.
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post #348 of 1377 Old 12-19-2010, 02:41 PM
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FYI - While I seen a change in calibration using a Sharpness of 68 it appears that level of sharpening produces video effects on low-bandwidth video. For me, it's a toss between leaving it on 0 or 31. Also, video noise reduction is content specific but find for most TV material that medium or high works best. Of course, you can leave it off if you're not bothered by the video noise or sit far enough away that you don't notice it.
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post #349 of 1377 Old 12-19-2010, 03:06 PM
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Am I correct in finding that the C10 will not pass through multichannel audio to a receiver under any configuration?

I have cable hooked up to the set using HDMI, then the digital coax out to my receiver, and none of the broadcasts that are Dolby Digital are passing through as such to the receiver.

Both the limited number of HDMI inputs (2) and the fact that my receiver does not pass through the signal when off (and I don't want to always have the receiver on when watching TV) prevent me from running the cable box directly to the receiver then to the TV.
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post #350 of 1377 Old 12-19-2010, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucid69 View Post

That's the problem with these sets, you can't get all colors accurate with a tint only adjustment. But pushing the tint to 20 will offset other colors. The tint values I gave are from reference patterns which use accurate colors. If I so much as pushed the tint up or down one then it was off - using a blue film to look through at the test pattern. So that's how much off you'll be by setting it to 20. Video levels on TV/Shows/Sports/movies varies greatly so there's no one correct setting - unless you adjust for each TV/Show/Sport/Movie. For me, the colors are fine with the tint values I gave. The only exception to that is picture warmth or coolness, which does effect the colors - look at how the colors differ when using Low vs. High. If I can dial that to be in between the two (neutral) then I'll have the set at the ideal setup, at least for me. But that will require an external device to further the calibration.

Orange Test - If you have the Despicable Me animated movie, you'll clearly see that orange is set correctly. Just look at the guy wearing the orange outfit, the V on top of his house, etc.. Also a good red test is when the guy walks into an all red hallway/room. Adjust your color levels based on those reds and you'll have accurate saturation levels set but they'll look weak for some shows/movies.

That's the great thing about animated movies, they have dead on color accuracy. It's also why they look so dang good on HDTVs. Throw any other content on a set and it's a mixed bag as to how it will look. For over the air/cable TV it's even worse with re-compressing which is also probably doing additional video processing on the source video.

ok I trust your correct...other than the orange everything else looked great

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post #351 of 1377 Old 12-19-2010, 03:31 PM
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ok I trust your correct...other than the orange everything else looked great

Watch some night time NFL football. I find daytime NFL football video quality to be sub-standard. You're also dealing with sunlight which changes during the game and will effect colors. So if the cameras are not adjusted to compensate then the colors won't look right. With night time NFL football that's not an issue since the lights are controlled and constant throughout the game. Also, since it's being viewed in prime time they give a lot more attention to detail - better cameras/setup/etc. are done/used for those games. But a true test is viewing a recent animated blu-ray movie like Despicable Me, Toy Story 3, Avatar, etc..
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post #352 of 1377 Old 12-19-2010, 03:38 PM
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The problem is we have a Digital Cable Box and we do not know how to get the t.v. hooked up to the internet so we can access the preloaded apps such as VooDoo, Facebook, etc... Is there anyway you can assist us so we can get hooked up to the internet. We have RoadRunner High Speed Cable and Time Warner. My daughter is helping me so please help us!
I sure appreciate it.
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post #353 of 1377 Old 12-19-2010, 03:41 PM
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The problem is we have a Digital Cable Box and we do not know how to get the t.v. hooked up to the internet so we can access the preloaded apps such as VooDoo, Facebook, etc... Is there anyway you can assist us so we can get hooked up to the internet. We have RoadRunner High Speed Cable and Time Warner. My daughter is helping me so please help us!
I sure appreciate it.

The C10 and 638 series of sets don't have any internet features. The 738 and 838 series do and to get them all you have to do is connect a ethernet cable to the HDTV, just as you would to your PC.
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post #354 of 1377 Old 12-19-2010, 03:42 PM
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Lucid, thank you so much...I have a 60638 hopefully arriving on Tuesday and a DVDO Edge coming on Wednesday along with a DVE Blu-Ray disc. Looking forward to tweaking this set...already printed out the service manual, now I just need to find that straightedge! (guess I'll trust my basic plastic level).

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post #355 of 1377 Old 12-19-2010, 03:54 PM
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Lucid, thank you so much...I have a 60638 hopefully arriving on Tuesday and a DVDO Edge coming on Wednesday along with a DVE Blu-Ray disc. Looking forward to tweaking this set...already printed out the service manual, now I just need to find that straightedge! (guess I'll trust my basic plastic level).

That DVDO Edge will come in handy on your new HDTV. Let me know what you end up with calibration on both the HDTV and DVDO Edge. I might be able to use the DVDO Edge color values on the PC, they are after all full color range devices so the color value range is the same. Once I play around with some PC settings I'll post them here.
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post #356 of 1377 Old 12-19-2010, 04:11 PM
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Thanks Lucid for those settings.

I did my first calibration with my Digital Video Essentials blu ray and it has very few instructions and what the patterns mean. I prefer the natural setting and my numbers were quite close to yours expect for contrast. The DVE blu-ray explained that some tv's may go whiter than white and it was quite confusing because I didn''t know if this tv would go whiter than white and with the contrast pattern it makes a huge difference. I had my contrast set to 50 because I couldn't tell what was correct or not; the colors had a serious lack of "pop". Now it looks 100x better.

I'm even more impressed with how brilliant looks when dialed in which I'm sure a lot of people will find suit their viewing tastes more.

Good job and thanks again.
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post #357 of 1377 Old 12-19-2010, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by pioneercrazed View Post

Thanks Lucid for those settings.

I did my first calibration with my Digital Video Essentials blu ray and it has very few instructions and what the patterns mean. I prefer the natural setting and my numbers were quite close to yours expect for contrast. The DVE blu-ray explained that some tv's may go whiter than white and it was quite confusing because I didn''t know if this tv would go whiter than white and with the contrast pattern it makes a huge difference. I had my contrast set to 50 because I couldn't tell what was correct or not; the colors had a serious lack of "pop". Now it looks 100x better.

I'm even more impressed with how brilliant looks when dialed in which I'm sure a lot of people will find suit their viewing tastes more.

Good job and thanks again.

I don't think they were talking about whites going whiter but rather if you push the contrast it will make light grays white which is the opposite of black crush...could call it white crush or over blowing/over exposing the image.

If you want to play around with contrast you can use a Brightness setting of 53 and a contrast of 80. At those levels you'll still have absolute black and a little bit more brightness, at the cost of a lower contrast. If you want to leave contrast at 50 then you'd need to increase the Brightness to 57. You can play around with those values if you want. But that might throw of the calibrations I gave since you're suppose to calibrate Contrast/Brightness before Color/Tint.
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post #358 of 1377 Old 12-19-2010, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucid69 View Post

I don't think they were talking about whites going whiter but rather if you push the contrast it will make light grays white which is the opposite of black crush...could call it white crush or over blowing/over exposing the image.

If you want to play around with contrast you can use a Brightness setting of 53 and a contrast of 80. At those levels you'll still have absolute black and a little bit more brightness, at the cost of a lower contrast. If you want to leave contrast at 50 then you'd need to increase the Brightness to 57. You can play around with those values if you want. But that might throw of the calibrations I gave since you're suppose to calibrate Contrast/Brightness before Color/Tint.

Okay, that makes more sense...

I've pretty much ditched my settings and gone with your's. I did have it around 50 contrast 54 brightness I believe but the lack of contrast seriously compromises picture quality in that everything looks extremely dull.

One thing I liked with the DVE is that use of the blue filter it came with, first time I've done that. The green and the red filter looked pretty close to but I'm assuming the blue is the most important since that's the color it says to use.
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post #359 of 1377 Old 12-19-2010, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by pioneercrazed View Post

Okay, that makes more sense...

I've pretty much ditched my settings and gone with your's. I did have it around 50 contrast 54 brightness I believe but the lack of contrast seriously compromises picture quality in that everything looks extremely dull.

One thing I liked with the DVE is that use of the blue filter it came with, first time I've done that. The green and the red filter looked pretty close to but I'm assuming the blue is the most important since that's the color it says to use.

Back in the day (analog/component signals) I used Time Base Correctors to adjust the video and used a Vector Scope and Waveform monitor as a way to verify the adjustments. This was also necessary when doing multiple camera shoots to get two or more cameras to have the same video characteristics/quality. With the proper hardware and adjustments it's easy to get things calibrated. But that's video production/editing land, something that people rarely know about or use for home.

I guess you could think of the DVDO Edge as a more advanced TBC (Time Base Corrector). And if you could take the TV output signal and run it through the right equipment you could get a perfectly calibrated HDTV. So long as the internal HDTV video processor doesn't restrict adjustments by any processing it does (no way to disable it - other than use the natural setting). Usually you put the vectorscope/waveform monitor after the TBC but before the TV - but since the TV is the end source you need to do it differently. Doing it the normal way you can edit video on a black and white monitor or non-calibrated monitor since you know the signal is within spec/range because of the vectorscope/waveform monitor.
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post #360 of 1377 Old 12-19-2010, 06:34 PM
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I added "Bright" calibrated settings to my original posting above.
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