92" Mitsubishi DLP @ CES!!! - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 1927 Old 08-29-2011, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Understood, but simply switching to 240hz won't help matters here. The issue here is the video processor they're using, not the DLP technology as witnessed by DLP front projectors that handle 24hz signals just fine. But your statement that "120 hz is not a multiple of 24" is incorrect and there are displays out there that do 5:5 with 24hz content. There's no reason why Mitsubishi couldn't upgrade their video processing to resolve this, though I suspect it would require hardware changes, so we shouldn't expect to see this changed with a firmware update.

In a hurry I shortcutted my answer. What I meant to say is that unlike whole multiples of 24...e.g. 48, 96, etc....that 120 hz in the case of Mits DLPs is not 5:5, nor 5 x 24. It is 120 as a multiple of 60 (3:2), not a whole multiple of 24. If you went to the source article I posted it is mentioned that it some 120 hz displays can do true 5:5...but the Mits does not.

Of course Mits could design it as 5:5...but they did not. The whole point was to see what might contribute to the judder and other motion artifacts, and I'll say it again...3:2 (or 6:4) doesn't help.

Active shutter 3D would benefit not only from 5:5, but also from a higher rate...like 240 hz (@ 5:5). The higher rate the better for 3D, based on what I have read.

There are some designs for passive 3D that might overcome the drop in resolution, as picture brightness is another factor that contributes to a satisfying 3D experience.

From Wikipedia:

Nowadays, most HDTV vendors sell LCD televisions in NTSC/ATSC countries capable of 120 Hz or 240 Hz refresh rates and plasma sets capable of 48, 72, or 96 Hz refresh.[10] When combined with a 1080p24-capable source (such as most Blu-ray Disc players), some of these sets are able to display film-based content using a pulldown scheme of whole multiples of 24, thereby avoiding the problems associated with 2:3 pulldown or the 4% speed-up used in PAL countries. For example, a 1080p 120 Hz set which accepts a 1080p24 input can achieve 5:5 pulldown by simply repeating each frame five times and thus not exhibit picture artifacts associated with telecine judder.
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post #902 of 1927 Old 08-29-2011, 11:11 AM
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Can any fellow new owners post a pic of their cable/satellite box program guide, or something similar? I want to compare sag to make sure I'm in the norm.

Also, has anyone put one of these beasts on a Synergy stand? I'm wondering how stable the base is. I'm still using the bottom of the carton (the cardboard pallet) as my stand.
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post #903 of 1927 Old 08-29-2011, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viktor Nacht View Post

Can any fellow new owners post a pic of their cable/satellite box program guide, or something similar? I want to compare sag to make sure I'm in the norm.

Also, has anyone put one of these beasts on a Synergy stand? I'm wondering how stable the base is. I'm still using the bottom of the carton (the cardboard pallet) as my stand.

Viktor Nacht:

As the first on the thread to get one of these Leviathans, how do you like your picture so far? Any great movie experiences with it?

How is off axis viewing, overall sharpness, and contrast?

Thanks!
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post #904 of 1927 Old 08-29-2011, 11:34 AM
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@Victor,
is this what you needed ?

[IMG][/IMG]
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post #905 of 1927 Old 08-29-2011, 11:50 AM
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My 92" is on two identical stands (from Walmart) 20" high, 19.5" deep.
I am 14' away from the sceen, works just fine for me.
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post #906 of 1927 Old 08-29-2011, 12:48 PM
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Here's a link to a page on our forum which examines the whole notion of telecine and pulldown as it applies to active shutter 3D on a 3:2 setup.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1216452&page=3

Post # 90 bywalt73 may have an interesting bearing on the problems encountered here.

3D works best when each eye is receiving its information for the same amount of time. In a way (and I'm not being technical) you need symmetry.

In the meantime, some have found some amelioration from the problem by turning sharpness way down. Possibly that would help.
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post #907 of 1927 Old 08-29-2011, 02:47 PM
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For the lucky owners, would love feedback on how this would be for a day-to-day TV. Wife and I are concerned that 92" is too big for normal viewing (regular shows, news, etc.) I know this is a very subjective question, but sitting about 11-12 feet away is this a comfortable size for non movie/sports viewing?
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post #908 of 1927 Old 08-29-2011, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

Viktor Nacht:

As the first on the thread to get one of these Leviathans, how do you like your picture so far? Any great movie experiences with it?

How is off axis viewing, overall sharpness, and contrast?

Thanks!

I'm reticent to say too much because I'm not an expert and I don't want to turn anyone on or off to the TV and have them regret their decision. And my opinions are purely subjective. But you asked.

That said, I still love it. The bowing took me by surprise and occasionally annoys me, but if I give up the OCD and just enjoy the immersiveness I'm still wowed. Ignoring the reflections during the day is second nature now, and to me the TV is perfectly watchable and gameable by day. Movies don't really work without good light control during the day, but really shine at night.

I have no complaints about the brightness using the Bright setting. I had friends over for a movie night and gave them the prime seats, and at 9' away at a 40 degree angle I felt like I got the full experience. The Brilliant setting is offensively ugly, but it also proves you could make it even brighter if you needed it or calibrated it.

Getting back to the bowing, I think mine is a little more severe than the one example I've seen so far, so I might bring it up with Mits. I had to laugh, the bluray DVD we watched was letterboxed, so the offending parts of the screen were a complete non-issue. Like someone else said, they were smart to put the menu right in the middle of the screen. I notice the bowing most in cartoons like Phineas and Ferb or in some video games.

I have 4 pairs of X103 universals on the way to start playing with the 3D. And although I have room to go back another 5', I think I'm going to leave my seating at 9'. It really pulls you in and makes the HD look great.

V
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post #909 of 1927 Old 08-29-2011, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

Viktor Nacht:
How is off axis viewing,

Take a look at this video at about 35ish seconds, and you'll see it from a really hard angle off to the right, and it still looks great. I also try to show how *awful* the vertical off-axis viewing is, but its hard to tell when I'm looking up and down at the screen. But I think the side-to-side is helpful.

http://s1101.photobucket.com/albums/...t=MVI_4256.mp4
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post #910 of 1927 Old 08-29-2011, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonsai418 View Post

@Victor,
is this what you needed ?

Thank you, that was helpful. Definitely see some bowing. Seems a little better, but that might the style of the menus.

This is what mine looks like, in case you missed it (or are even interested :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post20830375
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post #911 of 1927 Old 08-29-2011, 03:10 PM
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I apologize if this is off-topic.

This is THE Monolith on The Monolith:



Meta.

V
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post #912 of 1927 Old 08-29-2011, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StompAWOT View Post

For the lucky owners, would love feedback on how this would be for a day-to-day TV. Wife and I are concerned that 92" is too big for normal viewing (regular shows, news, etc.) I know this is a very subjective question, but sitting about 11-12 feet away is this a comfortable size for non movie/sports viewing?

We use our 92" for every day viewing, I don't think it is to big for that.
We sit 14' away.
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post #913 of 1927 Old 08-29-2011, 08:08 PM
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I showed the wide and my oldest son who is four some 3D today from DirecTV. Both of them were THRILLED with it. My son said it feels like he is in the TV.

The best show so far was this one where a group went under the water to catch some fish, animals, etc. They are in this submarine type of thing and at one point these 4 red lasers are activated and look like they are actually shooting out at you. It was unreal and so amazing I had to watch it again and again. The claw on the submarine also looked like it was taking up our entire living room.

Football also looks great, especially in the shots where they show the field and first 20 rows from behind. It literally feels and looks like you are in the 21st row behind everyone.

A truly unreal experience. Cannot wait for more! Going to get my brother over tomorrow night. Make sure you switch to Brilliant mode with contrast all the way up to get the most "pop" of 3D!
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post #914 of 1927 Old 08-29-2011, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruson View Post

I showed the wide and my oldest son who is four some 3D today from DirecTV. Both of them were THRILLED with it. My son said it feels like he is in the TV.

The best show so far was this one where a group went under the water to catch some fish, animals, etc. They are in this submarine type of thing and at one point these 4 red lasers are activated and look like they are actually shooting out at you. It was unreal and so amazing I had to watch it again and again. The claw on the submarine also looked like it was taking up our entire living room.

Football also looks great, especially in the shots where they show the field and first 20 rows from behind. It literally feels and looks like you are in the 21st row behind everyone.

A truly unreal experience. Cannot wait for more! Going to get my brother over tomorrow night. Make sure you switch to Brilliant mode with contrast all the way up to get the most "pop" of 3D!

That's great news. If you visit the Laservue 75 inch thread it almost seems that some people who saw the 92 unfavorably saw a suboptimal model in a suboptimal setting. All the people who actually have the 92 inch sets are floored by them.

Have you watched any broadcast live action 3D movies? (sorry if I missed any earlier references to this.)
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post #915 of 1927 Old 08-30-2011, 01:24 AM
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Hi all.

To all readers, owners & potential buyers.

I've been awaiting the 92 inch ever since CES.

But to my surprise, it seems that Mitsubishi has dropped Deep Field Imager and Dark Detailer.

I own the 65 837 Diamond. I've seen the difference with Deep Field Imager on and off. I would not watch my tv without it on.

I'm disappointed. I was planning on getting that 92 inch but I don't want to sacrifice anything my old trusty 837 has got me used to.

What's the deal? Why does the 92 inch not have Deep Field Imager?

As from what I've learned Deep Field Imager is a great asset it adds clarity and more HD visuals for me.

And Dark Detailer, it's supposed to give Silky Dark Blacks and not lose detail in dark stuff like in the Blade Trilogy or Rise of the Lycans movies.

I don't want to give up those features.

I know those features are not in use in 3D mode.
So the 92 Inch is ideal for 3D. But I want the total package. It seems they cut those two features from the 92 inch to downgrade cost maybe.

But 82 840 has them. Why not the 92840?

I don't think the screen is going to do what those two features do. So inform me please.


Why are those two features sacrificed on the 92 inch?
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post #916 of 1927 Old 08-30-2011, 01:37 AM
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Hi all.

To all readers, owners & potential buyers.

I've been awaiting the 92 inch ever since CES.

But to my surprise, it seems that Mitsubishi has dropped Deep Field Imager and Dark Detailer.

I own the 65 837 Diamond. I've seen the difference with Deep Field Imager on and off. I would not watch my tv without it on.

I'm disappointed. I was planning on getting that 92 inch but I don't want to sacrifice anything my old trusty 837 has got me used to.

What's the deal? Why does the 92 inch not have Deep Field Imager?

As from what I've learned Deep Field Imager is a great asset it adds clarity and more HD visuals for me.

And Dark Detailer, it's supposed to give Silky Dark Blacks and not lose detail in dark stuff like in the Blade Trilogy or Rise of the Lycans movies.

I don't want to give up those features.

I know those features are not in use in 3D mode.
So the 92 Inch is ideal for 3D. But I want the total package. It seems they cut those two features from the 92 inch to downgrade cost maybe.

But 82 840 has them. Why not the 92840?

I don't think the screen is going to do what those two features do. So inform me please.


Why are those two features sacrificed on the 92 inch?
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post #917 of 1927 Old 08-30-2011, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrecool View Post


But to my surprise, it seems that Mitsubishi has dropped Deep Field Imager and Dark Detailer.

I own the 65 837 Diamond. I've seen the difference with Deep Field Imager on and off. I would not watch my tv without it on.

I'm disappointed. I was planning on getting that 92 inch but I don't want to sacrifice anything my old trusty 837 has got me used to.

Why are those two features sacrificed on the 92 inch?

Possibly because they may not be needed with the Clear Contrast Screen and other changes in the 92. Owners have reported excellent blacks and contrast.

You really need to see one in person, rather than judge any display by specs on paper. Many people anticipated that the 92 would be less bright than last years' 82 because on paper they appear to have the same or similar bulb. However, the new models are brighter. You always need to see a display in person.
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post #918 of 1927 Old 08-30-2011, 05:42 AM
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To be blunt many if not most of us turn that crap off anyway as it has a negative imapact on image quality.

Just another blank signature.
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post #919 of 1927 Old 08-30-2011, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonsai418 View Post

My 92" is on two identical stands (from Walmart) 20" high, 19.5" deep.
I am 14' away from the sceen, works just fine for me.

Man is that thing big !! Stand look good
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruson View Post

I showed the wide and my oldest son who is four some 3D today from DirecTV. Both of them were THRILLED with it. My son said it feels like he is in the TV.

The best show so far was this one where a group went under the water to catch some fish, animals, etc. They are in this submarine type of thing and at one point these 4 red lasers are activated and look like they are actually shooting out at you. It was unreal and so amazing I had to watch it again and again. The claw on the submarine also looked like it was taking up our entire living room.

Football also looks great, especially in the shots where they show the field and first 20 rows from behind. It literally feels and looks like you are in the 21st row behind everyone.

A truly unreal experience. Cannot wait for more! Going to get my brother over tomorrow night. Make sure you switch to Brilliant mode with contrast all the way up to get the most "pop" of 3D!

With that tv being so big, it must be amazing !!
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post #920 of 1927 Old 08-30-2011, 10:21 AM
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I called Mitsubishi today about the sound setup, the Input 1 left (white) is the correct one.
Also told them about the judder while watching blu-ray 3D movies. Was told they will pass that info on.
If you're looking to extend your Warrantie, you will have to wait until the end of Sept. (they don't have any prices yet).
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post #921 of 1927 Old 08-30-2011, 11:37 AM
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As far as the judder when watching 3d I bought my father inlaw the 65638 and noticed no judder at all when watching 3d. Anyone else compare last years models with this years to see if there is a difference in the 3d?
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post #922 of 1927 Old 08-30-2011, 01:23 PM
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Got sound set up. It does sound better. I did set up the sub woofer too (came in the bundle).
I am glad I do have a 7.1 surround sound system (Onkyo 609 & Bose speakers and sub woofer) though.
I guess the built in is better then no surround sound but no comparison.

@curtishd,
I did not notice any judder with my WD-82737 (2009 model) either.
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post #923 of 1927 Old 08-30-2011, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrecool View Post

Hi all.

To all readers, owners & potential buyers.

I've been awaiting the 92 inch ever since CES.

But to my surprise, it seems that Mitsubishi has dropped Deep Field Imager and Dark Detailer.

I own the 65 837 Diamond. I've seen the difference with Deep Field Imager on and off. I would not watch my tv without it on.

I'm disappointed. I was planning on getting that 92 inch but I don't want to sacrifice anything my old trusty 837 has got me used to.

What's the deal? Why does the 92 inch not have Deep Field Imager?

As from what I've learned Deep Field Imager is a great asset it adds clarity and more HD visuals for me.

And Dark Detailer, it's supposed to give Silky Dark Blacks and not lose detail in dark stuff like in the Blade Trilogy or Rise of the Lycans movies.

I don't want to give up those features.

I know those features are not in use in 3D mode.
So the 92 Inch is ideal for 3D. But I want the total package. It seems they cut those two features from the 92 inch to downgrade cost maybe.

But 82 840 has them. Why not the 92840?

I don't think the screen is going to do what those two features do. So inform me please.


Why are those two features sacrificed on the 92 inch?

If you aren't going to have your set professionally calibrated, you should try these settings out as a good starting point: http://www.tweaktv.com/tweak-my-tv/c...-wd-65837.html

And yes, every calibration suggestion I've read on the Mits says to turn off the Deep Field Imager. Probably why they removed it.

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post #924 of 1927 Old 08-31-2011, 08:50 AM
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I tried using the center channel function on the T.V.

I was hoping that it might sound as good as my JBL center channel from my 7.2 Venue Series. And also take some weight off the top of the T.V.

The T.V. speaker was not nearly as good

I auto calbrated the sound using the microphone that came with my receiver.

SO, I placed my center channel back up on the T.V.

I was worried that the weight of the center channel speaker might increase any bowing tendencies of the screen.

But I really don't notice much if any bowing tendencies at all.

-Dr.
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post #925 of 1927 Old 08-31-2011, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr515 View Post
I tried using the center channel function on the T.V.

I was hoping that it might sound as good as my JBL center channel from my 7.2 Venue Series. And also take some weight off the top of the T.V.

The T.V. speaker was not nearly as good

I auto calbrated the sound using the microphone that came with my receiver.

SO, I placed my center channel back up on the T.V.

I was worried that the weight of the center channel speaker might increase any bowing tendencies of the screen.

But I really don't notice much if any bowing tendencies at all.

-Dr.
Question on the center channel speaker. My current AV receiver does not have pre-outs. Could I use the center channel speaker wire outputs to an RCA adapter and go into the Mitsu center channel input? Or is that not recommended?

I assume you should only use center pre-out to it but thought I would ask.
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post #926 of 1927 Old 08-31-2011, 10:15 AM
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I used the pre-outs on my receiver.

Personally, I would NOT try the regular speaker outputs.

-DR
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post #927 of 1927 Old 08-31-2011, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

If you aren't going to have your set professionally calibrated, you should try these settings out as a good starting point: http://www.tweaktv.com/tweak-my-tv/c...-wd-65837.html

And yes, every calibration suggestion I've read on the Mits says to turn off the Deep Field Imager. Probably why they removed it.

Good post. I actually had my set calibrated by them.

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post #928 of 1927 Old 08-31-2011, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruson View Post

Question on the center channel speaker. My current AV receiver does not have pre-outs. Could I use the center channel speaker wire outputs to an RCA adapter and go into the Mitsu center channel input? Or is that not recommended?

I assume you should only use center pre-out to it but thought I would ask.

I did that on my 73838 and it works great. I just had to go in to the settings and turn the center channel down a little.
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post #929 of 1927 Old 09-01-2011, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eequetsuorcha View Post

I did that on my 73838 and it works great. I just had to go in to the settings and turn the center channel down a little.

Well, I decided to try it and my Sony receiver is going into protective mode now so it does not like it. Funny because the test ones were working fine but when I actually played back a movie the receiver shut off because protective mode...
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post #930 of 1927 Old 09-01-2011, 08:10 AM
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My assumption is that some readers have not been able to view a Mit's 92840 in person yet. I had the opportunity to view a 92840 last night at a shop 300 miles east of my hometown.

Was only able to view it for about 10 minutes prior to the close of business.

My impressions are incomplete, but so far I do not contradict earlier poster's comments. To supplement them, I noticed I could easily view the 92840 from about 7 or 8 feet away. But remember that was for a relatively brief period.

I was in a darkened room. Viewing thru the 3-D glasses was fine, it was not overly dark viewing. It was slightly dimmed with the glasses on. There was not any ghosting. I do not know which settings their set was on, but the 3-D effect was pronounced.

Saw a bit of 2-D and 3-D segments of a Tron trailer also. The horizontal off-zxis viewing was fine. The 2-D detail was pretty good; it did not appear cartoonish.

Situational awareness at this particular shop is that they were hard set on "MAP". Not sure of the acronym, but perhaps "MAP" stands for "Manufacture's Adjusted Price" or a floor on the lower limit that they can sell at.

I doubt that I"ll return to their shop today. I'm aware of an authorized retailer 150 miles south of my hometown that provides better terms.

I'm inclined to wait for a 2013 model in the slim hope of a non-Wobulated imnplementation, better video processing, better DMD, etc. Just a hope, just speculation on my part.

At that particular shop when I attempted to negotiate they steered me to a JVC front projector. At hese prices, I can avoid the MIt's and JVC for now.

Anyone taking bet's on how long MIt's and JVC will survive as viable business entities in this market ?


Leo Henton
Lionanimal is offline  
Reply Rear Projection Units

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Displays , Mitsubishi , Mitsubishi Wd 92840 92 Inch 1080p 3d Projection Tv , Projectors
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