2011 Mitsubishi DLP WD-73640 official thread - Page 51 - AVS Forum
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post #1501 of 1886 Old 04-02-2012, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by JP32 View Post

Hey, question for the keener eyes around here.

Has anyone else noticed that this set is HORRIBLE at handling upressing/interlaced footage?

No --- I'm not gonna start another campaign about it, lol... It only affects the least important footage possible (standard def tv -- which is basically kid shows for my 4 yr old). But I've noticed INSANE amounts of interlacing artifacts.

Curious if anyone else has noticed this, or if maybe my cable box needs to be replaced or something. It's weird, my cable box is set to only output 480p/720p/1080i. So there shouldn't be all that much work for the set to be doing.

Is this 480i or 1080i original source?? If your cable box is set to send 480p/720p/1080i only, then the only "interlaced" video you are sending to the TV is the 1080i from HD channels. If your box is set to send 480p and not 480i then the box, NOT THE TV, is converting the signal from 480i to 480p. Interlace artifacts are in the box's conversion to 480p because the TV is not seeing interlaced SD.

While there will always be issues with covnerting old 480i TV to 1080p, I find that my TV is better than my cable box.
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post #1502 of 1886 Old 04-02-2012, 01:34 PM
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I find it hard to watch anything less then 1080p on these tv's do to the sheer size. Even Zune 1080p HD movies (much higher quality than netflix hd) streamed through my xbox looked great on my 42" plasma (at the same 7' viewing distance), tried it out on the 740 and wow you can really see what compression does to the video quality.
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post #1503 of 1886 Old 04-02-2012, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GEP View Post

Is this 480i or 1080i original source?? If your cable box is set to send 480p/720p/1080i only, then the only "interlaced" video you are sending to the TV is the 1080i from HD channels. If your box is set to send 480p and not 480i then the box, NOT THE TV, is converting the signal from 480i to 480p. Interlace artifacts are in the box's conversion to 480p because the TV is not seeing interlaced SD.

While there will always be issues with covnerting old 480i TV to 1080p, I find that my TV is better than my cable box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan_awd View Post

I find it hard to watch anything less then 1080p on these tv's do to the sheer size. Even Zune 1080p HD movies (much higher quality than netflix hd) streamed through my xbox looked great on my 42" plasma (at the same 7' viewing distance), tried it out on the 740 and wow you can really see what compression does to the video quality.

Thanks for the replies....

I did some channel scanning and ran into the most obvious culprit --- turned out to be 480i (or 'p', possibly... but I assume 'i')... up-res to 720p at the station (so turning off 480p does nothing). Which means you get the pillar-boxing AND letter-boxing at the same time... aka the postage stamp. But the footage itself is SOOOO horrendous... you can really see the interlaced-looking lines in peoples faces and gets worse with motion. Basically like an A/B image showing just how horrible interlacing can look vs progressive scan.

Looks kinda like this image...

http://www.100fps.com/distortion1.jpg

(okay, maybe about 2/3 as bad as that --- very clear horizontal lines thru everything).

I never noticed anything that egregious on my 61" LCoS set. I stood maybe 12' away from the Mits and it was still incredibly noticeable. Unfortunately I don't have the 61" to do a quick comparison look at the same footage.

Again --- not trying to incite another campaign, I honestly don't care how a 2011 HDTV displays non-HD footage (cable broadcast quality at that)... just one of those things that whenever I happen to notice it, it's like a shock to the senses.... and I'm curious if anyone notices this more on their Mits DLP vs other brands/tech of similiar sized tv's you've used recently or if its just a station/cable provider or HD cable box issue.
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post #1504 of 1886 Old 04-03-2012, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP32 View Post

Thanks for the replies....

I did some channel scanning and ran into the most obvious culprit --- turned out to be 480i (or 'p', possibly... but I assume 'i')... up-res to 720p at the station (so turning off 480p does nothing). Which means you get the pillar-boxing AND letter-boxing at the same time... aka the postage stamp. But the footage itself is SOOOO horrendous... you can really see the interlaced-looking lines in peoples faces and gets worse with motion. Basically like an A/B image showing just how horrible interlacing can look vs progressive scan.

Looks kinda like this image...

http://www.100fps.com/distortion1.jpg

(okay, maybe about 2/3 as bad as that --- very clear horizontal lines thru everything).

I never noticed anything that egregious on my 61" LCoS set. I stood maybe 12' away from the Mits and it was still incredibly noticeable. Unfortunately I don't have the 61" to do a quick comparison look at the same footage.

Again --- not trying to incite another campaign, I honestly don't care how a 2011 HDTV displays non-HD footage (cable broadcast quality at that)... just one of those things that whenever I happen to notice it, it's like a shock to the senses.... and I'm curious if anyone notices this more on their Mits DLP vs other brands/tech of similiar sized tv's you've used recently or if its just a station/cable provider or HD cable box issue.

What is that pic? It looks like passive 3D. If your picture is anywhere near that, you may have an issue with your TV or cable box. Can you post an actual pic?

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post #1505 of 1886 Old 04-04-2012, 04:49 PM
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Remember me saying I was going to ask Mitsubishi for the ADVANCED equivalents for
normal, bright, and Vivid, so I could learn more about using ADVANCED settings?????

Here's my answer........

Thank you for contacting Mitsubishi Electric Visual Solutions America, Inc. We are pleased to be able to assist our customers via our website. Here is the information that you have requested:

This is not possible.

The picture adjustments for Brilliant and Bright are based on exclusive Mitsubishi dynamic algorithms for dynamic non-linear gamma curve, dynamic contrast adjustment, non-standard color points, etc

The controls in the Advance Picture Mode menus cannot recreate all of the effects of the dynamic algorithms in the Brilliant and Bright modes The purpose and intents of the Advanced Picture Modes are to give calibrators the controls needed to adjust to industry standards, not to recreate the Mitsubishi exclusive non-standard dynamic settings.



Regards

I was clear in my email, that if I knew what settings approached Normal, etc., I could then understand more about the advanced settings, rather than just 'barging in'..... Must have fallen on deaf ears...

WELL, I TRIED!!!

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post #1506 of 1886 Old 04-07-2012, 07:24 PM
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I don't know if i'm going crazy or what but has anyone noticed rainbows since maybe the last update?

I've had the 640 for 2 months and never seen any sort rainbow effect what so ever now I notice it all the time and constantly especially if I keep my head straight and just turn my eyes or look away quickly to see if my son if terrorizing his brothers while I watch TV. It's just odd that I never noticed it for 2 months and now I see it all the time especially since it seems like a lot of people praise the newer Mitsu sets for being rainbow free.

I bought it at sams so I still have some time to return it for a new one but wanted to get some opinions first.
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post #1507 of 1886 Old 04-07-2012, 07:41 PM
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No one - with any experience and knowledge about the effect - said the sets were rainbow free. Moving your eyes or looking away quickly is exactly what makes the rainbows appear. You should not return the set, because, with time and some self training to not do these in RBE intense scenes (dark scenes with intensely bright areas) you will be able to stop seeing it - or at least see it so rarely you'll be able to justify it sufficiently to your mind, as a small trade off for an otherwise best of today picture.

(within your price range)

Best of luck to you, HDextreme.

|
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2011 Mits DLP owners: upgrade firmware to 13.06 to fix picture quality. More here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post21726833
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post #1508 of 1886 Old 04-07-2012, 07:41 PM
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Jan, that is really neat information you managed to extract from Mits. Well done and thanks.

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2011 Mits DLP owners: upgrade firmware to 13.06 to fix picture quality. More here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post21726833
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post #1509 of 1886 Old 04-07-2012, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thhowl View Post

No one - with any experience and knowledge about the effect - said the sets were rainbow free. Moving your eyes or looking away quickly is exactly what makes the rainbows appear. You should not return the set, because, with time and some self training to not do these in RBE intense scenes (dark scenes with intensely bright areas) you will be able to stop seeing it - or at least see it so rarely you'll be able to justify it sufficiently to your mind, as a small trade off for an otherwise best of today picture.

(within your price range)

Best of luck to you, HDextreme.

This is my first DLP set and if that is the case I will stick with it because I did not see them what so ever but I think when I noticed it for the first time my eyes are just looking to find it. I would hate to get rid of this TV the pic quality in my opinion is just as good as most of the better LED or plasma sets in a nice dark room.

I know DLP can produce the rainbow effect but it seemed like most people who have newer sets praise how minimized the RBE effect was.
Thanks for the info!
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post #1510 of 1886 Old 04-07-2012, 07:57 PM
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You're spot on. I should have included that, indeed, the effect is LESS than on some models.

|
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2011 Mits DLP owners: upgrade firmware to 13.06 to fix picture quality. More here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post21726833
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post #1511 of 1886 Old 04-07-2012, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDextreme View Post

This is my first DLP set and if that is the case I will stick with it because I did not see them what so ever but I think when I noticed it for the first time my eyes are just looking to find it. I would hate to get rid of this TV the pic quality in my opinion is just as good as most of the better LED or plasma sets in a nice dark room.

I know DLP can produce the rainbow effect but it seemed like most people who have newer sets praise how minimized the RBE effect was.
Thanks for the info!

Yeah --- funny how a lot of people don't see things.

I saw a TON of rainbow-effect for about the first 3 weeks or so... then they slowly started to disappear. Give it some time, and hopefully it will fade away for you as well. I basically never see them now, except in very rare cases.
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post #1512 of 1886 Old 04-08-2012, 05:29 AM
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I'm approaching Mitsubishi again on the subject of Advanced Controls....

As Posted to them as a question:

Could Mitsubishi Please give us end users a primer or overview of the Advanced Settings, and their use? It's hard to use these controls without information on how they were intended on being used....
I have downloaded and read all the documentation on the 73640, and you manuals are usually quite informative, except in this one area.

I wish to try the advanced controls, but, without direction or documentation, these controls fast change from being a powerful tweak, to a black magic cauldron of ways to degrade picture quality easily...

If there were information on this, the end user would be (at least) armed with the correct information on Mitsubishi's intended use of these controls... and make an educated guess on if he/she wanted to continue.

I would very much appreciate more information on this subject...

Thank You!

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post #1513 of 1886 Old 04-08-2012, 06:53 AM
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Well, I have verified with a friend of mine who also has a 2011 Mits. (his 73740) that certain "stuttering" was interduced in firmware 13.06 on our sets. Like they turned off 120hz sub field drive. Motion blur is how to best described it. Doesn't matter if it is a fast pan up from bottom on screen of side-to-side, it has actually blur followed by a stutter or mixed. I wanted to know if it was just me and another "Screwed up Firmware update". I didn't have the past problem with colors that Howl got fixed, should have left it at 13.04.
I thought it was source, but I turned on the Masters and watched when the camera panned and it did the stutter and blur following the ball off the tee. Oh the picture is nice and crisp, just looks like it is slower to put the image up. It did it also during the Blu-ray of In Time and DVD of 3 Musketeers the other night.

I really think its the firmware as I don't have in actual picture problems i.e, purple screen lockup. Oh and also it is also taking longer to come on now as opposed to before the update. My friend and I will let mits know by Tuesday.(Told him to post here about it, but but he is not computer friendly to speak. lol ) But I hate replacing anything as the TV never is the same once they start "fixing" it.
Anyone else notice this or are we just another victim of borked firmware update?

Cool Beans.
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post #1514 of 1886 Old 04-08-2012, 08:08 AM
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DR Would you please explain the way of looking for this again?

I'm not certain I understand the exact nature of what I'm looking for....

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post #1515 of 1886 Old 04-08-2012, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRaven72 View Post

Well, I have verified with a friend of mine who also has a 2011 Mits. (his 73740) that certain "stuttering" was interduced in firmware 13.06 on our sets. Like they turned off 120hz sub field drive. Motion blur is how to best described it. Doesn't matter if it is a fast pan up from bottom on screen of side-to-side, it has actually blur followed by a stutter or mixed. I wanted to know if it was just me and another "Screwed up Firmware update". I didn't have the past problem with colors that Howl got fixed, should have left it at 13.04.
I thought it was source, but I turned on the Masters and watched when the camera panned and it did the stutter and blur following the ball off the tee. Oh the picture is nice and crisp, just looks like it is slower to put the image up. It did it also during the Blu-ray of In Time and DVD of 3 Musketeers the other night.

I really think its the firmware as I don't have in actual picture problems i.e, purple screen lockup. Oh and also it is also taking longer to come on now as opposed to before the update. My friend and I will let mits know by Tuesday.(Told him to post here about it, but but he is not computer friendly to speak. lol ) But I hate replacing anything as the TV never is the same once they start "fixing" it.
Anyone else notice this or are we just another victim of borked firmware update?

Hey DRaven72.

If you'll recall, I have a defect free TV like yours, at least in regards to not having that color bug that others reported having. I upgraded my FW to 13.06 about the same day it came out. And I haven't noticed any stuttering on my set. At least not so far. My WD-73640 continues to amaze me in how good the PQ is.

1 Mitsubishi WD-82642 82" TV
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post #1516 of 1886 Old 04-08-2012, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan J View Post

I'm approaching Mitsubishi again on the subject of Advanced Controls....

As Posted to them as a question:

Could Mitsubishi Please give us end users a primer or overview of the Advanced Settings, and their use? It's hard to use these controls without information on how they were intended on being used....
I have downloaded and read all the documentation on the 73640, and you manuals are usually quite informative, except in this one area.

I wish to try the advanced controls, but, without direction or documentation, these controls fast change from being a powerful tweak, to a black magic cauldron of ways to degrade picture quality easily...

If there were information on this, the end user would be (at least) armed with the correct information on Mitsubishi's intended use of these controls... and make an educated guess on if he/she wanted to continue.

I would very much appreciate more information on this subject...

Thank You!

Thanks for keeping up with this. I was planning on harassing Mits about this while I had to deal with the color bug issues, but that got solved before I had the chance.
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post #1517 of 1886 Old 04-08-2012, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan J View Post

I'm approaching Mitsubishi again on the subject of Advanced Controls....

As Posted to them as a question:

Could Mitsubishi Please give us end users a primer or overview of the Advanced Settings, and their use? It's hard to use these controls without information on how they were intended on being used....
I have downloaded and read all the documentation on the 73640, and you manuals are usually quite informative, except in this one area.

I wish to try the advanced controls, but, without direction or documentation, these controls fast change from being a powerful tweak, to a black magic cauldron of ways to degrade picture quality easily...

If there were information on this, the end user would be (at least) armed with the correct information on Mitsubishi's intended use of these controls... and make an educated guess on if he/she wanted to continue.

I would very much appreciate more information on this subject...

Thank You!

I don't really get what you are trying to understand. Their is nothing special about the Advance Mode controls. They are just Mits built in CMS in a user acessible menu.

The advanced controls allow you to fully and properly calibrate the set assuming you have a quality probe and software. If you don't the tools then choose the appropriate preset mode. For most folks the closest preset to a properly calibrated set would be Natural and the low color temp. Advanced Modes has two memories. The idea being you have a daytime and nightime calibration (ADV 1 and 2).

There are grayscale, gamma and color gamut controls there in addition to the typical picture controls you find in the preset modes. There is nothing tricky there. The controls avaliable will do for calibrating the set to the standard 6500k grayscale and the REC 709 HD Color Gamut.

I do a baseline calibration using the factory ADV Mode controls and get close to the grayscale, gamma and gamut targets and then I tweak further using my CMS on the DUO and the Advanced menu controls to aheive the lowest possible dE or Delta Error in grayscale and color. You can achieve a very high level of accuracy with the Advanced Mode settings alone. Because I have the DUO I use a combination of controls from the Mits Advanced Mode and the DUO CMS for convenience and speed. But the Advance Mode controls really are quite adequate

Just another blank signature.
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post #1518 of 1886 Old 04-08-2012, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

I don't really get what you are trying to understand.

He just wants to know what each video setting's numbers would be in the ADV mode.

For instance, I like Natural Hi-Temp the best, but feel its a little too cool (blue)... If I go into ADV1, what do I input in order to emulate the video setting for "Natural, hi-temp". So then I could have that in my ADV memory, and tweak the settings from there to my liking.

Pretty simple question. But getting Mits to answer may be difficult.
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post #1519 of 1886 Old 04-08-2012, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan J View Post

DR Would you please explain the way of looking for this again?

I'm not certain I understand the exact nature of what I'm looking for....



Really you won't have to look for it. Its an obvious motion blur to stutter like the scene is slowing down. Happens in fast panning scenes Camera pans from left to right fast or up to down, vice versa. Also, which was pointed out by my nephews, background has what seems like a haze or cloudy look to it in any daylight background in a city or bright lights in the scene in an office. (You guys know I would post pics in a heart beat but the camera already gives it a bad look, low quality camera.) Adjusting contrast down took it off a little but if I go to far down the picture is too dim.

I don't know. I am going to do some more testing tonight and tomorrow before I make a call, all I know is my TV isn't the same it was before the firmware update.

I already tried the obvious things like hooking everything up directly to the TV instead of the AVR. (Comcast box, blu-ray, and xbox 360.)

Cool Beans.
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post #1520 of 1886 Old 04-08-2012, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP32 View Post


He just wants to know what each video setting's numbers would be in the ADV mode.

For instance, I like Natural Hi-Temp the best, but feel its a little too cool (blue)... If I go into ADV1, what do I input in order to emulate the video setting for "Natural, hi-temp". So then I could have that in my ADV memory, and tweak the settings from there to my liking.

Pretty simple question. But getting Mits to answer may be difficult.

They already answered that for him. There are no equivalant settings because there are too many dynamic adjustments going on with the pre-set picture modes. This is probably one of the biggest reasons NOT to use those modes as your going to get inconsistant colors/contrast/brightness levels do to them dynamically changing.
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post #1521 of 1886 Old 04-08-2012, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP32 View Post

He just wants to know what each video setting's numbers would be in the ADV mode.

For instance, I like Natural Hi-Temp the best, but feel its a little too cool (blue)... If I go into ADV1, what do I input in order to emulate the video setting for "Natural, hi-temp". So then I could have that in my ADV memory, and tweak the settings from there to my liking.

Pretty simple question. But getting Mits to answer may be difficult.

The thing is these settings are intended to be used with a meter. I don't mean to argumentative but without a meter you are going to be off spec considerably. Each set is going to be slightly different anyway. The preset grayscale is pretty far off. Low is to low and high is way too blue. Also the sets aren't linear so grayscale changes dramatically depending on contrast and gamma settings. Believe me I have tons of time calibrating with both my sets and I don't see any value to ADV mode without a meter. Yes you could possibly use someone else's settings who has either hired a pro or is fairly skilled themself, but the vairability of the individual sets is so great it would mostly just dumb luck if it got you real close.

I would offer up my settings but they are useless to anyone else because I calibrate in a hybrid mode and use my DVDO DUO and the Mits factory controls together, making my setup totally unique.

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post #1522 of 1886 Old 04-09-2012, 12:21 AM
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I still have some brightness vibration during watching movies.
Its not the whole screen but the middle part of the screen. It almost looks like the picture comes from many bulbs and only 1 of them vibrates/flashing/flickering

if i turn it off then back on it goes away.

anyone?
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post #1523 of 1886 Old 04-09-2012, 04:15 AM
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I do have two different meters from work... and have a background in monitor calibration.... However, the advanced settings handles don't 'feel' like a professional monitor's handles, and therefore, since there is no -- In Depth description of what Mits wants them to do, I'm asking them....
Yes, I originally wanted Advanced settings for their presets, and they did answer that they were not obtainable via these handles, so that makes me feel that I was correct that the handles don't feel correct... It's hard to believe that in depth (Advanced) picture adjustments cannot get you to any picture result possible, but that's what Mits said! If I can't get there from here, It's as if some settings are missing.

So I'm asking them what the intent was for these adjustments, and once (If) I get the information, then I'll take a crack at the adjustments... again, based on the info they give me. (Again, I'm asking because the handles interact more than I'm expecting---Maybe this is a 6 vector vs. RGB thing...).

At work, I've been known to, in a 'pinch', come up with a pretty fair calibration by eye, and I tried that a couple times with these advanced handles, and I keep walking myself into a corner... or, I come up with less than optimum adjustments, and don't at all like what the adjustments have given me. And it was these attempts that made me feel that I'm mus-interpreting the intent of the adjustments...

I at first thought that by getting the equivalents of Normal, Bright, Vivid, etc., I'd be able to 'reverse engineer' what the advanced settings are doing.... With that info not availble, if they'd release their thoughts on what each handle is/could do, then I'd approach it from the other direction....

I'm not looking at a 'broke'.... Just I'm not interpreting correctly the handles I have available to me, and when I adjust one thing, instead of giving me the adjustment I'm expecting.... I'm getting that, and something else too... THAT'S WHY I keep asking them for information...

For those who have calibrated the system with Advanced..... with a sensor..... Did the adjustments feel individual and separate, or did you also feel adustments were interacting, as I did?

My $.03

P.S. I have not seen any motion blur.... I've got a test patten, an MPEG Encoder Killer, at work, that should show that.... I'll try and get a copy of it with the least artifacts.... to BR Media (I can burn up to 40Mb/sec using H264)...

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post #1524 of 1886 Old 04-09-2012, 04:17 PM
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I do have two different meters from work... and have a background in monitor calibration.... However, the advanced settings handles don't 'feel' like a professional monitor's handles, and therefore, since there is no -- In Depth description of what Mits wants them to do, I'm asking them....
Yes, I originally wanted Advanced settings for their presets, and they did answer that they were not obtainable via these handles, so that makes me feel that I was correct that the handles don't feel correct... It's hard to believe that in depth (Advanced) picture adjustments cannot get you to any picture result possible, but that's what Mits said! If I can't get there from here, It's as if some settings are missing.

So I'm asking them what the intent was for these adjustments, and once (If) I get the information, then I'll take a crack at the adjustments... again, based on the info they give me. (Again, I'm asking because the handles interact more than I'm expecting---Maybe this is a 6 vector vs. RGB thing...).

At work, I've been known to, in a 'pinch', come up with a pretty fair calibration by eye, and I tried that a couple times with these advanced handles, and I keep walking myself into a corner... or, I come up with less than optimum adjustments, and don't at all like what the adjustments have given me. And it was these attempts that made me feel that I'm mus-interpreting the intent of the adjustments...

I at first thought that by getting the equivalents of Normal, Bright, Vivid, etc., I'd be able to 'reverse engineer' what the advanced settings are doing.... With that info not availble, if they'd release their thoughts on what each handle is/could do, then I'd approach it from the other direction....

I'm not looking at a 'broke'.... Just I'm not interpreting correctly the handles I have available to me, and when I adjust one thing, instead of giving me the adjustment I'm expecting.... I'm getting that, and something else too... THAT'S WHY I keep asking them for information...

For those who have calibrated the system with Advanced..... with a sensor..... Did the adjustments feel individual and separate, or did you also feel adustments were interacting, as I did?

My $.03

P.S. I have not seen any motion blur.... I've got a test patten, an MPEG Encoder Killer, at work, that should show that.... I'll try and get a copy of it with the least artifacts.... to BR Media (I can burn up to 40Mb/sec using H264)...

The sets are non-linear and they clip badly when the contrast or gamma is high. The gamma curve which you want ruler flat will easily slope sharply upward at the high brightness levels.

On the larger sets you would likely out of necessity run quite high contrast and have the lamp on bright. Dynamic range is a picture quality component so you are always trying to max that without the side effects of color shifts.

1 single click in either direction completely changes grayscale and whitepoint. The higher contrast and the higher the gamma the less linear the set becomes. If you look at a grayscale ramp you will probably see some pinkish banding in the upper end of the ramp. Depending on how the ADV mode RGB High setting are, the set will clip, either green or blue.

On the smaller sets that are not light challenged you can probably get away with a contrast of 50 and using the 2.2 gamma selection the set will be about as linear as it is going to be. None of that will get your grayscale right without a meter. You may have a golden eye but I don't think even with that golden eye you can get the grayscale to the under 2.0 dE across the board to get gray in spec. Where the golden eye may come in handy is setting the very low end of the grayscale, red shifts there are very noticeble and sometimes you will have to visually adjust a set at the low end regardless of what your meter is telling you.

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post #1525 of 1886 Old 04-09-2012, 04:46 PM
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AH!!! So YOU'VE seen the interactions in the controls, too!!!

That's why I keep asking them for more info.... It is too non-linear for my taste...

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post #1526 of 1886 Old 04-09-2012, 04:54 PM
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The built in controls for the Color Management Systems in most consumer displays interact sometimes in strange and unpredictable ways. The Mits 2011 CMS is pretty clunky, but vastly better than the one in the 2009 models. Even the CMS in the DVDO DUO is unpredictable when working at low stimulus.

The way to calibrate the set is to first determine and set max white, and then you adjust black level. I will assume the 2.2 gamma as that is the one that seems the flatest. Then you measure the grayscale. To adjust you measure 80 percent stimulus and set the RGB High Controls to achieve RGB balanceto be as close to equal as possible at the 80 percent stimulus level. You then measure again 0-100 and should note that much of the grayscale is now pretty good with 30 percent stimulus and below being off. To bring 30 percent and below inline you use the RGB Low settingx which can be postiive or negative. Keep in mind that while the RGB High effects the high stimulus zones and the RGB Low controls manage the low stimulus zones they interact so you will need to adjust them back forth interactively until you get the best looking grayscale.

The RED, GREEN, BLUE, CYAN, MAGENTA and YELLOW Adjust controls are just what they sound like. The are used to adjust the individual colors. They work quite well. The hardest part of setting these is getting the primaries saturated enough to get them in the target boxes on the CEI 94 Diagram. Secondaries are pretty much a piece of cake, if the primaries are right. Magenta for example should be equal amounts of RED and BLUE.. Even if you can't quite get the Primaries perfect, you should be able to get the secondaries very near perfect quite easily.

None of this is possible in my estimation without a decent meter. The new X-Write D3 Pro with the ChromaPure tables for rear projection DLP works superbly at this.What is also nice about this meter is that it is surprisingly affordable, quite repeatable and accurate. It reads low stimulus greys quickly and accurately. If you get a colorimeter instead of a spectro you really need to buy one that comes with appropriate tables for rear projection DLP. The ones from ChromaPure do and are profiled using a reference grade spectrometer.

If you are interested in TV display calibration check the Display Calibration Forum on this board. There are discussions about the use of meters, their merits and value of trying to do it be eye alone. The forum is frequented by many experts who write calibration software, edit films, develop and deliver the THX and ISF calibration training as well as the premier calibrators in the country... While this group is largely either agnostic or even hostile to Mits DLP Rear projectors you will see that the information I provide is consitent with the industry perspective about meters.

You will aslo see if you spend enough time there that even very expensive display devices have buggy and unpredictable Color Management Systems. Check out the discussions on calibrating the Sharp Elites or the JVC projectors for example.

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post #1527 of 1886 Old 04-09-2012, 05:27 PM
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That's why I keep asking them for more info.... It is too non-linear for my taste...

This is very common on even the most expensive Home Theater display devices and that is why people buy Lumagen and DVDO outboard video processors. While these devices can vastly improve the ease and accuraccy of calibrating a display with a goofy factory CMS they can't overcome basic design flaws in a display. If a display runs out of red before it runs out of green and blue your brightness max is still determined by how much red the display can crank out.

Calibration can get very deep, a perfect calibration chart could mean a lousy looking display, so I am not suggesting they eyes have no place in calibration. They are sort of a reality check. Devices like the DVDO DUO and the Lumagen Radience support autocalibration with either Calman or ChromaPure software. The results are very high quality and are probably sufficient. I find running autocalibration with a little touch up with DUO and the Mits CMS after autocalibration produces superb results with the least amount of time and effort. I have figured out some tricky things using the DUO VP in an unorthodox way to help the display's basic non-linearity.

Realistically, the 2011 Mits CMS is pretty darn good and a very competent calibration can be achieved with the factory controls alone. This was not true of my 2009 Mits and that set was a main reason I bought the DUO in the first place. The recently added capability of autocalibration using ChromaPure and the DUO Video Processor is just icing on a very nice cake.

I will take my 2011 Mits CMS by itself over the 2009 Mits and the DUO. I found the 2009 set difficult to adjust and one adjusted it did not want to stay in spec. I have a spare main board around here somewhere for that display and one day I will get around to swapping it but in the meantime the 2011 92840 is so vastly superior I don't have much interest in the now only occasionally used 82837.

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post #1528 of 1886 Old 04-11-2012, 04:23 AM
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My earlier DLP Mits 62525, the only drift I saw was a slight blue to red shift due to age of bulb, and dust on mirror, which caused a contrast & Defocus change.

This one 73640, I've only one main beef with the general settings.... The Warm/Cool 2 only settings for color temp.... Warm is Warmer that Warm was on 62525, Cool, fortunately, is warmer than cool was on 62525, and unfortunately that's all you get (62525 had 3 postions for color temp)....
So, I'm using Cool and Normal, High Bulb setting, and I'm guessing that my Color Temp is 7500 K.

Every time I went into advanced settings, where ever I end up, the pix quality is not anything close to the Normal, Cool and High Bulb settings, which thankfully I wrote down prior to my first foray into the tarpit called Advanced Settings.
But I will agree with you... Accessing the equivalent of the Advanced setting in the 62525 was much harder, because you were in a service mode adjusting blindly.

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post #1529 of 1886 Old 04-11-2012, 02:57 PM
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Hey, question for the keener eyes around here.

Has anyone else noticed that this set is HORRIBLE at handling upressing/interlaced footage?

No --- I'm not gonna start another campaign about it, lol... It only affects the least important footage possible (standard def tv -- which is basically kid shows for my 4 yr old). But I've noticed INSANE amounts of interlacing artifacts.

Curious if anyone else has noticed this, or if maybe my cable box needs to be replaced or something. It's weird, my cable box is set to only output 480p/720p/1080i. So there shouldn't be all that much work for the set to be doing.

I noticed this from day one with this set. Basically it typically appears on locally made TV commercials- absolutely wretched interlaced image. I never saw this on my 60" SXRD. Thankfully it'd not typically anything important but I have noticed it and wondered why it was so bad.
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post #1530 of 1886 Old 04-11-2012, 03:24 PM
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I noticed this from day one with this set. Basically it typically appears on locally made TV commercials- absolutely wretched interlaced image. I never saw this on my 60" SXRD. Thankfully it'd not typically anything important but I have noticed it and wondered why it was so bad.

Glad I'm not the only one.

I noticed it REALLY bad on a re-run of The Office, and I think it was on one of those UPN type semi-local stations. It was the HD channel, and the image was poster-stamped (letterboxed AND pillarboxed at the same time, lol). Everyone's faces had horizontal lines of weirdness going thru them.
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