2011 Mitsubishi DLP WD-73640 official thread - Page 53 - AVS Forum
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post #1561 of 1890 Old 04-24-2012, 09:53 PM
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So why is MItsubishi giving the same tv two different model numbers?
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post #1562 of 1890 Old 04-24-2012, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by |Tch0rT| View Post

This whole thread is about opinions on that model.

Not really. Just because one person mentions the models are identical does not make that true. Are these models really the same?
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post #1563 of 1890 Old 04-24-2012, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by AMS 511 View Post

Not really. Just because one person mentions the models are identical does not make that true. Are these models really the same?

We have been around about this quite a bit by page 53. Yes, it shares the same manual with the model numbers on it with no difference in the model. Someone might have an answer, it could be the C series is teh Diamond series. Which by the manual again shows no difference.

Cool Beans.
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post #1564 of 1890 Old 04-25-2012, 02:16 AM
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There is nothing in the manual that differentiates between the two models. The only item of difference on the specification sheets is a weight difference of .4 lb.

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post #1565 of 1890 Old 04-25-2012, 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by jjbbssll View Post

So why is MItsubishi giving the same tv two different model numbers?

This is usually vendor specific, usually so vendors don't have to compete with each other. (correct me if you can find the WD-73C11 any at other authorized reseller else than Dell)

Quote:


We will match any competitor's price*

*(must be the same model)

Quote:


Customer: "Why is this TV cheaper at XYZ Electronics?"

Salesman: "They carry a different model"


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post #1566 of 1890 Old 04-25-2012, 09:53 AM
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So I've been able get my WD-73C11 (same WD-73640) calibrated very precisely in 2d mode. I use an Eyeone LT and ColorHCFR. Firmware is updated to 13.06.

I've been reading a lot about calibrating in 3D mode but can't seem to get any definitive answers. I noticed that when I switch the TV to 3d checkerboard mode, leaving all 2D calibrated settings in advanced mode the same, that the Eyeone gets much different readings.

So I did a seperate calibration with 3d checkerboard enabled and saved that in Adv2. I watched some 3d content and it didn't look awful but also not that great. So I'm thinking that I'm not accounting for the glasses. Does the TV compensate the greyscale and colors to account for the fact that the glasses alter the light before it hits your eyes. If that's the case then it wouldn't be accurate to calibrate the TV with 3d checkerboard enabled. I might just be better off sticking to my 2d calibration numbers even when 3d is enabled.

The other thing I've read is to put one of 3d glasses the lenses in between the colorimeter and the tv to accurately do a 3d calibration. That does make perfect sense. It wouldn't be pretty but I could rig something up with electrical tape so no light could get in between the sides between the colorimeter, glasses and tv screen. Has anyone ever done a calibration like that.

If anyone that has more knowledge than this could chime in I'd really like to get my 3D looking as stellar as my 2D does.
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post #1567 of 1890 Old 04-25-2012, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Healey View Post

Don't know for sure but I imagine if you backed up the settings through the repair menu they should be brought back during the restore of the light engine.


FYI, prior to the mother board replace I had the MITS logo on a blue background during startup and now its on a black background. Why, I don't know, but its different.

I was at work when the repair was done. But a new motherboard was installed and all is working now. It came with 13.05 firmware. I left a thumb drive for the tech to install 13.06 but of course he didn't. I was able to install it with no problems myself when I came home. I did leave instructions for how to restore the light engine....not sure if the tech had to do that or not. Colors are accurate and background is blue behind Mitsubishi logo when I boot up. I did my first calibration with probably only a hundred hours on the unit. So I loaded in my old numbers and tweaked from there. She's looking great again. I don't think I can ever have a small TV again!!
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post #1568 of 1890 Old 04-25-2012, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post

Did you write down your calibration settings? They should work fine.

I used the old numbers and they got me close. I had a photo of them on my phone. I did that first calibration with only about 100 hours on the TV. So it was probably time to redo it anyway. The original numbers got me close and then I tweaked from there. Back in business!
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post #1569 of 1890 Old 04-25-2012, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by mfish123 View Post

So I've been able get my WD-73C11 (same WD-73640) calibrated very precisely in 2d mode. I use an Eyeone LT and ColorHCFR. Firmware is updated to 13.06.

I've been reading a lot about calibrating in 3D mode but can't seem to get any definitive answers. I noticed that when I switch the TV to 3d checkerboard mode, leaving all 2D calibrated settings in advanced mode the same, that the Eyeone gets much different readings.

So I did a seperate calibration with 3d checkerboard enabled and saved that in Adv2. I watched some 3d content and it didn't look awful but also not that great. So I'm thinking that I'm not accounting for the glasses. Does the TV compensate the greyscale and colors to account for the fact that the glasses alter the light before it hits your eyes. If that's the case then it wouldn't be accurate to calibrate the TV with 3d checkerboard enabled. I might just be better off sticking to my 2d calibration numbers even when 3d is enabled.

The other thing I've read is to put one of 3d glasses the lenses in between the colorimeter and the tv to accurately do a 3d calibration. That does make perfect sense. It wouldn't be pretty but I could rig something up with electrical tape so no light could get in between the sides between the colorimeter, glasses and tv screen. Has anyone ever done a calibration like that.

If anyone that has more knowledge than this could chime in I'd really like to get my 3D looking as stellar as my 2D does.

It would be difficult for the TV to make automatic adjustments to compensate for all brands of 3D glasses and the alterations to the picture that the glasses cause because each brand of glasses make different alterations. The TV could make either only general compensation or compensation to a specific brand/model of glasses.
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post #1570 of 1890 Old 04-25-2012, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by AMS 511 View Post

It is now $949. I am thinking of ordering one, any opinions on this model? The reviews are very positive.

IMO, that is a good price.
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post #1571 of 1890 Old 04-25-2012, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GEP View Post

It would be difficult for the TV to make automatic adjustments to compensate for all brands of 3D glasses and the alterations to the picture that the glasses cause because each brand of glasses make different alterations. The TV could make either only general compensation or compensation to a specific brand/model of glasses.

Does anyone know if in fact it does do some compensation? I'm using Mitsubishi IR glasses so I would think if there was built in compensation it would be for their own branded glasses.

But more importantly I'd like to be able to accurately calibrate 3D mode if such a method exists.
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post #1572 of 1890 Old 04-25-2012, 02:51 PM
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I doubt you will get an answer to that question that is reliable. It simply is not the type of knowlege that manufacturers make comments about.
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post #1573 of 1890 Old 04-25-2012, 06:05 PM
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oh crap.... i have 3 flyes inside my tv unit..... drives me crazy. i wont spray nothing inside the tv but i might try to put one of those electric buzz killers that lights up blue. i would put it right behind the tv where the ventilation is....any opinions?
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post #1574 of 1890 Old 04-25-2012, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by CSOCSO View Post

oh crap.... i have 3 flyes inside my tv unit..... drives me crazy. i wont spray nothing inside the tv but i might try to put one of those electric buzz killers that lights up blue. i would put it right behind the tv where the ventilation is....any opinions?

They'll die eventually, so you could just wait for that to happen...

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post #1575 of 1890 Old 04-26-2012, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by mfish123 View Post

Does anyone know if in fact it does do some compensation? I'm using Mitsubishi IR glasses so I would think if there was built in compensation it would be for their own branded glasses.

But more importantly I'd like to be able to accurately calibrate 3D mode if such a method exists.

Check out this post. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post21907235

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post #1576 of 1890 Old 04-26-2012, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post

Check out this post. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post21907235

Thanks - that's a very interesting read. I have the 3DC-1000 kit found here: http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/accessory/3DC-1000 Does anyone know the model number of the actual glasses included in the kit. I can't seem to find it. Its a little hard to search without knowing the model of the actual glasses - how do others with these glasses find their performance?

It seems like using glasses of the same brand of the tv manufacturers minimizes picture degradation. Is this the general consensus?
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post #1577 of 1890 Old 04-26-2012, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mfish123 View Post

Thanks - that's a very interesting read. I have the 3DC-1000 kit found here: http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/accessory/3DC-1000 Does anyone know the model number of the actual glasses included in the kit. I can't seem to find it. Its a little hard to search without knowing the model of the actual glasses - how do others with these glasses find their performance?

It seems like using glasses of the same brand of the tv manufacturers minimizes picture degradation. Is this the general consensus?

They are the same as Samsung's SSG-2100AB. Most of what I've read points to other brands being better in various ways. Opinions are as diverse as the membership of AVS. Still, some people are very happy with the OEM glasses, while others have replaced them with XpanDs, Ultraclears, and Optima, among others.

If you hang out here in the forums and do some searching, you will find many opinions and more information.

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post #1578 of 1890 Old 04-27-2012, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post

They are the same as Samsung's SSG-2100AB. Most of what I've read points to other brands being better in various ways. Opinions are as diverse as the membership of AVS. Still, some people are very happy with the OEM glasses, while others have replaced them with XpanDs, Ultraclears, and Optima, among others.

If you hang out here in the forums and do some searching, you will find many opinions and more information.


Thanks for chiming in. I do see a lot of mixed reviews about 3d glasses. I'm going to read up a little more on them.

One thing I have noticed is when viewing 3d movies encoded with side by side (SBS), is that the 3d locks "correct" when using mitsubishi's black box to do the encoding. In other words I set the box to LR side by side and leave the TV on checkerboard. There are only a handful of movies where using the TV's built in side by side decoding looks more "correct", meaning I don't use any decoding from the box but instead set the TV to side by side.

My Sony blu ray player doesn't output checkerboard so even for store bought 3d blu ray's I still need the box to output the checkerboard format to the TV.
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post #1579 of 1890 Old 04-27-2012, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by mfish123 View Post

Thanks for chiming in. I do see a lot of mixed reviews about 3d glasses. I'm going to read up a little more on them.

One thing I have noticed is when viewing 3d movies encoded with side by side (SBS), is that the 3d locks "correct" when using mitsubishi's black box to do the encoding. In other words I set the box to LR side by side and leave the TV on checkerboard. There are only a handful of movies where using the TV's built in side by side decoding looks more "correct", meaning I don't use any decoding from the box but instead set the TV to side by side.

My Sony blu ray player doesn't output checkerboard so even for store bought 3d blu ray's I still need the box to output the checkerboard format to the TV.

If you have the WD-73C11, you do not need the black box to change the signal to checkerboard. That TV has the Automatic setting which will "automatically" change your Sony Blu-ray player's 3D output to checkerboard. All you need for that TV is the IR emitter and 3D glasses, the box is not required. If you have the WD-73C10, then you do need the black box.

However if you are sending the signal from your BD through the black box to the TV, then yes you need to set the TV to checkerboard because the black box will change the BD's 3D signal to checkerboard before it arrives at the TV. The TV cannot automaticallhy detect a 3D signal that is already checkerboard.
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post #1580 of 1890 Old 04-27-2012, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by GEP View Post

It would be difficult for the TV to make automatic adjustments to compensate for all brands of 3D glasses and the alterations to the picture that the glasses cause because each brand of glasses make different alterations. The TV could make either only general compensation or compensation to a specific brand/model of glasses.

So I taped my Eye One LT to my 3d glasses and shield all light from the gap between them with black electrical tape. I then pointed the IR emitter vertically up the screen and put my little hand made contraption on the tv screen to do the calibration. I also made sure that I calibrated the meter with the glasses taped on and with the glasses on.

The calibration did come out much different than my 2d calibration. With the 2d calibration settings when the tv is in 3d mode I have too much green and not enough red. The 3d calibration corrected this.

However, I almost feel like the 3d calibrated setting push red too much even the meter says my white balance, primaries and secondaries are dead on. Maybe I'm just used to the greenish tint that I've been seeing in 3d over the last 5 months. I might back down the red high and low a little and try to eyeball it.

Its wierd....in Avatar 3D and when viewing the Disney castle at the start of disney movies the redness / warmth doesn't look right. However, if I watch toy story 3d or some imax underwater documentaries everything looks spot on. Maybe my eyes just need to adjust.
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post #1581 of 1890 Old 04-27-2012, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by GEP View Post

If you have the WD-73C11, you do not need the black box to change the signal to checkerboard. That TV has the Automatic setting which will "automatically" change your Sony Blu-ray player's 3D output to checkerboard. All you need for that TV is the IR emitter and 3D glasses, the box is not required. If you have the WD-73C10, then you do need the black box.

However if you are sending the signal from your BD through the black box to the TV, then yes you need to set the TV to checkerboard because the black box will change the BD's 3D signal to checkerboard before it arrives at the TV. The TV cannot automaticallhy detect a 3D signal that is already checkerboard.

OK...I'll have to try that. I was under the impression that if the Blu ray player didn't output checkerboard then you still needed the box even on the 2011 models. I'll connect the blu ray straight to the tv as well as the emitter and watch a standard 3d blu ray with the tv in checkerboard mode.

However, when it comes to side by side 3d the TV usually screws up the decoding and is just straight up not correctly decoding the image. Its hard to describe - it has the "3dness" but the depth isn't there. Looks like everything is on the same plane. So for SBS the box does come in handy. Sammy's Adventure 3D and The Darkest Hour 3D are 2 movies off the top of my head where the TV correctly decodes SBS and the box does not. Everything else in my collection looks "correct" with the box handling the decoding.
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post #1582 of 1890 Old 04-27-2012, 11:12 AM
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Try changing teh Glasses L-R setting when it looks incorrect.
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post #1583 of 1890 Old 04-28-2012, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by mfish123 View Post

So I taped my Eye One LT to my 3d glasses ...

Good job. It would be informative to see the before and after calibration graphs. Also, some glasses have a polarized lens which affects the picture when the glasses are tilted, so it should work out better to try to attach the glasses horizontal to the screen rather than angled.

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post #1584 of 1890 Old 04-28-2012, 10:39 PM
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Just compared the 73c11 to the 73c12(2012 model) and the 12 is not a 3d tv and has 2 HDMI inputs. I guess Mitsubishi decided to make the 73c model attracive to people who do not want to pay for 3d.

I was thinking of getting the 73c11 but have NO desire for 3d so I'll wait for the 73c12.

Hopefully it will be priced the same as the 73c11 or a litle lower.

In 4-5 years when 3d has had a chance to improve then maybe I will get a 3d tv.
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post #1585 of 1890 Old 04-28-2012, 10:42 PM
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I wonder if Dell will be the only seller of the 73C12?
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post #1586 of 1890 Old 04-28-2012, 10:52 PM
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Mitsubishi also has for 2012 a 82C12 same as the 73C12 just 82 inch screen.

I may have to upgrade to the 82C12.
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post #1587 of 1890 Old 04-29-2012, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by GEP View Post

Try changing teh Glasses L-R setting when it looks incorrect.

I'll switch the LR if it doesn't look "right". Thanks
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post #1588 of 1890 Old 04-29-2012, 12:45 PM
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I have a Mitsubishi WD-73C11 (as well all know its essentially the same as the 73640). I'm using and i1 (Eeyone LT / Eyeone Display 2 meter) and HCFR to do my calibraiton. My grey scale, color temperature and xy coordinates of primaries and secondaries are very accurate however my Y value and saturation can use some help.

I know the 100% white should have a Y of 100% but when I adjust the contrast to achieve this its too dim for my liking and the ftL is around 29. So I compromised by increasing the contrast to get a Y to 113 and the ftL to 33.

1. So my first question is: Is this a good Y / ftL compromise or is it more important to get my Y to 100 no matter what? I have a feeling my TV has some circuitry to limit above white output if that matters. When I look at blinking white clipping test patterns on AVS when I turn up the contrast to high I don't see above white, but the below white ones start getting a pinkish tint.

2. Or can I go for a 40 ftL, notate the 100% white Y value and then just adjust my primaries and secondaries based off rec 709 % of the white Y that they should be. I mean I'm basically just trying to get the following percentages for Y:R 21.26%, G 71.52% B 72.2%, Y 92.78%, C 78.74%, M 28.48%, right?


3. Also is, is the Y value the same as as as the ftL light output? Or are they just highly correlated? I ask this because I personally prefer a brighter / more saturated pictured so I'd prefer to have my ftL closer to 40 than 30. But despite what I do to the color control and the levels in the CMS if I push my contrast up to get closer to a 40 ftL my Y values always shoot up above the REC 709 spec. I can adjust down the intensity of color or the RGB's in the CMS down to get the Y lower but this also lowers the ftL independent of where I leave contrast.

I've attached my HCFR file as well as screen shots. I think with my controls I should be able to get my TV dead on the money across the board. If anyone can answer my questions and give me any pointers based on my calibration results I would be extremely grateful. If I'm missing something or not understanding things correctly please let me know. Thanks in advance.

 

AfterCalibration0429.zip 4.728515625k . file
LL
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post #1589 of 1890 Old 04-29-2012, 06:22 PM
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I would like to know the answer to those questions too.
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post #1590 of 1890 Old 04-30-2012, 10:04 AM
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I would like to know the answer to those questions too.

I posted in the calibration section and got some responses- http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post21965131

Check out the link in the 2nd post for a great tutorial. Basically the jist of it is to calibrate CMS based on 75% saturation (NOT 75% brightness windows) These are on AVS 709 in the saturations section (bottom right of HCFR windows section). Although I'm a little over saturated at 100% saturation, the curve is way flater from 0 - 75% saturation. Its a good compromise and subjectively it looks better. Less greenish with a warmer feel and a little more punch in the colors. Flesh tones look ultra realistic now!

And yes we can set the 100% white Y value higher than 100 and then just adjust the rest of the colors off the recommended % of 100% white Y.

What I was missing was I had all my xy coordinates dead on using CMS but the Y value (brightness of each color was off). In other words you can have the correct ratio of colors but not enough total brightness. E.g. If your red was at 20, 15, 10 that might be the right mix to get xy accurate but if the Y value is too low you might have to bump everything up 25, 20, 15 (same ratios, but more light out put) to get the Y value correct.

In HCFR you can run saturations ---> All colors to see where you stand and then tweak from there. You'll see results on the CIE triangle, saturation - shift graph and saturation - luminance graph. Saturation-luminance was a little tricky. I could be wrong but it almost seems like for Red, blue, and cyan (at the bottom, increasing Y value makes them go up and decreasing Y makes them go down. However, and I could be wrong, for Green, cyan, and yellow, increasing Y value makes them go down and decreasing Y makes them go up. I could be wrong but I think that's how it behaves.

I'm still learning so if anyone who knows more than me can verify my interpretations I'd find that helpful

P.S. The saturation - luminance attached was on my second run. I did it a 3rd time and by increasing output on RGB for green, it raised my Y value but decreased the saturation-luminance - you'll see on that attachment that its way too high. I'll post my recalibrated one this evening when I get home from work.
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Reply Rear Projection Units

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