2011 Mitsubishi 3D DLP Owners Thread (740/840 series) - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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post #991 of 3969 Old 12-17-2011, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by sup1judge View Post

After researching this forum, and viewing numerous big screens in stores, I bought the 82840. It arrived on Wednesday. I quickly updated the software to 13.05 and I used a calibration disc to optimize the picture. I was extremely impressed with what I was seeing. Problems arose less then 5 minutes later when I noticed that I suffered from eye strain, dizziness, and nausea. I have played with each setting to reduce the intensity of the picture, but I still have to turn the set off within 5 minutes or I feel ill. I am perplexed because the 82840 replace a Samsung 5688W DLP that I used for 4 years without a problem. I don't feel I am suffering from the rainbow effect because I don't see any flashes of color before the onset of my eye strain. I sit 16 feet from the set and my stand is 22 inches high (which I know is higher than recommended). Any thoughts or suggestions? Can I make changes that might help or is there a chance my eyes may slowly adjust to the bigger picture? On the other hand, should I simply face the fact that will I be forced to return this magnificent set (there is a 30 return policy from the seller) and return to my old Samsung?


You are experiencing what you are experiencing but I am sure you are unique. If you were talking about having trouble with 3D that would be understandable.... Are you sure this is not a problem that is non-visual like some outgassing of organic compounds from the large piece of electronics heating up for the first time? I would power the thing up with a window cracked nearby and a fan circulating. The go out for a few hours and see if the problem has gone away when you come back.

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post #992 of 3969 Old 12-17-2011, 08:32 PM
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Received my 73740 on friday and so far Im impressed but not blown away by my set from a seating distance of 12 feet. Kung Fu Panda 2 in 3D was pretty cool I am wondering if picture quality increases with the more hours I put on?

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post #993 of 3969 Old 12-17-2011, 08:40 PM
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I sit the same distance from mine, and was really disappointed by the picture. After 50 hours on the bulb it was better, and now after about
120 hours I am satisfied. I can't offer any reasonable explanation but
that is what happened for me. Also noticed this after a bulb replacement.
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post #994 of 3969 Old 12-17-2011, 08:57 PM
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Thanks JeRed,

Its weird...while watching blu-ray and directv there are moments where I am totally wowed and seconds later the picture has a "fuzziness" to it. Hoping the break-in of the bulb helps as it did for you!

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post #995 of 3969 Old 12-17-2011, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zforce5 View Post

Received my 73740 on friday and so far Im impressed but not blown away by my set from a seating distance of 12 feet. Kung Fu Panda 2 in 3D was pretty cool I am wondering if picture quality increases with the more hours I put on?

thats just way to far i sit 9'' from a 82 inch 100% happy !
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post #996 of 3969 Old 12-18-2011, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by cookieattk View Post

thats just way to far i sit 9'' from a 82 inch 100% happy !

Doesn't your neck get tired?
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post #997 of 3969 Old 12-18-2011, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zforce5 View Post

Received my 73740 on friday and so far Im impressed but not blown away by my set from a seating distance of 12 feet. Kung Fu Panda 2 in 3D was pretty cool I am wondering if picture quality increases with the more hours I put on?

Give it some time... I thought mine looked good at first - and after only playing video games on it for 30-40 hours or so I finally popped in a movie again (Fifth Element) and I was blown away by some of the scenes. Definitely looks better than the first day... and also confirmed that I got my calibration "close enough" when I did it the first time around

Watching some of the "visuals" scenes from the Demo Disc 2 (available on the forum here) I was thoroughly impressed.

-Aaron
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post #998 of 3969 Old 12-18-2011, 10:27 AM
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Ordered a 82840 from Pauls TV yesterday...should be here between now and 1pm...can't wait ! Replacing a 61" Samsung LED DLP
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post #999 of 3969 Old 12-18-2011, 10:36 AM
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I have a 73840 I got BF and have had a few minor problems with it. One it that the set will sometimes lock up when changing channels (with Antenna). Also, when watching a DVD, the screen sometimes goes blank for a few seconds (like the signal has been lost) but then comes back. This also has happened several times.

Has anyone else experienced these?

I'm still within the 30 day return (@ hhgreg) and am trying to decide whether to exchange it or get a refund and buy something else. I like the size and picture, but these problems are a concern. Thanks for any feedback.
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post #1000 of 3969 Old 12-18-2011, 10:44 AM
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Can anybody tell me if the SSE (silk screen effect) is less apparent on the 82840 vs the 82740?
Thanks, Rick
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post #1001 of 3969 Old 12-18-2011, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by PTAaron View Post

Give it some time... I thought mine looked good at first - and after only playing video games on it for 30-40 hours or so I finally popped in a movie again (Fifth Element) and I was blown away by some of the scenes. Definitely looks better than the first day... and also confirmed that I got my calibration "close enough" when I did it the first time around

Watching some of the "visuals" scenes from the Demo Disc 2 (available on the forum here) I was thoroughly impressed.

What or who did you use for your calibration?

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post #1002 of 3969 Old 12-18-2011, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stebrock View Post

Can anybody tell me if the SSE (silk screen effect) is less apparent on the 82840 vs the 82740?
Thanks, Rick

I can't say yet, but it should be less. the 82" matte screen displays are high gain screens and they tend to show more SSE when pushing the brightness up.

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post #1003 of 3969 Old 12-18-2011, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Zforce5 View Post


What or who did you use for your calibration?

I just did a "DIY" calibration using the Disney WOW disc.

-Aaron
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post #1004 of 3969 Old 12-18-2011, 09:39 PM
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Now with about 30 hours or so the picture is getting much better. Saw my first bluray today and looks amazing. Turning down the sharpness and turning off NR seemed to make the biggest improvement initially and now 20 hours later it keeps getting better. I love the immersion of this beast at 10ft!
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post #1005 of 3969 Old 12-19-2011, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Mitsuevo View Post

Now with about 30 hours or so the picture is getting much better. Saw my first bluray today and looks amazing. Turning down the sharpness and turning off NR seemed to make the biggest improvement initially and now 20 hours later it keeps getting better. I love the immersion of this beast at 10ft!


That sounds great! I think the picture keeps getting better out to about 150 hours, or so. Mine has anyway. I'm with you on sitting close enough to be immersed in the picture. Sometimes furniture arrangements won't allow it, but I thought you might actually prefer 10'.
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post #1006 of 3969 Old 12-19-2011, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Mitsuevo View Post

Now with about 30 hours or so the picture is getting much better. Saw my first bluray today and looks amazing. Turning down the sharpness and turning off NR seemed to make the biggest improvement initially and now 20 hours later it keeps getting better. I love the immersion of this beast at 10ft!

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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post

That sounds great! I think the picture keeps getting better out to about 150 hours, or so. Mine has anyway. I'm with you on sitting close enough to be immersed in the picture. Sometimes furniture arrangements won't allow it, but I thought you might actually prefer 10'.

So why would the picture get better? What is changing, you or the TV?
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post #1007 of 3969 Old 12-19-2011, 09:39 AM
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How do you get into the menu which allows you to turn off smooth 120?
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post #1008 of 3969 Old 12-19-2011, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by pkelecy View Post

So why would the picture get better? What is changing, you or the TV?

Good question, wish I were getting better, but I am afraid it is the bulb. Most calibrators recommend waiting about 200 hours with a rear projector to allow the bulb to stabilize before doing a professional (and costly) calibration. Gtgray had mentioned in a previous post that the bulbs start off burning really bright, but I think that there may also be something more than just brightness involved. Whatever the explanation, the sets do seem to require a break-in period similar to what speaker manufacturers and audiophiles recommend for speakers.
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post #1009 of 3969 Old 12-19-2011, 12:02 PM
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I think this is actually a fairly complicated issue. I will take a crack at it and then someone else can catch what I miss. The TV will not do much, if any, upscaling. It will play 1080p if you feed it 1080p, through a Blu Ray, for instance. But if your source, such as your cable or satellite box, sends it a 480i signal that is what it will play. Most AV receivers don't have genuine deinterlacing and upscaling either. So, a lot depends on your source. My primary source is DirecTV and when they went from 480i to 480p it visibly helped. In fact, I was able to watch SD from closer than 10' on my previous 73" Mits, but your eyes are probably sharper than mine at this point. Here are some thoughts.

First, if a 73" is not very watchable for SD from 10', then you would probably have to go down below a 65", and that would be a real shame for HD movies, sports, etc. I think there is a chance your eyes will gradually get used to the compression of SD on the larger screen if you will give them a little time. One trick I have used since moving to HDMI some years ago is to always watch SD first. So, if I want to watch an old movie on TCM, I do that first, and then watch an HD program. If I move from HD to SD, I am much more conscious of compression artifacts. Another thing to do is to keep working on your settings with Contrast high and Brightness low, from the Natural Mode, with the Color Temperature Low. Getting your picture dialed in will help SD too, even B&W. Again, I think you may get used to it, or simply find yourself watching a little less SD over time, but if in a couple of weeks, you are still unhappy with it, there is one more thing I would consider.

You could buy a video processor specifically to help with upscaling SD. I recently went from a 73833 to a 92840, and I knew I was going to have trouble with the bigger, clearer screen for SD. And I still like old movies. But not on that screen, from where I like to watch. I really like to be immersed in the picture, so I prefer to be at about the THX distance of 1.2 x diagonal. My compromise position is currently at about 9.5'. Good luck with that on SD! So I bought an iScan Duo. That really does have deinterlacing and upscaling properties. I find that it makes SD much more watchable, although 9.5' is about my limit, even so, and I think it moves 1080i much closer to 1080p. Of course, that is just my opinion. I haven't heard of a way to quantify the visual difference. I think you could find an Edge ( a model with fewer features than the Duo), perhaps even a used one, pretty inexpensively, and that would probably help a lot. It is something you could research pretty easily if you just can't get used to SD on your new set.

I am sorry but you are inccorrect. The TV displays everthing at 1080p, it does not show 480i as 480i. It upcoverts that to 1080p EVERYTHING is displayed at 1080i.

The quality of covnersion may be in question but the TV converts everything that is not 1080p 60Hz to 1080p 60Hz. It is a fixed pixel display that operates at one display mode. It even say
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post #1010 of 3969 Old 12-19-2011, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post

I think this is actually a fairly complicated issue. I will take a crack at it and then someone else can catch what I miss. The TV will not do much, if any, upscaling. It will play 1080p if you feed it 1080p, through a Blu Ray, for instance. But if your source, such as your cable or satellite box, sends it a 480i signal that is what it will play. Most AV receivers don't have genuine deinterlacing and upscaling either. So, a lot depends on your source. My primary source is DirecTV and when they went from 480i to 480p it visibly helped. In fact, I was able to watch SD from closer than 10' on my previous 73" Mits, but your eyes are probably sharper than mine at this point. Here are some thoughts.

First, if a 73" is not very watchable for SD from 10', then you would probably have to go down below a 65", and that would be a real shame for HD movies, sports, etc. I think there is a chance your eyes will gradually get used to the compression of SD on the larger screen if you will give them a little time. One trick I have used since moving to HDMI some years ago is to always watch SD first. So, if I want to watch an old movie on TCM, I do that first, and then watch an HD program. If I move from HD to SD, I am much more conscious of compression artifacts. Another thing to do is to keep working on your settings with Contrast high and Brightness low, from the Natural Mode, with the Color Temperature Low. Getting your picture dialed in will help SD too, even B&W. Again, I think you may get used to it, or simply find yourself watching a little less SD over time, but if in a couple of weeks, you are still unhappy with it, there is one more thing I would consider.

You could buy a video processor specifically to help with upscaling SD. I recently went from a 73833 to a 92840, and I knew I was going to have trouble with the bigger, clearer screen for SD. And I still like old movies. But not on that screen, from where I like to watch. I really like to be immersed in the picture, so I prefer to be at about the THX distance of 1.2 x diagonal. My compromise position is currently at about 9.5'. Good luck with that on SD! So I bought an iScan Duo. That really does have deinterlacing and upscaling properties. I find that it makes SD much more watchable, although 9.5' is about my limit, even so, and I think it moves 1080i much closer to 1080p. Of course, that is just my opinion. I haven't heard of a way to quantify the visual difference. I think you could find an Edge ( a model with fewer features than the Duo), perhaps even a used one, pretty inexpensively, and that would probably help a lot. It is something you could research pretty easily if you just can't get used to SD on your new set.

I am sorry but you are inccorrect. The TV displays everthing at 1080p, it does not show 480i as 480i. It upcoverts that to 1080p EVERYTHING is displayed at 1080i.

The quality of covnersion may be in question but the TV converts everything that is not 1080p 60Hz to 1080p 60Hz. It is a fixed pixel display that operates at one display mode. It even says so in the "features" section of the Owner's Guide.
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post #1011 of 3969 Old 12-19-2011, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by nc88keyz View Post

are we all in agreement that the ssg-2200 rechargables work with the 640,740 series? Is the built in IR emitter same compatible with these discontinued glasses as well as the mits rebranded xpands??

I have the older 73835, this is why i am asking.

No the internal emitter is not compatible with those glasses. But he the 640 and 740 both have the jack to connect the external emitter that Mitsubsihi sold with those glasses.

Also the 3DG-X103 glasses are compatible with both emitters.
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post #1012 of 3969 Old 12-19-2011, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by MRSBIGD View Post

HELLO, BOUGHT THE MR THE 73740 FOR CHRISTMAS. WE ALREADY SET IT UP, KINDA HARD TO HIDE! BUT I THOUGHT I WOULD TRY TO ADD A SOUND BAR/SYSTEM TO WRAP AND PUT UNDER THE TREE. ANY IDEAS?

The TV has one digital audio output - coaxial style (uses an RCA type cable). If your sound bar has a coaxial style digital audio input, you would connect the TV's output to the sound bar's input and you are done.

What you need to do is check the specifications for the sound bar(s) before purchasing to verify that it has the correct type of input - coaxial digital audio input. Also calls coaxial SPIDIF.
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post #1013 of 3969 Old 12-19-2011, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by GEP View Post

It upcoverts that to 1080p EVERYTHING is displayed at 1080i.

Typo, or am I not understanding something?

I thought the TV also supported 1080p/24 ... my AVR says it does and sends that to it. It wouldn't sent it to my old display that didn't support it.

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post #1014 of 3969 Old 12-19-2011, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GEP View Post

No the internal emitter is not compatible with those glasses. But he the 640 and 740 both have the jack to connect the external emitter that Mitsubsihi sold with those glasses.

Also the 3DG-X103 glasses are compatible with both emitters.

If I were to go from the internal emitter (which programed into the glasses at 4 blinks which is same as Panasonic in 2011 models) to the external emitter, would I have to re-program the glasses to 1 blink for the Mitsubishi code? I'm using the X103 glasses.

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post #1015 of 3969 Old 12-19-2011, 12:21 PM
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It converts everything that is not 1080p 60Hz to 1080p 60Hz.

They apply 3:2 pull down to 1080p 24Hz to convert it to 1080p 60Hz. You would not want to watch 24Hz if would flicker.

No TV shows 24 frames per second, they all up the frame rate, some repeat the frame 5 times and display at 120Hz, some use 3:2 pull down to repeat a frame 3 times and the next frame 2 times etc to create 60Hz. Some make up new frames slightly different to fill in frames but none show 24 frames per second (24Hz).

24Hz is only used in flim to save costs - frames per second, less film per second. In the theaters they double and triple flash each frame to get rid of flicker. On Blu-ray they use 24Hz to save space on the disc.
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post #1016 of 3969 Old 12-19-2011, 12:51 PM
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Thanks for explaining that GEP.

-Aaron
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post #1017 of 3969 Old 12-19-2011, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidMP View Post

I'm looking for suggestions on placement of a center channel speaker for my new 82740. I plan on getting a pretty low stand, and figure the speaker will need to sit in front of the TV on it. But has anyone found a good bracket or mount to place the speaker at the top of the TV?

I haven't purchased the center speaker yet, and could be influenced by a design that fit well.

Thanks!

I originally bought a pair of Sony 6.5" 2-ways and used just one of them for my center channel. With my new 73640 I don't have room on the front of the stand to place it now. The solution I came up with is to wire the second one of the pair parallel to the first and place one on either side and on top of my front surrounds. This will give a phantom center which should work.
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post #1018 of 3969 Old 12-19-2011, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GEP View Post

I am sorry but you are inccorrect. The TV displays everthing at 1080p, it does not show 480i as 480i. It upcoverts that to 1080p EVERYTHING is displayed at 1080i.

The quality of covnersion may be in question but the TV converts everything that is not 1080p 60Hz to 1080p 60Hz. It is a fixed pixel display that operates at one display mode. It even says so in the "features" section of the Owner's Guide.

Well, I said this was a complicated issue---for me, at least. First, thank you for the correction. I really don't want to post incorrect information. Mitsubishi has video processing it calls 1080p Plush which attempts to up-convert everything to 1080p. But the original question dealt with why SD looked bad on the larger screen, when it was supposed to be in 1080p, and I don't want to lose sight of that original point. Whatever video processing the Mitsubishi is attempting to do is not very successful. Don't get me wrong. I think these big DLP's are the best thing out there, and I love mine. But someone else reading this thread is still going to notice that SD looks lousy (or lossy) compared to 1080i, much less compared to 1080p, and wonder why when Mits says that it up-converted everything to 1080p. I just don't think there is much up-conversion going on. Or maybe there needs to be more deinterlacing first. I don't really know enough to say.

The good news is, tweaking the set does help with both SD and HD. And I do think that our eyes get used to SD programs on the larger screens with a little time, particularly if we don't switch back and forth between SD and HD too much when we are watching. But then, if furniture arrangements, or viewing preferences leave us sitting at 9' or 10', and we still have trouble adjusting to SD on the large screens, it is comforting to know that there is some more visible up-conversion available in the form of an external video processor. Interestingly, though, even with external VP and the definite benefit of that, so far I am finding that I watch a little less SD than I used to, just because HD looks so good on these big screens.
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post #1019 of 3969 Old 12-19-2011, 03:25 PM
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Under what circumstances would the 82840 shift from a 16:9 ratio to a 4:3 ratio, but still have the upper and lower black bars in the 4:3 format picture?
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post #1020 of 3969 Old 12-19-2011, 05:02 PM
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A signal that has side black bars and top/bottom black bars is a letterboxed widescreen in a 4:3 signal The term Letterbox was originally created for 4:3 TVs that were showing black bars at top and bottom for a wide screen movie.

If you are receiving a 4:3 signal (SD) and it is letterboxed, AND the TV is in the NARROW format, that will then show a wide screen image in the middle with back top/bottom and side bars. A 4:3 signal that already has top/bottom bars and TV is adding side bars to keep the 4:3 signals 4:3. Your cable box is also capable of doing this to some signals so the TV would just think it is a 1080i or 1080p signal coming in with a lot of black.

It should be noted that when the TV is receiving a 4:3 SD signal and upconverting that to 1080p (which is 16:9) and the TV is showing side bars, those side bars are added to the signal because the TV has to tell the pixels in the bars to be black. It is not just a matter of not using the black pixels area, black is a color and the TV must tell the pixels to be black, so the final displayed signal includes the side bars. If the 4:3 signal is letterboxed, the originators added the top and bottom bars and as far as the TV is concerned, that is part of the original signal.

On the TV, there are always 1920 pixel addressed on each line and there are always 1080 lines in total. The TV must tell each pixel address what to do. A SD signal really has only about 680 - 720 pixels on a line and only 480 lines. If the TV did not convert, then a SD signal would always look a letterboxed image in a 4:3 window except for even smaller, (only 480 lines total 600 lines less than the screen).

As for the “Mitsubishi says” or “if it really is upconverting”, there is no “says” or “if really converting” – the TV is upconverting, there is no “if” about it. You may not like the quality, but it is upconverting. My opinion is the TV is much better than my cable box at upconverting, but my cable box is a 2nd generation HD cable box and not that good. All upconverted SD looks much worse than real HD; however different upconverters have different quality.
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