Official 2011 Mitsubishi Laservue L75-A94 Owner's Thread - Page 12 - AVS Forum
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post #331 of 741 Old 12-15-2011, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post

I was wondering when someone was going to mention transport to the local dealer. But there's a bit of a difference between shipping a pallet full of widgets to a local dealer and shipping a single widget to the consumer...

...We've heard a number of stories about the TV's arriving without a pallet and then being dragged off the truck, up the front walk, and into the house with just a single delivery guy when it's pretty clear that 2 delivery guys are needed for these. Often times, the final leg of local delivery to the customer is jobbed out to some moron who really has no place delivering delicate items...

...The TV showed up mid afternoon on the back of a truck from a local roofing company - the "delivery guys" were roofers who apparently subcontract for the freight company...

...The 2 guys made it look like the 150 pound TV weighed 500 pounds - clearly they didn't know what they were doing. All of this nonsense increases the possibility of damage significantly. In my case, my TV has had no issues, but the delivery process was not what I would consider professional.

All good points. Which is why a reputable Brick and Mortar that controls their own shipping has merit.
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post #332 of 741 Old 12-15-2011, 08:03 AM
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I was wondering when someone was going to mention transport to the local dealer. But there's a bit of a difference between shipping a pallet full of widgets to a local dealer and shipping a single widget to the consumer. When the TV's are shipped to the dealer, I would think that at least in most cases, more than 1 TV is shipped together on a pallet and at least often ends up being delivered to a loading dock where the TV doesn't need to be "dropped" 5 feet off the back of the truck (I realize not all dealers have loading docks, but I'm not aware of too many houses with them ). We've heard a number of stories about the TV's arriving without a pallet and then being dragged off the truck, up the front walk, and into the house with just a single delivery guy when it's pretty clear that 2 delivery guys are needed for these. Often times, the final leg of local delivery to the customer is jobbed out to some moron who really has no place delivering delicate items.

For example, my 82838 that I bought earlier this year from Amazon was shipped via one of the big freight companies (the specific name escapes me at the moment). The morning the delivery was scheduled, I got a call from dispatch saying they couldn't fit the TV in the van they were going to bring it in, so they would need to deliver it later in the day (fortunately, I was working from home that day, so I hadn't scheduled to be home just for the delivery window). The TV showed up mid afternoon on the back of a truck from a local roofing company - the "delivery guys" were roofers who apparently subcontract for the freight company. I had confirmed with the freight company ahead of time that the TV would be brought inside, unboxed, and placed on my stand. When the guys arrived, they said they were only supposed to bring the box inside the front door and leave it. That turned into an interesting exchange that included mention of refusing the delivery - which they clearly didn't want me to do. After a few phone calls, they ended up bringing it into the room (after dragging the box across the floor and scratching the floor a bit), unboxing it, and putting it on the stand. When they were taking the TV off the back of the truck, they had to slide it off the end and catch it, since the truck didn't have a lift gate. The 2 guys made it look like the 150 pound TV weighed 500 pounds - clearly they didn't know what they were doing. All of this nonsense increases the possibility of damage significantly. In my case, my TV has had no issues, but the delivery process was not what I would consider professional.

I think this is exactly the problem. All of my TV's have showed up with no pallet or skids even though the paperwork on the last one said to leave the skids on. Two showed up loose in the back of a van. One showed up loose in the back of a large truck with a lift gate but with only one delivery guy. The shipping box is not sturdy enough to ensure safe delivery of these sets once they are removed from the pallet. The problem is because the box is so large the delivery guys probably think it is sturdy enough to treat it rougher than it actually can take. My 5th set is to be delivered next Friday by Manna. I stressed to Mits that it must remain on the skids all the way to my driveway or I would refuse the delivery and proceed to demand a full refund at this point. I got a delivery email from Manna to schedule my delivery. I called them to check that the paperwork said white glove delivery and to leave the skids on. White glove delivery yes but no mention of the skids. They added it in the system but who knows if it has already been removed at this point. If it shows up without the skids I'm refusing shipment and demanding a full refund even if I need to get a lawyer involved at this point. I'm that fed up and they have already refused my request for a refund of my 3D conversion kit. This will be my 6th day I've had to take off from work to be home for a delivery or a service call. I'm tired of the incompetence and indifference from Mits and I'm tired of dealers on here saying that it is such a rare occurence. There's another gentlemen on here on his 4th or 5th set too going all the way back to the A91 like me, as well as countless others with damaged or defective sets. If I had the time I'd go back thru this thread and the original Laservue thread and add them all up.
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post #333 of 741 Old 12-15-2011, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

All good points. Which is why a reputable Brick and Mortar that controls their own shipping has merit.

Absolutely. It's a matter of deciding how much money that is worth to each buyer. In my case, I couldn't get the local places or one of the people who posts here that sells these to really come even close to what I paid at Amazon, so I decided the risk was worth it.
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post #334 of 741 Old 12-15-2011, 08:37 AM
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Absolutely. It's a matter of deciding how much money that is worth to each buyer. In my case, I couldn't get the local places or one of the people who posts here that sells these to really come even close to what I paid at Amazon, so I decided the risk was worth it.

I understand, and that's a valid point. That's why I used the phrase "has its merit" rather than trying to make an absolute judgment or recommendation.

It would be great if on all of these threads people would be more accepting of the fact that people see things (including displays) differently, and that clamoring for and defending absolutes is a waste of energy.
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post #335 of 741 Old 12-15-2011, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

It would be great if on all of these threads people would be more accepting of the fact that people see things (including displays) differently, and that clamoring for and defending absolutes is a waste of energy.

What are you talking about? We all know that the choice I made is the only one that's valid for anyone to make. Anything else is clearly a stupid decision.... (extra smiley added for emphasis for anyone who might think I'm being serious)
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post #336 of 741 Old 12-15-2011, 08:54 AM
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Buzz how are you going to get 3 settings when there are only adv1 and adv2?
Is there some way to get to that level of control on one of the canned settings?

If you have a Video Processor like Buzz and I you can have more settings. My Duo has both a Day and Night profile. Basically they are just full memories. Something like the Lumagens have essentially and endless amount. With the DUO at the least you could have 3 very high qaulity calibrations to select from.

If you are satisified with what the internal controls can do you could, have ADV1,2 and Natural assuming the Service Menu still has a grayscale control as has been used in the past. Mits should design these sets so the ADV grayscale controls are avaiable in the PreSet modes. I actually prefer working with Perfect Color and Perfect Tint to the color adjust controls in ADV modes.

I guess I will find out what the latest lamps sets added or removed as a 92840 is on order. After reading this thread I am cringing over the possibility of shipping damage. Circuit City is the etailer and AIT is supposed to be the shipper. I tried to work with Fry's here locally but although they claim they would match Internet prices in the end, the store manager tried to bump me $250 and there was $69 delivery charge. I was glad to pay the home delivery charge but I had umpteem so called supervisors tell me they were honoring the price yesterday in the store but after wasting a day with them the manager thought like a used car dealer. So I too am now in the Russian Roulette of cheap shippers.

I once bought a 72" Sammy from Amazon... weird thing was it came via Fedex. Amazon Prime, you have to love Amazon compared to a lot of these fools. Too bad they don't sell the big beast.

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post #337 of 741 Old 12-15-2011, 08:56 AM
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What are you talking about? We all know that the choice I made is the only one that's valid for anyone to make. Anything else is clearly a stupid decision.... (extra smiley added for emphasis for anyone who might think I'm being serious)

Pardon me, your Highness. I'll return to my usual chores on the turnip patch.

By the way, your new royal robe is beautiful beyond words, but...aren't you a bit chilly?
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post #338 of 741 Old 12-16-2011, 10:55 AM
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Buzz your bright room settings worked great on my set. Will try dark room tonight.
Not sure what I will do with 3D though I suppose I could just reset one when I want to watch a 3D movie. Thanks for the posts.
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post #339 of 741 Old 12-16-2011, 11:01 AM
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Buzz maybe you could suggest what settings to use within what you can control on one of the non advanced setups for 3D?
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post #340 of 741 Old 12-16-2011, 11:09 AM
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And one other thing just to be a stalker Buzz. I do not have a totally dark room but just one 100W bulb going. How would you tweak the dark room settings for the low amount of extra light?
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post #341 of 741 Old 12-16-2011, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tangledweb View Post

Buzz maybe you could suggest what settings to use within what you can control on one of the non advanced setups for 3D?

I might try the Bright mode and see if I can get anything useable out of the Perfect Color & Tint controls. So far I haven't even done ADV1 for 3D and it might be awhile - Christmas ya know.

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And one other thing just to be a stalker Buzz. I do not have a totally dark room but just one 100W bulb going. How would you tweak the dark room settings for the low amount of extra light?

I would turn the light off.

Seriously, turn the light off and add bias lighting - your brain will perceive black to be darker for more contrast and it is a nice addition to any display where you can get the light source behind it.

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post #342 of 741 Old 12-16-2011, 03:22 PM
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I wish I could do that but I am afraid the workings of the household make it impossible.
Maybe someday. Thanks for the suggestion.
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post #343 of 741 Old 12-17-2011, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Copying settings from calibrated displays in no way implies that another display will have a better picture than factory settings. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1055906

I wouldn't ordinarily post settings but the A94 LaserVue has received little attention from magazine and Internet sources that review displays and post so perhaps these settings will help you out a little.

Caveat: Narrow band width light sources such as laser are difficult to measure accurately with the equipment used by most display calibrators. The only way accuracy can be assured is to use 5 or lower nanometer resolution spectroradiometers. I use an i1Pro which is 10 nanometer so accuracy will suffer accordingly. The best example is the color blue. At the CMS (Color Management System) extreme settings for the color blue, luminance is measuring 11.6% high yet when a Color Decoding pattern is displayed and the Blue Only mode is selected the Color Control would actually have to be raised about one half point (if half points were available) to 31.5.

Caveat aside, the references viewed after calibration passed my eye ball test and that is always the final judgement.

I'm going to do three calibrations:
1. Gamma 2.2 for day viewing
2. Gamma 2.4 and lower max light output for viewing in a light controlled room
3. 3D

I'll get around to 2 & 3 soon.

Gamma 2.2 For Day Viewing

Picture Mode ADV2
The next four auto functions OFF
Brightness 32 - don't change unless you know how to use a black pluge pattern. It doesn't make the picture brighter.
Contrast 63
Color 31
Tint 31
Sharpness 0 - Suspected placebo
Gamma 2.2
RH 966
GH 1019
BH 1006
RL -3
GL -6
BL -1
Blue Only OFF
R 20,0,1
G 8,24,7
B 0,0,5
M 22,5,18
C 3,16,15
Y 18,14,1

Max Light Output 30.1fL
Ave GS dE 0.9
Ave CCT 6532
Ave Gamma 2.20

Attachment 230815

Edit to add missing page 4:
Attachment 230816

It would be interesting to see how close the settings would be from, say, 10 LVs calibrated in identical fashion. With the solid state light source used, they might be quite close.
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post #344 of 741 Old 12-18-2011, 07:49 AM
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Has anyone played around with the Perfect Color/Perfect Tint on the Game mode? That setting seems to really be off on color, yet it is what I need to use for gaming so that there isn't judder while playing.

If anyone has played around with it, would you please share your settings so I have a starting point to begin my tweaking? I don't have a calibration disc or anything, so hoping someone can get me in the ballpark and then I can tweak if needed. Thanks!
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post #345 of 741 Old 12-18-2011, 08:07 AM
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Your free disc is here. Don't forget to download the Patterns Manual too.

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post #346 of 741 Old 12-19-2011, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

I was wondering when someone was going to mention transport to the local dealer. But there's a bit of a difference between shipping a pallet full of widgets to a local dealer and shipping a single widget to the consumer.

You would think, however the biggest factor effects both shipping long hall and delivery from a local B & M. Human error and human nature. Especially if a trucker or local delivery person feels he is not being paid correctly. Its always luck of the draw...... I guess that why we have insurance.

-- Just imagine how fast our world would change if the teleportation machine was invented ! Damb, I'd be in Hawaii right now !
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post #347 of 741 Old 12-20-2011, 09:51 PM
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Just received my A94 this AM and I was so incredibly excited to fire it up! I got a pretty great deal on it (I think) through an Amazon seller, Paul's TV. Total price was less than $3,900 ($1 less to be exact). -[I've had a WD60735 for about 2.5-3 years and I've loved every moment of ownership until the picture just got a little too dim to enjoy some of my darker 3D BDs (Harry Potter, Green Lantern, etc..)]-

After the SINGLE delivery guy from AIT Worldwide somehow hauled it off his truck, up to my building, through the front doors, and up a small flight of stairs on his own, I got down there to help him gently bring it up into my apt. The underside of the box was torn and mangled, but the slide-over top was pristine. hmmm...

There is one major issue that I discovered within the first 15 seconds after I turned it on. The Television performs correctly, the picture quality and color is quite good, except that the projected image is trapezoidal in shape (see pictures). Clearly the interior of this thing has been jostled too much, or was offset to begin with.

This quickly turns into a nightmare moment for me. After spending a colossal amount of dough, it now comes down to a single moment; do I accept the TV or do I refuse and most likely spend the holidays without my A94? The delivery guys were late for their next appnt, adding plenty of awkward decision time in there. They assured me several times that I could still return the TV within 7 days. It would just be sitting in a warehouse if I did, so why not have a mostly-functioning TV until the next one gets shipped out?

It was a harrowing 10 mins for me as I tried to contact Mitsubishi and Amazon, as well as Paul's TV to figure out what to do. I ended up signing for it and adding some thorough notes in the comment section that I was displeased.

Since 9:30 this A.M. Amazon has passed the buck to Paul's TV (and rightfully so.... sorta), Paul's TV denied that I even had an order on record, Mitsubishi was a completely useless phone call, I think I got a 16-year-old on his first day who would NOT stray from his all powerful script. Haha. After waiting for call backs for 4 hours I took the initiative and called Paul's TV again, getting a different lady. She immediately found my order and asked if I would send some photos of the issue for confirmation. I was extremely thorough with my photos and description, and I have since been waiting for a reply. (they did send an acknowledgment)

I will try to keep everyone posted as to what happens in MY Laservue shipping adventure... I somehow knew I'd be next. haha

Otherwise, it really is the most amazing display I've ever laid eyes on. It's just gorgeous.

Speaking of Paul's TV, I visited the La Habra location this morning to check out the A94. I was disappointed. Compared to any of the other televisions in the room, its picture was washed out and soft, a lot like my old 55" Mits 1080i CRT (still in operation). In fact, my current set, a 57831, looks a lot better than the A94.

I stopped also at Best Buy to check out the Sharp Elite. The Viera, Aquos, and Elite have beautiful pictures, much more vivid than the A94. Though I've always been a loyal Mits owner, this is the end. The next set will be a Sharp or Panasonic (or Samsung).

Can anyone tell me where I'm wrong?
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post #348 of 741 Old 12-20-2011, 11:29 PM
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Speaking of Paul's TV, I visited the La Habra location this morning to check out the A94. I was disappointed. Compared to any of the other televisions in the room, its picture was washed out and soft, a lot like my old 55" Mits 1080i CRT (still in operation). In fact, my current set, a 57831, looks a lot better than the A94.

I stopped also at Best Buy to check out the Sharp Elite. The Viera, Aquos, and Elite have beautiful pictures, much more vivid than the A94. Though I've always been a loyal Mits owner, this is the end. The next set will be a Sharp or Panasonic (or Samsung).

Can anyone tell me where I'm wrong?

You are never wrong in what you like. Clearly, though DLPs don't show well in a Big Box store.. and the only set you mention as big or bigger than 75" is the very odinary 80" Sharp Aquos, ordinary in features and ordinary in PQ lor LED. I can't speak to the A-94 but unless it is in the right room the refections will be a problem. I doubt your old CRT holds a candle to the A-94 properly setup and side by side with your CRT at home.... but it is your money spend it how you see it.

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post #349 of 741 Old 12-21-2011, 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Amillennialist View Post

Speaking of Paul's TV, I visited the La Habra location this morning to check out the A94.

Can anyone tell me where I'm wrong?

You looked at uncalibrated displays in a retail store. What were you expecting? Had the A94 been a contestant at the Value Electronics shootout, Elite color issues aside, it would have taken second place after the Elite which is clearly the best TV of the year. The A94 has deeper blacks than the Panasonic VT30, and better color than the Samsung PNXXD8000 which had the best color in the shootout. You read that right. When it comes to flesh tones, the A94 is the better display. This all comes with the caveat that the A94 needs to be in a light controlled room, and in that environment, the picture is stunning.

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post #350 of 741 Old 12-21-2011, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Amillennialist View Post

Speaking of Paul's TV, I visited the La Habra location this morning to check out the A94. I was disappointed. Compared to any of the other televisions in the room, its picture was washed out and soft, a lot like my old 55" Mits 1080i CRT (still in operation). In fact, my current set, a 57831, looks a lot better than the A94.

I stopped also at Best Buy to check out the Sharp Elite. The Viera, Aquos, and Elite have beautiful pictures, much more vivid than the A94. Though I've always been a loyal Mits owner, this is the end. The next set will be a Sharp or Panasonic (or Samsung).

Can anyone tell me where I'm wrong?

What picture mode was the A94 set to? Perhaps one of the dimmer ones. Also, the quality of the feed can have a big influence.
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post #351 of 741 Old 12-21-2011, 03:57 PM
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You are never wrong in what you like. Clearly, though DLPs don't show well in a Big Box store.. and the only set you mention as big or bigger than 75" is the very odinary 80" Sharp Aquos, ordinary in features and ordinary in PQ lor LED. I can't speak to the A-94 but unless it is in the right room the refections will be a problem. I doubt your old CRT holds a candle to the A-94 properly setup and side by side with your CRT at home.... but it is your money spend it how you see it.

When I went to Paul's to buy the 57831 years ago, it was stunning.
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post #352 of 741 Old 12-21-2011, 03:59 PM
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What picture mode was the A94 set to? Perhaps one of the dimmer ones. Also, the quality of the feed can have a big influence.

The salesman let me try each of the settings. All the sets in that section of the store were playing the same feed.
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post #353 of 741 Old 12-21-2011, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

You looked at uncalibrated displays in a retail store. What were you expecting? Had the A94 been a contestant at the Value Electronics shootout, Elite color issues aside, it would have taken second place after the Elite which is clearly the best TV of the year. The A94 has deeper blacks than the Panasonic VT30, and better color than the Samsung PNXXD8000 which had the best color in the shootout. You read that right. When it comes to flesh tones, the A94 is the better display. This all comes with the caveat that the A94 needs to be in a light controlled room, and in that environment, the picture is stunning.

What was I expecting?

I was expecting to see a television that doesn't need several hundreds of extra dollars in post-purchase magic to make it go from looking like a decade-old CRT to a near-Kuro experience.
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post #354 of 741 Old 12-21-2011, 05:37 PM
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The wrong settings will make any display look bad.

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post #355 of 741 Old 12-21-2011, 10:02 PM
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The wrong settings will make any display look bad.

Yes, buzzard, that's my concern.

According to the salesman, all the sets were at stock settings. Shouldn't colors be vibrant and blacks deep at stock settings?

It's not like they're trying to sell televisions or anything.

Thank you for the input, gentlemen.
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post #356 of 741 Old 12-22-2011, 03:42 AM
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Yes, buzzard, that's my concern.

According to the salesman, all the sets were at stock settings. Shouldn't colors be vibrant and blacks deep at stock settings?

It's not like they're trying to sell televisions or anything.

Thank you for the input, gentlemen.

You said the LV picture looked "washed out and soft". The LV in typical store sales modes is anything but. Ask your salesman to define "stock" setting. Then use the remote to see which picture mode you're looking at.

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post #357 of 741 Old 12-22-2011, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Amillennialist View Post

Yes, buzzard, that's my concern.

According to the salesman, all the sets were at stock settings. Shouldn't colors be vibrant and blacks deep at stock settings?

It's not like they're trying to sell televisions or anything.

Thank you for the input, gentlemen.

Keep in mind if you are looking at a 70-80 ft lambert LED in store lighting it is going to pop much more than a 30 ft lambert DLP which is approximately how bright and LED will be when you adjust for evening viewing.

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post #358 of 741 Old 12-22-2011, 08:23 AM
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Speaking of Paul's TV, I visited the La Habra location this morning to check out the A94. I was disappointed. Compared to any of the other televisions in the room, its picture was washed out and soft, a lot like my old 55" Mits 1080i CRT (still in operation). In fact, my current set, a 57831, looks a lot better than the A94.

I stopped also at Best Buy to check out the Sharp Elite. The Viera, Aquos, and Elite have beautiful pictures, much more vivid than the A94. Though I've always been a loyal Mits owner, this is the end. The next set will be a Sharp or Panasonic (or Samsung).

Can anyone tell me where I'm wrong?

I'm going to agree with Gtgray, you really can't be wrong, or go wrong, following your personal preferences. There are a lot of differences in preference and good viewing technologies to address them. But this is an interesting issue, so I'd like to offer a perspective on it as well. Buzz has spoken to the technical capabilities of the A94. From that and other posts on this thread they sound like excellent sets, although I don't own one.

What I like about flat panel displays is precisely what you observed. They look bright and sharp, even brilliant, in almost any light and from almost any vertical viewing angle. You can use them in office and courtroom settings, sports bars, gyms, airports, even indoor and outdoor stadiums, and they still look good, even up high. Under fluorescent lights or incandescent ceiling spots (big box stores and showrooms, for instance), they just blow away rear projection sets. Based on my personal experience, I don't think I could ever bring myself to buy a rear projection set just from comparing it to flat panel displays in showrooms. And yet, my current set is a 92840 and my previous set was a 73833. But I didn't buy them based on how they look under fluorescent lighting in showrooms. I bought them to watch in low-level, warm, ambient lighting in my home. I like watching flat panels in non-light controlled settings because they always look bright and sharp. I don't like watching them for very long for the same reason. Rear projection, like front projection, just seems more natural to my eyes--more film-like for want of a better term, and also less fatiguing to watch for long periods of time. Other people like the pop of plasma and LCD under all conditions. Diversity is great; nice to have choices!

If you like the flat panels you are seeing, and lots of people do, then how can you go wrong? But you spoke of being a loyal Mits owner, and I got the impression that you had been enjoying your 57831. If you really like the look of rear projection better than flat panel for home theater purposes, then I would encourage you to consider taking a chance that the newer DLP technology is both bigger and better than the older technology. I think that the larger the screens get the more the ambient lighting makes a difference. All of these large DLP's seem to flourish best in more light controlled environments--even more so than the smaller models did. But the reward in size and picture quality is worth it. I was lucky to have a really good 73833 (the first diamond model?), and my 92840, with the Clear Contrast screen, has just miles better PQ than the older technology. But I didn't buy either of them based on showroom fluorescent lighting, or ceiling spot lighting, comparing them to flat panel displays. The relative strengths of the various display technologies are just too different.

I decided to add a final thought to this. I am not sure that everyone sees a difference between front and rear projection technologies and various flat panel displays, or seeing, cares. Our preferences are all different. If you don't, you can't go wrong buying based on what you do see and like. Only if something specific about DLP's is appealing: whether it is a natural-looking picture; size vis-a-vis affordability; deep blacks, or thinner box of the Laservue; or whatever, is the opinion of other Mits owners relevant. But if you still lean toward rear projection, then it may be helpful to hear other owners on all three Mits threads say that the new DLP technology and resulting PQ is even better than on the old sets, for that seems to be the clear consensus.
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post #359 of 741 Old 12-22-2011, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

You said the LV picture looked "washed out and soft". The LV in typical store sales modes is anything but. Ask your salesman to define "stock" setting. Then use the remote to see which picture mode you're looking at.

I did that.
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post #360 of 741 Old 12-22-2011, 02:06 PM
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I did that.

And? Did you select Bright which would give you 51 foot Lamberts peak white luminance? How about the Brilliant mode which boosts output to 62 fL and also gives you plenty (understatement) of color saturation. I've read in forums that some people prefer Brilliant but personally I'd have to load up on Dramamine first....

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