Official 2011 Mitsubishi Laservue L75-A94 Owner's Thread - Page 14 - AVS Forum
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post #391 of 741 Old 01-08-2012, 10:53 PM
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I guess my point it that an 82" is a big display and the it should be darned bright. I am not convinced that the LaserVue really produces significantly better light. The only thing I could think of was less light scatter but I don't think what comes out of the lens is much different so the light scatter of the inside the screen should be much the same. The blacks might be better, but one earlier gen LaserVues I just could not see anything about them that distringuished them really from the UHP Lamp models. They LaserVues are harder to calibrate accurately because of the laser. Really need a very high end spectrometer 5 nm to measure the laser properly.

I did another autocalibration tonight where when its was complete I hand tweaked the gamut settings by maually adjusting luminance on each color and the rsulting color CIE 94 dEs were all at or under 1.0. You begin to be wasting your time seeking smaller colors errors than that. Red error was like dE 0.3 but at that point you start to get the tolerance of the meter.

The on off contrast on the 82840 would likely be pretty high, you would have to tone it down at night or it would nearly burn your retinas out.. There is inter scene contrast and here the laser might hold an edge because of its blacks, but that would be only in a very dark room. 82840s should be available easily for 2.5K or less. I am probably 50 hours from the lamp being really stable. I will hand tweak the night calibration to the lowest error I can get. I will also do a daylight calibration, never bother with that before but why not?

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post #392 of 741 Old 01-09-2012, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post

I was waiting to see if Buzz or someone else wanted to respond, but I would like to offer some thoughts. I would take it for granted that LS would develop more brightness, but I don't know that it would be significant. Gtgray measured 44 FL on the 92840 and that is a lot. My own thoughts were going in a different direction. For about the same price as the A94, you could also consider the 92". I have sunlight at the opposite end of a long room with mine and watch afternoon football (today, in fact) with no problem. From 14', and from the kitchen, the larger screen would be a big help. I am reluctant to advise someone unless he is already leaning toward a particular set, but I wanted the largest really good display available (affordably so, anyway), and that is why I went with the 92840. Terrific picture quality in a very large display!

Thank you very much for the feedback as well. Really appreciate it as I cannot seem to find a place to visually see them (and even then, I'm actually thinking I won't see the unit properly setup and this would definitely not help convince the wife ) in the Syracuse area. There is Aaron's Rent-a-Center but they dont have the Clear Contrast models (A75, 82840, 92840) and the next closest I've found is hhGreg about 100 miles south but no A75 or 840 series either in the locations.

I had noticed the 92840 is about the same or slightly less than the A75 these days but the 1 concern I did have was whether it had a lot of hotspots in the picture given its size. Not too worried about anything too far off the horizontal axis (beyond 45 deg) but mostly the vertical as I had ideally planned to locate it on my existing media console which is about 20" off the ground. I thought the 75 or 82 would put the sweet spot right at eye level but definitely would consider it given that I'd actually like to pull the viewing distance back from 14' to about 18' anyway.
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post #393 of 741 Old 01-09-2012, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

I guess my point it that an 82" is a big display and the it should be darned bright. I am not convinced that the LaserVue really produces significantly better light. The only thing I could think of was less light scatter but I don't think what comes out of the lens is much different so the light scatter of the inside the screen should be much the same. The blacks might be better, but one earlier gen LaserVues I just could not see anything about them that distringuished them really from the UHP Lamp models. They LaserVues are harder to calibrate accurately because of the laser. Really need a very high end spectrometer 5 nm to measure the laser properly.

Thats pretty encouraging to hear on the 82840 since the wife had discussed taking a trip to see family this summer & the cost delta between the 82840 & the A75 is right about the price of the tickets for us. So I could be a real hero if the 82840 serves the purpose as our next family/theater room display & we can take the trip she wants!

But to the comparison, wow...44 ft Lamberts? Is that achievable out of the box (with simple settings) or do you need to configure via the Service Menu to achieve? I'm not a video expert per se but I generally understand what I'm poking at when I see the terms/verbiage being used. Obviously I can't calibrate it myself but just thinking about the first couple of weeks experience with it as I do like to configure my own "toys" to the extent possible.
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post #394 of 741 Old 01-09-2012, 11:55 AM
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And also, just wanted to say that I would like to hear any other thoughts on the A75 if anybody has thoughts on it in comparison to the other CCS models (or even just an opinion on the A75). I don't mean to hijack the LS thread just very interested to hear the opinions & feedback as I've been leaning towards the A75 but haven't been able to see one in person.
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post #395 of 741 Old 01-09-2012, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by max58 View Post

Thats pretty encouraging to hear on the 82840 since the wife had discussed taking a trip to see family this summer & the cost delta between the 82840 & the A75 is right about the price of the tickets for us. So I could be a real hero if the 82840 serves the purpose as our next family/theater room display & we can take the trip she wants!

But to the comparison, wow...44 ft Lamberts? Is that achievable out of the box (with simple settings) or do you need to configure via the Service Menu to achieve? I'm not a video expert per se but I generally understand what I'm poking at when I see the terms/verbiage being used. Obviously I can't calibrate it myself but just thinking about the first couple of weeks experience with it as I do like to configure my own "toys" to the extent possible.

Put the lamp on bright, the contrast at default. I only have the one example to go by. The clear screen makes a big difference. Also these sets don't have a dynamic iris which lowered the overall brightness some as well.

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post #396 of 741 Old 01-15-2012, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgarver View Post

So my 5th Laservue just arrived by Manna. Bill of Laiding clearly said for the TV to remain on the skids all the way to my house. TV showed up loose in the back of the truck. Refused the delivery. I'm done. I'm demanding a full refund. Elite here I come.

WOW. So where do you live anyway? At that point, if you where close enough, I know we would have done different things. Keep in mind that is not standard to any degree. Lets put it to you this way, if you could transform this bad luck into good luck you would be a winner at powerball !!

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Originally Posted by Amillennialist View Post

People don't take pride in their work anymore.

Most companies do not care about there employee's. Most companies do not pay enough for people to care. It stinks
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post #397 of 741 Old 01-17-2012, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Most companies do not care about there employee's. Most companies do not pay enough for people to care. It stinks

To be my very picky self. Don't you mean "their employee's." ???

Nothing in this posting/signature really means anything in the long run.
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post #398 of 741 Old 01-17-2012, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhvsfan View Post

To be my very picky self. Don't you mean "their employee's." ???

Perhaps you'd like to clean up the apostrophe in the plural of employee.

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post #399 of 741 Old 01-17-2012, 03:13 PM
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Whoops

Nothing in this posting/signature really means anything in the long run.
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post #400 of 741 Old 01-17-2012, 04:59 PM
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Sad..... what about u speak 4 all of us, or Ri for us.
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post #401 of 741 Old 01-19-2012, 09:13 AM
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I went to the local HHGREG to see if I could see one of these in the store. The did not have one and I am not surprised. I will have to call around to see one if I can. They did have a couple of 73 inchers and a 92 in on the floor. As was said earlier in this thread the DLP TVs do not look impressive in a non light controlled area. The smooth screen models looked even worse unless you realized that these would look great in a bias light environment. I wonder if they sell any of the DLP TVs with the way they compared to the LCD TVs.
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post #402 of 741 Old 01-19-2012, 09:45 AM
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This bias lighting is terrific! Highly recommend. No more watching in total darkness to avoid reflections in the mirror-like screen. Thanks, Buzz.
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post #403 of 741 Old 01-19-2012, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bayoubear View Post

If they do it will be a 4k2k as in this link:
http://dvice.com/archives/2010/02/just-when-you-t.php

I don't get this. A native double resolution I could understand, but how do you take a 1080p and 'upscale' it in a way that looks better than native when there is no more source data to interpret.

Unfortunately, except for blu-ray which I watch little of, most sources that feed my A91 are 720p, which look very good.

These 4k sets at CES are a pipe dream for a long time because even blu-ray can't drive them natively and most say blu-ray is the last disc format we will see before everything is streaming. However, there are very few high quality 1080p streaming sources and that maxes out many broadband connections. What kind of broadband would you need to give a high quality 4k image and how many years will it be before enough americans have affordable access to that bandwidth to drive the demand for those sets?

I'm thinking 10years out at least.
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post #404 of 741 Old 01-19-2012, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mchinsky View Post

I don't get this. A native double resolution I could understand, but how do you take a 1080p and 'upscale' it in a way that looks better than native when there is no more source data to interpret.

Through interpolation. The signal processing algorithms look at the known data around the missing data points and intelligently estimate what they should be. If done well, the results can be quite good (nearly native looking). And if you need more convincing, go look at a SD DVD (480p) played on an old CRT set compared to the same play on a 1080p (preferably upscaled through a good oppo bluray player). The potential is definitely there for 4k, especially with larger screen sizes.

Also, since the upscaling occurs in the TV, the fact that there no 4k source materials is moot. You just feed it the same HD source you normally would. Of course, the devil is in the details. If not implemented well, it could certainly be bust. Should be interesting to see how it plays out.
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post #405 of 741 Old 01-20-2012, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhvsfan View Post

To be my very picky self. Don't you mean "their employee's." ???

Well thanks for correcting me Nice to see that the laservue's took a little price drop.....
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post #406 of 741 Old 01-21-2012, 09:48 AM
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jasonmichaelh, I am investigating an issue common to all 2011 WD-73640 DLP (tested so far), and possibly common to all 2011 DLPs, and possibly common to all 2011 Lasevue's. The following test will tell us.

Since you have a PC connected to your TV, will you please run this simple test:

0. Turn off all sharpening on the TV.
1. Bring up an image I provide.
2. Change it's colors using your graphics card's color correction controls.
3. Observe facial features go sharp when green, blue, or purple, but blurred when normal skin tone.

With more detail:

0. Turn off all sharpening on the TV. (No other TV setting matters.)

1. Bring up the image I provide at this avsforums post: (be sure to download the full size, 1800x1000 pixel image)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post21503863


2. Using your PC's Hue control, rotate the colors around, so that faces turn to green, blue, purple and back to skin tone. Detailed instructions for an NVIDA card are demonstrated in the video here. I can also help with an ATI card.

http://www.showmeamemory.com/Other/B...1060333_FDk7tz

3. Watch for blurring / gross change in sharpness as color output to the TV change. Watch also for horrendous artifacts in the image wherever reds are nears white and blacks, such as the pajamas, the brick wall, and the youtube logo.

For everyone, the above video shows this.

For anyone who wants to test themselves, without having to rotate colors themselves, simply play the 2nd video in that gallery, "Full HD" size, full screen. Other sizes will also demonstrate the defect.

Remember, the defects observed are not in the source.

There is plenty to read about it in the linked video gallery, but questions are welcome by all.

Thank you immensely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonmichaelh View Post

The geometry on my laservue is much better than the 73xxx model I had (2007 or 2008 diamond model). Its not perfect, but I've never observed curved buildings and never watch 4:3 material so don't know about that.

It does look very good when used as a pc display which I do frequently. Of course I've been using dlp for this function since 2008 and might be conditioned to it.


|
|
2011 Mits DLP owners: upgrade firmware to 13.06 to fix picture quality. More here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post21726833
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post #407 of 741 Old 01-21-2012, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thhowl View Post

jasonmichaelh, I am investigating an issue common to all 2011 WD-73640 DLP (tested so far), and possibly common to all 2011 DLPs, and possibly common to all 2011 Lasevue's. The following test will tell us.

Since you have a PC connected to your TV, will you please run this simple test:

0. Turn off all sharpening on the TV.
1. Bring up an image I provide.
2. Change it's colors using your graphics card's color correction controls.
3. Observe facial features go sharp when green, blue, or purple, but blurred when normal skin tone.

With more detail:

0. Turn off all sharpening on the TV. (No other TV setting matters.)

1. Bring up the image I provide at this avsforums post: (be sure to download the full size, 1800x1000 pixel image)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post21503863


2. Using your PC's Hue control, rotate the colors around, so that faces turn to green, blue, purple and back to skin tone. Detailed instructions for an NVIDA card are demonstrated in the video here. I can also help with an ATI card.

http://www.showmeamemory.com/Other/B...1060333_FDk7tz

3. Watch for blurring / gross change in sharpness as color output to the TV change. Watch also for horrendous artifacts in the image wherever reds are nears white and blacks, such as the pajamas, the brick wall, and the youtube logo.

For everyone, the above video shows this.

For anyone who wants to test themselves, without having to rotate colors themselves, simply play the 2nd video in that gallery, "Full HD" size, full screen. Other sizes will also demonstrate the defect.

Remember, the defects observed are not in the source.

There is plenty to read about it in the linked video gallery, but questions are welcome by all.

Thank you immensely.

That does not appear to be a problem on the L75-A94.

I put the tv on:

-Cinema
-Contrast 63
-Brightness 31
-Color 31
-Tint 31
-Sharpness 0
-Color Temp Low
-Video Noise Off
-EdgeEnhance Off
-Deepfield Off

Note that sharpness does not appear to work unless EdgeEnhance is On.

Test was performed in two ways: I watched video #2, and downloaded your pic and adjusted hue with the nVidia control panel.

I was not overly ciritical in trying to assess if there were any artifacts less gross than the brick wall as demonstrated in your video #1. The brick wall did not degrade in sharpness or exhibit artifacts.

Maybe they actually put more expensive components in these things
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post #408 of 741 Old 01-21-2012, 04:25 PM
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Thanks very much, Jason. I can confirm that if you did not see the obvious defects in the brick wall or especially the pajamas, you do not have the color decoding defect at all.

Good for you! and thanks again.

|
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2011 Mits DLP owners: upgrade firmware to 13.06 to fix picture quality. More here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post21726833
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post #409 of 741 Old 01-22-2012, 03:59 PM
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My L75-A94 is blurry in the bottom left corner. Is there any way to fix this?
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post #410 of 741 Old 01-22-2012, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkelecy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mchinsky View Post

I don't get this. A native double resolution I could understand, but how do you take a 1080p and 'upscale' it in a way that looks better than native when there is no more source data to interpret.

Through interpolation. The signal processing algorithms look at the known data around the missing data points and intelligently estimate what they should be. If done well, the results can be quite good (nearly native looking).

In addition to the general benefits of upscaling, it can also be particularly beneficial in projection sets like these that need geometry correction. Currently geometry correction means loss of 1:1 pixel mapping, which can reduce resolvable detail below the source material. A set with a native resolution higher than the software could upscale with the geometry correction taken into account for, maintaining the source detail.

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post #411 of 741 Old 02-07-2012, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mchinsky View Post

These 4k sets at CES are a pipe dream for a long time because even blu-ray can't drive them natively and most say blu-ray is the last disc format we will see before everything is streaming. However, there are very few high quality 1080p streaming sources and that maxes out many broadband connections. What kind of broadband would you need to give a high quality 4k image and how many years will it be before enough americans have affordable access to that bandwidth to drive the demand for those sets?

I'm thinking 10years out at least.

Reminds me of Bill Gates - "Nobody will need more than 640 Kilobytes of RAM" (Paraphrased). Now we have machines with +4 Gigabytes of RAM.
Guessing technology is a tricky business.
It MAY be awhile before we get 4K broadband to the home but you can get ~4K from high-end PC graphics cards for gamers ($500-$600). So if the 4K sets can merge video from multiple inputs, you can get games as source material relatively inexpensively.

Nothing in this posting/signature really means anything in the long run.
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post #412 of 741 Old 02-10-2012, 11:55 AM
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3D Calibration

I only have DLP Link glasses and there are a couple caveats. 3D calibration is accomplished with the meter looking through one of the lenses of the glasses. The glasses I use are Optoma ZD101s. Different glasses produce different results. DLP Link probably affects readings due to the white synchronization flashes.

I used an Accupel DVG-5000 pattern generator which is capable of outputting all of the required 3D patterns. However, instead of seeing window patterns with a black background, the background was a much lighter gray. This extra brightness creeps into the window patterns and has some effect on the readings.


Picture Mode ISF Day / 3D
The next four auto functions OFF
Brightness 38
Contrast 63
Color 31
Tint 31
Sharpness 6
Gamma 2.2
RH 1020
GH 973
BH 1023
RL 4
GL -1
BL -1
Blue Only OFF
R 18,0,0
G 3,24,0
B 0,0,10
M 21,1,18
C 0,18,18
Y 19,13,0

Grayscale dE was reduced from 17.1 to 3.9, color from 6.9 to 4.5. Most of the error in color is due to undersaturation and it is perfectly understandable due to the synchronization flashes (the way color is desaturated is by adding white). Color luminance was all over the map and the L94 CMS can only go so far to correct the errors. Viewing 3D content was acceptable, especially for skin tones. I believe the Masters golf tournament in April will be broadcast in 3D and if the grass looks natural I'll be satisfied that I'm getting all I can out of the LaserVue.

Natural Picture Mode
Contrast 63
Brightness 31
Color 35
Tint 37
Sharpness 6
Color Temp Low

The natural mode produced the next best picture and it was perfectly watchable.

All modes brighter than Natural oversaturated colors by a long shot and they could not be pulled back in. Colors had a neon appearance and I wouldn't recommend any of these modes for 2D much less 3D.

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post #413 of 741 Old 02-16-2012, 02:58 PM
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Hi,

Normally I've posted in the L75-A91 thread since that is my current TV since June of 2010, but recently an issue arose w/ the screen & when I contacted Mits I was informed the part(s) to fix my issue is no longer carried by them in inventory & so they offered to upgrad me to the L75-A94 free, but I had to pay shipping, so I agreed.

So I'll be waiting w/ great anticipation for it's arrival, hoping the delivery ppl don't damage it in route & I don't end up w/ a lemon. If all goes well I'll be posting here a bit, so welcome me w/ open arms! Haha!

Some time next wk it should arrive I think.

GO SPURS! GO COWBOYS!
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post #414 of 741 Old 02-21-2012, 07:01 AM
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TV arrived @ the local terminal & I've scheduled for a delivery this week. I'm nervous!

GO SPURS! GO COWBOYS!
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post #415 of 741 Old 02-21-2012, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSKILZ View Post

TV arrived @ the local terminal & I've scheduled for a delivery this week. I'm nervous!

Crossing my fingers for you! I was in the same boat with my A91 until they had to start replacing it with A94s.
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post #416 of 741 Old 02-23-2012, 08:51 AM
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TMSKILLZ.

Were you getting faint white blotches when the screen is suppose to be totally black? Something I notice on mine, seems like light bleed from other operating components.
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post #417 of 741 Old 02-23-2012, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mchinsky View Post


These 4k sets at CES are a pipe dream for a long time because even blu-ray can't drive them natively and most say blu-ray is the last disc format we will see before everything is streaming. .

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/4381...n-blu-ray-2013

LG and Sony on board for that time frame. The others will be on in that same time frame. The U.S.A doesn't have the infrastucture to stream even a 1080p signal to our homes and will take much longer than 10 years with the way congress won't pass any provisions to upgrade our infrastructure or help companies trying to do so. 4K2 Scaler chips and systems will sell like hotcakes. This is why "hard" media such as blu-ray won't go way anytime soon or in the future. Hell, CBS won't even show todays game shows in HD like Family Feud. (Watched in horror last night as it was in 480p.) I couldn't believe it in this day and age.

In short, yes 4K2K will be here and soon. The market for decent Upconverstion Video Processing won't be stagnet like it is now with just the likes of DVDO and Lumagen being the major players. Investment opportunity in the near future? You bet your ass! With the U.S.A crappy infrastructure, there will be a nice amount to be made. Even if it takes 5 years for market penetration, our system is not going to be close to an all fiber optic network to handle the amount of info.

Cool Beans.
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post #418 of 741 Old 02-23-2012, 05:59 PM
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TMSKILLZ.

Were you getting faint white blotches when the screen is suppose to be totally black? Something I notice on mine, seems like light bleed from other operating components.

I attached 2 files one is the original showing the smudge, the 2nd is the same copy edited using MS Pain to better outline in white the pattern of the smudge.
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post #419 of 741 Old 02-24-2012, 06:09 PM
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I've found a place in town that is selling an open box L75-A94 for $2,000 pre-tax. I'm going to be moving from a Panasonic 50" VT-25. The plastic around the four corners of the frame are still on the A94. I tried to do some tweaking in store to see how I nice I could get the image. They initially had it on Super Brilliant. I tried 3D with a SBS demo and my Panasonic 3D glasses. I also threw up an overscan image and it looks like the TV's got just under 5% (maybe 3-3 1/2). And then I did a 1080p trailer of Super 8.

A) Am I crazy to NOT get this TV?

B) I'm scared about coming from plasma over to the LaserVue in reference to deep blacks. Since there was so much light, I was having trouble discerning how dark this screen can get. Will I be satisfied in low/no light?

C) Should I be concerned getting one of these out of warranty? I was there a few weeks ago when the TV was priced at $2,500. I can't see any visible flaws at all. They've told me that they just can't move this TV and I'm afraid at this price that someone else will snatch it from me.

I do plan to get it calibrated in a couple of months (buying this will literally wipe me out in the short term) and the guy at the store said they have a 5 month warranty with TVs over $1,000 and then I could buy an extended one through one of their 3rd party friends (at half price).

Also, anything else I should check out before I commit?
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post #420 of 741 Old 02-24-2012, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmmakingFiasco View Post

I've found a place in town that is selling an open box L75-A94 for $2,000 pre-tax. I'm going to be moving from a Panasonic 50" VT-25. The plastic around the four corners of the frame are still on the A94. I tried to do some tweaking in store to see how I nice I could get the image. They initially had it on Super Brilliant. I tried 3D with a SBS demo and my Panasonic 3D glasses. I also threw up an overscan image and it looks like the TV's got just under 5% (maybe 3-3 1/2). And then I did a 1080p trailer of Super 8.

A) Am I crazy to NOT get this TV?

B) I'm scared about coming from plasma over to the LaserVue in reference to deep blacks. Since there was so much light, I was having trouble discerning how dark this screen can get. Will I be satisfied in low/no light?

C) Should I be concerned getting one of these out of warranty? I was there a few weeks ago when the TV was priced at $2,500. I can't see any visible flaws at all. They've told me that they just can't move this TV and I'm afraid at this price that someone else will snatch it from me.

I do plan to get it calibrated in a couple of months (buying this will literally wipe me out in the short term) and the guy at the store said they have a 5 month warranty with TVs over $1,000 and then I could buy an extended one through one of their 3rd party friends (at half price).

Also, anything else I should check out before I commit?

Film, I can give you my own experience & opinion about the Tv in regards to blks. I'm no professional calibrator & don't use any pro equipment. But I can tell you that to me when testing out my TV using 3D recorded content from DirecTV, there was a program in 3D about a future space civilization & in the scene where it shows a blk universe w/ earth in the far background distance, it looked pitch black to me.

Dark & blk scenes in normal 2D DirecTV viewing look good to me.

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