Why the hatred for DLP? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 378 Old 09-11-2011, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Lbear View Post

I'm sorry but that does NOT look well adapted. Aesthetically that does not work. You have a center channel speaker mounted to a wall, projecting out, the cords and wires are showing. Then you have a rack in the corner of the room with a receiver. Makes no sense.

He could have simply bought a nice rack, installed the center speaker on the rack, the receiver, the cables would be hidden behind the rack, and the flat screen could have been either put on top of the rack or still mounted on the wall, but the way it looks now is not appealing, aesthetically.

I agree with you.

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post #92 of 378 Old 09-13-2011, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnythan View Post

I wouldn't want to watch a DLP full-time as I dislike the picture you get from a rear-projection set (as I said, there's something about a rear-projected image that I simply don't like as much as a more direct-view tech such as plasma or FP)

Do you think you could describe in more objective terms the difference you see in a rear-projected image? and then point out the parts you don't like?

personally, as a serious amateur photographer, I'm quite picky about image quality and find my Mits 65" DLP to have an excellent picture. I find the shadow and highlight detail excellent, without crushed blacks or blown out brights. Colors are clear, bright and not garish like the LCDs or plasmas in the store (yes, they are misadjusted). Many times the picture is so good I sit there amazed at the virtual window in front of me. It seems very film like to me.

The one area I concede is the viewing angles from the extreme side angles.
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post #93 of 378 Old 09-13-2011, 06:22 AM
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I am in the process of repairing my relationship with my DLP set.

Had a new light engine installed on Saturday, due to the old one developing white dots on the screen.

This is the 2nd light engine replacement on this set, the first being for a bad ballast which only was available on my model by replacing the whole light engine.

After this second transplant, and going through 6 replacement lamps in 4 years (much due to the ballast issue in the 1st light engine) my set is now working as it did out of the box when new.

Owning a DLP set has, for me, been like having a British car - fun to own, but unreliable.

When the repair guy finished the light engine install, we powered up the set to make sure the white dots were gone. In front of my was a solid black screen - with perfect uniformity.

No hot spots, flishlighting, or light leakage of any type was present. Hooking up my components allowed me to again appreciate the excellent screen uniformity, lack of glare, and natural picture presentation.

Faces had a natural skin tone, with plenty of detail. Grass looked like something grown in nature - rather than a neon filled field, and motion was as smooth as butter.

I have been fortunate in that my extended warranty has covered every penny of cost associated with this set, since the origional purchase.

The honeymoon is now over, as the extended warranty on the set has expired, and the lamp warranty has long been used up.

I'm hoping that my set has seen the error of it's ways and behaves in a much more responsible (and economical) fashion from here on. If so, our relationship will continue to heal and grow.

If not, I'll probably move to a younger, slimmer model. I certainly would'd be the first.
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post #94 of 378 Old 09-13-2011, 01:19 PM
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Interesting story. Most others would of dumped the set by now.

Ok, what is the make and model??

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
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post #95 of 378 Old 09-13-2011, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btinindy View Post

I have a good friend that calibrates video and audio for a living. Also, this is well worth the investment to get this done correctly.

The last time he came over he calibrated my new plasma and the toshiba dlp that i have that i put a new bulb in he told me the biggest drawback to the dlp rptv's and PJ's is that because the light output differs significantly with time the picture will change significantly with time.

It was mentioned above that yes you can replace the bulb and clean the mirrors and you get the "New" picture back, but that lamp assembly is expensive (Way overpriced) and everyone this is done you have to re-calibrate again. With the plasma, you set it and forget it. I still really enjoy the dlp tv and with ,ost common viewing I do not notice any picture difference, but when I replaced the lamp, cleaned the mirrors and re-calibrated I realized what I had been missing.

Depending on the vintage of the set lamps were very expensive. The $99 Mits charges for a new lamp on recent machines is certainly not a big deal. I changed lamps at over 3700 hours many would go far longer. That is just a little over 2.5 cents an hour.

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post #96 of 378 Old 09-13-2011, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Interesting story. Most others would of dumped the set by now.

Ok, what is the make and model??

Toshiba 65hm167.

I would have dumped the set earlier but I did get all repairs covered 100% under extended warranty and other options with the same screen size all had their issues.

LCD sets in the big sizes were hard/impossible until very recently and plasma has the ir/burnin issues that are not a factor with DLP.

Overall, although my set has had it's share of issues, I have only been totally without it working a total of about 2 days - while I was waiting for my 1st replacement lamp. Since then, I've had one on reserve.

I have found that my set will only work well with Toshiba branded lamps. The extended warranty company kept sending me off branded lamps and they would work for a week or two and then develop problems firing. Never had this with a Toshiba lamp.

Because of the bad lamps they were sending me, they eventually figured the ballast must be bad and replaced the light engine the first time. When that didn't work, they paid for Toshiba lamps and the issue went away.

The DLP white dot issue seems common to all DLP makes. Repair guy indicated that heat just destroys them over time, in spite of a fan directly over the chip.
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post #97 of 378 Old 09-13-2011, 03:54 PM
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Quote:


The DLP white dot issue seems common to all DLP makes. Repair guy indicated that heat just destroys them over time, in spite of a fan directly over the chip.

Sony had a huge problem with the "green glob" with their LCoS sets.
JVC had a problem with CA (chromatic aberration) with their D-ILA sets.

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post #98 of 378 Old 09-13-2011, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btinindy View Post

I have a good friend that calibrates video and audio for a living. Also, this is well worth the investment to get this done correctly.

The last time he came over he calibrated my new plasma and the toshiba dlp that i have that i put a new bulb in he told me the biggest drawback to the dlp rptv's and PJ's is that because the light output differs significantly with time the picture will change significantly with time.

It was mentioned above that yes you can replace the bulb and clean the mirrors and you get the "New" picture back, but that lamp assembly is expensive (Way overpriced) and everyone this is done you have to re-calibrate again. With the plasma, you set it and forget it. I still really enjoy the dlp tv and with ,ost common viewing I do not notice any picture difference, but when I replaced the lamp, cleaned the mirrors and re-calibrated I realized what I had been missing.

So what a shame that Samsung ended production of their DLPs since it used a bulbless LED technology. I have a 2008 61" Samsung LED DLP still doing well.
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post #99 of 378 Old 09-13-2011, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aydu View Post

Toshiba 65hm167.

I would have dumped the set earlier but I did get all repairs covered 100% under extended warranty and other options with the same screen size all had their issues.

LCD sets in the big sizes were hard/impossible until very recently and plasma has the ir/burnin issues that are not a factor with DLP.

Overall, although my set has had it's share of issues, I have only been totally without it working a total of about 2 days - while I was waiting for my 1st replacement lamp. Since then, I've had one on reserve.

I have found that my set will only work well with Toshiba branded lamps. The extended warranty company kept sending me off branded lamps and they would work for a week or two and then develop problems firing. Never had this with a Toshiba lamp.

Because of the bad lamps they were sending me, they eventually figured the ballast must be bad and replaced the light engine the first time. When that didn't work, they paid for Toshiba lamps and the issue went away.

The DLP white dot issue seems common to all DLP makes. Repair guy indicated that heat just destroys them over time, in spite of a fan directly over the chip.

I think another poster mentioned that DLP optical engines pre 2008 were more prone to failure.

I read a tech paper on DLP, and one of the issues was heat, particularly as it affected the structural material into which the semiconductor mirrors were placed. From what I read, such materials evolved over time to be more resistant to heat and failure.

Of course lamps need to be replaced, but the poster who commented on dimming of picture should realize that plasmas and lcds fade...without remedy.
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post #100 of 378 Old 09-18-2011, 02:43 PM
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Was good tech for the price back in its heyday, but now its basically gone wayside
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post #101 of 378 Old 09-18-2011, 09:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 1ceTr0n View Post

Was good tech for the price back in its heyday, but now its basically gone wayside

And so says the guy with 5 posts under his belt.

Wayside? They are producing newer models and bigger screens as we type.
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post #102 of 378 Old 09-18-2011, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 1ceTr0n View Post

Was good tech for the price back in its heyday, but now its basically gone wayside

73" of pure reference in my book and is cutting edge in picture quality
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post #103 of 378 Old 09-19-2011, 03:33 AM
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Quote:


Was good tech for the price back in its heyday, but now its basically gone wayside

"in it's heyday"???? One would think you are talking about 8 track recorders.
Newbies gone berserk.

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
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post #104 of 378 Old 09-19-2011, 06:11 AM
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Well, when a technology is reduced in presence to one manufacturer, it isn't exactly in growth mode.

DLP sets have disappeared from the major electronics stores.

Even my local Mitsubishi automobile dealer has replaced the Mitsubishi DLP set in their customer waiting room with a flat panel from another manufacturer.
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post #105 of 378 Old 09-19-2011, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce
"in it's heyday"???? One would think you are talking about 8 track recorders.
Newbies gone berserk.
Not far off. They have almost completely disappeared from the market.
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post #106 of 378 Old 09-19-2011, 08:33 AM
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Reeeeeeeally?

I don't want to directly quote responses in other threads without the member's permission, so here's a link to the Fry's thread, where people are seeing new Mits DLP's on the floor or online:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1342312

Seems to me like just the opposite is happening. Posting mis-information on a message board the size of this one is very uncool jonny.

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post #107 of 378 Old 09-19-2011, 08:39 AM
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Fry's is a discount mega-tailer.

There is only one manufacturer and virtually no mainstream retailer in the nation carries their line.

I just searched on Frys.com and only two models say anything other than "not available" for store pickup.
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post #108 of 378 Old 09-19-2011, 08:57 AM
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Here are a bunch of them at BestBuy:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Televisi...d=abcat0101002
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnythan
Fry's is a discount mega-tailer.
Point being? All I know is, when I'm driving in my car, and I see a Fry's, and I pull into the parking lot, and walk in the door, I can then buy anything I want.

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post #109 of 378 Old 09-19-2011, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by rich3fan View Post
Here are a bunch of them at BestBuy:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Televisi...d=abcat0101002

Point being? All I know is, when I'm driving in my car, and I see a Fry's, and I pull into the parking lot, and walk in the door, I can then buy anything I want.
I entered my zip code in the "Check Stock In Stores Near Me" box and got "There are not any stores within a 50 mile radius of xxxxx with any of the displayed products in stock." Furthermore, the entire "Rear Projection TVs" section has 7 models while the flat-panel (LCD and plasma) has 399.

Whatever else you say about the qualities of DLP, it's a technology that has without question "gone by the wayside." Its market presence is decreasing, it's down to a single manufacturer, and it's extremely difficult to find even a single set in a store.
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post #110 of 378 Old 09-19-2011, 09:55 AM
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Jonnythan is right in one regard. The mass market as a whole is moving towards flat panel for many reasons. Simplicity of set up, size, weight...

But the picture quality is another story. The new 75 inch Laservue and the 92 inch bulb model are stunners PQ-wise. And for many, watching RP is much better for the eyes than most flat panels.

Yes, there is something eye-catching about the flat panels, with their computer like, razor sharpness, but try sitting and watching a long movie (or several) on both displays. The RPs are much less fatiguing visually, and this is not just my own opinion.

If Mitsubishi is smart, they would move to a three DMD design, as on the best front projectors. This would have all kinds of benefits for resolution, eliminating all rainbows, and greatly enhancing 3D.

There are interesting things happening on the flat panel side. The new Sharp Elites apparently have better than Kuro black levels, which is a very good development.

But DLP is not a dead technology. It depends on how Mits develops it. And RP (DLP or otherwise) is easy on the eyes.
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post #111 of 378 Old 09-19-2011, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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You posted this over a week ago:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnythan View Post

I have tried my honest best to explain what some of those reasons are, and I have failed miserably. I am out of this thread.

You broke your promise & returned and continue repeating the anti-DLP diatribe:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnythan View Post

Not far off. They have almost completely disappeared from the market.

OK, we get it, you dislike DLP's.

I honestly believe it's because of misinformation and people like you who have some type of deep-rooted anti-DLP hatred brewing inside of them that causes the misinformation that is spread about DLPs. Your like those guys who troll around GM forums making posts about how Toyota's are better.

When one can buy a 73" TV that is 3D ready for $1,300 with an awesome picture, it has selling power. That same 73" set in plasma or LCD would cost you $3,000+. When one can buy a 82" DLP TV for $1,900, it has selling power. That same 82" set in plasma or LCD would cost you $5,000.
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post #112 of 378 Old 09-19-2011, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lbear View Post

You posted this over a week ago:

You broke your promise & returned and continue repeating the anti-DLP diatribe:

Ah, you're right, I forgot about that. Oh well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lbear View Post

OK, we get it, you dislike DLP's.

I honestly believe it's because of misinformation and people like you who have some type of deep-rooted anti-DLP hatred brewing inside of them that causes the misinformation that is spread about DLPs. Your like those guys who troll around GM forums making posts about how Toyota's are better.

When one can buy a 73" TV that is 3D ready for $1,300 with an awesome picture, it has selling power. That same 73" set in plasma or LCD would cost you $3,000+. When one can buy a 82" DLP TV for $1,900, it has selling power. That same 82" set in plasma or LCD would cost you $5,000.

You think I have some deep-rooted anti-DLP hatred because of what I posted in this thread?

Really?

Have you read my posts here? I don't hate DLP. I personally don't like it, for a few reasons, and I tried to voice those reasons here. You and others have taken any criticism of DLP, no matter how valid or factual, and read it as a vicious attack on your favorite technology.

You're taking this way, way too personally. I don't care about DLPs. I don't care who likes DLP. I don't hate anything.

Go close your eyes, take a few deep breaths, and reread my posts here with a clear, unbiased head.

By the way, DLP has indeed "fallen by the wayside." Despite your fervent, frequent protests about how incredibly inexpensive it is per inch of screen, none of the nation's largest TV dealers (Best Buy, Walmart, Target, Sam's, Sears) seem to carry any of the TVs in their stores.

What do you call a technology that used to be commonplace but has now been almost completely squeezed out of the market - down to a single manufacturer and virtually zero retail presence - besides "fallen by the wayside"?
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post #113 of 378 Old 09-19-2011, 12:51 PM
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I personally own a LCD and a Plasma. Small 32 LCD for bedroom and larger 50 Plasma for living room.

When it came time to help my Dad choose a new TV I went with a DLP: the Mits 73C9. Why? Because he had a large room and had a similar sized screen conventional RPTV(now that was a giant, heavy tank!!!) I got it late in the model year for $1050.00 including shipping from an authorized dealer. You would not be able to touch that size with the other techs without paying 4 or 5 times as much at least. As to the issues, I also did my home work and purchased a 5 year warranty for $117 thanks to the AVS discount with Mack. So for under $1200, my Dad has a 73" HDTV with a great picture and a full five year warranty; if I buy 3 spare bulbs, the total will still be under $1500. For people looking for the biggest screen size bang for buck(73 or over), there is nothing in the non-projector realm even close.

Unfortunately, there is some truth to the dying tech thing, but that has more to do with the fact that the public has been brainwashed with marketing and most believe a TV has to be thin to be HDTV. Most of these people also believe that you can have huge room-filling sound with tiny Bose speakers.

Like another poster, my father has had several people ask him how much he paid for such a huge screen that looks awesome. When he tells them, they do not believe it at first since they paid two or three times as much for a much smaller screen. Again, most people do not do their homework or just listen to the "experts" at Best Buy who don't even let them know that these types of TVs exist. Too bad really, but I guess you do need a razor thin TV to complement your Bose Lifestyle system they just sold you.

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post #114 of 378 Old 09-19-2011, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnythan View Post

Ah, you're right, I forgot about that. Oh well.



You think I have some deep-rooted anti-DLP hatred because of what I posted in this thread?

Really?

Have you read my posts here? I don't hate DLP. I personally don't like it, for a few reasons, and I tried to voice those reasons here. You and others have taken any criticism of DLP, no matter how valid or factual, and read it as a vicious attack on your favorite technology.

You're taking this way, way too personally. I don't care about DLPs. I don't care who likes DLP. I don't hate anything.

Go close your eyes, take a few deep breaths, and reread my posts here with a clear, unbiased head.

By the way, DLP has indeed "fallen by the wayside." Despite your fervent, frequent protests about how incredibly inexpensive it is per inch of screen, none of the nation's largest TV dealers (Best Buy, Walmart, Target, Sam's, Sears) seem to carry any of the TVs in their stores.

What do you call a technology that used to be commonplace but has now been almost completely squeezed out of the market - down to a single manufacturer and virtually zero retail presence - besides "fallen by the wayside"?

Mabe because online shopping is the future? Walmart has the Mitsu dlp's on there site as do many others, its a tough time for all manufactures, some have gotten out the business all together. Good to see Mitsubishi still in the game and surviving ,as that what its about at the moment. I would have dreaded having to watch a plasma or lcd for my main display. So for now Dlp is still here and you must contend with the king of displays for now
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post #115 of 378 Old 09-19-2011, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

So for now Dlp is still here and you must contend with the king of displays for now

I "must contend"? I'm not fighting anything here, especially not a TV technology.
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post #116 of 378 Old 09-19-2011, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jonnythan View Post

By the way, DLP has indeed "fallen by the wayside." Despite your fervent, frequent protests about how incredibly inexpensive it is per inch of screen, none of the nation's largest TV dealers (Best Buy, Walmart, Target, Sam's, Sears) seem to carry any of the TVs in their stores.

I guess you really are an amateur A/V person. If you think the best A/V gear is found at Best Buy, Walmart, Targer, Sam's Club or Sears, then you need to go back to A/V Home Theater 101.

I would never buy any A/V gear at any of those place you mentioned, nor would any self-respecting A/V person. Even Best Buy is a total rip off and the workers there are 18 year old kids who don't know much, let alone on what gear is the best.
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post #117 of 378 Old 09-19-2011, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lbear View Post

I guess you really are an amateur A/V person. If you think the best A/V gear is found at Best Buy, Walmart, Targer, Sam's Club or Sears, then you need to go back to A/V Home Theater 101.

I would never buy any A/V gear at any of those place you mentioned, nor would any self-respecting A/V person. Even Best Buy is a total rip off and the workers there are 18 year old kids who don't know much, let alone on what gear is the best.

Are you listening to yourself? You're insulting someone who has calmly stated why he doesn't like DLP while accepting that other people have good, valid reasons for preferring it.

You are, over and over, saying that anyone who doesn't accept that DLP TVs are the absolute best choices for everyone in every situation.

You are a massive, massive, fanboy. Completely illogical and unreasonable. DLPs are not the best TVs for all people in all situations. Some people don't like plasmas for various valid reasons. Some people don't like front projection for various valid reasons. Some people don't like LCD for various valid reasons. Some people don't like DLP for various valid reasons.

Disliking product "x" doesn't mean you're a worthless idiot. Take a step back. You're not married to a TV technology, and your favorite TV technology doesn't actually care about you.
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post #118 of 378 Old 09-19-2011, 08:45 PM - Thread Starter
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What do you call a technology that used to be commonplace but has now been almost completely squeezed out of the market - down to a single manufacturer and virtually zero retail presence - besides "fallen by the wayside"?

Quixel Research shows that in the first quarter of 2010, RPTVs amounted to 5% of all big screen TV sales in the US. For Mitsubishi that means that almost 100% of those sales belongs to Mitsubishi, as it controls 100% of the market on DLPs.

You need to research more and stop listening to the guys at Best Buy. Mitsubishi announced that it will continue to develop DLPs for 2012 and beyond. They are even looking into the 3chip DLP versions.

Mitsubishi just came out with a 92" DLP for 2011 that retails for $5,500. What would a plasma or LCD cost in that size? The 85" plasma from Panasonic costs $15,500!

The only thing "fallen to the wayside" is your opinion, as it holds no relevance to this discussion. You are here simply to spread misinformation and rag on DLPs. There's the exit door, do as you originally stated you would...
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post #119 of 378 Old 09-19-2011, 08:49 PM
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Quixel Research shows that between in the first quarter of 2010, RPTVs amounted to 5% of all big screen TV sales in the US. For Mitsubishi that means that almost 100% of those sales belongs to Mitsubishi, as it controls 100% of the market on DLPs.

You need to research more and stop listening to the guys at Best Buy. Mitsubishi announced that it will continue to develop DLPs for 2012 and beyond. They are even looking into the 3chip DLP versions.

Mitsubishi just came out with a 92" DLP for 2011 that retails for $5,500. What would a plasma or LCD cost in that size? The 85" plasma from Panasonic costs $15,500!

The only thing "fallen to the wayside" is your opinion, as it holds no relevance to this discussion. You are here simply to spread misinformation and rag on DLPs. There's the exit door...

5 years ago, DLP had over ten times that marketshare.

So, yeah, a 90% market share drop in 5 years is "falling by the wayside."
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post #120 of 378 Old 09-19-2011, 08:56 PM
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What's the catch?

Mitsubishi sells the 73" LED - DLP for $1,350. A similar version LCD sells for $3,000. How much of a difference can there be between the two technologies?

This is a post from... two months ago.

Looks like you've been a big DLP expert since you bought one a month ago...

I know you're excited about your big new TV, but you're being more than a little crazy about it. You've gone off the deep end and left rationality behind, firmly embedding yourself in fanboyism.

Seriously, take a step back and try to be a little more level-headed.
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