Pioneer Elite PRO-620HD stopped working - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 09-20-2012, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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We have a PRO-620HD that worked flawlessly for ten years. Then a few weeks ago we were watching it and heard a "click" and the screen went black. The red standby light was the only thing lit. We turned off the set at the power button in front and waited a few minutes then turned it back on. The green ON light lit, there was a click then the green light went off and the red standby light on.

Removing the rear cover we noticed fuses FU202 and FU204 were blown. We replaced the two STK932-110 ICs with Sanyo STK932-180 and resoldered the entire power supply board (PS). We tried turning the set on and it was the same as before - green ON light, a click, then red standby. The two fuses were not blown this time. Several more attempts saw no changes.

The D915 LED was lit on the PS and the D923 LED was lit on the convergence amp assembly (CAA), indicating a problem with the CAA. Thinking there may be more problems than just the ICs, we ordered a new CAA from Pioneer. We installed that and once again tried to get the set to work. It still didn't. Green ON, click, red standby. frown.gif

There was one nagging issue that haunts us - when disconnecting the old CAA, a screw was left in the metal ring holder and that was laid over the video board to get the wires out of the way. When reconnecting the new CAA that screw dropped into the video board. eek.gif It seemed to vanish! In order to find it, we had to remove the entire video rack and that required the disconnection of several connectors. After the missing screw "reappeared" we put everything back together and plugged in all the connectors. But there was one connector on the video assembly that had no cable to plug into it. In the service manual there is an arrow from it that points to "To AUTO COVER". If there is a cable that is supposed to be connected to this, it has disappeared. We must have looked for 20-30 minutes for it! So, for the moment, this connector has no cables connected to it.

So after spending hours resoldering the PS, time and money on replacing the ICs and then spending another $315 on a new CAA, we are right where we were when the set turned itself off three weeks ago.

BTW, the set was disconnected from 120v power and remained so until after the ICs were replaced. When they didn't work, the set was unplugged again. After the new CAA didn't work, we once again unplugged the set. So if it has to remain plugged in for any length of time, this has not been happening.
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post #2 of 14 Old 09-20-2012, 05:18 PM
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I feel your pain man. My SD-643HD5 just went a few weeks ago. Had the "authorized pioneer service people out" and while they did replace the convergence IC's nothing changed.
I still have no picture or sound from the unit.

I just replaced the Deflection Assembly with a new one from Pioneer myself and while it did solve another issue (Diagnostic LED light) I still have no picture.

As to your issue if you have the Service Manual it should show where the wires go no? There are connections on one of my boards (the Video one I think) that don't have any cables to them so it's possible
that you could have a connector on the board with no matching cable.

When you say the set goes into "Standby" are any of the diagnostic LED's lit on the boards at the bottom of the set?

I ask because these TV's have a built-in overload protection on some circuits. When the set detects a issue it will "short" the 120v power turning the set off. This usually results in one of the LED's lighting indicating which component is at fault.

When checking the fuses are you doing a "continuity check" using a DVM or just eye balling them? The former is preferred method for any type of fuse.

Re-check your connections and look for any shorting that might have occurred when you moved stuff around.
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post #3 of 14 Old 09-20-2012, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
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The diagnostic LEDs are on the board assemblies, which you can only see by removing the rear cover. In the troubleshooting in the service manual it asks if the LED light is ONLY on at the power supply then it tells you what steps to follow. If the LED is lit on the PS and another board (on ours it's the convergence amp assy LED that's also lit) then it directs you to those steps.

According to the service manual, when the convergence amp assembly LED is the one also lit, the cause is "V. deflection stopping". Then it lists 7 items to check, 4 of them are related to connector plugs not being plugged in. Those we've all checked and double checked.

The next item is "Abnormality in the V. BLK2 waveform..." between two points and says probable defective part is an IC in the sub video assy ($480 new).

Next is the same as above but between two different points and says probable defective part is an IC in the deflection service assy ($280 new).

And the last one, "no waveform is output" between two other points and the probable defective part are parts that are on the convergence amp assembly, which shouldn't be an issue with the new CAA we just installed.

So we would need something to test the V. BLK2 waveform on two of the assemblies, which we don't have.

Unless someone here has something else to look for, we have two choices, pay a tech to fix it or roll it out to the end of the driveway and buy something to replace it. I'm not sure which would be better in the long run. From what I've read, the authorized Pioneer techs just replace boards. And they usually include the PS which runs $280 if I buy it direct from Pioneer.

BTW, yes, I did check the fuses with a continuity tester. And that connector without any wires going to it, I think it must have been that way before. Even opening the front I saw no hanging connector looking to be plugged in.
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post #4 of 14 Old 09-20-2012, 08:50 PM
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I have a A.A.S from the state university in Electrical Engineering Tech and a B.S. in Telecommunications Engineering and I knew more about my set than the so called authorized service technician.
He showed up with the same stuff I have. A DVM, some hand tools and a soldering gun. Big deal. Charged me for a service call ($100.00) and couldn't even find the problem and left without a clue.

They wanted to come back to solder two IC's on the Deflection Board for another $345.00 (if the solution worked) or another $100.00 if it didn't. I told them to skip it and did the board myself.

My point is unless you have a reference for someone don't put your hopes in these guys. Since Pioneer is out of the TV game there isn't a support line they can call for assistance, which I'm told was the primary way they got/get things fixed.

Funny, I spent thousands of dollars learning how to troubleshoot circuits and no one does it anymore. Least not in your home. If you can bring the set in it may be another story.

I'm well familiar with both the internals of the TV and the Service manuals. Been looking at both for over a two weeks solid now trying to figure out my problem. I think I'm getting close though.

One really needs an Oscilloscope and a DVM to troubleshoot circuits. That's what the manual is referencing when they state to check specific points in the circuits. No other way around it.

There are other places on the Internet you can try for help. FixYa.com has a lot of TV repair related issues and solutions posted, there's also justanswer.com. They have people there who are "experts" usually with years of experience in their field.

I know it's fustrating, believe me I know, but unless your willing to acquire the tools and continuing doing the circuit testing yourself, you'll either have to keep replacing boards or pay the tech and hope they can fix it for the money you spend.

Look at what it would cost you to get something new comparable to what you had now and go from there.
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post #5 of 14 Old 09-21-2012, 06:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you! What you say makes lots of sense. This helps in putting my mind at ease letting go of that "but this TV was SO expensive when we bought it I just hate to throw it away!" thought that keeps rolling around in my mind.

Yesterday, after I wrote my reply here, I started looking at the realities of the whole Pioneer Elite package we bought back then. We had read so many great reviews we became convinced this was the best home system out there and spent a small fortune for the TV, receiver, DVD player and CD player.

A few years later we inserted a DVD of a movie we had just bought. Nothing happened. We tried another DVD and it worked fine. Some research later and we find this $2,000.00 machine has an inherent flaw, it didn't play certain formats. If I remember right, Pioneer knew about this and was sued and owners could take in their unit and have it repaired for free. We did but it didn't fix the problem. We finally gave up and just resigned ourselves to the fact this thing wouldn't play certain DVDs.

About a month before the TV went out, the 301 disc, $600.00 CD player (that we hardly ever used because it was such a pain to find anything on it) just stopped working. The lights go on but nothing works.

Then there's the receiver, that originally listed for $2,500.00. Lately it has been acting up. If you have the mute on when you turn it off, there is no sound when you turn it back on. You have to turn it on, un-mute it (which still produces no sound) then turn it off, wait for a bit, then turn it back on. I'm waiting for it to die soon too.

All total, this system would have cost over $12,000 back in 2002 and if you paid MSRP. We paid about $7,000. That's still a LOT of money! And then to consider Pioneer KNEW about many of the problems their products had and still sold it and charged what they did... Well, I've completely lost faith in them. I'll never buy another Pioneer product again.

Back in 1970 I bought a stereo system than included a Sansui receiver, Dual turntable and EPI speakers. Everything still works fine but the tuner part of the receiver. It went out a few years ago. In 1985 I bought a Sylvania Superset 19" TV. It worked beautifully for over 23 years and, until we bought the Pioneer, it was our only TV, so it got a lot of use. Other electronics we bought before the Pioneer system are also still working. I guess I expected the same kind of performance from Pioneer.

I think what we'll do is play around with the set, replacing bit parts, doing some resoldering but no more major purchases to fix this. I'm going to see if Pioneer will take their board back. That would be nice to get a refund. We could put it towards another TV. The Sony we have leaves a huge gaping hole in the entertainment center I custom built for the 620HD.

BTW, we've researched those sites you mentioned (and a bunch others) and all the experts say to replace the convergence ICs, resolder the boards and if that doesn't work, "You have another problem" which I translate as "This could go on forever and cost an arm and a leg to fix".

Thanks again for your input. It's helped a lot.
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post #6 of 14 Old 09-21-2012, 06:50 AM - Thread Starter
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I just checked the Pioneer site for returning the CAA. I can return it but they charge a 20% restocking charge. $56 to restock this circuit board! They must pay their people well.
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post #7 of 14 Old 09-21-2012, 05:35 PM
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Your Welcome.

If misery loves company your not alone in this as you can tell.

Yeah I was going to say they will take it back with a restocking fee, but hey it's better than having to eat the whole thing.
As a aside do not mention you installed/used the board if/when you go to return it.

I think I read on their site the part cannot be used although when I spoke with Customer Service prior to ordering my Deflection Board and inquired about returning it "if I didn't need it" (hint hint) the
lady didn't mention nothing about it.

I too brought into the whole Pioneer Elite products except for the TV. So far the DVD Player and the Cassette Deck still work.

While looking for a solution to my issue I came across another board where there was a post about Pioneer Elite RPTV's. Seems there was a class action suit out of California brought by owners of those sets in 2007.

Here's the link -->> http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3424/312527962NoticeandPendency.pdf

Maybe it applies to you and you can get your set fixed for free.

While I can get my set to turn on I'm still stuck w/no Video or Audio which was the original issue. There are plenty of qualified people out there who can fix these things but at what cost?
Since Pioneer is out of the TV game there isn't any source for technical support. So one either replaces Boards or the components therein till they get it fixed. That can get pricey.

A co-worker had issues w/his old Sony RPTV and he called the same repair service I did. Difference is Sony is still in the TV game so they were able to fix his set with calls to Sony.

I was prepared to spend a few hundred on getting my set repaired but not $1,000 or more. Which would be the cost if I brought all the Electronic Diagnostic Tools required to repair the set myself or keep paying the repair people to, well keep guessing.

Sometimes you just gotta let go.

If it helps there's been a lot of posts on the Internet over the last year or so with RPTV's finally giving up the ghost. I've had mine since 2002 so 10 years of perfect use isn't to shabby. Probably won't get near that with today's made in China stuff.

If your going to continue to play with it.

Use the Service Manual and focus on the the "over load protection circuits". That's what shuts the system down. You again can use the Manual to get the part numbers for Diodes, IC's etc and replace them. Most are still available and are very cheap.
Since you've done some soldering already. Also use a multimeter and check the resistors, replace as needed.

Good Luck.

I'll post back if I find/think of anything else.
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post #8 of 14 Old 09-21-2012, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Sometimes it's better not to be miserable, even if you have no company. tongue.gif

When I called for the return auth. the lady asked if it was used. I had a feeling if I said I had installed it I wouldn't get a refund so I said I hadn't. They are giving me back $260 of the $315 I paid but that included $16 in shipping. So their restocking is less than the 20% listed on the website. I'm not complaining though.

I ordered all the parts the service manual said could be causing whatever might be wrong, thinking if I replaced all of them maybe the thing might work. That totaled $36, including a $20 solder sucker. But after removing the boards I saw one of the ICs that I ordered is one of those really small square things that look like nano robots installed it. Even under magnification, I can see no way I can replace it. There are about 80 points on the four sides that have solder joints about the size of a pin point.

We're now looking at new sets. That speaks to the faith I have we can get this thing fixed.
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post #9 of 14 Old 09-22-2012, 02:45 PM
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Way to go. I pull the tray on my set for the umptenth time today and removed the Power Assembly Board to check the components and do some soldering.

I have to agree with you on the point about some of the contacts being really close together. Check your yellow pages, usually there are shops that repair Circuit Boards exclusively, they'll get those soldered.

I used this solder sucker from Radio shack and it works great. -->>http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062731

When you think about it one can't really blame Pioneer for not taking back used items. They have no way to test it to ensure they can resell it again. Most other parts places have the same policy.

I'm starting to lose faith in my set working again as well. It's sad though because the issues don't seem to be so dire as to warrant throwing the set away.

Seems the determining factor for repair is just how difficult it is to figure out what's wrong. Troubleshooting circuit boards at the component level is long tedious work.
Work that it seems few employers are willing to pay anyone to do any more.

Best of luck and let me know what you decided on for a new set.
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post #10 of 14 Old 09-23-2012, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I never even thought circuit board shops existed. I'll have to check that out. As for Pioneer's policy, I don't blame them for not taking back anything that's been powered up but that restocking charge removes any guilt I might have had for telling them I didn't use it. That and the fact they make so difficult and expensive to repair their sets, ones that they sold knowing they had problems.

I know what you mean about giving up on the TV. Ours really had a great picture and worked flawlessly for 10 years then POOF! It died. It's like going through the five stages of grief. I was completely in denial that we couldn't get it working again. Then I was angry it died. Then I was bargaining, "If we can just get it working for another year or two...". Then came the depression. I think I'm still there.

But today I was looking at the "black box" that sits in our family room. It really is a handsome thing. It seems a crime to just roll it out to the trash.

If we bought another TV it would probably be of considerably less depth than what we have and we'd need something to sit it on. The entertainment center is 24" deep. And that puts the front of the screen at a perfect viewing distance. So I looked at the black box and imagined saving the bottom of it as a platform for a new TV. I could cut it to a height that would allow the new TV to be in the same place as the old screen. (Depression fading...)

I do a lot of woodworking. I was seeing the black laminate bottom with a really nice walnut or mahogany top upon which the new TV would sit. The black box already has a very nice set of wheels and an opening in front, that's covered by speaker screen, where I could place the sub-woofer. I'd have to gut all the electronics and modify the interior framework a bit but it's very doable.

I saw a 60" LG plasma for about a grand that fit the opening perfectly. Six reviewers all gave it 5 stars. And it's cheap. We don't need or want 3D and all the other bells and whistles.

I think it's time to head to Abt. biggrin.gif
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post #11 of 14 Old 09-23-2012, 02:50 PM
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Most every place had a place that works on Circuit or PCB Boards. Electronics have been engrained into our society for so long now most every machine has circuits in it.
Often those machines will cost 10's or 100's of thousands of dollars to replace. Sometimes because they are no longer in production or the company is defunct.
Or because replacing that one machine would involve replacing another thing that it's connected to or runs.

That's where those repair shops come in. You would be ahead of the game since you have the schematics to give them.
They're equipped to properly "bench test" a board and find the faults. Then do the replacement of individual components where required.

Even if there isn't one in your town I'm sure there's one somewhere nearby.

I'm on a mission w/my set. Well mostly w/getting some value out my education. That is I'm more interested in fixing it for the sake of learning what went wrong which I should be able to do.

Worst comes to worst I'll replace it, sure. But now things have gotten personal. I have another TV in the bedroom to watch.

Looks like you have plans for the cabinet from the Pioneer, yes those Pro set's didn't use cheap press/particle board.
When looking at another set I'm sure you've made sure it will work with you existing HT setup.

I don't have anything HDMI yet so any new set I get will have to have a HD Component input.
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post #12 of 14 Old 09-23-2012, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, we took the easy route. We bought a new TV. The idea we never knew when the money pit would be full enough to fix the TV was nagging on us. Even with the returns we had probably spent $300-400 and gone nowhere. That's easy to do when you're in denial.

Today our Bears were playing and even though they are maybe an 8-8 team this year, we're die-hard fans and if we were going to watch them we'd have to watch them in the bedroom. It felt weird to watch the Bears in bed at noon on a Sunday. Also today was the FedEx Cup (golf) final round we wanted to see. And that black abyss was becoming hauntingly eerie, especially on football Sunday.

So we went out this morning to "look" at TVs. I don't think either of us was prepared for the visual overload. Abt is a BIG store. And once we got into the TV section, the place was packed. Thankfully I had done some homework. In our price range the Panasonic ($1297) was getting the best reviews from both consumers and editors. LG and Samsung had $999 60" plasmas but Abt only carried Samsung in plasma.

I had resigned myself to pay the $1000-1300 for the lower end versions on 60" plasmas. Once we zeroed in on the where the 60" plasmas were, it was "Find the 7 differences" game. Eyes flashing back and forth between TV looking to see which one had the better picture. Dizzying!

In the end we bought a Panasonic TC-P60ST50 ($1537). The "ST" is their middle of the road model. The sales guy told us he didn't see any difference between the top model and the ST outside of the $800 difference.eek.gif We didn't either. But there was a slight difference between the UT series and the ST, besides the $300 price difference.

But what was most interesting was what we heard during the conversation about life of the product and reliability. "TVs aren't made like they used to be. Most TVs today are good for 8-10 years. Then you come back and buy another. The manufacturers aren't interested in building a product that will last like they used to be." Something I was already coming to believe. Now I was hearing it from another.

We got the TV set up in time to see the last few minutes of the Bears game. Then we watched the rest of the FedEx Cup. And in that time we had said several times, "I think this has a better picture." cool.gif
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post #13 of 14 Old 09-26-2012, 02:31 PM
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Well I got my set working again. I traced the issue to the Video IP board but couldn't identify the component without a Oscilloscope.

Since Pioneer no longer sells the part number I needed I took a chance on a used one from a Electronics Recycler in Texas.

$89.00 plus shipping, less than a service call. New, if Pioneer would've has it would have set me back a few hundred.

Now that I again have video and audio signals in the set I can diagnose the screen issue. I'm hoping I just need to run through the setup indicated in the Service Manual.

That or Pioneer sold me a defective board and I'll send it back.
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post #14 of 14 Old 09-27-2012, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Way to go! It's nice to know someone had some success.

From what I saw in our service manual, there's a lot of steps you have to take after you replace parts. My head was spinning reading it. I hope yours is not as intensive.

We're happy with the new TV. It really blows away the old one but I shouldn't be surprised. Technology races so fast and ten years is an eternity in electronics. When we have time we'll cut the old TV box down and use the bottom for a stand. I'll bet people coming over won't even notice we have a new TV, until we turn it on. But the dimensions and appearance of the new TV are very close to that of the old one, less the bottom. And since it sits back inside the entertainment center, you won't see the sides, unless you really look. It will be interesting to see who notices.

Good luck getting your set working again!
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