Dlp Cleaning and Ndf? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 07-23-2013, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm considering a dlp but i'd like to know how difficult it is to clean the lenses/light path?

I would also like to know how difficult it is to place a neutral density filter in the light path.
I would like to get black levels down to around the area of the better Samsung plasmas or the average Panasonic Plasmas from a couple years ago (St30 before the rise in mll for example) and I don't need a lot of light output.

I'm trying to avoid display tech that exhibits crescents/halos as well, although that may be inherent to all uncoated projection tech from what i've read.
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post #2 of 17 Old 07-23-2013, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik James View Post

I'm considering a dlp but i'd like to know how difficult it is to clean the lenses/light path?

I would also like to know how difficult it is to place a neutral density filter in the light path.
I would like to get black levels down to around the area of the better Samsung plasmas or the average Panasonic Plasmas from a couple years ago (St30 before the rise in mll for example) and I don't need a lot of light output.

I'm trying to avoid display tech that exhibits crescents/halos as well, although that may be inherent to all uncoated projection tech from what i've read.

It's fairly easy to clean the light engine - link from Videobruce:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1148792/mitsubishi-2007-and-possibility-06-08-lens-cleaning-procedure-no-more-halos

But, once you get it out, I don't think it will be easy to put a filter on the lens. DLP will not give you the black levels you're looking for, if comparing those levels to a plasma panel - even if you could get the filter mounted on the lens assembly.

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post #3 of 17 Old 07-23-2013, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by myoda View Post

It's fairly easy to clean the light engine - link from Videobruce:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1148792/mitsubishi-2007-and-possibility-06-08-lens-cleaning-procedure-no-more-halos

But, once you get it out, I don't think it will be easy to put a filter on the lens. DLP will not give you the black levels you're looking for, if comparing those levels to a plasma panel - even if you could get the filter mounted on the lens assembly.


I'll pass tongue.gif
I was just about to clean the deeper lenses of my crt rear pro before it died, and it was looking a lot simpler than the light path of a Dlp.
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post #4 of 17 Old 07-23-2013, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik James View Post

I'll pass tongue.gif
I was just about to clean the deeper lenses of my crt rear pro before it died, and it was looking a lot simpler than the light path of a Dlp.

If you have an 11 year old Hitachi 51UWX20B , and you're having problems with it, recycle it. It's not worth the effort to try to fix it.



I had a 51 inch Sony rear projection television from 2001 that had burn in on one tube - and had considered getting the tube replaced, until I found out that (in 2006) that Sony rebuilds, and does not replace tubes. $100 for the initial service call, $400 for the rebuild fee, another $100 to put the tube back in after the rebuild. I put the $600 towards a new television, a Mitsubishi WD-Y65 DLP. Six years later, I sold that set, and today I'm enjoying a 70 inch LED. No worries about cleaning mirrors, burn in, convergence issues, or changing lamps. Think about biting the bullet and dispose the Hitachi in a responsible manner. Put it on Craigslist. Buy something nice for yourself.
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post #5 of 17 Old 07-24-2013, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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The majority of Led lcd's aren't very cost effective for the intended use.
Unless they have suddenly started using full local dimming back lights on every led set since I last looked into them (doubtful).
Plasma's have the picture quality but they draw quite a bit of power and it's not worth it to use one as a computer monitor.

The next large amount of money I spend will be for an Lcos or Dlp projector, for now i'll probably just pick up the largest direct view crt I can find (38-40").
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post #6 of 17 Old 07-24-2013, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik James View Post

The majority of Led lcd's aren't very cost effective for the intended use.
Unless they have suddenly started using full local dimming back lights on every led set since I last looked into them (doubtful).
Plasma's have the picture quality but they draw quite a bit of power and it's not worth it to use one as a computer monitor.

The next large amount of money I spend will be for an Lcos or Dlp projector, for now i'll probably just pick up the largest direct view crt I can find (38-40").

Just to counter - higher end LED televisions do use local dimming, the Elite from Sharp being one.

Plasma televisions, once calibrated, use much less power today than first gen plasmas - and not that much more juice that a comparably sized LED/LCD.

I use my television more for a monitor than I do for watching television, and the output and sharpness is much better than it was on my previous DLP display.

Good luck finding a direct view CRT - those things are dinosaurs, and the largest set you might be able to find is a 40 inch Sony KV-40XBR800. It's over 300 pounds. Found one on ebay for you - $2500.00.

http://www.ebay.com/ctg/Sony-FD-Trinitron-WEGA-KV-40XBR800-40-720p-HD-CRT-Television-/48197865

Some used units available at Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/SONY-KV-40XBR800-Trinitron-Wega-Color/dp/B0000789GB

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 75

We had a discussion this past weekend about picture quality during my part time gig at a TV station here in Pittsburgh. I was chatting with one of our camera guys, and we agree that the best quality picture is still on a CRT. We still use two Sony professional 24 inch displays to judge color before sending a shot to air. Each display, when they were new cost $14000. See below. Good luck in your quest.

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post #7 of 17 Old 07-24-2013, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Yup, the Sharp Elite, Xbr Hx950, Xbr Hx929, Xbr Hx909. I believe the Samsung B8500 was one of the earlier ones.
Still not very cost effective though and their was also blooming artifacts on the cheaper local dimming sets.

If I absolutely had to have a sharp computer monitor that did well in daylight and a dark room, I suppose I would have to go for an lcd.
However it's more of a media pc and the room is light controlled.

There are quite a few 34" crt sets for sale around my area, anything much larger might be tricky to find.
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post #8 of 17 Old 07-24-2013, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Mik James View Post

Yup, the Sharp Elite, Xbr Hx950, Xbr Hx929, Xbr Hx909. I believe the Samsung B8500 was one of the earlier ones.
Still not very cost effective though and their was also blooming artifacts on the cheaper local dimming sets.

If I absolutely had to have a sharp computer monitor that did well in daylight and a dark room, I suppose I would have to go for an lcd.
However it's more of a media pc and the room is light controlled.

There are quite a few 34" crt sets for sale around my area, anything much larger might be tricky to find.

Can you define a "media pc"?
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post #9 of 17 Old 07-24-2013, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
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post #10 of 17 Old 07-24-2013, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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So why would it be difficult to get an ndf filter in front of the outer lens? Other than finding a way to secure it why would it be any more difficult than putting one into an lcos display?

Also it looks like the foggy lens might be limited to the Mitsubishi's? Otherwise it seems like the optical path is pretty well sealed off compared to the lens stacks of crt's.
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post #11 of 17 Old 07-25-2013, 04:54 AM
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post #12 of 17 Old 07-25-2013, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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The lamp runs at a fixed light level right?
There are no back light settings to adjust from what i've heard.
I would like to see for myself whether or not black levels will be acceptable, since it is quite subjective.
Owners of sxrds thought it was worth the effort, why is dlp different?
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post #13 of 17 Old 07-25-2013, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik James View Post

The lamp runs at a fixed light level right?
There are no back light settings to adjust from what i've heard.
I would like to see for myself whether or not black levels will be acceptable, since it is quite subjective.
Owners of sxrds thought it was worth the effort, why is dlp different?

If you are looking to achieve the same black levels on a DLP, as you do on a plasma, that will not happen, no matter what you apply to the lens. You're comparing a display device with a lamp that projects an image to a series of mirrors, to a plasma panel, where each pixel has its own light source. SXRD is different technology than DLP, but it still uses mirrors to get the image to the screen. Have at it if you can find a usable device to muck with.
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post #14 of 17 Old 07-25-2013, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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People are dropping dlp's for nearly the same price as Crt's.
What plasma are we talking about?
Plasma mll can be all over the place depending on the age and company, the pixels need to maintain some level of charge (light) to avoid misfires.
I'm not looking for Kuro, or Panasonic 2012 and 2013 black levels. From what i've read Dlp's can be quite capable of good black levels.
If I could get the mll down to the level of the better lcds (non local dimming) or the plasmas from a few years back (excluding Kuro) i'd be happy with that.
Contrast doesn't need to be nearly as high though.
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post #15 of 17 Old 07-25-2013, 12:25 PM
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Not gonna happen - best you'll get is a dark grey and light bleed from a DLP based rear pro.
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post #16 of 17 Old 07-29-2013, 01:38 PM
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A Laservue will get you what you're looking for. I remember reading last year that Chad B. tested the mll on one and it did quite well

"The wise understand by themselves; fools follow the reports of others"-Tibetan Proverb
 
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post #17 of 17 Old 07-30-2013, 06:37 AM
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Re; the A94 Laservue
Quote:
On/Off contrast black level is .003 fL, down from .008 on the 2010 A91.
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/hdtv-video-displays-processors/52932-mitsubishi-l75-a94-laservue.html

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