Which brand most reliable? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 26 Old 08-21-2002, 10:41 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Christopher Calder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: USA
Posts: 448
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Is there any RPTV brand that is more reliable than the others? I am on my second Toshiba and both have had problems. Is Mitsubishi, JVC, Hitachi, or Sony better in terms of long term reliability?

CC
Christopher Calder is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 Old 08-22-2002, 06:44 AM
Senior Member
 
David Meek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 432
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
CC, first place I'd check for reliability is Consumer Reports. They may not be up to speed on features, PQ and such, but reliability is there raison d' etre (sic?).
David Meek is offline  
post #3 of 26 Old 08-27-2002, 10:29 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 5,790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
My Dealer (also a repair shop) told me hands down Mitsubishi is (was) the most reliable. They are a Pioneer Elite dealer and showed me some Elites waiting for repair. The only Mits they had at the time he told be was about 10 years old! This helped me decide on Mits after my fiasco with the Panasonic PT56WXF95.
Marc Alexander is offline  
post #4 of 26 Old 08-27-2002, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Christopher Calder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: USA
Posts: 448
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by Marc Alexander
My Dealer (also a repair shop) told me hands down Mitsubishi is (was) the most reliable. They are a Pioneer Elite dealer and showed me some Elites waiting for repair. The only Mits they had at the time he told be was about 10 years old! This helped me decide on Mits after my fiasco with the Panasonic PT56WXF95.
Thanks for the tip.

My big screen repair man just told me the same thing. Mitsubishi made the Zero fighter aircraft during WWII. Now they make reliable giant size televisions. Kinda funny.

CC
Christopher Calder is offline  
post #5 of 26 Old 08-28-2002, 08:10 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,761
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 816
Consumer reports did not rate Mitsubishi #1

Hitachi was rate #1 for reliability by consumer reports in the march HDTV big screen issue.

It does not really matter, cause you could by the least reliable tv set, and it could last you 20 years, or buy the most reliable and it dies after six months.

You never know with RPTV's- It's like gambling

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #6 of 26 Old 08-28-2002, 09:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 5,790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by Mfusick
Consumer reports did not rate Mitsubishi #1

Hitachi was rate #1 for reliability by consumer reports in the march HDTV big screen issue.

It does not really matter, cause you could by the least reliable tv set, and it could last you 20 years, or buy the most reliable and it dies after six months.

You never know with RPTV's- It's like gambling
Maybe I'm in the minority...but I hardly ever agree with consumer reports' reports. Allthough I'm sure their reliability reports are based on actually statistics from somewhere.

I disagree that it does not matter. Reliability and quality should always be a concern when investing a large sum of money. Although you are correct that you still have a chance of failure with the most reliable, odds are not in favor of that. Unless you believe in blind luck (or bad luck) and not the science of probabilities.
Marc Alexander is offline  
post #7 of 26 Old 08-28-2002, 10:12 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,761
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 816
Ya- But you never know. The #1 rated tv still has some that are defective, and the lowest rated ones probably have a few that seem to live forever without any apparent problems.

I tend to agree that Consumer reports might not focus on the big issues us tweakers might have, but they do give atleast some guidance for normal people into what is ok, and whats not.

Thier reliability ratings are based on 20,000 customer surveys they claim. Seems pretty reliable to me compared to speculation, or suggestion from a single repair tech.

I am not saying Mits are not reliable. Just the repair guys might have a different spin on it, cause I know the way Mits builds thier sets, Things can be easily replaced by techs. Techs like Mits cause repairs go smooth most times, where on other sets their a bit more cryptic and can go soar easily if the tech is not qualified or inexperienced.

Never take single persons word on anything. If ten people all tell you the same exact thing, then I would remove a bit of the skepticism.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #8 of 26 Old 08-28-2002, 01:01 PM
Senior Member
 
theirishgonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: third star to the right and strait on till morning
Posts: 346
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
mits also have the bigest bang for your buck you can get a hi def ws 65 inch for less than 3k and you can get there hi end 65 with is 10k plus the mit are also 2 piece units so you can put them in more places than others

if you are lucky enough to be irish you are lucky enough
theirishgonzo is offline  
post #9 of 26 Old 08-28-2002, 02:05 PM
Senior Member
 
Advance The Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Fleming Island, FL
Posts: 272
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by theirishgonzo
mits also have the bigest bang for your buck you can get a hi def ws 65 inch for less than 3k and you can get there hi end 65 with is 10k plus the mit are also 2 piece units so you can put them in more places than others
huh?

What Mits is $10,000?
Advance The Man is offline  
post #10 of 26 Old 08-28-2002, 02:38 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Kipp Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,785
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally posted by Marc Alexander


Maybe I'm in the minority...but I hardly ever agree with consumer reports' reports. Allthough I'm sure their reliability reports are based on actually statistics from somewhere.

I disagree that it does not matter. Reliability and quality should always be a concern when investing a large sum of money. Although you are correct that you still have a chance of failure with the most reliable, odds are not in favor of that. Unless you believe in blind luck (or bad luck) and not the science of probabilities.
You are right, CR testers get free trips by the manufacturers to come test their products. Ever wonder why European and Asian cars get such high marks? The testers get free all expense paid trips to Europe and Asia. When testing American cars, they get a trip to Detroit. What would you like better?:rolleyes:

Kipp
Are you boozen & cruisin the AVS? Join us here --->
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
good times!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Kipp Jones is offline  
post #11 of 26 Old 08-28-2002, 04:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Roto's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,286
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have a 50" Hitachi that is about 12 years old. There's a definite degradation in picture quality after all this time, and I've thought about replacing it but realistically it's not anything I can't tolerate. The biggest problem is that PIP quit working a few years back, but I don't really use that feature anyway.

It takes about 5 minutes from the time you turn it on until the picture reaches normal brightness, not really a big deal to me. Also a hard one to explain without seeing it, whenever there is a bright spot on the picture like a lamp or white lettering there is a horizontal dim streak across the width of the screen. Mostly you only see it during credits, so I live with it. I figure the longer I hold out, the better the replacement set will be.

Anyway, the set's been pretty reliable I'd say.I wouldn't hesitate to replace it with another Hitachi if I were to get another RPTV.

-Rob
Roto is offline  
post #12 of 26 Old 08-28-2002, 04:58 PM
Senior Member
 
Les H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Pleasanton, CA USA
Posts: 456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
kippjones:

What is your source for the statement the CR testers get free trips to the auto factories to test autos?

From what CR says, they buy the cars anonymously from local dealers, test them at their New York facility, and then sell the cars.

Les
Les H is offline  
post #13 of 26 Old 08-28-2002, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Christopher Calder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: USA
Posts: 448
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by Roto
I have a 50" Hitachi that is about 12 years old. I wouldn't't hesitate to replace it with another Hitachi if I were to get another RPTV.
12 years! Wow!

My experience with Toshiba is that they only last two years. The convergence chips burn out and the cost of replacement is about as high as a new set. Luckily I always get a 5 year in-home warranty, so I got my second Toshiba free and maybe will get a third set free as well. It is often cheaper for them to buy you a new set than fix the old one. The Toshiba remotes go bad even quicker. Toshibas have a poor design or sloppy manufacturing, I don't know which.

JVC has a nice looking 48" wide screen HDTV-ready set out at a low price. I wonder if anyone out there has an opinion on JVC reliability.

CC
Christopher Calder is offline  
post #14 of 26 Old 08-29-2002, 09:01 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,761
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 816
Quote:
Originally posted by Les H
kippjones:

What is your source for the statement the CR testers get free trips to the auto factories to test autos?

From what CR says, they buy the cars anonymously from local dealers, test them at their New York facility, and then sell the cars.

Les
I read the exact same things.

They do claim to buy the cars at sticker price, with minimal haggling so represent how much and adverarage person would pay.

I never heard such things about "Free Trips"

I know Consumer Reports might not be so "Electonic Literate" and know whats going on like the professional Audio/Video publications, but they do remain honest and informative.

Consumer reports is not the place to see how well a particual RPTV will ISF calibrate too, But for value and features they usually get things straight.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #15 of 26 Old 08-29-2002, 06:55 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Kipp Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,785
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally posted by Les H
kippjones:

What is your source for the statement the CR testers get free trips to the auto factories to test autos?

From what CR says, they buy the cars anonymously from local dealers, test them at their New York facility, and then sell the cars.

Les
I watched a show like 20/20. I am not sure which show it was. It aired a few weeks ago and they did a special report on this. I could not beleive it at first. They showed the hotels and golf expenses paid for by the car companies. I felt so betrayed. You can't trust anyone.

Kipp
Are you boozen & cruisin the AVS? Join us here --->
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
good times!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Kipp Jones is offline  
post #16 of 26 Old 08-29-2002, 07:03 PM
Senior Member
 
Les H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Pleasanton, CA USA
Posts: 456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Kippjones:

But are you sure this referred to Consumer Reports specifically?

I know this happens with the commercial car magazines. Absolutely.

But I think Consumer Reports is different. They don't accept ads from anyone, and don't let anyone use their ratings as endorsements.

Les
Les H is offline  
post #17 of 26 Old 08-30-2002, 12:20 AM
Senior Member
 
tammes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 234
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
VERY TRUE LES !!!!!
Consumer Reports will sue if there name is used for
product endorsements. I tend to believe them, but
there are other sources you can use to at least get
an idea about a product's reliability. Epinions and
AudioReivew are a couple of sites to check on Audio/
Video gear. Check out other car sites and see why
Honda and Toyota are still the standard bearers for
reliability. Check out Popular Mechanics survey and
see why over 80% of Honda Civics and Toyota Corolla's
don't have defects when bought..
tammes is offline  
post #18 of 26 Old 08-30-2002, 08:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 5,790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by kippjones


You are right, CR testers get free trips by the manufacturers to come test their products. Ever wonder why European and Asian cars get such high marks? The testers get free all expense paid trips to Europe and Asia. When testing American cars, they get a trip to Detroit. What would you like better?:rolleyes:
I'm sorry...but there is a reason why European and Asian cars get such high marks...THEY'RE BETTER! American cars are improving but there is no comparison in my mind!
Marc Alexander is offline  
post #19 of 26 Old 08-30-2002, 09:09 AM
Senior Member
 
Les H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Pleasanton, CA USA
Posts: 456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Yes, I think Consumer Reports is absolutely honest and unbiased. That's a rare thing, so I appreciate it.

However, at times on certain subjects they may be uninformed and therefore misguided. Subjects like ... audio and video equipmnt.

Les
Les H is offline  
post #20 of 26 Old 08-30-2002, 03:14 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Kipp Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,785
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally posted by Les H
Kippjones:

But are you sure this referred to Consumer Reports specifically?

I know this happens with the commercial car magazines. Absolutely.

But I think Consumer Reports is different. They don't accept ads from anyone, and don't let anyone use their ratings as endorsements.

Les
Les,
I am 100% sure.




Quote:
I'm sorry...but there is a reason why European and Asian cars get such high marks...THEY'RE BETTER! American cars are improving but there is no comparison in my mind!

I disagree. I used to work for a Mercedes/BMW dealership and I saw first hand what level the cars are at.

Kipp
Are you boozen & cruisin the AVS? Join us here --->
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
good times!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Kipp Jones is offline  
post #21 of 26 Old 08-30-2002, 03:24 PM
Senior Member
 
Les H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Pleasanton, CA USA
Posts: 456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Like RPTV's, I guess, people are imperfect.

Les
Les H is offline  
post #22 of 26 Old 08-30-2002, 06:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Forceflow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,743
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I've had a 19" Sony TV for 18 years and it still runs perfect. It has a slight red push (now that I know what it is, I see it in the TV....it irks me...) but otherwise is excellent. My dad swears by them and after our debacle with a Tosh HDTV that doesn't wanna get fixed, I may go Sony. Are Sony TVs really that reliable or is it a reputation that had merit but now doesn't apply?

***Warning*** Do not look into laser with remaining eye!!
Forceflow is offline  
post #23 of 26 Old 08-30-2002, 07:36 PM
Senior Member
 
Les H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Pleasanton, CA USA
Posts: 456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
When you bought your 18 year old Sony they were extremely reliable.

Unfortunately, that's not still the case. They don't rank well for reliability with Consumer Reports, nor with most people I know who own them.

Check around before you assume that things are still the same as they were 18 years ago.

Les
Les H is offline  
post #24 of 26 Old 09-02-2002, 04:26 AM
Senior Member
 
David Mathews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Howell, MI, USA
Posts: 273
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Check around before you assume that things are still the same as they were 18 years ago.
Same with cars or anything, (I'm with one of the Big Three, biased. Do to our transgressions 15 years ago, we now know we have to actually beat Toyota/Honda to even get perception we are equal... Would not have sold my Honda and come here if I didn't think we could do it. We are beginning to match in areas, and even surpass in some, but we have work to go before we surpass everywhere, and its a moving target. (makes it more fun... ;)

My Dad felt the same way about Sony. Thought it great. Told him a friend stationed over in orient said Sony had a rep as Junk over there. Friend said they tested things out on public.

On consumer reports, I believe they do try to be honest. They try to be technical, but is almost comical sometimes. They once comparison tested some cars that mostly standard four cylinders and optional 6 cylinders. They ordered one with just the four cylinder then bashed it, said it was under-powered compared to the other cars. I remember because it was one of ours so I was pretty mad. To top it off, even if they had added the V6 it still would have cost less than competition! I won't speculate that we didn't give them free trips when others did. The above test was perhaps over 5-10years ago. We have had people go to consumer reports to understand how they test. While many of tests are still subjective, they are improving and I believe giving an honest effort.

Dave
David Mathews is offline  
post #25 of 26 Old 09-03-2002, 01:49 PM
Senior Member
 
M.Hat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Alberta
Posts: 414
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I queried Consumer Reports and their legal department makes the following unequivocal assertion:

"Consumer Reports accepts NO gifts, NO freebies, NO favors. We DO NOT accept (nor are we ever offered) trips overseas or to Detroit! We test the products fairly against others of the same category and report on our finding.

We purchase our test samples anonymously on the open market just as any consumer would. This is the only way we can assure that the products we test are the same ones that you purchase - nothing special because of who we are and why we buy them! That is why consumers CAN trust our reports. As for reliability ratings, another posting in this thread is correct. We report on reliability of products based on responses to our Annual Questionnaire, which indeed included the responses from at least 20,000 subscribers who tell us of their experiences with a particular product."

This should put an end to false statements concerning a trusted non-profit institution of impeccable reputation.

Cheers.

Don
M.Hat is offline  
post #26 of 26 Old 11-19-2002, 10:22 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,761
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 816
Quote:
Originally posted by M.Hat
I queried Consumer Reports and their legal department makes the following unequivocal assertion:

"Consumer Reports accepts NO gifts, NO freebies, NO favors. We DO NOT accept (nor are we ever offered) trips overseas or to Detroit! We test the products fairly against others of the same category and report on our finding.

We purchase our test samples anonymously on the open market just as any consumer would. This is the only way we can assure that the products we test are the same ones that you purchase - nothing special because of who we are and why we buy them! That is why consumers CAN trust our reports. As for reliability ratings, another posting in this thread is correct. We report on reliability of products based on responses to our Annual Questionnaire, which indeed included the responses from at least 20,000 subscribers who tell us of their experiences with a particular product."

This should put an end to false statements concerning a trusted non-profit institution of impeccable reputation.

Cheers.
Reviewers can always be biased, but reliabilty ratings seem pretty accurate and atleast attemp to be so..

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
Closed Thread Rear Projection Units

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off