Samsung DLP -N- series tweaks thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 1751 Old 10-16-2003, 10:46 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by sooke
Hi baja,

What is your firmware rev? My 467 has v302. It also does not have a "video recall" under options.


version 214
To confirm, after more research I found it did reset the UM but did not touch the SM.
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post #362 of 1751 Old 10-16-2003, 12:09 PM
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Has anyone noticed that changing the Red, Green and Blue offsets/gains on the Antenna input will sometimes change the numbers on the component 1 480P input? I thought they were supposed to be separate. It really freaked me out when I wrote down my defaults, change the Antenna offset/gain settings and went into the component1 480P settings and they no longer matched the defaults. This is scary for people that only write down defaults for one input at a time then adjust, or come back to adjust later when they have a new device.

This doesn't seem to always happen. Plus changing the RGB offset/gain on the Comp1 480P doesn't seem to affect the Antenna values.

FYI, I have v302.

Sil
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post #363 of 1751 Old 10-16-2003, 12:15 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Silurian
Has anyone noticed that changing the Red, Green and Blue offsets/gains on the Antenna input will sometimes change the numbers on the component 1 480P input? I thought they were supposed to be separate. It really freaked me out when I wrote down my defaults, change the Antenna offset/gain settings and went into the component1 480P settings and they no longer matched the defaults. This is scary for people that only write down defaults for one input at a time then adjust, or come back to adjust later when they have a new device.

This doesn't seem to always happen. Plus changing the RGB offset/gain on the Comp1 480P doesn't seem to affect the Antenna values.

FYI, I have v302.

Sil

Hhmm... Not exactly. As detailed in a post of mine on the previous page, my DVI RGB values changed after I changed the Antenna gamma. I don't know if the antenna gamma change caused it, or if it was a coincidence.

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post #364 of 1751 Old 10-16-2003, 01:08 PM
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These are the SM DEFAULT SETTINGS
(for v306 - HLN5065)



DDP1010 (ALL)

POS-Y 7
POS-X 159
Delay 224
Gamma 4

DNIe (ALL)

R-Gain 146
G-Gain 120
B-Gain 104
R-Offset 115
G-Offset 127
B_Offset 133
S_BR (DDP) 248
S_CT (DDP) 113

AD9883 (Comp/480p)

Y_Gain 185
Y_Offset 60
CR_Gain 175
CR_Offset 58
CB_Gain 175
CB_Offset 62


VPC3230 (Component 1/480i)

BR_M 158
CT_M 40
Tint_M 134
IFC 2

VPC3230 (Svid/Ant)

BR_M 158
CT_M 40
SAT_M 1970
TINT_M 134
PFS_M narrow
PK_M 2
PKCOR_M enable
BR_S 158
CT_S 40
SAT_S 1970
TINST_S 134
PFS_S narrow
PK_S 2
PKCOR_S enable
IFC_M 2
CBW_M 3
LOWP-M 1
LPF2 0
CBW2-M BYPA
IFC_S 2
CBW_S 3
LOWP_S 1
LPF2_S 0
CBW2_S BYPA

FLI2300 (Ant)

CT 128
BR 128
SAT 170
LOW_FREQ 28
HIGH_FREQ 88
MULTI_MTN 56
Y_BR 1023
CB_BR 1023
CR_BR 1023
NR off

3D-COMB (ALL)

DYCOR 1
DYGAIN 10
DCCOR 2
DCGAIN 10
CORING off
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post #365 of 1751 Old 10-16-2003, 04:13 PM
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kmil, sooke, Craig,
Thanks a ton for the help. Leaving it unplugged for a little bit and then booting it up right into the SM put a picture on the screen. I navigated backwards to the lamp setting, selected it, and the whole thing fixed itself... Maybe no more tweaking for a few days
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post #366 of 1751 Old 10-17-2003, 05:43 AM
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I am experiencing a little green in dark scenes. Is this something that should be addressed in the gain adjustments or the off sets?
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post #367 of 1751 Old 10-17-2003, 08:40 AM
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Fellows, after reading many threads on the HLN617W, I still can't come to a conclusion about how to turn a football or baseball field from neon green to natural grass color. I'm a bit tentative about going into the service menu, but I'll do it if there is a difinitive fix. I'm connecting with analog cable straight to the DLP. The OOTB picture was excellent with this exception. The analog cable is surprisingly good. Also, under the above scenario, will turning gamma to 0 have any positive effect? If so, what?
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post #368 of 1751 Old 10-17-2003, 09:21 AM
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After 2 weeks of trying all the tweeks out there I have resorted to the OOTB settings in the SM and have resorted to just adjusting the PQ in the UM. Every adjustment I would make in the SM would fix one channel but then mess up another. Heck sometimes you would adjust for one scene and then the when the program switched to another scene it would look like hell. I have also tried using Avia to see how each tweek effecteced the color and hue and the OOTB settings seemed to be almost right on the money. Every other suggested tweek threw them off. I also found that Gama 0 gave for a dim picture and lost detail in PQ. I found that overall PQ seems best for SD when you run the color down to 35-40 in the UM. For HD you can bring it back to 45-50 for 'true HD' but treat upoconverted HD just the same as SD. I have the contrast at 90, brightness at 50 and sharpness at 25. For me this seems to be the best across the board. I have found that the Sammy DLP does require much more "tuning" for each different feed, there are no real true across the board settings. My 567 is not like my Pioneer 503 plasma where after an hour with Avia in the SM you were golden across the board.
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post #369 of 1751 Old 10-17-2003, 10:32 AM
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catmanz,

For me and my 467 (with v302 firmware) I have found that the most important tweak was setting gamma from 4 to 0. To my eyes, the gamma 4 setting made the picture too contrasty. That is, dark to mid hues seemed crushed towards dark, while mid to bright hues seemed crushed towards bright. This probably makes the picture stand out on the showroom floor, but does not look natural to me. Shadow detail also improved at gamma 0.

Also, setting gamma to 0 (I did it for DVI, comp, and ant) seemed to eliminate the "sunburn" I used to see at gamma 4.

I've tried one other poster's RGB settings (for hln507, v302), but for DVI I returned to the default settings and think it looks best. For Ant the tweaked settings looked better.

Obviously none of this was done scientifically. I just went by what looked best to my eyes. I'm still tweaking comp3 input, skin tones look slightly green.

If you want to venture into SM I would try gamma 0 or 2 first. If you still have problems with neon grass, changing the RGB gains/cuts is probably your next step.

As always, record your defaults first.

Sooke


Quote:


Originally posted by catmanz
Fellows, after reading many threads on the HLN617W, I still can't come to a conclusion about how to turn a football or baseball field from neon green to natural grass color. I'm a bit tentative about going into the service menu, but I'll do it if there is a difinitive fix. I'm connecting with analog cable straight to the DLP. The OOTB picture was excellent with this exception. The analog cable is surprisingly good. Also, under the above scenario, will turning gamma to 0 have any positive effect? If so, what?


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Sony BDP-S5100 Blu-ray player
Samsung SMT-H3272 DVR
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post #370 of 1751 Old 10-17-2003, 10:39 AM
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Craig,

My HLN5065W SM "Delay" setting was defaulted to 212. I've since changed it to 222 and that seems to have helped my PQ. I'll compare the rest of your defaults to what mine were/are. I did get an "out-of-box" deal on this TV, so maybe the prev. owner was messing with it.

Neil
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post #371 of 1751 Old 10-17-2003, 11:56 AM
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I've had much the same experience as a couple of you. I tried the tweaked settings on my 56" v. 302, and have since reset them to the defaults, except for gamma. For DVI my gamma is 0, for everything else it is set to 2. I found gamma of 0 for SDTV to be to dim. Gamma of 2 seems very good. My factory defaults for all; gammas was 4. Additionally, (for reference) my delay was set OTB at 225. Like baja wrote above the difference in PQ from station to station is large. I also tune each station in the UM. My DVI defaults seem pretty good right now. I am still puzzled as to why the TV will not show the AVIA black bars on the brightness test using a XP-30 on Comp1. Any ideas? BTW I tried gamma 0,2,4 and 5 and the TV will not resolve the moving black bars....which my previous HLM507
could show no problem.


Mark

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post #372 of 1751 Old 10-17-2003, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by catmanz
I still can't come to a conclusion about how to turn a football or baseball field from neon green to natural grass color. I'm a bit tentative about going into the service menu, but I'll do it if there is a difinitive fix.

I don't know why these things are like this out of the box but this is typical of the Samsung DLP. However it is easily fixed. I adjusted the G-Gains in the service menu. I have not played with the offset adjustments yet as I have not gotten any definite explanations of what that does. But I did play with the R and G gains and all I needed to do was lower the G about 10 units to get it right. The only areas I'm still fiddling with is the shadows which sometimes still look a little green but I was able to solve the neon field issue with the G- gain.
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post #373 of 1751 Old 10-18-2003, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sea Ray
I don't know why these things are like this out of the box but this is typical of the Samsung DLP. However it is easily fixed. I adjusted the G-Gains in the service menu. I have not played with the offset adjustments yet as I have not gotten any definite explanations of what that does. But I did play with the R and G gains and all I needed to do was lower the G about 10 units to get it right. The only areas I'm still fiddling with is the shadows which sometimes still look a little green but I was able to solve the neon field issue with the G- gain.

I have noticed the same thing with the shadows looking a little green. Funny thing is even lowering the color in the UM way down does not seem to help very much. My current 567 is ver 214, I am getting a replacement delivered today due to a dead mirror. I will be curious to see what version firmware this unit comes with and see if the OOTB PQ is any different. I believe this new unit is from a different shipment since the current unit is 7 weeks old.
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post #374 of 1751 Old 10-18-2003, 12:10 PM
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baja,
You'll almost surley be getting a v. 304

Mark

" Before enlightenment chop wood and carry water, after enlightenment chop wood and carry water"
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post #375 of 1751 Old 10-18-2003, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark@Ct
baja,
You'll almost surley be getting a v. 304

Mark

That is just what I got. Looking good so far, haven't found any dead mirrors.
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post #376 of 1751 Old 10-18-2003, 12:28 PM
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II just got mine on Monday which replaced HLM507. Mine also looks good but have switched gammas as described above.

Good luck!
Mark

" Before enlightenment chop wood and carry water, after enlightenment chop wood and carry water"
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post #377 of 1751 Old 10-19-2003, 06:32 AM
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The red is killing me on my replacement 567. Every looks like they were nuked. I have turned down my R Gain from 120 to 113 and R Offset from 126 to 123. Of course now this only makes green even greener. It seems like there is no real winning, you get better on reds and make greens worse. If I try turning down greens it makes the reds stronger. I have also changed my Gama from 4 to 0 which has helped offset the green somewhat. This however also dims the picture somewhat. Does anyone know exactly what Offset does compared to Gain What is better adjusting??


BTW...here are the factory defaults on my 567 verson 302:

G-gain-120
R-gain-120
B-Gain-110
R-Offset-126
G-Offset-128
B-Offset-131

Gama-4
Delay-223
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post #378 of 1751 Old 10-19-2003, 07:40 AM
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I just bought my Samsung DLP HLN507W ver 3.02, and I am seriously not prepared for this TV.
When I first got ready to adjust my TV, I saw my Tint option adjustment. Now, I played around with it, and I cannot find this option anywhere in my screen adjustment when adjusting component from my 301 sony DVD player.
I am trying to use AVIA to make my adjustments, and Im sure they are way off. But my current settings are:
Custom: Contrast 57, Black level 50, Sharpness 7, and color is 68. No tint option is present.
I will try to do some more research in the forums, it sound like you have a handle on this tv. I was hoping for a quick answer.
Thanks, Jeff

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post #379 of 1751 Old 10-19-2003, 07:53 AM
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There is no tint control on the HD component (480p+) or DVI inputs (and maybe the VGA input... I'm not sure). The only way to tweek the color on those inputs is to get into the service menu.

-Steve
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post #380 of 1751 Old 10-19-2003, 08:01 AM
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Well that kind of makes since why i cannot find it on the HD side, but does show up in the antenna..(the only two i have connected). Thanks for the answer, Im getting a 101 in DLP with this link. Again, Thanks

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post #381 of 1751 Old 10-20-2003, 11:40 AM
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Supertoyz, any new info?

Quote:
Originally posted by Supertoyz
Your last question regarding sub settings and master settings is a question I've got myself. I found a few documents explaining this. While researching gamma one document said that the difference between these settings is that one adjusts the property before gamma correction and the other effects it after (don't remember which was which). I understood this to mean that I could use one of them to tweak my gamma curve and once I had it as close as possible I'd use the other to properly set the brightness and contrast without effecting the gamma curve. On Milori's website I just read that the master settings control the drive of all three colors while the sub settings only control certain colors....it didn't specify which. I'm still trying to find out the actual answer......might have an answer later today.


Matt
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post #382 of 1751 Old 10-20-2003, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by baja
The red is killing me on my replacement 567. Every looks like they were nuked. I have turned down my R Gain from 120 to 113 and R Offset from 126 to 123. Of course now this only makes green even greener. It seems like there is no real winning, you get better on reds and make greens worse. If I try turning down greens it makes the reds stronger. I have also changed my Gama from 4 to 0 which has helped offset the green somewhat. This however also dims the picture somewhat. Does anyone know exactly what Offset does compared to Gain What is better adjusting??

It's difficult to set color balance or grayscale without some sort of reference or color analyzer. But in any case, the Offset controls apply to the darker part of the picture and the Gain controls apply to the brighter part. They do interact with one another, though, so you need to repetitively go back and forth making adjustments to achieve good grayscale tracking.
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post #383 of 1751 Old 10-27-2003, 11:44 AM
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Another set that seems to match most of these: N617 with 302, had to change GAMMA to 0, and take the green offset down by 7 to 120 to get rid of the dark low-light scenes (NYPD was really bad in this regard) and get rid of the green tint in lowlight.

For those that missed it, note that the gain and offset numbers are similar to what's in one DVE slide and I think it was discussed much earlier in this thread:

The offsets are the constant part of the color level, and the gain is the additional amount added with increasing levels.

(For those that remember Algebra II, the offset is where the line crosses the Y axis, and the gain is the slope of the line! )

Thus, reducing offset should take out a fixed amount of that color, and gain should add/reduce varying amounts.

(DVE is great for getting a handle on things like this... just started to play with my copy yesterday....)

-Lee (See my profile for equipment.)
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post #384 of 1751 Old 10-27-2003, 12:48 PM
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I've had my Samsung 46 for about 2 weeks now and am completely satisfied with the PQ without using any service mode picture adjustments. Reading this forum, I was assuming I would need to, at the least, enter the service mode and change the gamma, and at the most pay for an in home calibration, to get good PQ out of this monitor. I don't know if I am less fussy than the average forum poster or if the newer units or the 46 inch model in particular has better factory settings, but all I have done is turn the picture setting off dynamic and change the settings. Specifically I dropped the color down to about 35-40. Contrast is at about 85, sharpness DOES make a difference in my unit and I keep it about 35 or 40, and the brightness is about 60. The picture looks good. No big-time green push, the field in a football game looks natural, no clay faces.

My sources include high definition digital cable (comcast) as well as a non-progressive scan Sony DVD with component connection. I think this needs to be said, at least for my unit, that it is not necessary to do more than some couch-tuning to get a good picture.

I am sure that if I paid a tech to do an in-home calibration or if I used avia or other similar calibration tools that I might be able to take the picture from great, which it is now, to high-end home theater perfection, but I don't see the need. It may be that once I see it properly calibrated I will say, wow, look what I was missing but at least for now I'm very happy with it. I watched Spy Kids 2 last night on comcast high definition, HBO I think it was, and the PQ was absolutely STUNNING. Even my wife was raving about how much better it looked than the DVD, which we own and have watched several times with kids.

Is this chicken what I have, or is this fish?
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post #385 of 1751 Old 10-27-2003, 12:58 PM
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rodney,

Do, by any chance, know which version of firmware your set has? It would be on the bottom right of the SM screen.

I'm curious because your's is the first post I've read where sharpness made any difference. I'm wondering if it's because of newer firmware.

--Neil
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post #386 of 1751 Old 10-27-2003, 01:48 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by baja
[b]After 2 weeks of trying all the tweeks out there I have resorted to the OOTB settings in the SM and have resorted to just adjusting the PQ in the UM. Every adjustment I would make in the SM would fix one channel but then mess up another. Heck sometimes you would adjust for one scene and then the when the program switched to another scene it would look like hell. I have also tried using Avia to see how each tweek effecteced the color and hue and the OOTB settings seemed to be almost right on the money. Every other suggested tweek threw them off. I also found that Gama 0 gave for a dim picture and lost detail in PQ.

I have to agree Baja, gamma 0 is just too dim. The brite scenes are great, but dark scenes are barely visible on my 437 rev 302. I am back to gamma 4 with reduction to levels you mention for UM settings.

Rick
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post #387 of 1751 Old 10-27-2003, 02:12 PM
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Thank god, I thought I was crazy cause I just went back to defaults last night before reading this. Agree on gamma 0 to dim & lost detail. Tried the gains and offsets too, similar results as you. I have noticed sometimes the scenes just have pale or red faces and then the next scene etc. is ok, even worse for different movies and channels, so I dont think its the TV. I now have 500 hours on bulb and I think it is just recently broken in.
Everything looks GREAT now back at defaults with UM changes, which I finally realized change back to default for each input after you enter the SM
Never could get Avia to look right.

I have a 507 rev 302, SM defaults, Samsung 160 thru DVI, Progressive DVD thru component

Contrast 100
Brightness 50
Color 35
Sharpness 10 - This seems to really help the SD stuff on my set.
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post #388 of 1751 Old 10-28-2003, 04:31 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Michael.Chrisco
Sharpness 10 - This seems to really help the SD stuff on my set.

Do you have DNIe ON or OFF for your SD inputs ? Someone posted that SHARPNESS seemed to be tied to DNIe somehow.
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post #389 of 1751 Old 10-28-2003, 07:07 AM
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How do you reset to default? Is the default for 302 the same throughout all the models? I have a HLN437W v302. Now if only I had taken down those numbers before making adjustment.

Also, which slide of DVE help you in adjusting Gain and Offset? I found only one on Title 11 Chapter 13 which shows a screenful of Grayscale. But it is very difficult to adjust.
DVE also doesn't help me in adjusting brightness and sharpness in Basic Calibration as I cannot see the pattern described in the DVD. The only thing I find useful is the Contrast and Color.
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post #390 of 1751 Old 10-28-2003, 09:15 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by neilometer
rodney,

Do, by any chance, know which version of firmware your set has? It would be on the bottom right of the SM screen.

I'm curious because your's is the first post I've read where sharpness made any difference. I'm wondering if it's because of newer firmware.

--Neil

Neil, I can't recall off-hand which firmware I have as I am at work right now but the unit is only a couple weeks old so I'm sure it is the newest. Also, since I posted I have re-fiddled with the sharpness and was unable to 100% convince myself that there was a difference between 0 and 100. I'm still very happy with my settings overall although I have gone up on the contrast to about 90-94 since i was finding that the occasional low-light scene was too dark.

The more I read about people using the SM to adjust their sets, the more I think that the best solution for overall multi-source good PQ is just sticking with the UM unless you are pathologically anal or have way too much time on your hands . Your results may vary...

Is this chicken what I have, or is this fish?
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