Surge Suppressor and clean power???? - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 1384 Old 10-02-2003, 06:22 AM
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gt5095b, you're welcome. That's what's so great about this place. Enjoy the show!

SURGE PROTECTION BASICS

"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger."
Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring, J. R. R. Tolkien, Book I, Chapter 3
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post #122 of 1384 Old 10-02-2003, 07:43 PM
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Just to make sure that I get it right...having read various posts in this thread, it appears confusing..

I have a Stereo, Home theatre, VCR, DISH Receiver, and (in 48 hours) a DLP. So if I get a PW8R15AUD, plug it in the main outlet, and then use ONE of its outlets to connect a MONSTER (level 2 or 3 ) surge protection strip, and in turn connect all devices on the monster, this would be a great setup. However, i am not sure why I in this setup I would beed a PW8R15AUD which has 8 outputs?
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post #123 of 1384 Old 10-02-2003, 07:45 PM
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Sorry for the typo. In prev. msg, read BEED ---> NEED
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post #124 of 1384 Old 10-03-2003, 07:03 AM
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Khiyal,

The setup you describe is the right way to combine a Series Mode surge protector with a seperate power conditioner. However, there's no reason to buy an 8-outlet Brickwall. Just buy one of the two outlet models from Brickwall, ZeroSurge or Surgex. I have (in effect) a one-outlet Surgex with a multi-outlet power conditioner plugged into it. All components are then plugged into the power conditioner.

Doug

P.S. To correct a typo just click the "edit" button at the top right corner of your massage, um, missage, um... post!

SURGE PROTECTION BASICS

"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger."
Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring, J. R. R. Tolkien, Book I, Chapter 3
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post #125 of 1384 Old 10-03-2003, 08:37 AM
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Great! Thanks for the info Doug.

So it is a Brick Wall PW2RAUD 20A ($185 + 12.85 Shipping) and a Monster HTS5100 (S449 + 31.99 Shipping). Hopefully would get these within the next few days. Thanks all for the help.

PS: The SURGENDER is confusing... The price that is.. I have seen it as low as $2.19 to as high as $16.99. Is the following the same as what is being discussed here?

http://dlsus.chainreactionweb.com/ca...roducts_id=118
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post #126 of 1384 Old 10-03-2003, 08:41 AM
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Doug-

It seems that those Radio Shack coax protectors I told you about are rated to clamp @75V ("strips" clamp at ~35V for satellite and 1V for cable). This seems rather high to me...is it?

Also, the whole house surge protector I have is rated @500V clamping. I know this isn't the preferred rating of 400V, but how much of a difference does it make to my electroncis without a seperate surge protector?

George
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post #127 of 1384 Old 10-06-2003, 06:30 AM
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George,

I'm highly UNqualified to answer these questions. Perhaps someone with real electronics knowledge will step in.

FWIW, Brickwall claims a maximum let-through voltage of 290V. This is obviously "better" than 400 or 500, but how much difference this would make to your equipment is beyond my knowledge.

Doug

SURGE PROTECTION BASICS

"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger."
Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring, J. R. R. Tolkien, Book I, Chapter 3
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post #128 of 1384 Old 10-08-2003, 03:25 PM
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Doug,

Thank you so much for the post. Just spoke to Brickwall - their sales person confirmed that unless you have analog devices like VCR or turntable - you are ok with "non-AUD" version. He also metioned that from the surge protection perspective the 2 outlet version + some kind of outlet replicator plugged in is fine, but from the quality of sound - to each its own -

Thanks again for all
Steven
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post #129 of 1384 Old 10-09-2003, 06:55 AM
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Khiyal - yes, that's the Surgender I have. Great price at $2.19!

ladislav_1969,

You're welcome. That's interesting input from Brickwall. I always thought the AUD models were more heavily wired to ensure no current limiting, which would be more important for power amps than VCR's or TT's. Live and learn.

Doug

SURGE PROTECTION BASICS

"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger."
Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring, J. R. R. Tolkien, Book I, Chapter 3
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post #130 of 1384 Old 10-10-2003, 11:22 AM
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A point of clarification needed. Would I need the surgender(s) if I use the monster 5100 set which already has 3 coax modules.
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post #131 of 1384 Old 10-10-2003, 01:59 PM
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It depends on what kind of surge protectors Monster uses in their coax modules:
  • if they're MOV based, when they take their last hit they'll let the next spike through and/or catch fire (bad),

    if they're gas tube based like the Surgender, when they take their last hit they should stop passing any signal (good),

    if they're series mode based (very unlikely from Monster AFAIK) they should protect you more or less forever (best)
You'll have to read the Monster specs or ask them. Or just go big and shell out $2.19 per Surgender and have two levels of protection! If you do that, put the Surgenders before the Monster. That will protect the Monster just in case it's MOV-based.

SURGE PROTECTION BASICS

"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger."
Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring, J. R. R. Tolkien, Book I, Chapter 3
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post #132 of 1384 Old 10-10-2003, 02:20 PM
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I just got a Brickwall (8 outlet Audiophile version) and I can actually see the difference. My old surge suppressor must have had little to no actual filtering. It's stubtle mind you, but It's in viewing an older 27" CRT.

I am going to have a Samsung 467 soon. I will also use a Belkin 800VA UPS for it as well.

-Ed

The SHT - Stealth Home Theater
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post #133 of 1384 Old 10-10-2003, 02:35 PM
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I got the Brickwall as well, and 4 surgenders for various connections. I was hoping the Bric would stop an annoiying band of alternating magenta and green that crawls up my screen, (Only through my Dish 501), but it did not. However, I feel much better about my overall surge protection.

I called surgender today to ask wether it mattered what direction they went in, because the outlets on my wall plate are too closely spaced to fit them together. The guy said if they're not marked directionally, not to worry.

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post #134 of 1384 Old 10-18-2003, 11:35 PM
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OK, I will have a main distribution closet which everything goes through. Dishnetwork, AVR, DVD, phone, etc..

So naturally I would want a series based protector in the closet and then a filter/conditoner... but what do I do with a ceiling mounted LCD projector, I was planing to put a 2 gang outlet in the ceiling, but now I'm looking for a way to run it off the protected power in the distribution closet.

Any ideas???
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post #135 of 1384 Old 10-18-2003, 11:43 PM
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It looks like the in-line surge protectors such as the Surgender are great but I've had some nasty ground loops in the past even with my DBS and OTA Attena grounded on the outside of the house with a ground block and grounds on the antenna's themselves, I found the Panamax DBS takes care of that problem, where I don't think the Surgender would... any comments?
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post #136 of 1384 Old 10-19-2003, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by pepsi
It looks like the in-line surge protectors such as the Surgender are great but I've had some nasty ground loops in the past even with my DBS and OTA Attena grounded on the outside of the house with a ground block and grounds on the antenna's themselves, I found the Panamax DBS takes care of that problem, where I don't think the Surgender would... any comments?

The panamax is grounding the coax shield through the electrical ground circuit. Not a solution, but a fix. You should have every ground rod bonded with the main electrical ground. That's the fix, and code too.
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post #137 of 1384 Old 10-19-2003, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by pepsi
OK, I will have a main distribution closet which everything goes through. Dishnetwork, AVR, DVD, phone, etc..

So naturally I would want a series based protector in the closet and then a filter/conditoner... but what do I do with a ceiling mounted LCD projector, I was planing to put a 2 gang outlet in the ceiling, but now I'm looking for a way to run it off the protected power in the distribution closet.

Any ideas???

First to look into would be a panel mount version which will protect an entire circuit. Other than that, if you prefer one of the audio versions with isolated circuits, you could run a seperate romex to the projector which will connect to the protector in the closet. Not difficult at all, but consult an electrician to wire this properly.
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post #138 of 1384 Old 10-20-2003, 05:07 AM
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Leviton has electrical outlets with built in surge.

Mike
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post #139 of 1384 Old 10-20-2003, 12:54 PM
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For a ground loop hum filter on a coax run, go to RS and buy two 75-to-300 ohm converters. Should cost < $5. Wire the two 300 ohm sides together using any old wire. Insert in the 75 ohm run where convenient but AFTER the ground. Costs nearly nothing and works like a charm for me. (I'd credit the guy on AA who taught me that one but I can't find his post. It's buried over there somewhere.)

SURGE PROTECTION BASICS

"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger."
Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring, J. R. R. Tolkien, Book I, Chapter 3
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post #140 of 1384 Old 10-20-2003, 06:13 PM
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I found that if you run your grounds back to ONE terminating point, as per the NEC codes, you will have less ground loop problems. The grounding rod/connection that is at your service entrance power panel is supposed to be the ONLY ground connection to the ground of the transformer feeding your house, to add extra grounding rods/connections do nothing but increase the possibility of ground loops, plus are dangerous!
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post #141 of 1384 Old 10-21-2003, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
I found that if you run your grounds back to ONE terminating point, as per the NEC codes, you will have less ground loop problems

While true, it's also impracticle/impossible to do for older homes which predate cable being run as a standard install feature. My house is only 20 years old and the cable was installed well after the house was built. In that case you don't have much choice as to what you use for ground -- more often than not you end up with a new grounding spike somewhere out in your yard.
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post #142 of 1384 Old 10-21-2003, 07:32 AM
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Yes, that's how my house was, up until a few years ago when I upgraded from cable only service to cable/Internet/phone service via fiber optics from my cable company. The installers did what's called a double run, in that they first ran the service to the power meter entrance, for phone/cable grounding and network box connections, then ran another line from there to the other side of the house, for cable and Internet hookup.

My concern would be if there was a major high amperage short to ground in the electrical system, such as a major failure of a large appliance. The electrical current will take the shortest route to the grounding connection of the outside transformer, which may be your home entertainment equipment via the cable ground. Also if the ground wire were undersized for this short, worst case would be the possibility of a fire. I would consult your local city code officials on the proper way to prevent this problem.
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post #143 of 1384 Old 10-24-2003, 07:10 PM
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OK, this thread has been very timely for me. Thanks to everyone for their input!

One of the devices I had previously looked at is the Richard Gray Power Company line of products. Where do they fit in this mess? It looks like a large coil or transformer in parallel across the line, thus 'smoothing' the transients and storing EMF. Would the SM technology be better overall or would a good solution benefit by combining the products?

Thanks,
Mark
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post #144 of 1384 Old 10-24-2003, 08:40 PM
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Mark, your explanation of the RGPC products is consistent with others I've read. Those who've tried them think they are very beneficial in the ways you described. I happened to choose the Exact Power EP15A, since I needed precise voltage regulation as much as or more than filtering. The Exact Power and the P S Audio units are the only ones that do that, AFAIK. I'm sure you wouldn't go wrong with any of these three, depending on your needs and budget.

The RGPC won't provide series mode spike protection and I'm sure they don't claim to. For that one of the devices I discussed in the post linked in my signature should be used. The surge protector should be installed earlier in the circuit than the RGPC or any other line conditioner.

SURGE PROTECTION BASICS

"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger."
Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring, J. R. R. Tolkien, Book I, Chapter 3
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post #145 of 1384 Old 10-24-2003, 10:05 PM
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Do the links at the end of my post all point to the same product mentioned in this thread?

Can this product be installed where the cable line enters into my apt. and protect all of my devices or does this need to be installed at each component?

Will this device interfere with a cable modem?

http://dlsus.chainreactionweb.com/ca...roducts_id=118

http://www.hucarddirect.com/products/surgender.htm

http://www.skyvision.com/store/mi3000105.html

Thanks.
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post #146 of 1384 Old 10-25-2003, 10:12 AM
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DCIFRTHS,

Yes that is the same product we've discussed earlier.

One near the cable entry would work, save for the small risk of a surge entering the cable between that point and a component. I suppose if lightning strikes there the TV or PC might be the least of your worries! Put the Surgender as close to the splitter as possible to minimize that risk.

I can't imagine it interfering with cable modem, though I don't have one myself to say for sure. It doesn't affect my analog or digital TV reception, which ought to be at least as sensitive as data going to a modem.

SURGE PROTECTION BASICS

"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger."
Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring, J. R. R. Tolkien, Book I, Chapter 3
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post #147 of 1384 Old 10-25-2003, 03:46 PM
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Any additional information on the Empower line from SureX? Looks cool and may combine the Monster with the Brickwall?

Sounds like people like the Brickwall+ Monster or other filter/conditioner combination?
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post #148 of 1384 Old 10-25-2003, 04:18 PM
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I spoke with the Empower folks this week, the 510 will ship in November.
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post #149 of 1384 Old 10-25-2003, 05:01 PM
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What is the 510? I thought the units on the web are 1100 and 2100 I think? What is the feature set of the 510 and the whole Empower line?
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post #150 of 1384 Old 10-25-2003, 05:22 PM
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Info here: Empower
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