Hitachi tweaks Q&A thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 430 Old 09-18-2003, 03:07 PM
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Does that lime green problem still exist in the new s500's? I haven't changed that parameter yet...I guess I'll try it out.
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post #92 of 430 Old 09-18-2003, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I believe the S500 defaults to G-STR-0 = 0

It is wise to double check
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post #93 of 430 Old 09-18-2003, 05:01 PM
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You are correct sir! I have the S500 and it does default to 00, (G-STR-0 = 00). I have to say I'm a bit dissapointed in the Hitachi out-of-box performance. The low temp setting, (black and white) is very red and you can some reds in the black, (brown). I'm sure the reds may be intentional by Hitachi to simulate the look of old Black and White photos. The other temps seems to really push blue and green. My greyscale is really outta wack so I'm sure I'm not being fair about my observation. I will need to get a calibration before I can judge the quality.

Best Regards,
Tony
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post #94 of 430 Old 09-18-2003, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, Hitachi OOTB grayscale has always left something to be desired. Standard is generally the best on the S500, once you reduce the green cut a bit.
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post #95 of 430 Old 09-19-2003, 01:27 AM
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I eyeballed greyscale on the B&W temp and I got it looking close to the Mits, (in some respects). It seems to me the Mits had richer color and a much sharper picture though. I'm still deciding on it. The wife dosen't like it as much as the Mits so I might get it swapped and go back to the Mits 2004 model. I had a 2003 Platnium (no DVI connector) and I exchanged it for the Hitachi. I still can't get past some of the Hitachi's color and the picture seems softer. I noticed some grain in the picture, though it might be noise from the cable. Also noticed some moire affect at times and the zipper effect. I took some of the tweaks posted here and applied them. The picture did improve somewhat. I guess my expectations are too high.

Best Regards,
Tony
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post #96 of 430 Old 09-19-2003, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Eyeballing, it will be close to impossible for you to match up the Hitachi with the Mits. Until the grayscales are professionally calibrated, you can't really draw a conclusion Mits vs. hitachi in regards to color. I found that eyeballing standard color temp on the Hitachi yields better results with actual programming than B&W (not sure why).

All that being said, I do prefer the Mits and recommend going to a 2004 model if you have the opportunity.
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post #97 of 430 Old 09-19-2003, 08:59 AM
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Thanks for the replies guys!!

A Hitachi tech is coming out next week to "setup" my 51S500 (it was included with the purchase) and I was wondering if I should just mention the green blacks issue to him and the GCUT fix. Do you think he'll do more harm than good?
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post #98 of 430 Old 09-19-2003, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by lorenmc
Thanks for the replies guys!!

A Hitachi tech is coming out next week to "setup" my 51S500 (it was included with the purchase) and I was wondering if I should just mention the green blacks issue to him and the GCUT fix. Do you think he'll do more harm than good?

Gray scale calibration will fix your problem. If he doesn't have the proper test equipment (or doesn't know what he is doing), he may do more harm the good. Its a crapshoot whether or not you get a good factory authorized tech or not.
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post #99 of 430 Old 09-19-2003, 01:38 PM
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newbie questions about the grayscale and drives and cuts:

1) what exactly are these settings controlling?

for the S500 models, when you first get to the main service menu, it has i think 4 different CUTS listed there.....what are those for? and in the actual service menu there's G-DRV, R-DRV, G-CUT, R-CUT and B-CUT.....all for H (high temp), M (med temp), S (std temp) and B (b/w temp).

2) what exactly are each of these doing?

3) how come they are only for the Color Temperature settings, and not for different signal inputs (3, D or E) --- maybe a dumb question?

4) without the proper test equipment, what Avia or DVE test patterns would i use to eyeball calibrate these different settings?

thanks.

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post #100 of 430 Old 09-19-2003, 02:40 PM
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I'll start out with some basic info about TV in general. The TV mixes three primary colors of light, red, green and blue to achieve the full NTSC spectrum of color. It accomplishs this using light output, (luninence) in combination with the phasing, (mixing) of the three primary colors, to obtain all of the different colors of the spectrum. The light output of a TV can be measured and organized into a standard called IRE. IRE is defined as:

IRE (Institute of Radio Engineers) 1 Volt Peak - Peak Video is divided up into 140 IRE units. This is done to make numbers for luminance levels easier to communicate. The amplitude of the video signal from blanking (zero volts) to peak white is 0.714286 volts or 100 IRE units. Synchronization signals extend from blanking to -0.285714 volts or -40 IRE units.

Picture Black Level: 7.5 IRE (above zero volts)
Picture White Level: 100.0 IRE (above zero volts)
Blanking Level : 0.0 IRE (zero volt level)
Burst Pedestal : 0.0 IRE (zero volt level)
Synchronization : -40.0 IRE (below zero volts)
Black was raised above 0 IRE in the early days of color television to get around some transmitter problems. The practice has been with us ever since.
The SMPTE component video system does use the IRE system to define video levels. It is based on a 700 mVolt system rather than the 714 mVolt composite video.

Luminance is defined:

Luminance This is the signal that represents brightness in a video picture. Luminance is any value between black and white. In mathematical equations, luminance is abbreviated as Y.

For Color:

Chroma:
The characteristics of color information, independent of luminance intensity. Hue and saturation are qualities of chroma. Black, gray, and white objects do not have chroma characteristics.

Color Subcarrier:
The frequency that carries the color information in the baseband composite video signal. In NTSC the color subcarrier is 3,579,545 Hz, ± 10 Hertz. This number is usually rounded off in text to 3.58 MHz.

Unlike the black and white television standard, where the vertical and horizontal frequencies are derived from the 60 Hz power line frequency, the color subcarrier became the clock reference for the color system. The horizontal and vertical frequencies are now derived from the color subcarrier rather than the power line rate. When we shifted to the color system in 1954 the horizontal and vertical rates changed. The amount of change was small enough so that black and white sets would still synchronize to the updated rate.

A color sync burst of 3.58 MHz is added to the beginning of the horizontal lines to synchronize the color decoding circuits in the display device with the source video.

The phase of the color information in the video is changed 180° for every adjacent line. The change occurs automatically as part of the horizontal timing being derived from the color subcarrier. It has the overall effect of canceling the display of the color subcarrier in the picture. It does, however, produce "dot crawl" at color transitions.

It takes two complete pictures for the phase relationship between the subcarrier and horizontal signal to return to zero. (This presents a minor problem for laserdisc players when displaying a still frame. The color phase has to be electronically reversed every other time a single frame is repeated because a still frame is only half of a color cycle.)


Getting proper grayscale is calibrating gray to a reference standard (color temperature setting), across the IRE spectrum for the TV. The standard reference for movie studios is D6500K, where K is Kelvin, (the color of a flame at 6500 Kelvin). The shade of gray, (as measured against varing light outputs) will change as the IRE changes, producing an array of shades of gray and must be measured with a color analyzer to obtain accurate results, although you can eyeball the color of gray and adjust it "old school" style. You generally adjust cuts for low light output such as 20 IRE and 30 IRE windows, available on Home Theater tune-up DVDs such as AVIA. Drive adjustments are used for higher light outputs such as aan 80 and 90 IRE test windows.

Sorry for the long and winding road, hope it helps some.

Best Regards,
Tony
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post #101 of 430 Old 09-19-2003, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by dogongt
newbie questions about the grayscale and drives and cuts:

1) what exactly are these settings controlling?

for the S500 models, when you first get to the main service menu, it has i think 4 different CUTS listed there.....what are those for? and in the actual service menu there's G-DRV, R-DRV, G-CUT, R-CUT and B-CUT.....all for H (high temp), M (med temp), S (std temp) and B (b/w temp).

2) what exactly are each of these doing?

4) without the proper test equipment, what Avia or DVE test patterns would i use to eyeball calibrate these different settings?

Bill G answers these questions in this and the linked threads. All the info is here guys, you just have to do a little reading. It is a bit tiring to answer the same questions for those who don't thoroughly read or search. (not to say anybody is lazy, you may have just missed it). This thread is intended for Q&A on the list of compiled tweaks. Not for just Q&A.

Quote:


Originally posted by Marc Alexander
Mike Fusick has done us all a favor and compiled a wealth of Hitachi tweaks here

Lets move all the Q&A concerning these tweaks here in this thread.

Quote:


Originally posted by dogongt 3) how come they are only for the Color Temperature settings, and not for different signal inputs (3, D or E) --- maybe a dumb question?

Imagine having to calibrate grayscale and even multiple temparture settings for each input. Not fun...not for me at least!
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post #102 of 430 Old 09-20-2003, 12:59 PM
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Can someone who has had their 51s500 or 51s700 ISF'd provide me with their color decoding settings? I realize that they aren't truly transferrable, but I would like to see what they look like on my 51s700. Also, if you could provide the out-of-the-box settings for your TV as well that would be great. This way I can see if my TV had similar initial color decoding settings.

Thanks,

John
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post #103 of 430 Old 09-21-2003, 10:01 AM
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Could anybody, who's satisfied with their color, share their G-drv-s,
R-drv-s, R-cut-s, G-cut-s, and B-cut-s parameters with us?

If you've changed the paramters of a different color temp thats fine. I just think the consensus is that the standard temp is easiest to work with?
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post #104 of 430 Old 09-22-2003, 07:46 AM
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When you are in the ISF menu:

1) Can you switch inputs as you normally would?

2) How do you save your values once you change them?

Thanks
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post #105 of 430 Old 09-22-2003, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by lorenmc
When you are in the ISF menu:

1) Can you switch inputs as you normally would?

2) How do you save your values once you change them?

Thanks

1) YES

2) ENTER/SELECT on remote
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post #106 of 430 Old 09-23-2003, 01:18 PM
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Thanks to the help of everyone on the forum, I broke down last night and gave my TWX some major attention. I did the following, in order.

1. overscan adjustment, via analog control nobs and new DVE overscan grid (came out at 5% on all sides)
2. Took screen off (really easy to do) to get access to guns
3. Manual focus (covered guns not focusing)..I used a sheet of white paper to hold up to focus on, taped to the top of my set.. it worked well
4. Cleaned lenses with cotton based pads, vacumed to remove lint (TV is about 1 month old....but there was definitely visible dust.
5. Was going to remove antiglare screen, but decided against it ( I have a 2 year old)
6. Oh, For manual focus, I used Mike's recommendation of diverging the 3 colors in the magic focus manual convergence grid...worked like a charm.
7. replaced screen
8. Static Focus adjustments via VR knobs.
9. Redid convergence (although mine seemed just fine, even after overscan adjustment)...or maybe I just don't know what good convergence looks like.
10. Re-adjusted color decoder....used new DVE color bar patterns with white...worked well...tweaked Blue decoder with Color and Tint, Red and Green were done with R/B and G/B respectively (tried to mess with RY and GY...saw some differences, but it seemed to make one area look better, and another area of the screen look worse).
11. Eyeballed Grayscale..then used LOTR:Fellowship moria mines sceen to adjust for too much green in dark environments...seemed to come out ok. This is the one thing I have yet to tweak....

12. Watched SW Episode II...looked great.

13. DVD's PQ looks improved at this point. I am glad I did it.

Thanks again to all!

PS. Anyone do their own greyscale with a manual color bar strip?

pillguy
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post #107 of 430 Old 09-25-2003, 08:57 AM
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To those who have removed a screen on an S500:

1) Do you just follow the intructions provided in the service manual?

2 ) If so, is the removal of the magic sensor quite easy or is it pretty involved? How is it connected to the screen?

Thanks

Loren
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post #108 of 430 Old 09-25-2003, 09:18 AM
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Is it possible to get a ISF Tech to just do a manual focus? I can do the rest myself. (except grayscale)
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post #109 of 430 Old 09-25-2003, 09:23 AM
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also, could someone explain to me the importance of overscan? does it effect the sharpness of the picture? color? what?
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post #110 of 430 Old 09-27-2003, 02:06 PM
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1080i...

It is obviously easy to calibrate the color decoder with a DVD, but that gives you the settings for 480p only...how do you guys calibrate it for HDTV, 1080i/720p?

I noticed I was watching Minority Report on HBO HDTV last night...the whites just seemed too bright. However, I never noticed it on the DVD.

My contrast is at 30% right now.

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post #111 of 430 Old 09-28-2003, 01:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by lorenmc
To those who have removed a screen on an S500:

1) Do you just follow the intructions provided in the service manual?

2 ) If so, is the removal of the magic sensor quite easy or is it pretty involved? How is it connected to the screen?

Thanks

Loren

Why would you want to remove a magic sensor?
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post #112 of 430 Old 09-28-2003, 01:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by Ragermac
Is it possible to get a ISF Tech to just do a manual focus? I can do the rest myself. (except grayscale)

You can do manual focus yourself. Grayscale is worth paying a tech IMO. You would be paying more $ just for the house call if all you wanted was focus.
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post #113 of 430 Old 09-28-2003, 01:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by pillguy
1080i...

It is obviously easy to calibrate the color decoder with a DVD, but that gives you the settings for 480p only...how do you guys calibrate it for HDTV, 1080i/720p?

I noticed I was watching Minority Report on HBO HDTV last night...the whites just seemed too bright. However, I never noticed it on the DVD.

My contrast is at 30% right now.

HD signal generator or DVHS Digital Video Essentials
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post #114 of 430 Old 09-28-2003, 07:37 AM
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To answer a couple questions from above I've heard (not done it so beware) that its possible to do a manual focus without removing the screen on the s500. You remove the bezel piece and control panel below the screen (just let it hang...dont detach wires)and the wingnuts are accessible/ adjustable. This was reported on hts so perhaps search there. This sounds far simpler than screen removal. The majic focus sensors are cabled from the screen to a board inside the set but the manual is unclear where/how to detach the cable. Makes the no screen removal metheod look even better.
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post #115 of 430 Old 09-28-2003, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by Paul Clancy
To answer a couple questions from above I've heard (not done it so beware) that its possible to do a manual focus without removing the screen on the s500. You remove the bezel piece and control panel below the screen (just let it hang...dont detach wires)and the wingnuts are accessible/ adjustable. This was reported on hts so perhaps search there. This sounds far simpler than screen removal. The majic focus sensors are cabled from the screen to a board inside the set but the manual is unclear where/how to detach the cable. Makes the no screen removal metheod look even better.

This is how I focused Tbass2k's S500. The drawback of this method is that you can only see the bottom of the screen, and when you focus it tightly, the rest of the screen may not be tight. It is best to have a friend view from the front when doing this to ensure focus uniformity.
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post #116 of 430 Old 09-28-2003, 03:20 PM
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Also the importance of overscan is to ensure youre not missing picture information when viewing ....ala pan and scan. If credits are cut off like the wide ones in many of the bonds then you have too much overscan. If you decrease overscan too much some sets will introduce convergence errors that cant be corrected ...so its a balancing act. I'm generally happy with 4%-4.5%.
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post #117 of 430 Old 09-28-2003, 05:02 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Paul Clancy
Also the importance of overscan is to ensure youre not missing picture information when viewing ....ala pan and scan. If credits are cut off like the wide ones in many of the bonds then you have too much overscan. If you decrease overscan too much some sets will introduce convergence errors that cant be corrected ...so its a balancing act. I'm generally happy with 4%-4.5%.

Part of overscan that is often not mentioned is centering the screen so the center is the center...

You do not have more overscan on one side than the other.... If one side is 10% and the other side is 3%.... that means your screen is not centered!!

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #118 of 430 Old 09-29-2003, 05:51 AM
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Mike,

I definitely noticed that with my 57TWX. I had to center it first...it was off by about 3% to the bottom, and 2% to the right. Great point. It was pretty obvious once I started trying to tweak the overscan. Must center first.

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post #119 of 430 Old 09-29-2003, 11:05 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Marc Alexander
Why would you want to remove a magic sensor?

Step 7 in the 51s500 service manual for removing the screen says:

"Disconnect the Magic Focus sensor connectors and
loosen the wires from the screen frame.
To avoid injury and breakage, please handle the long
wires and connectors cautiously."

This step is supposed to be done for the screen assembly is removed from the rest of the TV.

Loren
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post #120 of 430 Old 09-29-2003, 12:20 PM
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For all those wanting to focus their sets and don't like the idea of taking off the screen. You should do a manual focus by unscrewing the console with the power/input/magic focus buttons.

To do that just take off the speaker grill, unscrew the two grey plastic bars to the right and left of the power console. Then just unscrew the power console and let it hang. Right in front of that little space will be the lens.

Use the user menu convergence screen and focus all 3 lenses, red and green are most important for sharpness, try to get those REALLY tight.

The difference will be well worth the small amount of effort required and in most cases dramatically better picture quality.
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