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post #181 of 430 Old 01-29-2004, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally posted by Marc Alexander
Mike Fusick has done us all a favor and compiled a wealth of Hitachi tweaks here (51F500 Tweaks) (these tweaks apply to all models with ISF menu, 2002 and beyond)

Lets move all the Q&A concerning these tweaks here in this thread.

Original post edited ("51F500 Tweaks" added to make hyperlink more visible).
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post #182 of 430 Old 02-03-2004, 11:11 PM
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Can a manual convergence be done in the service menu that will allow the magic focus to duplicate these settings to achieve a more perfect auto convergence? If not, is there another way to tweak the magic focus?
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post #183 of 430 Old 02-04-2004, 03:25 AM
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Interpolation is an important step in doing manual convergence as I found out from my last Hitachi RPTV. The service manual states "After convergence and before saving to ROM press VID3 to interpolate or calculate then check convergence again, if OK, Save to ROM and then intialize sensors" Unfortunately this doesn't work with my 51S500. Has anyone had any success in this step????

slimjim
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post #184 of 430 Old 02-04-2004, 06:02 AM
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I tried the vid3 interpolation too, it didn't seem to do anything at all.

-Dave
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post #185 of 430 Old 02-04-2004, 08:41 AM
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raueda1,
Dave did you put the remote in the VCR mode before trying to interopolate?? The instructions say to do it. I did and it still doesn't do anything. Does Yours???

Jim

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post #186 of 430 Old 02-07-2004, 04:50 PM
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After some arm-twisting with the dealer, I recently got my replacement set. Happy to report that geometry was good out of the box, the screen and bezel are actually flat on this one, and the greenies don't seem anywhere near as bad (btw, if you buy one of these in Ottawa in the next little while, and notice any of the above, PM me).

Focus was way off, especially on red. I did the electro focus (DCAM, dots, etc.), but not being blessed with a SM, am at a loss as to what to adjust on the gun/lens assembly for the manual focus.

I've searched the F500 tweaks thread, this Q&A thread, and 500/700 owners thread, to no avail.

Any pointers/pics would be appreciated.

tia,
r.
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post #187 of 430 Old 02-07-2004, 08:09 PM
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I just got my new 51s500, and did a manual convergence before anything else, to try and reduce the grainy effect (I didn't know what else might reduce that). It seemed to help some, although it might just be the properly converged colors making it look better in general. What do I need to do to reduce the grainy?
It seems to have improved some just over a few hours of watching it.
However, the colors on the TV seemed to be... changing towards the end of watching Braveheart.

Can anyone tell me what thread I can find some info on basic user menu settings? All I can find out is that most people seem to be turning the contrast way down, and I've played with Edge enhancement and the rest, but what are some good combinations?
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post #188 of 430 Old 02-07-2004, 08:24 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Vhagar
Can anyone tell me what thread I can find some info on basic user menu settings? All I can find out is that most people seem to be turning the contrast way down, and I've played with Edge enhancement and the rest, but what are some good combinations?

There's tons of info - you just need to make the effort to look for it. (Hint: Try the "Popular Threads" sticky at the top of the forum, or the Search feature ...)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=323602
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post #189 of 430 Old 02-08-2004, 02:23 PM
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Ok, I pretty much found what I was looking for.
I just need to do a Manual focus, and then when my AVIA DVD gets here I can adjust the colors and convergence again.
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post #190 of 430 Old 02-10-2004, 05:44 PM
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I've done focus and convergence, and the tweaks to reduce ghosting/ringing, but i'm still getting some artifacts/blockiness along edges while watching DVDs, and just general noise/blockiness it seems. By turning progressive scan off on my Sony combo DVD player and turning on Auto Movie mode it seemed to reduce alot of it.

I am sitting about 6-7 feet away from a 51 inch screen though.

I am going to be ordering a good DVD player and trashing the sh1tbox I have now soon. Will DCDi interlacing do alot to reduce the blocky edges and such?
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post #191 of 430 Old 02-10-2004, 06:08 PM
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Many of the Sony DVD players are pretty bad and create a lot of artifacts with DVDs while in progressive mode. What you are seeing is common with many of them.

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post #192 of 430 Old 02-14-2004, 09:38 AM
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I got my XP-30 yesterday, and it improved the picture alot. On Goldmember and a couple other DVDs it noticeably reduced blocky artifacts and stairstepping, but it really shined on the first season of the West Wing. The DVD for WW is not very good at all, but the XP-30 REALLY cleaned it up. sitting 6 feet away from a 51 inch screen I will probably always see some noise.

I might need to ask this in the DVD player forum, but when I turn on progressive scan on the XP-30, the picture actualy has more artifacts/noise. I tested this on the shot in Goldmember of Austins plane landing. With progressive on, There was very noticeable stairstepping along the top edge of the plane, but in interlaced mode it was reduced alot.
What gives?
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post #193 of 430 Old 02-15-2004, 07:13 AM
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Marc,

I have implemented the tweaks on my 51uwx20b

SHARP's 10
APRTR's 00
VSMGAM's 01
Y-DTL-0 08 looks best to me

I didn't change the STRGA, its left at 10.

After doing these my picture does indeed look sharper, I have a jvc dvd
player. I don't have hdtv source yet.

Here is my question.

I went thru the isf menu to record all my changes that I made onto paper,
which I also have my original factory settings and checked the entire ISF
menu for the heck of it.

I noticed different settings for these parameters, which I did not change.

SYNCDET 00
F-STD 00
V-STD 00
H-STD 00
These were all 01 originally, but now I cannot change the setting back to
01. It will not repond.

NOISE the settings for this keeps cycling back around and around and
does not stop. It was originally 00. The setting keeps moving every few
seconds.
This one has me the most concerned.

Now I don't have a clue what these parameters are for but it seems like
these may have changed due to changing the other parameters.

Angelo
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post #194 of 430 Old 02-15-2004, 08:01 AM
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Angelo,
Some of the settings change right B4 your eyes when in the menu, I have seen this many times, and others have made note of it too.

I don't believe there is need for you to worry there.

I am not sure why you cannot change settings back though, maybe someone else who knows will chime in.

GL

m

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post #195 of 430 Old 02-15-2004, 11:14 AM
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Thanks Muzz,

At least I know its not a problem with my Hitachi.

Buy the way, even though the NOISE parameter settings keep scrolling
right before my eyes, the picture signal in the background remains the
same.

Angelo
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post #196 of 430 Old 02-15-2004, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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These settings you see dynamically changing are really status displays. It is normal.
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post #197 of 430 Old 02-15-2004, 02:56 PM
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Marc,

Thank you for your reply, too.

A big thank you for all of your input and sharing of knowledge in this
thread and forum.

Angelo
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post #198 of 430 Old 02-15-2004, 11:16 PM
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Well, thanks to all the hard work and information in this forum I have successfully performed many of the tweaks for my 65SWX20B. I am very frustrated with the colors though, all synthetic colors look to hot.
I have done the following (some per the service manual instructions):

Lens hood
Mechanical followed by electrostatic focus
Overscan reduction
Rebuilding geometry with template then proper convergence in DCAM (after I messed it up )
reposition Magic Focus patterns (due to overflow errors)
Misc tweaks for reduced ghosting, ringing ect... with good results!

I have an Onkyo DVD player that passes pluge signals and have used it with the new DVE disk to try and correct the color decoder problems.
With DVE's modified color bar up, I was able to balance the colors through the blue filter (was fine as-is), then I was able to turn down the red (r/b-GAF @ 02 from 0C) and balance the color bar through the red filter, but for the life of me I cannot balance the color bar with the green filter. I have tried every tweak listed in this forum for green. I have tried the g drives and cuts, no joy!
I have my DVD player hooked up via HD Component input 1, and a Sony HD300 via the DVI input. I just use one at a time. Faces of people seem the worst, with green tint in the shadows of the faces. All grass seems to be electric, and any picture with green plant life seems to cause other parts of the picture to have green tint. It is not as noticeable while watching DVD's, and HD broadcast on the HD300, but while watching standard satellite or OTA it is noticeably annoying.
While watching Underworld (nice! ) I still notice slight green tint in some faces even though the film is shot with a cool washed out filter of some sort.
I did not notice it as bad before tweaking, the only thing I can think of is a possibility of bumping one of the screen pots on the focus pack, but I don't think so, I know not to touch those. Or possibly the set is just broken in and needs adjusting? Could it be the HD300? I wish the digital stations would broadcast color bars during sign off....

G/B-GAF is at 00
GY-PH-F is at 00
It seems that if I could adjust G/B-GAF down below 00 it would fix the problem, but obviously I can't.
I am considering having a service tech out to fix this, since I still have part of the 1 year warranty avail.

Any thoughts?

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post #199 of 430 Old 02-16-2004, 12:54 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by JIMHALM4
Interpolation is an important step in doing manual convergence as I found out from my last Hitachi RPTV. The service manual states "After convergence and before saving to ROM press VID3 to interpolate or calculate then check convergence again, if OK, Save to ROM and then intialize sensors" Unfortunately this doesn't work with my 51S500. Has anyone had any success in this step????

Jim - did you go into 7x5 mode first? Not sure if that needs to be done first, but that's how Bill G. describes it in this thread. He is using this to eliminate S-curves on the grid, do you have that problem?

The manual says "This process will take about 1 second and no picture will be seen at this time." You're not getting that?

Matt

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post #200 of 430 Old 02-16-2004, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Grinchyy,

Don't use the color filters...use RGBOUT in the ISF menu to isolate each gun when calibrating the color decoder. CUTs and DRIVEs should also not be touched when calibrating the decoder (they are strictly for grayscale).

What is your G-STR set to? Have you tried using different values?
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post #201 of 430 Old 02-16-2004, 04:46 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Marc Alexander
Grinchyy,

Don't use the color filters...use RGBOUT in the ISF menu to isolate each gun when calibrating the color decoder. CUTs and DRIVEs should also not be touched when calibrating the decoder (they are strictly for grayscale).

What is your G-STR set to? Have you tried using different values?

I have tried G-STR down to 00 did not seem to help. Today I turned down the COLOR in the user menu to about 38. It seems to have taken the edge off. I can't tell if the colors are to washed out now or not...
I did also calibrate with the RGBOUT isolating one color at a time. I think the grayscale is whacked.

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post #202 of 430 Old 02-17-2004, 07:50 AM
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Okay, last night I did a electrostatic and manual focus on my 51S700, and then manual convergence in the DCAM. I had a few "lessons learned" I thought might help others out:

1) The Magic Focus button won't work if it is set to "Manual" in the TV menu.

2) While I did my covergence, I tried the VID3 button to interpolate the data. The picture did not disappear like the manual said, but the flashing line did pause for a second, so I believe it was working. I did not need to go into VCR mode first.

3) After I worked had worked on this for a while, I saved the results to ROM, and then I wanted to initialize the sensors. Both the service manual and the instructions I've seen posted here say to use PIP CH....Which isn't on my remote!! So after a small period of freaking out , I got the user manual for the SWX series and determined that SURF is the comparable button on the new remotes. Then I looked on the next page in my service manual and it shows the SURF button starts initialization.


So I checked out a little HD Jay Leno, it looked good, I don't know if it was better. Everything was pretty good on my set from the factory, the only thing I could tell was improved was the blue focus. I guess they do intentionally defocus it some.

Matt

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post #203 of 430 Old 02-17-2004, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by Grinchyy
I have tried G-STR down to 00 did not seem to help. Today I turned down the COLOR in the user menu to about 38. It seems to have taken the edge off. I can't tell if the colors are to washed out now or not...
I did also calibrate with the RGBOUT isolating one color at a time. I think the grayscale is whacked.

Having a wacked grayscale shouldn't prevent you from getting the color decoder dialed in as they should be independent. Keep us posted.
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post #204 of 430 Old 02-17-2004, 04:52 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Marc Alexander
Having a wacked grayscale shouldn't prevent you from getting the color decoder dialed in as they should be independent. Keep us posted.

Are you sure about that Marc? The color decoder controls how colors are "added" to the base gray; if the base is off that would have to throw off the resulting sum, wouldn't it? I'm not saying the controls aren't separate, just that correct grayscale is a pre-requisite for getting the color decoder exactly right; at least that's what I was led to believe.

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post #205 of 430 Old 02-17-2004, 06:00 PM
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I'm not saying the controls aren't separate, just that correct grayscale is a pre-requisite for getting the color decoder exactly right; at least that's what I was led to believe.

That is a true statement. However, it is usually the primary color/tint controls that are affected most by changing grayscale. The Red/Green Push offsets aren't affected nearly as much, maybe a notch or two at most.

But, your point is valid from a whole color calibration perspective. Having blue to high or low in grayscale relative to D65 will cause a color setting that is too saturated or not saturated enough.

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post #206 of 430 Old 02-17-2004, 07:11 PM
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But, your point is valid from a whole color calibration perspective. Having blue to high or low in gray-scale relative to D65 will cause a color setting that is too saturated or not saturated enough.

This is what I am most concerned about, synthetic blue's red's and green's look way to saturated or "hot". I tried to adjust the color-bar in DVE with both the RGBOUT setting and the color filters provided with DVE. I was satisfied with the red, and the blue, but could not for the life of me fix the green. I have applied all the tweaks posted in this forum for green, and played with seemingly every combo in the ISF (carefully though ) and I came close by tweaking the GY-PH-F and G/B - GAF settings. But this only left the greens even more out of control.
Is it really important to balance the greens in the color bars?

I have been watching a lot of material with the user menu color turned down to 38% and I think that I am happy with it. I still believe that the gray-scale is off and I don't think I am comfortable enough to try and fix it.

I pulled the following quote from somewhere on this site: (author unknown )

Quote:


Eyeballing Grayscale:

What is grayscale calibrration? Grayscale is used to calibrate the black and white in the picture. All images are created using a gray backdrop. If you unplug Pr and Pb on your DVD player, you will see a black and white image. The color decoder will then place color on top of that black and white picture. But, the gray is the foundation for your picture. The thing most people don't realize is that gray or black/white are also made of color, various levels of red/green/blue. So, by adjusting the color in the gray, you are also changing the color in your picture.

I was thinking of trying the above. Does it sound like something I could try to adjust the gray-scale of my set? If so what settings should I be addressing? cuts/drives in main service menu, or cuts/drives in ISF menu, ect...

Thanks for any and all input....

One other thing, the F's (4-F-G) in my ISF correspond to the DVI and HD Component input #1. Some others have posted that the G settings are the HD inputs, this is not the case for me. Is it different for some TV's?

Oh, almost forgot... Anyone think it could be my Sony HD300 that is giving the improper colors?

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post #207 of 430 Old 02-17-2004, 08:21 PM
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Quote:


Is it really important to balance the greens in the color bars?

You should dial in everything. However, if grayscale is incorrect, you may need to compensate.


Quote:


One other thing, the F's (4-F-G) in my ISF correspond to the DVI and HD Component input #1. Some others have posted that the G settings are the HD inputs, this is not the case for me. Is it different for some TV's?

I learned the hard way what all this meant.

DVI is F, period. No way to change it.

Compent HD is G and Component SD is F. This is assuming you have automatic selected for your color system in the user menu.

The color system has nothing to do with and HD or SD color matrix. It has confused many people. The color system menu determines which parameter suffixes are tied to scan rates inside the service menu. If I want to put DVD on G, all I have to do is select Color System HD for the input DVD is connected to. So, If I want to calibrate DVI and DVD. I will put input 2 color system on HD. Therefore DVD will use "G" instead of "F". And DVI will continue to use "F".

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post #208 of 430 Old 02-17-2004, 08:34 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by gambrelw
I learned the hard way what all this meant.

DVI is F, period. No way to change it.

Compent HD is G and Component SD is F. This is assuming you have automatic selected for your color system in the user menu.

The color system has nothing to do with and HD or SD color matrix. It has confused many people. The color system menu determines which parameter suffixes are tied to scan rates inside the service menu. If I want to put DVD on G, all I have to do is select Color System HD for the input DVD is connected to. So, If I want to calibrate DVI and DVD. I will put input 2 color system on HD. Therefore DVD will use "G" instead of "F". And DVI will continue to use "F".

Bill

I have my STB hooked up via the DVI input 1 and my DVD player via input 1 through component, while the XBOX sits on input 2 component. I have the color system set to auto and I noticed changes in both the DVD and STB picture while only adjusting the "F" settings. I did not notice any change while adjusting "G" on the DVD. Does this make sense?

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post #209 of 430 Old 02-17-2004, 08:44 PM
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I have the color system set to auto and I noticed changes in both the DVD and STB picture while only adjusting the "F" settings. I did not notice any change while adjusting "G" on the DVD. Does this make sense?

Yes, that makes sense because you are set to auto. Change input 1 to HD in the color system menu and adjust "G" for DVD.

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post #210 of 430 Old 02-18-2004, 10:24 AM
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I have been trying to get the best balance of sharpness for both DVD and Direct TV... The directTV looks like crap - no surprise - on my 57SWX20B, and I was wondering if playing with the settings below could help... What I would really like is an explanation of what each stting actually controls so that I could make informed, judicious changes, not just enter someone elses settings, as each set looks different.

Could anyone explain? I have also heard of V -ENH and H-ENH in the FLEX menu to be set to 0, but I haven't heard that one before....

Thanks for the education. OH, and I have had my set ISF calibrated, this is just followup personal preference tweaking...


Quote:


Originally posted by Marc Alexander
Ghosting on the ISF series Hitachis is a somewhat peculiar problem.

Most RPTVs have an inherent ghosting/haloing I refer to as ringing. This can be tweaked out of most Mits sets but not most other brands. Hitachis historically have not been plagued by this form of edge enhancement.

In addition to slight ringing, the ISF Hitachis actually display 3-4 ghost images to the left and right of objects. This can be quite distracting and can muddy fine detail. Luckily, the effects of this can be minimized through the ISF menu tweaks and the problem becomes virtually invisible with actual content.

Ghosting tweaks summary:

SHARP-4 20 10
SHARP-A 20 10
SHARP-B 1F 10
SHARP-9 1F 10
SHARP-E 20 10

APRTR-4 01 00 To minimize ghosting set to 00
APRTR-A 01 00 To minimize ghosting set to 00
APRTR-C 00
APRTR-E 01 00 To minimize ghosting set to 00

SRTGA-0 10 0 To minimize ghosting set to 00

Y-DTL-0 07
Y-DTL-0 will transition the ghosting from black to white. Find the optimal point for your TV.

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