Sony WS510/WS550 Owners Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 819 Old 02-11-2004, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I few folks (myself included) have been looking for tweaks, service docs, & general info on the Sony WS510 & WS550 series sets... figured I'd start a thread and see if it has legs.
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post #2 of 819 Old 02-12-2004, 06:22 AM
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I hope it does because the couple of threads I started seeking tweaks for the 51WS550 I just got went nowhere.
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post #3 of 819 Old 02-12-2004, 06:34 AM
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I'm very interested as well. Wish I had something to contribute...
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post #4 of 819 Old 02-12-2004, 10:10 AM
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I'm keeping a diary of all the tweaks I make on this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=364902

It's a bit of a read, but you can just scroll down to the bottomr of the first message. I'll be adding the tweaks as I go.
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post #5 of 819 Old 02-13-2004, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
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bump...
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post #6 of 819 Old 02-24-2004, 12:50 PM
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Really disappointing response to this thread. It's as if we're the only 2 people who own these sets.

One problem has come up - from the get-go, I've had this nagging suspicion that there was something up with the aspect ratios because I only get black bars on DVD movies wider than 1.85:1. Digital-sourced programs like Finding Nemo and Once Upon A Time In Mexico are formated 1.78:1 (or 16:9 native) and would fill the screen, but 1.85 material also fills the screen.

I made up a diagram in Photoshop showing the 16:9 outline of the screen and where 1.85 and 2.35 SHOULD line up and it doesn't seem to be happening quite right. My suspicions continued when the blue-skinned girl in Padme's entourage at the beginning of AOTC was cut off the left side of the screen, so I did a test...

At the beginning of Underworld, the Death Dealers are on top of some buildings observing the street in the rain. Water drips off Kate's hand and she looks across to the other guy who has a camera. We cut to a POV shot of what he see thru the lens and there are grid marks, etc. visible which provide some useful landmarks.

Now, I took the DVD home and looked at that shot in PowerDVD and took a screen grab with Hypersnap-DX and printed it out. Because HypeDX doesn't compensate for the animorphic mastering, it's a little smooshed, but it shows the outside edges of the frame. In the lower-left are two diagonally stacked rectangles and on the lower-right is a readout "f: AUTO". Beyond these are ground-glass corner marks and a border that runs around the frame.

On my 51WS550 being driven by a Zenith XBV342 DVD/VCR combo via component cables, the left side of the screen cuts along the left edge of the top rectangle and the right side crops the lettering down to read "f: AU". I calculate that approx. 10% of the width is getting lost. WTF?!?!?

What's the fix for this? This can't be normal, can it? HELP!!!!

Also, I poked around the Service Mode for about 10 minutes and could find the friggin' Red Push (AXIS) setting. How the hell do I set this. Step-by-step for non-tech instructions would be greatly appreciated.

TIA!
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post #7 of 819 Old 02-24-2004, 01:32 PM
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Hey Dirk, I'm seeing similar (but nowhere as drastic) overscanning on various sources, and it seems to differ depending on the zoom mode. Just like the 64 point convergence; h-pos, h-cen, v-pos, and v-cen have different values per zoom mode, which then effect the 64 point convergence.

I'm heading home soon, so I'm going to try and pick up a copy of underworld (wanted it anyway) and I have AOTC already, so I'll compare the same scenes you described above and let you know.
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post #8 of 819 Old 02-24-2004, 01:51 PM
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One thing I forgot to mention is that if you cycle thru the Zoom modes, the edges do NOT reappear. If you switch to Normal, you get the same edge cropping at the point where the grey side bars are.

Pick up Underworld from Blockbuster tonight. They're having a sale on their used stuff. It was a pretty good flick - some flaws and whatnot - but it looks good and was an honest try at livening up the werewolf and vampire genres.
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post #9 of 819 Old 02-24-2004, 01:57 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by DirkBelig
One thing I forgot to mention is that if you cycle thru the Zoom modes, the edges do NOT reappear. If you switch to Normal, you get the same edge cropping at the point where the grey side bars are.

Pick up Underworld from Blockbuster tonight. They're having a sale on their used stuff. It was a pretty good flick - some flaws and whatnot - but it looks good and was an honest try at livening up the werewolf and vampire genres.

hmm.. that almost sounds like the cropping is being done before the signal is sent. I'll try it in the xbox, then the ps2, htpc, and maybe I'll pick up a cheapie prog dvd player at the store too...
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post #10 of 819 Old 02-25-2004, 08:49 AM
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ok, I have some results for you Dirk:

I think it's something in the outout. I've been able to duplicate the issue, but only to a lesser degree.

I ended up not picking up a copy of underworld just yet, I've got a bit of a cold (am home today sick :<) and just didn't feel like going to the store on the way home.

I was, however, able to verify with AOTC that I get a slight cutoff of the left edge of the total video signal, and it differs per dvd player I used.

Using the xbox, I brought up the test patterns and in normal and full mode both, I see the missing left hand side beyond the anamorphic outer boundary. The same amount seems to be cropped in both modes.

Additionally, I brought up the same screen with my ps2 and I had just a little more removed, by about 1-2% I'd say.

I then brought up the scene you're referring to in AOTC, and on my display the blue girl is visible, albeit half cutout.

let me post the pics I took and see how they compare.
LL
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post #11 of 819 Old 02-25-2004, 08:58 AM
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here's the pic from the xbox version. I know it looks less saturated, but this is really a better picture than the ps2 puts out. (other than the blacker blacks, the ps2 seems to introduce black crush...)
LL
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post #12 of 819 Old 02-25-2004, 08:59 AM
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additionally, I took the same dvd to my other xbox on an older panasonic 32" and I got the same output as I did on the sony.
LL
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post #13 of 819 Old 02-25-2004, 09:00 AM
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left hand side of the panny, you can see how the test lines are cut off just a little.
LL
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post #14 of 819 Old 02-25-2004, 09:01 AM
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ok, and now I've got the test screen on the sony in normal mode. right hand side.
LL
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post #15 of 819 Old 02-25-2004, 09:02 AM
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ok, and now the left hand side on the sony
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post #16 of 819 Old 02-25-2004, 09:15 AM
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so, since I'm getting different results based on the player, but they are consistent across different displays, I'd say that it's something in the way the players are putting out the signal.

Since I'm getting the necessary portion of the anamorphic (and other) test patterns, I'm not too concerned about it.

Are you getting more overscan than the results I've posted?

At this point it appears that I'm losing approximate 3% of the signal on the left-hand side with the xbox, and 5% with the ps2.

Have you tried a different displays?

I can imagine the type of scene you're describing from underworld, and in that circumstance it would be weird/annoying.

BTW- if you look at that scene on your HTPC is the blue girl totally imaged in the scene, or is she cropped a little?

(right now my htpc is in pieces, and my laptop doesn't have a dvd player.
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post #17 of 819 Old 02-25-2004, 09:54 AM
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Since the TV is at my g/f's and my PC is at my home, I won't be able to post a PC capture until tomorrow night, but what you're seeing with Blue Babe is what I'm seeing. My digital camera is (of course) at home, so I can't shoot our screen to match the capture I have at home. Salma Hayek is not returning my calls either, but that's another topic...

I borrowed the Xbox DVD remote from my boss and will check UW and AOTC tonight. Also, I finally found the AXIS settings and changed those all to 1, but the g/f complained that it look to "beige and bland" and demanded I switch it back. After she left the room, I quickly raced thru everything but the Xbox and set it all to 1 - let's see if she notices.

What other setting tweaks would you recommend? I've seen your other thread, but ya got anything more? Thanks!

[edit]

According to this page:

To adjust the Overscan

Set HSIZ and VSIZ to around 11-13. Use the Avia overscan screen to get it to under 5%.


Any wisdom to this? I don't have Avia or DVE discs and could this introduce distortion?

[/edit]
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post #18 of 819 Old 02-25-2004, 11:28 AM
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I have been waiting for a thread on these sets. I got the 51WS510 in December and have been very happy with it. I keep playing with the all video settings and really keep second guessing myself. I am scared to go into the set and try the Service Menu tweaks that have been suggested.
I have DirectTV and basic SD cable for local channels. All in all the PQ is good, but I know it could be better. I wish I had a better understanding of the different picture modes; standard, movie, pro and vivid. The only advantage I have found for vivid is during the daytime as my living room is very bright and vivid is truly the best setting.
Thanks for the advice and keep it coming. I agree that it is hard to believe more don't own these sets............


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post #19 of 819 Old 02-25-2004, 12:11 PM
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Hey guys I'm another lucky owner of the 51WS550. Just wanted to chime in on how to eliminate red push. In service mode (DISP, 5, VOL+, POWER) cycle through each menu category using numbers 2 and 5 until you get to 2150P-4. Then, using numbers 1 or 4 cycle through until you get to AXIS 2150P-4 7. Once there, change the value from 0 to 1 using number 3. Save the settings using MENU + ENTER and then POWER. You must do this per input (480i, 480p, 1080i.) Once done, you should have a near perfect picture. Pretty spiffy huh?

James
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post #20 of 819 Old 02-25-2004, 02:17 PM
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Yeah, but it's even spiffier when you press MUTING then ENTER to write the values into memory.

Also, you have to write each resolution before switching to another input - i.e. 1080i content, save, switch to 720p station, save, 480i thing, save, rinse, repeat.
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post #21 of 819 Old 02-26-2004, 05:22 AM
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With the Xbox running thru the hi-def AV cables, the left side of the Underworld frame is unchanged, but the right side now shows "f: AUT", a pickup of one whole letter, but at the cost of a ugly, contrasty 480i picture with dark grey letterbox bars. Still no sign of the whole frame. (UW on a NP GoVideo combo deck and 38" round CRT Toshiba cuts off even more, only showing "f: A".)

Reran the THX optimizer on the AXIS adjusted set and now flesh tones look too flat and seem to have a yellowish cast on some sources and reds, which never really bloomed to my eye, not seem flatter than normal. Hmmm...

Is there a listing somewhere of what the Service Mode settings are and how to access them? There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to how things are grouped, leaving me scrolling forever to find the stinkin' AXIS menu to set for the Xbox games and I never did locate HSIZ. Grrrr....would a logical setup have been so difficult?!?
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post #22 of 819 Old 02-26-2004, 08:24 AM
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Glad I found this thread. I currently has a Sony HS10 and I am looking

and researching the WS 510 and 550 in the 57 or 65 inch model. I sit

15 feet from the screen in a dark basement. Atlantic Tech. 170 speaker

sys. Sony 985 receiver. Toahiba DST 3000 STB. Any opinions about the

510 vs. the 550 would be nice.

Thanks,
Mikel
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post #23 of 819 Old 02-26-2004, 08:43 AM
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This thread - Initial Sony KDP-51WS550 Review (long...) - was what prompted me to pull the trigger on my purchase of the same set (plus an unbeatable bargain I got for it!) and does a nice job of listing the differences, as the author says, "Long post in a nutshell is that the WS550 seems to be more than just a WS510 with a tuner and anti glare screen."

I PMed the author, but it appears that he either isn't receiving them or no longer participates here. Darn, cuz he had a lot of good tidbits, but I wanted more specifics on tweakage.
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post #24 of 819 Old 02-26-2004, 10:04 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by DirkBelig
To adjust the Overscan

Set HSIZ and VSIZ to around 11-13. Use the Avia overscan screen to get it to under 5%.


Any wisdom to this? I don't have Avia or DVE discs and could this introduce distortion?

[/edit]

Yeah, I've done that a little bit. I also had to adjust the hcen and vcen as a result (center value) and then I had to redo the 64 point convergence for each zoom mode.

REgarding the g/f factor on reducing the red push, keep in mind that the xbox doesn't seem to be the best of dvd players. It seems better than the ps2, but I would make your color adjustmens using an OTA hdtv signal if at all possible, because at that point you're really calibrating the set using 0 D/A conversions.

Also, the menu item bblk (I think, I'll confirm in a little bit) under the MID2 menu changes the grey bars to black or white. It's a 0-15 scale, and I think the default is 5.

If you want to change your grey bars to black you can, but beware of the burninator. I've got mine at the default, still trying to decide if I like it that way or what.
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post #25 of 819 Old 02-26-2004, 10:10 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by DirkBelig

...
Reran the THX optimizer on the AXIS adjusted set and now flesh tones look too flat and seem to have a yellowish cast on some sources and reds, which never really bloomed to my eye, not seem flatter than normal. Hmmm...

That's why I reduced my green push too. You can see the differece that different dvd players make in the picture though, the PS2 is way to oversaturated. the xbox looks okay. Lots of details, but not so great blacks.

I just have to get htpc together before I'll be really happy, I guess...

Quote:


Is there a listing somewhere of what the Service Mode settings are and how to access them? There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to how things are grouped, leaving me scrolling forever to find the stinkin' AXIS menu to set for the Xbox games and I never did locate HSIZ. Grrrr....would a logical setup have been so difficult?!?

I wish. That's kinda why we're here though, right? There's a listing in the service manuals, but they cost ~$70 from sony.
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post #26 of 819 Old 02-26-2004, 02:13 PM
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I'm not sure why you sound like I'm using the Xbox as a DVD player when mentioning red push on Leno, but hokay....

On your other thread, you mention:

COLR
AXIS: 0 - 1 (reduced 'red push'). Had to make it in all modes
R-GR: 8 - 14 (evened out the reds a little)
G-YR: 6 - 8 (evened out the greens a little)


Are the last two settings global or per input, like AXIS? (I'm hoping for global.)

What would be a some good DVDs to check color accuracy. So many of today's films go thru a digital intermediate step to drastically smack the colors around, it's impossible to judge with stuff like LOTR (either) or Gone In 60 Seconds or Underworld. Post or PM me. Thanks!
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post #27 of 819 Old 02-26-2004, 03:15 PM
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The last two settings, R-GR and G-YR are global. Any inexpensive DVD player will be better than either an X-Box or a PS2. I have an X-Box and a PS2 as well, and neither is any good as a DVD player. I would rate the PS a zero out of ten and the X-Box a one out of ten.

If you use an X-Box or a PS2 as the source for setting R-GR, G-YR and the basic picture settings, be prepared to do it again once you get a device capable of reasonable output. The frequency response curve on those two pieces of crap is so bad, it throws the color balance off by a wide margin.

In addition there are component delay problems between the colors that smear everything with either of these two devices.
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post #28 of 819 Old 02-26-2004, 03:49 PM
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Thought you guys might find some use out of this

I don't know if this tweak guide is common knowledge, but I didn't see any mention of it so I thought I'd post it.

I personally did all the suggested tweaks to my KP57WS510 that didn't involve physically opening up the set and saw a noticeable improvement in picture quality even with my newbie eyes.

I still can't see any convergence errors on the set when I look at the convergence setting in the service menu. Maybe my eyes are just untrained... or is it that the Sony CRTs well-converged out of the box?

Chris

Chris

Michigan... Respect the Maize and Blue
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post #29 of 819 Old 02-26-2004, 09:22 PM
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Can someone tell me if the built-in tuner for the WS550 recieves unscrambled digital cable or does it only handle OTA?
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post #30 of 819 Old 02-27-2004, 05:25 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by uzun
Any inexpensive DVD player will be better than either an X-Box or a PS2. I have an X-Box and a PS2 as well, and neither is any good as a DVD player. I would rate the PS a zero out of ten and the X-Box a one out of ten.

If you use an X-Box or a PS2 as the source for setting R-GR, G-YR and the basic picture settings, be prepared to do it again once you get a device capable of reasonable output. The frequency response curve on those two pieces of crap is so bad, it throws the color balance off by a wide margin.

So we don't expend any more time on the "Xbox as DVD source" (non-)issue, let me restate what I posted initially:

On my 51WS550 being driven by a Zenith XBV342 DVD/VCR combo via component cables,

The only reason I tried the Xbox was to see if there was an issue with the Zenith player being the problem. The NP GoVideo that we had at first had the left side of the THX 16:9 box off the left side and seeing that switching Underworld to the Xbox revealed a bit more of the right side indicates that mileage varies according to the source hardware, but why, I guess, is that happening?

Watching TV last night, the yellow skin tones really bugged me, but when I backed the hue setting down a bit, the cast of "Friends" started looking rather magenta-ish, so I had to bump hue and color up a notch and it looked OK. DSS stuff looked a tad iffy, but "CSI" (OTA HD) looked really good. When "ER" came on (also HD), I looked at it on the other TV (the 38" regular Toshiba) in the house and thought it looked bright like a TV show. Returning to the Sony, the picture looked darker, but more "movie-like". Weird.

As I've mentioned before (may've been another thread), this is my first experience with big-screen, RP and HD televisions and it's been weirding me out somewhat. A friend told me that I was gonna have to get used to it, cuz it's not the same. I guess so - but, I'd like it right, ya know?
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