Pioneer Elite Pro-510 problem - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 2939 Old 02-18-2006, 08:33 AM
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Yet another success story here about repairing my Elite 510. I was an early adopter of this set and bought it as soon as it came out.

I started having the blue flash on Super Bowl Sunday. I missed about 1/4 of the game searching on this forum to see if anyone else had this problem. Finding this thread was really helpful. After a while the blue flash would become mostly permanent, making the picture really bright and annoying. Especially since I had this set ISF'd a few years ago.

I resoldered the power supply board the next Saturday. It took about an hour just of soldering. About 1/4 of the board was pretty much all cold solder joints, most around the IC's and connectors, and it took a lot of patience to resolder the connectors. Small connectors needed lower wattage, and higher connectors needed high wattage. I kept having to turn up and down the power on my iron.

I am happy to report that I have been running the TV for a week now, no more blue flashes!

Thanks to everyone on this forum who figured this out!
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post #362 of 2939 Old 03-02-2006, 07:36 AM
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Just reporting in that it has been over six weeks since soldering some bad joints on the PS board. Still working perfectly!!

Kudos to the AVS forum members!!

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post #363 of 2939 Old 03-02-2006, 08:13 AM
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I'm at 9 weeks now, with no flashes.
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post #364 of 2939 Old 03-02-2006, 09:01 AM
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I am having the problem on my Elite 710HD as well. I am so happy that I found this thread.

BUT - -

I do not feel comfortable resoldering the joints and I have called all the electronics repair places in my local area to try and find someone to resolder the joints for me to no avail. Basically they all want to come out to my house and do a full diagnosis. The last thing I want it to get into a pissing contest with a repair guy because I feel that resoldering the joints is all I need and they want to replace expensive parts. They all charge a fee to come out to the house as well.

Any ideas?!?! We are at a point where we sometimes just shut the set off because of this. Should I just but a new board and install it myself? I hate to spend the extra money but I am running out of options.

Jason
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post #365 of 2939 Old 03-02-2006, 09:43 AM
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Jason, they're probably hesitant when you call up and explain it as a TV repair job. Rather than treat it like that, maybe you could just remove the board and take it to a repair place on its own.

Ask them if they could just resolder joints on the board per your instructions, especially focusing on the IC's in the corner (the E2, etc. ones) and any "cold solder" joints that appear dull. They don't even have to know what this board is from, just do the soldering job, with no guarantees or liability.

Unplug the set, open up the back and carefully remove the PS board per the instructions earlier in this thread. All that involves is taking out several screws. Then reverse the process to reinstall the repaired board.

If you can't find anybody to do this, you should really think about giving it a try. I had reservations too, but after reading the advice here and a little practice it wasn't so bad. And I figured if I really messed it up (which I didn't) the worst that could happen would be I need to buy a new board to install.
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post #366 of 2939 Old 03-02-2006, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnoel View Post

I am having the problem on my Elite 710HD as well. I am so happy that I found this thread.

BUT - -

I do not feel comfortable resoldering the joints and I have called all the electronics repair places in my local area to try and find someone to resolder the joints for me to no avail. Basically they all want to come out to my house and do a full diagnosis. The last thing I want it to get into a pissing contest with a repair guy because I feel that resoldering the joints is all I need and they want to replace expensive parts. They all charge a fee to come out to the house as well.

Any ideas?!?! We are at a point where we sometimes just shut the set off because of this. Should I just but a new board and install it myself? I hate to spend the extra money but I am running out of options.


Taking it just anywhere could get you into trouble, and doing it when you are not real experienced with such things could also, as well. One guy from this thread tried that and the tech he used messed it up worse than it had been, didn't work at all after that. He approached me and I got him a new board sent out from Pioneer, which cured his problem.

If you send the board to me, I will use the same care, custody and control that I use in every Pioneer repair job I do out in the field, and I have repaired literally tons - dozens and dozens and dozens - of Pioneers over the years with these problems. I have the eye for cold solder joints, and the intuition and experience to know where cold solder joints might be that aren't visible to the naked eye, no matter how well assisted with magnification. I have been a repair tech for big screens - all brands - for well over 20 years.

I don't have a 510 here to try it out on, so if you send it to me I will do the job to the best of my ability and return it to you for you to take it from there. I will assume you will have marked all connections appropriately so you don't get any of them wrong when you plug everything back in, and I won't change any of the settings on any trimpots on the board, which some techs like to diddle with, unauthorized by the owner.

If for some reason it doesn't work you can send it back to me and I'll go over it again, for no extra charge. But the charge made for resoldering it will have to be absolute and nonrefundable. If for some reason it doesn't work when you put it back in the unit, I will expect that there's something else wrong with the set.

The only exception would be this: if when you get it back the set doesn't work and the same board gets replaced and the unit works then, and therefore it appears I was not able to save the board despite my best efforts, I'll refund your repair labor money. (Shipping would not be refunded.) This has not happened yet, on any of the repairs I have done with these Pioneers over the years, but I am willing to entertain that it potentially could.

Let me know if you would like to send it my way.


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post #367 of 2939 Old 03-03-2006, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Yes. In total agreement with that assessment of the situation.


Mr Bob

I am Liquidpen's roommate. I am an automotive service tech and race car builder with electronics and soldering experience. I feel with a service manual with schematics and a diagnostic flowchart, I'd be able to figure this out. Do you know how I'd go about ordering the Pioneer service manuals for the 610?
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post #368 of 2939 Old 03-03-2006, 06:57 AM
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Just a note, I emailed this problem to a reputable magazine asking them to take a look into the problem. They recently review some of Pioneer's products, and I proposed that they owe it to their readers to protect them from manufacturers who don't take responsibility for their product. I still haven't heard anything from them, so fingers crossed.
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post #369 of 2939 Old 03-03-2006, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMS Eric #2 View Post

I am Liquidpen's roommate. I am an automotive service tech and race car builder with electronics and soldering experience. I feel with a service manual with schematics and a diagnostic flowchart, I'd be able to figure this out. Do you know how I'd go about ordering the Pioneer service manuals for the 610?

Order from here.

http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/


But unless you have some experience with TV repairs, then the limited flowcharts in those manuals may not be enough to help you.
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post #370 of 2939 Old 03-04-2006, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMS Eric #2 View Post

I am Liquidpen's roommate. I am an automotive service tech and race car builder with electronics and soldering experience. I feel with a service manual with schematics and a diagnostic flowchart, I'd be able to figure this out.


I am sure you'd be able to successfully tackle the standard problem this thread is all about. But I still think Liquidpen's unit has deeper problems than this thread deals with. Personally I would not start to tackle it unless I already had the manual in hand when I called Pioneer - they only RETURN calls and won't do so unless you have stated that you have the service manual on that model - and I am sure I would call Pioneer for help on this kind of a problem. Last time I did, they clued me in on what the various red LEDs in there meant, when and if each lit up. Don't remember seeing that in the service manual.

Knock yourself out, but be sure not to do anything to damage the set further, or it will cost bundles more to fix once a qualified tech has been finally called onto the scene. If you don't know how to not damage it further - much less keep yourself safe - thru hands-on experience with CRT bigscreens that use 30KV high voltage - picture grabbing a disconnected coil wire on a race car, to keep this all in perspective - I would not recommend proceeding any further on this but instead to let a qualified service repair tech take over.


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post #371 of 2939 Old 03-04-2006, 09:12 AM
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You guys wouldn't by chance know of someone in the Chicago area with repair and imaging knowledge like Mr. Bob has?
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post #372 of 2939 Old 03-04-2006, 03:38 PM
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Has a nyone else experienced the buzzing on high contrast screens? And, how does one reset the the screen vr's on these sets?

Thanks for any help.

Regards, Tom
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post #373 of 2939 Old 03-04-2006, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamas View Post

Has a nyone else experienced the buzzing on high contrast screens? And, how does one reset the the screen vr's on these sets?

Thanks for any help.

Regards, Tom

Yup - I do. I was once able to minimize it after calibration, but I still get it. I have no idea what causes the problem.
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post #374 of 2939 Old 03-05-2006, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamas View Post

Has a nyone else experienced the buzzing on high contrast screens? And, how does one reset the the screen vr's on these sets?

Thanks for any help.

Regards, Tom


Buzzing on high contrast scenes is a common phenom on CRT based RPTVs. I am currently working on calibrating a Barco 812 - 12" guns, 10" highly curved lenses! its electronics are in a separate huge box just as big as the box the CRTs are in! - and it does the same thing. Power supplies are driven much harder on high light level scenes.

Try turning down your contrast, might help. This buzzing also can creep into your TV's audio circuit, so using only outboard audio might alleviate the problem.


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post #375 of 2939 Old 03-08-2006, 02:04 PM
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OK -

Looks like you can add me to the list of folks that had there set fixed by resoldering the power board.

At least so far - about 5 hours of viewing. However I immediately noticed better contrast after installing the repaired board.

Jason
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post #376 of 2939 Old 03-09-2006, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnoel View Post

I immediately noticed better contrast after installing the repaired board.


Try cleaning your optics. You'll get even better contrast AND brightness. After as many years as it takes for solder joints in there to go to cold solder status, the build-up on your optics - of dust, smoke and everything else in the air statically drawn to the optics by the HV inherent in CRT use - will be substantial. (understatement, to say the least...)

Check out the specifics in the Nuts and Bolts section of my website.


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post #377 of 2939 Old 03-09-2006, 06:27 AM
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Mr Bob -

I hear you on cleaning the optics. But I assume you are refering to more than just the top of the CRT's correct?

Jason
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post #378 of 2939 Old 03-09-2006, 06:33 AM
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i havent' fixed my soldering issues yet on the power board but two months ago i decided to pull off the front seciton of 710 and was amazed how empty it was inside there..the huge mirror looked spotless but i noticed the tops of the 3 guns (is that what you guys are calling optics?) looked dusty. I cleaned to tops of the 3 guns and put it all back together as there did nto seem to be much else to do in there...when i got it back together I was floored that my set showed blacks again. It seemed like since I got it that I had more of a dingy black but cleanign those put the blacks back to black and it was like a new set again,,other than some days when it pops and puts that brightness for a while (due that the issue on this thread)...
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post #379 of 2939 Old 03-09-2006, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnoel View Post

Mr Bob -

I hear you on cleaning the optics. But I assume you are refering to more than just the top of the CRT's correct?


Tops of lenses, mirror, and possibly the deeper optics down below the lenses at the coolant covers and the rears of the lenses, once you have cleaned the tops of the lenses. You won't know about the deeper optics till the general optics are clean.

The CRT faces are not available for cleaning. They are under the coolant covers, which are lenses as well and optically bond all the lenses in the stack together. The coolant has a history of getting contaminated on certain brands, but Pio is not one of them.


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post #380 of 2939 Old 03-09-2006, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keithaxis View Post

i havent' fixed my soldering issues yet on the power board but two months ago i decided to pull off the front seciton of 710 and was amazed how empty it was inside there..the huge mirror looked spotless but i noticed the tops of the 3 guns (is that what you guys are calling optics?) looked dusty. I cleaned to tops of the 3 guns and put it all back together as there did nto seem to be much else to do in there...when i got it back together I was floored that my set showed blacks again. It seemed like since I got it that I had more of a dingy black but cleanign those put the blacks back to black and it was like a new set again,,other than some days when it pops and puts that brightness for a while (due that the issue on this thread)...

Yeah, it's amazing, isn't it?!

This is one of the primary tools I have used for more than 20 years to maintain my promise of keeping your set looking "better than new" for 10 years and beyond under videophile viewing conditions, with Image Perfection calibrations. I "Pioneered" it, if you'll forgive the pun...

The HV inherent in CRT use causes the optics to become voracious dust magnets. After years of use they are literally coated with stuff they have sucked onto themselves. Mirror too, tho glass mirrors only. Mylar mirrors don't attract dust like glass does.


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post #381 of 2939 Old 03-09-2006, 03:36 PM
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I am the proud owner of a flashing blue screen of death Pioneer PRO-510HD!

Does anyone has a picture of what this power supply looks like or is it obvious?
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post #382 of 2939 Old 03-09-2006, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Tlong70 View Post

I am the proud owner of a flashing blue screen of death Pioneer PRO-510HD!

Does anyone has a picture of what this power supply looks like or is it obvious?

I believe it is the only vertically placed board on the right side of the unit as you're looking in from the back, with the back off.


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post #383 of 2939 Old 03-09-2006, 11:39 PM
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This very helpful link was provided earlier in this thread.

I recommend carefully reading the other many helpful posts above with good advice on exactly how to proceed.
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post #384 of 2939 Old 03-10-2006, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

I believe it is the only vertically placed board on the right side of the unit as you're looking in from the back, with the back off.

Just want to add a VERY important warning, to anyone that is contemplating removing the back cover.

Just make sure that you ONLY remove the lower part of the the back cover!

And do NOT try to defeat the tamper proof/lock screws to remove the upper part where the mirror is located! Because if you do, you will most likely also destroy the front screen when the mirror falls out and hits it, and you very possibly will also destroy the mirror itself!

There really is just no reason to ever even mess with that upper cover anyway.
And that is why you will see tamper proof/lock type screws on it.
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post #385 of 2939 Old 03-10-2006, 08:24 AM
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Thank you for the help everyone. I will be trying the repair this weekend. Any specific advise on what solder and iron to use ?
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post #386 of 2939 Old 03-11-2006, 08:26 AM
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I re-soldered the E3 connectors only and so far no more problems. I am now enjoying my TV once again.
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post #387 of 2939 Old 03-16-2006, 01:53 PM
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I didn't have the blue flash problem but the shutdown problem on my SD-582HD5 a couple of weeks ago. After a few hours of TV, the unit would shutdown accompanied w/ a popping sound. The problem has gotten progressivley worse to where it would shut down after less than an hour. After numerous Googling about this problem, I ran into this forum. Thank GOD!
I resoldered the E3 and E5 connectors but w/ no success. You definitely need a magnifying glass or a microscope to really do a good job. Being the a lazy ass, I ordered a new power supply board for my unit today from Pioneer. Cost is $281.55 + 100 core charge which is refundable after they receive my original board. I asked Pioneer if this was a new board and she said that they are refurbished boards w/ a 90 day waranty. Maybe I should just keep my original board as back-up and have my co-worker resolder it for me since he's a pro at this. I'll let you guys know if the new supply board will fix this problem.

:)
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post #388 of 2939 Old 03-16-2006, 11:45 PM
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kegels,
You have the problem we have. Please let us know an answer as soon as you get that bad boy.
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post #389 of 2939 Old 03-17-2006, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

Just want to add a VERY important warning, to anyone that is contemplating removing the back cover.

Just make sure that you ONLY remove the lower part of the the back cover!

And do NOT try to defeat the tamper proof/lock screws to remove the upper part where the mirror is located! Because if you do, you will most likely also destroy the front screen when the mirror falls out and hits it, and you very possibly will also destroy the mirror itself!

There really is just no reason to ever even mess with that upper cover anyway.
And that is why you will see tamper proof/lock type screws on it.


Cool!

That's exactly the same message I put out to the net on Pioneer Elites around 7 years ago, just before the advent of their HDreadys, about their then current crop. I personally did defeat the screws and the mirror slipped out of its slot up above and I was lucky as hell, but was later called upon by a guy who was not so lucky. We had to replace his broken mirror and his thoroughly scarred-up fresnel, the screen layer that faces the mirror, when the mirror had of course slipped out of its moorings at the top of the unit and nose-dived straight into the fresnel.

He was NOT a happy camper!

NEVER REMOVE THE BACK OF THE OPTICAL CAVITY ON A PIONEER ELITE. GO IN FROM THE FRONT ONLY, BY REMOVING THE SCREEN. The top of the mirror slots into the non-moving framework of the TV's chassis itself, NON-MOVABLE, while the bottom of the mirror slots into the REMOVABLE rear plastic piece. You start to separate them, and viola! They come apart! The mirror slips out from up above and is suddenly in freefall, slanted towards the screen and pivoting on the plastic piece in your hands.


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post #390 of 2939 Old 03-18-2006, 07:36 AM
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Hi All, well time flys by fast, I first read this post in Jan and while skeptical I performed the resoldering on my 510. It has now been couple with out a single flash (compared to once every few days), picture is very stable I think it's even a little brighter !

A big thanks to all (and Mr Bob) who contribute to this thread.
here and
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