Pioneer Elite Pro-510 problem - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 2939 Old 06-19-2006, 05:54 PM
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Thanks Bob. I really appreciate it. Is there any chance you're going to be in Central Florida anytime soon? I'd love to have you by to give my TV a tune up! Which reminds me, I need to update my location in my profile...

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post #452 of 2939 Old 06-19-2006, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Bunge View Post

Thanks Bob. I really appreciate it. Is there any chance you're going to be in Central Florida anytime soon? I'd love to have you by to give my TV a tune up! Which reminds me, I need to update my location in my profile...

Me too, maybe we have a few more Central FL. users that need a tune-up.
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post #453 of 2939 Old 06-20-2006, 07:34 AM
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Me too, maybe we have a few more Central FL. users that need a tune-up.


I go where I am summoned, by my peers. Set it up and I will come.

With enough participants, the share of the travel expenses for each gets diminished to amounts that are highly affordable for anybody. Just getting optics cleaning gigs together for me to do while there increases the numbers dramatically, even if only a few fullscale calibrations get done. I can do half a dozen optics cleanings in a day, and half a dozen more participants lowers the expenses for each to mere pennies on the dollar.

I would love to come to Florida and set each of you guys up for the next few years of viewing on your classic, irreplaceable sets, the more the merrier. CRT RPTVs are going out fast - both Hitachi and Pioneer have already disco'd them - and we are some of the few diehards left who realize they truly still have the best picture possible. They will have to pry my Panny year 2000 65" CRT RPTV out of my cold dead hands.

Feel free to honor that by having me down. I fly out of OAK.


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post #454 of 2939 Old 06-20-2006, 06:46 PM
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Bob,

Well, at this point I'll have to assume the issue is one of the component inputs on my Sherwood Newcastle receiver. I've been watching Jar Head on DVD and even with the really bright desert scenes I am not having any issues with the TV. Both the DVD player and cable box route through the receiver with a single set of component cables going to input 1 on the TV. So I'd have to say that the receiver is at fault. I'll run both the DVD player and cable box directly to the TV like they used to be setup before I had a receiver with component inputs and see if that fixes the problem.

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post #455 of 2939 Old 06-22-2006, 03:57 PM
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OK, I took the receiver out of the loop by running component cables directly from the DVD player and cable box to inputs 1 and 2 respectively on the TV. The problem is gone!!! So now my TV is working fine. All that's left is to work on convergence and I'm sure geometry could use some work as well.

Thanks again guys!

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post #456 of 2939 Old 06-22-2006, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Bunge View Post

OK, I took the receiver out of the loop by running component cables directly from the DVD player and cable box to inputs 1 and 2 respectively on the TV. The problem is gone!!! So now my TV is working fine. All that's left is to work on convergence and I'm sure geometry could use some work as well.

Thanks again guys!


Are you sure you didn't have one of the component cables being loose, in all the connections involved in having an AV receiver doing the switching? That's all it takes to throw the whole color paradigm off.


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post #457 of 2939 Old 06-22-2006, 07:21 PM
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Well, the receiver was in the loop with 2 different cable boxes and two different sets of cables between the cable boxes so I'm pretty sure that there was not a loose connection there. I use relatively nice cables made from Belden coax with a stranded copper center conductor and Canare True 75 ohm RCA's so there should not be an issue on that front either. These are pretty much industry standards for use in broadcast video.

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post #458 of 2939 Old 06-23-2006, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Bunge View Post

Well, the receiver was in the loop with 2 different cable boxes and two different sets of cables between the cable boxes so I'm pretty sure that there was not a loose connection there. I use relatively nice cables made from Belden coax with a stranded copper center conductor and Canare True 75 ohm RCA's so there should not be an issue on that front either. These are pretty much industry standards for use in broadcast video.


Cool.

Now if you HU your AV receiver again and find that the problem returns, you'll KNOW it was what was at fault.

Or you can just get it repaired or replaced and be done with it.

Sounds like you know your stuff. Great choices.



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post #459 of 2939 Old 06-25-2006, 03:10 PM
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I have a 510 that I was just about to replace when I found this thread. Thank you to everyone for all this great info... the solder fix seems to have solved the problem.

I would like to follow Mr Bob's advice and clean the lenses, but I can't figure out how to remove the screen. Any hints would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again!
Bob
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post #460 of 2939 Old 06-26-2006, 09:34 PM
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I am extremely happy to have found this thread. Thank you all for posting on this issue and all the good responses. Seems like a number of Elite RPTV owners have been able to fix the flash and shut down issue by re-sodering PS cold solders. Before I proceed with that I like to get advice as to whether you all think my symptoms are the same. My Pro-610HD occasionally shuts down with a big crackling sound. Then I have to power it off with the master power and wait a few minutes before turning it on. Just before the shut down the screen goes to grey with faded horizontal red lines for half a second then shuts down.
Sometime this happens a few times a day and sometimes 3 or 4 days go without a shut down.
I called a local Pioneer service man but when he was at my home the TV was working normally. So he said he could not fix a problem he does not see!

Do you think it is the power supply cold solder problem? Any help will be greatly appreciated.
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post #461 of 2939 Old 06-27-2006, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mo-man View Post

I am extremely happy to have found this thread. Thank you all for posting on this issue and all the good responses. Seems like a number of Elite RPTV owners have been able to fix the flash and shut down issue by re-sodering PS cold solders. Before I proceed with that I like to get advice as to whether you all think my symptoms are the same. My Pro-610HD occasionally shuts down with a big crackling sound. Then I have to power it off with the master power and wait a few minutes before turning it on. Just before the shut down the screen goes to grey with faded horizontal red lines for half a second then shuts down.
Sometime this happens a few times a day and sometimes 3 or 4 days go without a shut down.
I called a local Pioneer service man but when he was at my home the TV was working normally. So he said he could not fix a problem he does not see!

Do you think it is the power supply cold solder problem? Any help will be greatly appreciated.


Yes. Retrace lines on your red could very easily be overmodulation of the red, usually caused by turning the screen control up too high, but possibly caused by the PS board sending too much energy where it does not belong.

Do the resolder fix, or have it done. It needs to be done anyway on all of this series. If not now, then later.

Cold solder joints are like dental work - neither will ever get better on its own.


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post #462 of 2939 Old 06-27-2006, 02:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTUM5 View Post

I have a 510 that I was just about to replace when I found this thread. Thank you to everyone for all this great info... the solder fix seems to have solved the problem.

I would like to follow Mr Bob's advice and clean the lenses, but I can't figure out how to remove the screen. Any hints would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again!
Bob


The frame comes off with 4 big Philips screws removed from under the frame, accessed by removing the speaker grill cover and the plastic frontal facia side pieces. Fabric covered grill cover is very hard to get off, but keep pulling and it will give.

Then loosen the screws that hold the plates that hold the screen on. Upper left plate will have one screw not in a slot. Remove it and put it where the screws are on each of the others so that it will be slotted as well.


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post #463 of 2939 Old 06-28-2006, 05:48 AM
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I'm interested in putting together enough folks wanting service on their Elites in the Southeast to justify a trip by Bob. Anyone in the Atlanta area and Southeast in general that is also interested
in having their Elites (or other hd's I guess) cleaned, recalibrated, etc. Please let me know 7063387720

Roger
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post #464 of 2939 Old 06-28-2006, 08:31 AM
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Thanks for the response Bob.
I will work on the PS board and report the result.
Could red retrace lines be caused by higher than average brightness setting? I think I have the brightness set at the higher end due to general darkness of the screen.
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post #465 of 2939 Old 06-28-2006, 01:40 PM
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I would be interested in having my elite 710 cleaned also. Live in Tampa, FL. I would split costs with 5+ others if per person cost was reasonable.

Have owned since 01/2001. Back in 5/04 had shut off problem, red diode showing on power supply board. Had 5 year warranty so sound avice/tweeter tech replaced power supply board at no charge. Power worked fine after replacement. Board back then was 264.00.

Last week same problem occured. Did not see this thread until today. Ordered another board from pioneer directly. Cost is now 299.00. Board should arrive in 2 days. Same symptoms as 2 years ago. Are you saying I could have soldered certain points on the power supply board, not needing to purchase a reconditioned board?

If a trip to southeast ever comes about shoot me an email at sunlover2@earthlink.net. Tim.
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post #466 of 2939 Old 06-28-2006, 03:05 PM
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Does anyone know where I can buy a remote for PRO-X10HD series other than Pioneer itself? I am so mad at Pioneer over this issue I do not want to buy anything from them.
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post #467 of 2939 Old 06-28-2006, 07:42 PM
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Does anyone know where I can buy a remote for PRO-X10HD series other than Pioneer itself? I am so mad at Pioneer over this issue I do not want to buy anything from them.

Yeah National Parts Supply, but at $183 you may want to buy it direct from Pioneer. Because Pioneer only wants $129. THe other place is PartStore, they are $132. Which is still more than direct from Pioneer, but also a lot less than National Parts Supply. Personaly, I'd buy it direct from Pioneer, because they are cheaper and no matter who you buy it from, they still make money off of it anyway.


https://www.nationalpartsupply.us/shop/nps/

http://www.partstore.com/ProductDeta...oductType=ACCS

http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/...uctNum=AXD1448
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post #468 of 2939 Old 06-30-2006, 12:12 AM
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I can added to the list of people who have had problems with their Pioneer elite and the flahsing/powering down probelm. It's my first post here, but I have spent alot of time reading about it. I am a member of a number of other fourms such as fullsizechevy, Z71tahoe-suburban, 2doortech , and ls1tech. I completed the re-soldering procedure a few hours ago and have since not had any problems! Thank you everyone! I have a 710HD which was manufactured in June of 2000, S/N UFPM001400UC. I am very relieved that there is a solution and I will soon be persuing getting the guns and screen cleaned, as well as being calibrated. Thank you for all your help,

Ed

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post #469 of 2939 Old 06-30-2006, 12:31 AM
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By the way, the picture does seem to be more clear.

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post #470 of 2939 Old 07-03-2006, 05:43 AM
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I've had the blue flash issue for a while, so I pulled the (610's) board out and want to bring it somwhere.

Anyone know of a reputable shop I can contact in the Lehigh PA area to do the job?

Thanks!
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post #471 of 2939 Old 07-03-2006, 09:27 AM
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Add me to the list of successes for the PS board soldering procedure. I found the cracked solder points on E3 connector. Soldered them back. And since then after about 20 hrs of TV operation there has been no problem.

Thanks to everyone that shared their problems and the solution.
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post #472 of 2939 Old 07-03-2006, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mo-man View Post

Thanks for the response Bob.
I will work on the PS board and report the result.
Could red retrace lines be caused by higher than average brightness setting? I think I have the brightness set at the higher end due to general darkness of the screen.


Red retrace lines are typically caused by the red screen trimpot being set too high, the trimpots being very elemental and basic settings, which are set early on in the factory setup process. The trimpots establish a range within which the brightness control - and in this case where the red cutoff - work, which is in another, and different, part of the circuitry. The part controlled by the settings in the eeproms, deep within the signal circuitry.

If red is the only color where retrace lines are showing up, it could be that the entire overall screen potential is being affected by something on the power board, and red is simply the trimpot that is currently set highest. If you look hard you might see the blue or green retrace lines in the background.

Assuming the trimpots have been set up correctly - and Pioneer always sets them up correctly at the factory, you should never need to change them - brightness can be properly set either by user controls or in the sm. In a calibration, the sm brt controls will be set to that on ideal program materials, the user brt will be midpointed.


Even with ideal calibration settings in sm, I still notch the user brt down 5 clicks on Leno every weeknight, because their HD cams on his show are set to average everything, which makes the background on his monologue too filled in. It should be dark back there behind him during his monologue, hard to see - not easily apparent, which is where they run their brightness settings on his show.


Are your optics clean? Anyone who owns a 510, 610 or 710 should have had their optics professionally cleaned at least 2 or 3 times by now. If not, you are struggling to see detail in dark areas, and any bright object against a black background will have a haze around it.

Your brt settings might be just fine at midpoint after your optics are truly clean, and usually on this series that also involves the deeper optics cleaning, down to the CRT coolant covers and the backs of the removable lenses. 2 additional surfaces/CRT, that nearly doubles the number of surfaces cleaned, if the deeper optics cleaning is elected during one of my calibrations.


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post #473 of 2939 Old 07-03-2006, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunlover View Post

I would be interested in having my elite 710 cleaned also. Live in Tampa, FL. I would split costs with 5+ others if per person cost was reasonable.

Hope a cal trip with me traveling down yonder to you folks happens for you. You have no idea how screamin' good these x10 series of Elites are capable of looking!

Quote:


Have owned since 01/2001. Back in 5/04 had shut off problem, red diode showing on power supply board. Had 5 year warranty so sound avice/tweeter tech replaced power supply board at no charge. Power worked fine after replacement. Board back then was 264.00.

Last week same problem occured. Did not see this thread until today. Ordered another board from pioneer directly. Cost is now 299.00. Board should arrive in 2 days. Same symptoms as 2 years ago. Are you saying I could have soldered certain points on the power supply board, not needing to purchase a reconditioned board?

YES! You can still refuse delivery and get your money back, and do the soldering yourself. You've already plunked out a bundle once, unnecessarily. Don't do it again!


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post #474 of 2939 Old 07-03-2006, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Tillman View Post

I've had the blue flash issue for a while, so I pulled the (610's) board out and want to bring it somwhere.

Anyone know of a reputable shop I can contact in the Lehigh PA area to do the job?

Thanks!


Send it to me. I'll take care of it. I won't stop with the E connectors either. I will fully troubleshoot the board for cold solder joints everywhere they might be, with 20+ years of experience in such things behind me.

Just did one the other day, and after repair and calibration, the customer was completely jazzed about the incredible new pic he will now get to enjoy for the next 5 years.


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post #475 of 2939 Old 07-03-2006, 03:17 PM
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Thanks Mr Bob I do in fact see the the blue and green retrace lines as well. I planned to have my optics cleaned after this power shut down issue is resolved. I resoldered what seemed like 6-8 cold solder joints. The TV worked well for 20 some hours with no flash or power off. Then this morning it popped, went off and now does not turn back on. Once the master power button is pushed the power LED goes green then immediately lt turns red and stays red (off). Could I have damaged the PS board? If so then how come the TV worked for a couple days after my repair??


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Red retrace lines are typically caused by the red screen trimpot being set too high, the trimpots being very elemental and basic settings, which are set early on in the factory setup process. The trimpots establish a range within which the brightness control - and in this case where the red cutoff - work, which is in another, and different, part of the circuitry. The part controlled by the settings in the eeproms, deep within the signal circuitry.

If red is the only color where retrace lines are showing up, it could be that the entire overall screen potential is being affected by something on the power board, and red is simply the trimpot that is currently set highest. If you look hard you might see the blue or green retrace lines in the background.

Assuming the trimpots have been set up correctly - and Pioneer always sets them up correctly at the factory, you should never need to change them - brightness can be properly set either by user controls or in the sm. In a calibration, the sm brt controls will be set to that on ideal program materials, the user brt will be midpointed.

Thanks Mr Bob I do in fact see the the blue and green retrace lines as well. I planned to have my optics cleaned after this power shut down issue is resolved. I resoldered what seemed like 6-8 cold solder joints. The TV worked well for 20 some hours with no flash or power off. Then this morning it popped, went off and now does not turn back on. Once the master power button is pushed the power LED goes green then immediately lt turns red and stays red (off). Could I have damaged the PS board? If so then how come the TV worked for a couple days after my repair??



Even with ideal calibration settings in sm, I still notch the user brt down 5 clicks on Leno every weeknight, because their HD cams on his show are set to average everything, which makes the background on his monologue too filled in. It should be dark back there behind him during his monologue, hard to see - not easily apparent, which is where they run their brightness settings on his show.


Are your optics clean? Anyone who owns a 510, 610 or 710 should have had their optics professionally cleaned at least 2 or 3 times by now. If not, you are struggling to see detail in dark areas, and any bright object against a black background will have a haze around it.

Your brt settings might be just fine at midpoint after your optics are truly clean, and usually on this series that also involves the deeper optics cleaning, down to the CRT coolant covers and the backs of the removable lenses. 2 additional surfaces/CRT, that nearly doubles the number of surfaces cleaned, if the deeper optics cleaning is elected during one of my calibrations.


Mr Bob

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post #476 of 2939 Old 07-03-2006, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mo-man View Post

Thanks Mr Bob I do in fact see the the blue and green retrace lines as well. I planned to have my optics cleaned after this power shut down issue is resolved. I resoldered what seemed like 6-8 cold solder joints. The TV worked well for 20 some hours with no flash or power off. Then this morning it popped, went off and now does not turn back on. Once the master power button is pushed the power LED goes green then immediately lt turns red and stays red (off). Could I have damaged the PS board? If so then how come the TV worked for a couple days after my repair??


Don't know. Never had that happen to me when I have repaired this kind of problem.

Evidence indicates that the shutdown problem occured AFTER you were inside. Hate to say it, but you might have caused some damage.

I would take that board out and go over it with a fine tooth comb, make sure you didn't do any inadvertent solder bridges.


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post #477 of 2939 Old 07-04-2006, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

I rarely do the entire board, and I'll tell you why.

Be very careful of the smaller devices. It is really easy to create a solder bridge - a connection between 2 points that are not supposed to be connected - on the smaller stuff, esp. when your lighting is poor. Use strong lighting, and if you still can't see well enough because possibly your angles are wrong, shine a strong light in from the top of the board to the bottom of the board, and if there are no impediments to that light, you'll see whether there is space between the 2 points in question.

Strings of connections, like vertical ICs, etc. are very prone to gathering solder bridges if you're not careful.

I usually leave the smaller, very tiny devices alone, just because it's so easy to get one of these solder bridges wrong and not notice it. The bigger devices have lots more space between them.

Besides, the smaller devices rarely develop heat. You will see little halos around lots of them, but they have never been prominent in causing a board to fail, in my experience.

It's usually the bigger devices that cause board failure.


Mr Bob

Having experience the same intermittent power problems on the PRO-510 as described by others, I took out the P/S board to inspect the solder joints. After about a half hour of looking for failing joints, I could not definitively determine if there were any bad solder joints. So I re-installed the P/S and made sure the P/S output pin connectors were seated tightly. The problem has disappeared for now leading me to belive the pin connectors may be the problem. As with many intermittent problems/symptoms, complete failure may be the only definitive way to confirm the source of the problem.

I suspect these connectors are the issue, do you know if there is a conductive compound that can be added to these pin connections that might help?

Thanks

Rick
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post #478 of 2939 Old 07-04-2006, 09:34 PM
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You can add me to the list of Pro-510 owner, I've had mine since September of 03. I started having the blue-screen flicker problems for about a year now, the problem has always been mildly intermittant, and usually corrected itself within 5-10 minutes after warming up. However, within the past month or so, the problem has gotten stedily worse to the point where the set powers itself off.

I'd love to try and get more time out of this set, however, my confidence in my own soldering skills is NIL. If anyone knows a reputable repair person in the Seattle area with experience with this problem and would be willing to PM me about it, then I'd appreciate it.
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post #479 of 2939 Old 07-05-2006, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spainb View Post

I'd love to try and get more time out of this set, however, my confidence in my own soldering skills is NIL. If anyone knows a reputable repair person in the Seattle area with experience with this problem and would be willing to PM me about it, then I'd appreciate it.


Try In-Home TV Repir Lynnwood Wa.
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post #480 of 2939 Old 07-05-2006, 09:12 AM
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Add me to the Elite list! I have a Pro-710 that began to show the blue flashes symptom over the weekend.

This is clearly a product defect and it is surprising that Pioneer has not moved to maintain the integrity of the Elite brand by addressing it.

Has anyone else in the Houston area had the problem and/or can recommend an experienced repair-person?

Many thanks to those who have posted on this thread for their efforts to diagnose the problem and provide the information on how to solve it. The posts have been extremely helpful - even to the technologically challenged.
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