Pioneer Elite Pro-510 problem - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 2939 Old 08-24-2006, 03:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billfish33 View Post

well,I'm back in this thread again {replaced my PS board in jan '05}
have not had any flashes at all,the set has been working great till this evening.

Right after watching a DVD,right at the very end....I heard a pop and the set shut off,I cannot get it back on even after having it unplugged for a few hours.
also there is a red L.E.D that is in the rear of the set {when behind the set it's on the far right side in the lower corner {looks like it could be ON the PS board}
it's kinda hard to tell with the back on though.

Liquidpen,have you found out what your problem is yet ?


Look for another red LED in there, on the left side as you look in from the back of the set. If you see one on the left side, chances are it's your convergence gone bad. If so one or both of your conv ICs has probably shorted out, and my recommendation is to replace both if you replace one.

This is covered earlier on in this thread.


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post #542 of 2939 Old 08-24-2006, 07:35 AM
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Mr. Bob,
I do indeed have 2 red LED's lit
the lower far right side ,and a mid high far left side.


I had the 510 unplugged all night,plugged it in and attempted to to turn it on while I watched the rear,no red LED's this time,I moved to the front and had a green on light this time but within a split second it shut-off again with the LED's on in the rear.

Is this what your talking about ?

Symptom: Set is in shutdown mode. Diagnostic LEDs indicate a
problem in the vertical circuit.
Cure: Replace defective C909 or C911 on Convergence Amp. assy.
Models Covered: PRO510HD, PRO610HD, PRO710HD, SD532HD5,
SD582HD5
Tip Date: October 04 2001
The Tech Name: Jeff Andrews

how difficult is this job and how costly ?,
is it simply swapping boards,or sending out boards ??

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post #543 of 2939 Old 08-24-2006, 10:05 AM
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this looks like what you were refering to. ?

so by what I gather,I'd need 2 fuses {202 and 204}
as well as 2 of the same conv IC's {STK 392-110}

are these the parts #'s for both the fuses and the IC's ?
this appears more than I can handle,swapping out a board was easy but this seems like allot more work.

If the board comes out as easy as the ps board,can I send it somewhere to have the IC's installed ?





Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

I have been seeing someting lately that has nothing to do with cold solder joints. The last 2 repairs, one a 510 and the other a 610, had exactly the same problems, with exactly the same solutions. Neither involved the power supply board except for replacing fuses, and both involved direct shutdown of the set upon turn-on, with no intermittency or blue flash, or any other hinkiness. The set would simply not go on, at all - do not pass go, do not collect $200.

If your set shuts down directly upon turn-on and you go in and find that fuses 202 and 204 are both blown on the power supply board, you have a characteristic set of data that points to only one thing.

The first is a 6.3 amp, the second is a 5 amp, and they are both smaller-sized GMA F type glass fuses. They are both horizontally mounted on the power supply board, directly across from each other with another fuse in between and another one to the right, and the left one's board locator number is covered with a white stuck-on label which simply IDs it as a certain voltage rating and 5A.

One goes to the +25v. rail and the other goes to the - 20v rail.

These 2 rails are the plus and minus voltages to the convergence ICs. One of the ICs will be blown, taking out both fuses, and if you don't want to figure out which and believe in the throw-out bearing principle, just replace both ICs and upgrade your system. That's what I do, even tho the convergence has to be redone after either is/are replaced.

The IC is the STK 392-110, 2 of them, mounted deep into the double board that comprises the convergence assembly, which is the other vertically mounted board on the other side of the back from the power supply board.

The top board of this double-board set has to be removed so you can get to the ICs, and if you pull the small ribbon connector that connects the 2 boards, it pulls away most co-operatively. The ICs are mounted on the large heat sink, and be sure to apply a liberal amount of heat sink compound on beneath the new ones, while in the process removing any old compound on the heat sink that has dried out. If you're careful you may get away with not having to dismount the board from the sink itself, but the soldered legs are a tight squeeze to get both a soldering iron and a solder sucker in there.

I have not found any cold solder joints on this problem. The joints are all gleaming and solid, so the ICs themselves are what goes out.

The set will not turn on without the fuses being in place and whole/not blown, and it also won't turn on if you disco any of the 3 conn'rs going to the conv yokes. In one case the lack of voltages at the other end of the fuses does not enable stay-on, in the other case there's some interlock in each of those 3 connectors that needs to be there for the set to turn on.

Whoever has this problem, good luck and keep us informed.


Mr Bob


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post #544 of 2939 Old 08-24-2006, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billfish33 View Post

this looks like what you were refering to. ?

so by what I gather,I'd need 2 fuses {202 and 204}
as well as 2 of the same conv IC's {STK 392-110}

are these the parts #'s for both the fuses and the IC's ?
this appears more than I can handle,swapping out a board was easy but this seems like allot more work.

If the board comes out as easy as the ps board,can I send it somewhere to have the IC's installed ?


I have not witnessed a problem with the vertical circuit on these units as yet. Have only seen the convergence and PS problems. Could be that the vertical is what's at fault, and if so what I have said about convergence does not apply. However, the most likely suspect is really what needs to be attacked at this point, and that is the convergence.

Check and see if the 2 fuses on the PS board that I have notated previously in this thread, are both blown. If so, then I think we can rest assured that the conv ICs are what are blowing them, as both fuses do not go to the vertical circuit. One maybe, but not both. Conv ICs use both plus and minus power supplies - one fuse each - while the vertical circuit only uses the positive power supply voltage rail.


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post #545 of 2939 Old 08-24-2006, 02:16 PM
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Bob :

I had the double board out within minutes,was very simple ,I used a marker to lablel the plugs and it won't be a problem at all.and it's all boxed up and ready to ship.
one thing though,
I checked the fuses by sight,and they look ok to me ? could be wrong though ?


with that said,
after I spoke with you earlier,I started having second thoughts and started looking at newer sets,and only because I got scared off from the problems ahead of reconverging the set.
You had mentioned it will be so far outta whack and would take quite a bit of work to get it back to where it is now ?,and the IC's may not even be the problem ?

I really need some input on this cause if I do go ahead for a new set,it won't be as nice as things are real tight right now.the piano black matches my psb's
so nice,and what I've been looking at I hate to say it is DLP sets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

I have not witnessed a problem with the vertical circuit on these units as yet. Have only seen the convergence and PS problems. Could be that the vertical is what's at fault, and if so what I have said about convergence does not apply. However, the most likely suspect is really what needs to be attacked at this point, and that is the convergence.

Check and see if the 2 fuses on the PS board that I have notated previously in this thread, are both blown. If so, then I think we can rest assured that the conv ICs are what are blowing them, as both fuses do not go to the vertical circuit. One maybe, but not both. Conv ICs use both plus and minus power supplies - one fuse each - while the vertical circuit only uses the positive power supply voltage rail.


Mr Bob


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post #546 of 2939 Old 08-24-2006, 10:06 PM
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Success!

After ordering all four parts (the 2 STK's and the two smaller ones) from electronix I was able to desolder the parts and replace them. It has been quite awhile since I did any desoldering, but the simple copper desolder braid I used worked very well. Once I got the hang of the operation it went much faster.

I removed all four parts attached to the heat sink, cleared off the old heat sink compound and spread a conservative amount across the new parts. Having worked with heat sink compound before with CPU fans, I understand that too much will actually reduce the thermal transfer so I was careful not to add too much.

As for reattaching the parts, I was careful to use a pair of small needlenose pliars to duplicate the positioning of the pins so they would fit through the holes (only on the two small three pin parts). After threading the pins through I reattached the mounting screws to the heat sink and made sure there were no visable gaps. The only issue I had was after mounting the STK's I noticed that the PC board was warping due to the stress the pre-bent pins were placing on it. I took the pliars and pulled the pins through to relieve the stress and the board went back into place. After everything was mounted the resoldering went quickly and I was careful to watch for solder bridges. Before re-mounting the board I clipped off the excess pin length.

After remounting the convergence boards I replaced the 5A 125V fuse that had blown repeatedly. I had already replaced all of the fuses before considering they were more than 5 years old, so I knew the one fuse was all that was left.

After powering the set back on I was astonished to note how clear the picture was. I waited the 45+ minutes to allow the STK's to warm up and set about tuning the convergence. There were very minimal adjustment required in both the centerpoint and the mult-point adjustments. It also seemed like my previous User settings remained, even though the set was without power for more than a week.

I then set about validating the picture with a variety of inputs. The SD channels looked fine and slightly fuzzy as they always have. The HD channels were crystal clear and my previous overscan problems were greatly reduced with no adjustments. I was no longer experiencing any cutoff of the station logos with the exception of the ESPN-HD channel which had very minimal overscan (only the bottom leg of the E was obscured).

The only thing I have left to discern is to identify the source of some oversaturation and banding of scenes with intense red. Could this be an issue with the comb filter?

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post #547 of 2939 Old 08-25-2006, 03:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billfish33 View Post

Bob :

I had the double board out within minutes,was very simple ,I used a marker to lablel the plugs and it won't be a problem at all.and it's all boxed up and ready to ship.
one thing though,
I checked the fuses by sight,and they look ok to me ? could be wrong though ?


with that said,
after I spoke with you earlier,I started having second thoughts and started looking at newer sets,and only because I got scared off from the problems ahead of reconverging the set.
You had mentioned it will be so far outta whack and would take quite a bit of work to get it back to where it is now ?,and the IC's may not even be the problem ?

I really need some input on this cause if I do go ahead for a new set,it won't be as nice as things are real tight right now.the piano black matches my psb's
so nice,and what I've been looking at I hate to say it is DLP sets.


If you'll look at the entry that follows yours you'll see that on his, replacing the STK's caused no problems with the convergence or geometry. I would say that it's very likely that it won't be any problem with yours either. It's actually pretty rare that doing this replacement causes massive shifts in the geometry/convergence paradigm, but it does happen on Pioneers now and then.

If it does cause shifts, correcting it is something I can walk you thru on the phone. I charge for my time on this type of thing, but it's well worth it to have someone as experienced as I am on the other end of the phone. My consultations have been universally well received at the user's end. I know tricks very few know, after having done this as long as I have, in the very specialized field of big screen calibration.

In any case, worst case scenario is that you have to have someone in to redo your convergence and geometry. For any talented DIYer, this has been pretty much a no-brainer. And you will have upgraded your convergence sys with new parts - never a bad idea in the first place, as they work real hard in there at all times that the set is on. And if it allows your set to stay on from then on, you have successfully repaired it, as many on this board, at this thread, have. These Pios, which cost many thousands when new and were worth every penny, are definitely worth spending a few hundred bucks on, to repair and keep going.

If my replacing your STKs did not solve your shutdown problem, I would refund half the labor money you paid me to do the IC replacement for you. In which case you'd get the upgraded convergence sys for half price on the labor part of it. This would not include the parts, which would remain the same.

But in your email your description of the state of the fuses is that you have not tested them with an ohmmeter for continuity, when removed from circuit. This should be done before any final decisions are made, on your end.


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post #548 of 2939 Old 08-25-2006, 11:20 AM
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FYI: Pioneer Customer Service acknowledged the solder problem on my out-of-warranty 710 and is sending out an authorized tech to do the repair at no expense!

It may take a bit of CS roulette, but I was told the policy now is that they *are* dealing with it.
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post #549 of 2939 Old 08-25-2006, 07:25 PM
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http://www.electronix.com/catalog/pr...oducts_id/9359

also
besides the 2 IC's {stk-392-110},theres nothing else in actual parts {besides the 2 fuses} ?correct ??

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post #550 of 2939 Old 08-25-2006, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esdc View Post

FYI: Pioneer Customer Service acknowledged the solder problem on my out-of-warranty 710 and is sending out an authorized tech to do the repair at no expense!

It may take a bit of CS roulette, but I was told the policy now is that they *are* dealing with it.


By chance, did you get any of the names of the people in customer service that told you this? Because it could probably help other people a lot if they were to call them on this issue, and they knew who to contact about it.
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post #551 of 2939 Old 08-26-2006, 11:37 AM
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I did not get any of the names, but was told by the manager that calls should go through the "warranty repair" option (which is where I was), and if the CS rep cannot find it, to ask for a manager.

The Pioneer customer service number is 1-800-421-1404. Once you go through the menus to warranty repair, it takes 15-30 minutes to get an operator. They asked for model number, serial number, place and approximate date of purchase. The rep was going to just set up the repair, but I asked for a manager to answer some questions. He said the words "power supply", "solder", "flash", and "pop" should be plenty to get them to identify it as this problem.

They then took further details (name, phone, address), and I hung up. This was all on Monday Afternoon.

Friday morning I was called back by them. A service call had been set up with the "Pioneer Preferred" local repair place, and they gave me that info. I called them, and a service call was arranged for Monday AM.

Thanks to soltex9 who was the guinea pig on this!
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post #552 of 2939 Old 08-26-2006, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billfish33 View Post

http://www.electronix.com/catalog/pr...oducts_id/9359

also
besides the 2 IC's {stk-392-110},theres nothing else in actual parts {besides the 2 fuses} ?correct ??


Well, the price has gone down from what I remember it was before, and even factoring in shipping to that price, it's definitely a great price! I have been paying more, from other sources. I will definitely go with this source from now on, and will reduce the price I am asking for them, from those who have me service their convergence boards in this thread.

And yes, these 2 are the only parts needed, aside from the fuses, which I think are a 5A and a 4A.

In talking with Pio's tech assist dept. yesterday, I found out that the vertical circuit in there does use both positive and negative voltage rails, but they also say that the vertical rarely goes bad, and is definitely not the prime suspect/most likely suspect on the convergence board. That the conv ICs are - those and only those.

So yeah, those are all you'll need to order.

Have you checked your fuses yet, out of circuit with an ohmmeter?


Mr Bob

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post #553 of 2939 Old 08-26-2006, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esdc View Post

FYI: Pioneer Customer Service acknowledged the solder problem on my out-of-warranty 710 and is sending out an authorized tech to do the repair at no expense!

It may take a bit of CS roulette, but I was told the policy now is that they *are* dealing with it.


Yay! Maybe they will do enough for the Elites - and SD series' - out there right now to keep them all truckin' for many more years!


As I have been saying for years on these boards, the lifespan of a well treated CRT RPTV is less like 5-7 years and more like 10-15 years, when taken care of properly. Pioneer centers their contrast BY DEFAULT in a very safe range, both in sm and in user operations, which not only keeps the CRTs from aging prematurely, but keeps everything else in there operating within its linear operating range while being viewed.

All those 10-15 years, they are capable of looking better then new, when cleaned and calibrated properly and regularly.

If Pioneer has finally bit the bullet and ackowledged these weak points, and is ready to step up to the plate and handle fixing them properly after all these years, you Elite owners can look forward to stellar performance out of your sets for at least another 5 years, possibly even longer.

You Elite owners paid dearly for the privilege of the nice black lacquer piano finish and the capacity for image greatness built into these puppies - thousands more than other brands were asking, at the time - and you deserve the finest treatment Pioneer can give you.


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post #554 of 2939 Old 08-27-2006, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Well, the price has gone down from what I remember it was before, and even factoring in shipping to that price, it's definitely a great price! I have been paying more, from other sources. I will definitely go with this source from now on, and will reduce the price I am asking for them, from those who have me service their convergence boards in this thread.

And yes, these 2 are the only parts needed, aside from the fuses, which I think are a 5A and a 4A.

In talking with Pio's tech assist dept. yesterday, I found out that the vertical circuit in there does use both positive and negative voltage rails, but they also say that the vertical rarely goes bad, and is definitely not the prime suspect/most likely suspect on the convergence board. That the conv ICs are - those and only those.

So yeah, those are all you'll need to order.

Have you checked your fuses yet, out of circuit with an ohmmeter?


Mr Bob


the only fuse blown is a 5 amp fuse {the one that had the odd look to it}
I checked each one with my ohm meter.
My Neighbor has offered to do this for me reasonably !
I'll just have to wait to get the parts in and he needs a few weeks to free up some time.
I'll post the results when it's done !!!!

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post #555 of 2939 Old 08-29-2006, 02:18 PM
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esdc, thanks. I called the warranty dept. They said they had some information on the problem. They gave me a case number and had me fax them my purchase receipt and any service documents, of which there are none because this is the only problem I've ever had. Now I'm waiting for the call back. I wrote that I knew what the problem and fix was and would prefer a resolder rather than a new PS board that may go bad again. We'll see what they say.

Did your tech come out Mon.? If so, how did it go....what did they do/say?...and most important...is it fixed and did it cost you anyting??

Again, thanks for the info.

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post #556 of 2939 Old 08-29-2006, 02:57 PM
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The scheduled appointment happened Monday afternoon.

Pioneer inverted two number on the street address (a "phone tag" problem, I guess), but that was easy enough to deal with on the cell. Just in case, you may wish to confirm your address when your local repair place calls you back.

The tech that came out was the owner, and he knew exactly what he was looking for. Once the board was out, he touched up 202-204, then inspected the rest of the board, and touched up half a dozen other connections (although he said only one "really needed it"). The set was reassembled and back together for a total time of 20-25 minutes.

Speaking with the tech, he said that there have been "some" of these cases since late 2004, but that they have become much more prevalent in the last six months or so. He then left, and all I had to do was sign the work order. In other words, it was indeed no cost as promised. Sincce you've not had any work done on the set before, I'd get a card and rate sheet (if they have one) from the guy/company Pioneer sends out and hold on to it. Considering this Houston company (APM) is Pioneer's preferred service center, I was a bit surprised to find they were significantly cheaper than the folks I had been using (less than half for the cost of a cleaning).

No visible flashes through the Monday Night Football game or Letterman in HD. It is certainly "mostly fixed", although I won't say it is 100% so until I've had time to check it out further.
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post #557 of 2939 Old 08-29-2006, 03:20 PM
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Sweet deal esdc!! Congrats and I hope mine goes as well. It's really a relief to hear that Pioneer has begun to acknowledge this. I've been SOL trying to find someone local to do this for me. Was fixing to use our friend's(MrBob) service, and just may yet if I"m not as fortunate.

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post #558 of 2939 Old 08-29-2006, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esdc View Post

The scheduled appointment happened Monday afternoon.

The tech that came out was the owner, and he knew exactly what he was looking for. Once the board was out, he touched up 202-204, then inspected the rest of the board, and touched up half a dozen other connections (although he said only one "really needed it"). The set was reassembled and back together for a total time of 20-25 minutes.

Speaking with the tech, he said that there have been "some" of these cases since late 2004, but that they have become much more prevalent in the last six months or so.


If I were doing this under warranty, I may have also given it half an hour's time, and resoldered essentially half a dozen spots.

However, on the last 2 boards I have repaired, I have elected to resolder virtually every solder joint on the board - everything except the straight jumper wires between pads and the test point prongs, neither of which ever get stressed directly. That's a lot of solder joints, and I assure you it was not completed within half an hour. Just getting into the back and freeing up the board to be soldered - which involves removing numerous screws and removing it from its metal casing, which has generous plating underneath, preventing any soldering - and getting it back in place, with all plugs removed and then replaced into their sockets - then putting the back back on, including all screws you had to remove to get it off - just getting in to where you can actually do the work and then back out again, takes that long.

I will agree with him about one thing: these things keep getting progressively worse as the years go by. Whenever you touch your soldering iron to a joint's leg and the solder there separates and congeals on the leg, parting company with the outer edge of the pad, revealing an acre of space between the leg and the pad - as if it had never been soldered - you know that was an accident waiting to happen, and you gotta wonder how much longer that joint would have lasted once the board was put back into the unit and into service again. In exploring that board, I have seen many such separations when the joint is hit by just the iron itself, before the solder is applied. The same stresses that caused the initial problems continue, and you gotta wonder how long it would be till connections that are OK - but weak - now, will last under the same conditions that originally weakened them.

If these boards were being treated like computer boards in massive server rooms, where the climate is strategically controlled and run at a very precise and constant temperature, these problems would never have occurred.

But big screens are not climate controlled, in any way shape or form. They get turned on and get hot, then they get turned off and get cold; everything heats up and expands, then it cools and contracts again, then the whole expand/contract/expand/contract cycle repeats itself, over and over and over, day by day. After years of this, the PS boards originally put out by Pioneer failed. If many of the smaller joints not mentioned heretofore in this thread are weak now, how long will it be till the board fails again?

Not only do you have to wonder about all these things, you also gotta wonder how much you can trust any boards sent out by Pioneer, for replacement. If you have sent for one, please look at it closely and let us know whether the solder conns in there are dull and flat looking, with thin solder, as the original boards are. Or are they gleaming and glossy, with plenty of solder, indicating a fresh and thorough re-soldering job?

I can't say, as I have never seen a replacement PS board for this series sent out by Pioneer. They could all be excellently resoldered, like the job I do.

All I know is that I never get problems later, years down the line, when I apply my version of cold solder joint protocol to these boards.


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post #559 of 2939 Old 08-29-2006, 05:00 PM
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Bob, have you received my email(s). I'll wait to hear what Pioneer says when their warranty dept. calls back, but I"m still leaning on sending my board your way to make sure it gets done correctly and all the way through.

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post #560 of 2939 Old 08-30-2006, 02:30 AM
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Bob, have you received my email(s).

No, no emails from you at my regular email address in my signature, below.

You can find the real thing in my contact info at my website, www.imageperfection.com.

I have been preening my spam filter for months, perhaps I have set something in motion that won't let yours thru, esp. if it has any promotional content in it.

Can you try from an alternate email address at your end?


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post #561 of 2939 Old 08-30-2006, 07:14 AM
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Ok Bob, I sent you another email from work...hopefully that will reach you. I had copied the PM in the original email that did not reach you and have since deleted the PM......so I guess we'll start over. Let me know if you get it. I'm still waiting on a call back from the Pioneer warranty dept. but just don't have a good feeling that the board will be checked over thoroughly. While "free" certainly does have appeal, I don't want this cropping up again anytime soon.

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post #562 of 2939 Old 08-30-2006, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

If I were doing this under warranty, I may have also given it half an hour's time, and resoldered essentially half a dozen spots.

However, on the last 2 boards I have repaired, I have elected to resolder virtually every solder joint on the board - everything except the straight jumper wires between pads and the test point prongs, neither of which ever get stressed directly. That's a lot of solder joints, and I assure you it was not completed within half an hour. Just getting into the back and freeing up the board to be soldered - which involves removing numerous screws and removing it from its metal casing, which has generous plating underneath, preventing any soldering - and getting it back in place, with all plugs removed and then replaced into their sockets - then putting the back back on, including all screws you had to remove to get it off - just getting in to where you can actually do the work and then back out again, takes that long.

Understood!

However, given the time to repair (Almost three weeks since I first observed the symptoms), the cost of repair (zero), the real downtime (an hour or so) and the fact it appears to be fixed (still no flashes), I am going with "beggars can't be choosers."

I was happy to get a tech who was clearly familiar with the set, could proceed with the disassembly (removing the back, removing the board, removing the plating) in a confident and careful manner, knew what needed to be fixed, and got the work done in a timely manner.

I definitely think it is worth going through Pioneer Customer Service and an authorized repair center over "DIY," even if the individual is experienced with a soldering iron.

While I hope not to need your level of service, I'm glad to know there's some place I can get it! Also good to hear from the other Houston/area x10 owners, and we just might find a reason to bring you down to Texas if and when it becomes necessary.
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post #563 of 2939 Old 08-31-2006, 05:56 AM
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Hello,

I just developed a problem with my 510. I was watching TV the other night and after a few minutes, it suddenly shut down. I came across this thread and read every post. Here are my symptoms...I never experienced the blue flashes, this is the first problem I have had in 6 years with this set. I removed the back panel and noticed that there are 2 red led's on. One on the PS board and one on the deflection (high voltage) board. Does this mean the problem lies in the deflection board? or do both boards have a problem? Could this also be a solder problem?

Any input is greatly appreciated.

- Joe
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post #564 of 2939 Old 08-31-2006, 03:35 PM
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esdc, thanks. I called the warranty dept. They said they had some information on the problem. They cave me a case number. . .

Fixed the "flashes" problem by resoldering back in '04 but the "pop and shut downs" have become an issue. I called Pioneer, they assigned a case # and said that a CSR would get back to me in the "next few business days". It would be just sensational if Pioneer would own up to their mfg problems and provide a solution for free. I am pretty persistent but keep your collective fingers crossed.

Will report back as I know more . . .

Justin
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post #565 of 2939 Old 09-01-2006, 02:55 AM
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Quote:
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Ok Bob, I sent you another email from work...hopefully that will reach you. I had copied the PM in the original email that did not reach you and have since deleted the PM......so I guess we'll start over. Let me know if you get it. I'm still waiting on a call back from the Pioneer warranty dept. but just don't have a good feeling that the board will be checked over thoroughly. While "free" certainly does have appeal, I don't want this cropping up again anytime soon.


Have not received any emails from any Kevins in recent memory. Wonder what's hanging things up?

If you want to doublecheck my email address, go to my website and it will be there in its normal form, for your perusal.


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post #566 of 2939 Old 09-07-2006, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyT View Post

Hello,

I just developed a problem with my 510. I was watching TV the other night and after a few minutes, it suddenly shut down. I came across this thread and read every post. Here are my symptoms...I never experienced the blue flashes, this is the first problem I have had in 6 years with this set. I removed the back panel and noticed that there are 2 red led's on. One on the PS board and one on the deflection (high voltage) board. Does this mean the problem lies in the deflection board? or do both boards have a problem? Could this also be a solder problem?

Any input is greatly appreciated.

- Joe


Here is what I have found on my 510 so far (as of this morning)...
I have been seeing the random brightness change problem for about 4 months. A couple months ago, I started seeing bright flashes and a pop - about once a week. The TV has shut itself off 4 times now in the past month. After the last time, which was 3 days ago, I unplugged it to let the high voltage discharge over night. In the meantime I decided to wire up my surround speakers to my newly acquired used Marantz A/V amp.
I disconnected the 2 front tv speakers (since I never use them anyway) and wired them directly to my amp's Center-out. This is going to sound great! I pushed the tv back into place, turned the main power on, and the green ON light came on... for about 3 seconds, and then shut off. Back into Standby mode. I tried to turn it ON with the remote and the front panel button, but to no avail. Ok, so it is still stuck in the same state as the day before.
I unplugged the tv again removed the rear lower cover, and removed the power supply board. I did not find any cracked solder joints but I found 2 that looked quite bad, one on a large filter capacitor, the other on one of the large resistors. Well, since I read here that many people had problems with the wire harness connectors, I started touching up all of those pins, adding a bit of solder to many of them. I then re-soldered all of the large capacitor leads as well as all of the transformer pins. I would say I re-soldered about 1/3 of the board. About 2 hours worth. I cleaned the entire back of the board with flux remover, let it dry and put it back in the tv.
Hit the main power button and the tv turned on, then the green ON light, then back to Standby again. However, now I noticed that there was 1 red LED glowing on the power supply board. Ok, I remembered reading something about that on this thread. However, I did not see a 2nd red LED glowing anywhere. Well, I found out that the single red LED meant 1 of 4 causes, one of which had something to do with the Audio section. I wonder... could it be that the tv tests for those speakers to be connected? Sure enough. I reconnected the speakers, and now the tv turned ON and the green light stayed on. Cool. All systems go. Threw in Spiderman 2 and watch the whole movie (~2 hours). All sounded great, except I was dissapointed I was back to no Center channel. Well, at least the tv is ok. Plus, I did not see any blue/white flashes and no audible "pops".
Next morning (today), I turn the tv on just to check all is still ok, and the green light comes on and stays on, but the picture is... well basically, non-existent. On the screen, there are bright color/rainbow bars on either side, and there are about 20 visible horizontal lines somewhat pincushioned, especially at the bottom. If I change inputs or press the Split Screen or Menu buttons, some very small change is noticable at the top edge of the screen. No red LEDs on anywhere. Shut it completely off for an hour. Still no go. Left it off all day today and just tried it again (9 PM). No go. So now I am not sure what to try next. I do not know if this is a problem with the deflection circuit, convergence circuit, or still a power supply problem.

Photo 1: http://www.microdisk.com/images/510HD/510HD-1.jpg
Close-up: http://www.microdisk.com/images/510HD/510HD-2.jpg

Has anyone else seen this before?
Señor Bob?

Jeff
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post #567 of 2939 Old 09-08-2006, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ndna Jnz View Post

Here is what I have found on my 510 so far (as of this morning)...
I have been seeing the random brightness change problem for about 4 months. A couple months ago, I started seeing bright flashes and a pop - about once a week. The TV has shut itself off 4 times now in the past month. After the last time, which was 3 days ago, I unplugged it to let the high voltage discharge over night. In the meantime I decided to wire up my surround speakers to my newly acquired used Marantz A/V amp.
I disconnected the 2 front tv speakers (since I never use them anyway) and wired them directly to my amp's Center-out. This is going to sound great! I pushed the tv back into place, turned the main power on, and the green ON light came on... for about 3 seconds, and then shut off. Back into Standby mode. I tried to turn it ON with the remote and the front panel button, but to no avail. Ok, so it is still stuck in the same state as the day before.
I unplugged the tv again removed the rear lower cover, and removed the power supply board. I did not find any cracked solder joints but I found 2 that looked quite bad, one on a large filter capacitor, the other on one of the large resistors. Well, since I read here that many people had problems with the wire harness connectors, I started touching up all of those pins, adding a bit of solder to many of them. I then re-soldered all of the large capacitor leads as well as all of the transformer pins. I would say I re-soldered about 1/3 of the board. About 2 hours worth. I cleaned the entire back of the board with flux remover, let it dry and put it back in the tv.
Hit the main power button and the tv turned on, then the green ON light, then back to Standby again. However, now I noticed that there was 1 red LED glowing on the power supply board. Ok, I remembered reading something about that on this thread. However, I did not see a 2nd red LED glowing anywhere. Well, I found out that the single red LED meant 1 of 4 causes, one of which had something to do with the Audio section. I wonder... could it be that the tv tests for those speakers to be connected? Sure enough. I reconnected the speakers, and now the tv turned ON and the green light stayed on. Cool. All systems go. Threw in Spiderman 2 and watch the whole movie (~2 hours). All sounded great, except I was dissapointed I was back to no Center channel. Well, at least the tv is ok. Plus, I did not see any blue/white flashes and no audible "pops".
Next morning (today), I turn the tv on just to check all is still ok, and the green light comes on and stays on, but the picture is... well basically, non-existent. On the screen, there are bright color/rainbow bars on either side, and there are about 20 visible horizontal lines somewhat pincushioned, especially at the bottom. If I change inputs or press the Split Screen or Menu buttons, some very small change is noticable at the top edge of the screen. No red LEDs on anywhere. Shut it completely off for an hour. Still no go. Left it off all day today and just tried it again (9 PM). No go. So now I am not sure what to try next. I do not know if this is a problem with the deflection circuit, convergence circuit, or still a power supply problem.

Photo 1: http://www.microdisk.com/images/510HD/510HD-1.jpg
Close-up: http://www.microdisk.com/images/510HD/510HD-2.jpg

Has anyone else seen this before?
Señor Bob?

Jeff


It would be best if the images you send in contain something gridlike, to see what happens to it. If nothing else, make it the convergence grid in User section. From what I can see, it looks like your pic is lacking any convergence at all.

I would check the appropriate fuses on the PS board, for convergence, and the plus and minus voltage rails on your conv bd for +25 and -20v. I believe they will be marked on the conv bd, as to what voltages to look for.

There is a regulator IC on the PS board that comes loose under cold solder conditions, and while it does not shut the set down, it deprives the conv generator of the power it needs to produce the appropirate wafeforms, for the conv ICs to do their job. The conv ICs could be fully powered up and operational, but if the conv gen bd is not powered up, the result will be the same: set won't shut down, but no conv correction either.

Since you did the barebones repair similar to what the warranty tech did recently in this thread, you probably didn't hit the reg IC in question. I would never have let that one by me, since it is heat sunk, and anything that develops heat is prone to cold solder joints as the set ages, if the solder used originally was thin, as is all solder that I see on these Pio PS boards.

Remember, the conv ICs just do what they are told, they are only amplifiers (audio amplifiers, to be exact). If they are not told to correct anything from the conv gen bd, they won't. If the conv gen bd is down - usually from not being properly fed its proper voltages, rather than from being defective - the result will be the same: no correction signals to the ICs, so no conv correction to your images from the CRT coils those ICs feed.

Since the conv ICs are not being worked with any incoming signal - if they are just sitting there, powered up but passive - they could have all their appropriate voltages and still probably be stone cold at their heat sinks, on the conv bd.


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post #568 of 2939 Old 09-08-2006, 12:52 PM
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It would be best if the images you send in contain something gridlike, to see what happens to it. If nothing else, make it the convergence grid in User section. From what I can see, it looks like your pic is lacking any convergence at all.

Mr Bob

Thanks for the quick reply!
Do you mean the convergence adjustment grid as accessed from the User Setup menu? I tried to select this by following the menu pics in the owner's manual, but since I see almost no change on the display, I cannot guarantee that I am actually invoking the grid. If I am in fact invoking it, then it looks like there is little change in the display from the pic I posted above. I will check the fuses and voltages tonight.

Jeff
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post #569 of 2939 Old 09-09-2006, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
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Thanks for the quick reply!
Do you mean the convergence adjustment grid as accessed from the User Setup menu? I tried to select this by following the menu pics in the owner's manual, but since I see almost no change on the display, I cannot guarantee that I am actually invoking the grid. If I am in fact invoking it, then it looks like there is little change in the display from the pic I posted above. I will check the fuses and voltages tonight.

Jeff


Yes.

The pic you posted shows nothing but a blank screen. At this point all I can see in it is that there is red on one side and blue on another. That could simply be static conv being off, except for the curvatures I see in the top and bottom sections.

I need to see something in the middle! The easiest grid is in User under convergence, the one after you have already selected up the crosshairs and want to get it tighter.

Or you can go into the sm and do that one. Really doesn't matter - what matters is that we see something in the center of the screen that will tell us what's going on there. It could be something as simple as the grid from your cable or sat guide.


If what is happening is that you can no longer get a pic at all, oh boy. That is not on the list of things DIYers can do, via this thread.

I would take that PS board out again, be sure to resolder the or 4 or 5 pin regulators that are heavily heat sunk if you have not already, and check very carefully for solder bridges.

One of the reasons I try to stay away from soldering the entire board - and am very careful whenever I do - is that the smaller conn's lend very easily to solder bridges if you're not watching like a hawk. And can be very hard to spot afterwards, since the components in there are so very small, and their conn's so very close together.

To find something that has been solder bridged by eye, you'd have to study the silkscreening under it, and see if there is any. If there doesn't appear to be, verifying that those 2 conns should be connected anyway, you have to desolder that bridge and see for yourself whether the 2 should be connected by a silkscreened run between them or not.

If you do have a solder bridge in there, I don't know why it would work fine for 2 hours and then quit, unless the bridge caused something to start overheating, and over 2 hours it finally quit.

If you have no pic at all, but can see movement in the upper atmosphere when you try to change things in your user menu, it could indicate something wrong with the vertical circuit, but that usually causes the entire pic to be squished up there at the top. In your case there's plenty of raster showing in the entire pic, which would at first glance eliminate vertical sweep problems from the equation.


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post #570 of 2939 Old 09-11-2006, 03:15 PM
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Hi, Over a month ago I was living with the Pop - Snap turn -off problems with my PRO-510. With the forum member's good advice, I re-soldered many of the E series connectors on the PS board. A very small tipped iron, and a good set of magnifiers sure came in handy, because it is very easy to solder bridge across the little traces!

After about two hours of careful work, I reassembled the whole unit. The smartest thing was to take several digital photos of the wiring layout -- this really helped for proper routing, etc..

With some trepidation, I powered up, expecting the worst -- but much to my pleasant surprise, the set came on, working great!

It now has been running perfectly for over 5 weeks without a problem!

Thanks, guys!

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