Pioneer Elite Pro-510 problem - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 2946 Old 06-07-2004, 10:30 AM
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DJ: The blue flash is back and I am going to call the repairman this afternoon for a price on replacing the blue board. MSL: My set at times will also stay at high contrast level for period of time. This whole situation is one big pain. It would seem to me that someone at Pioneer would have run into this problem sometime in the past. If my blue board is replaced and that does not solve the problem, I probably will write this TV off. It wouldn't take long to go over the replacement cost.

Bill
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post #32 of 2946 Old 06-07-2004, 10:40 AM
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Hello All,

I've been reading your post eagerly waiting a solution. I too have the "blue flicker" including the flash outs that cause the unit to shut off and require a master shut off to restart the unit. A friend with the same set knows a service tech who I will consult and report the results.
If anyone has any other suggestions regarding service personnel, I'm in Miami.
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post #33 of 2946 Old 06-07-2004, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by MSL
Doesn't it make sense that if it flashes blue, the other CRT should be off?

Ming

I don't know Ming. None of this makes sense. Why did mine stop? He didn't replace anything, ,just messed around with connections and reseated the board. In fact, he actually banged on the bottom of the board with a tool.

DJ
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post #34 of 2946 Old 06-07-2004, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by sawmill
It would seem to me that someone at Pioneer would have run into this problem sometime in the past.

I visited the Pioneer web site and sent email regarding the blue flash problem as well as complaining about my service tech. They responded that I needed to call them. So I did.

According to the service rep I spoke to, if a problem is one that has been reported "enough times" a service bulletin is issued by Pioneer detailing the problem. According to this rep, he'd never heard of the blue flash problem. I told him he should visit the AVS forum and look up this thread as there are several of us experiencing the problem. I came to the logical conclusion that if there were this many people having the problem here, then there must be many times that number who aren't members of this forum and don't have access to the thread.

He wasn't impressed.

So I guess the official Pioneer stance is this is not a widespread issue.

That's pretty odd since the repair guy who worked on my set contacted his Pioneer advisor who had a pretty good idea of what to look at and how to run the problem down. Sounds to me like he'd heard of it enough times to know exactly what to do.

For the amount of money I spent on this set, I would expect a little more out of Pioneer.

DJ
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post #35 of 2946 Old 06-09-2004, 02:59 PM
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Technician called and he is ordering the CRT blue board. So I guess we will be able to soon know if this is the problem with the 510. He has already been paid for his prior call and labor. I consider that money down the hatch. Without getting into problems with the AVS board, will simply say that the replacement board costs less that $100.00. Of course he will also charge labor for inserting the board. Needless to say, technician doesn't have the answer, nor I guess does Pioneer or anyone else.

Bill
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post #36 of 2946 Old 06-10-2004, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by sawmill
Technician called and he is ordering the CRT blue board. So I guess we will be able to soon know if this is the problem with the 510. He has already been paid for his prior call and labor. I consider that money down the hatch. Without getting into problems with the AVS board, will simply say that the replacement board costs less that $100.00. Of course he will also charge labor for inserting the board. Needless to say, technician doesn't have the answer, nor I guess does Pioneer or anyone else.

Bill

Bill, if you don't mind. Keep us informed as to whether or not the board being replaced fixes the problem for you. I still haven't had the blue flash return, but that doesn't mean it won't.

Thanks for keeping us up-to-date.

DJ
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post #37 of 2946 Old 06-22-2004, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by sawmill
Technician called and he is ordering the CRT blue board. So I guess we will be able to soon know if this is the problem with the 510. He has already been paid for his prior call and labor. I consider that money down the hatch. Without getting into problems with the AVS board, will simply say that the replacement board costs less that $100.00. Of course he will also charge labor for inserting the board. Needless to say, technician doesn't have the answer, nor I guess does Pioneer or anyone else.

Bill

bump
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post #38 of 2946 Old 06-24-2004, 07:06 AM
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When I last posted, the board for the blue crt had been ordered. Yesterday the technician brought out the new board, but rather than install it he decided to remove back lower cover and went to the power supply board and tapped different places while I watched from the front. When he tapped the a certain place, the set flickered blue, as had been happening in the past. He spent about 35 to 40 minutes soldering and the problem seems to be solved. Evidently the solder gets old on these sets, so I guess there will be many more instances of blue flicker problems in the future on the Pioneer sets. He thought it strange that Pioneer hadn't issued a bulletin on this problem. He intends on contacting them regarding the problem. The board for the blue crt was not used and he is going to return it to Pioneer. Well, watched the set last night and no flickering problem, and although this could be my imagination, I think the colors are much deeper. Got my fingers crossed, but believe the problem has been solved.

Bill
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post #39 of 2946 Old 06-27-2004, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


[i]Got my fingers crossed, but believe the problem has been solved.

Bill [/b]

Hi Bill, thanks for the update.

Would you mind PM'ing me with the name and phone number of your repair guy? Starting 2 days ago my blue flash problem was back ... with a vengeance.

I'd like to talk to your guy directly so I know what to tell my service guy to look for.

Thanks

DJ
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post #40 of 2946 Old 06-27-2004, 09:37 PM
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Thanks for the info, Bill. After reading your post I decided to poke around the back of the TV. I opened up the back cover (with power cord off the wall) and looked specifically at the PC board where the power line comes in. I noticed a alot of heat sinks on that board. Some of the solder seems to have pulled away from the pin. So I re-soldered some of them, plug in the power and turned on the TV. The flashing problem did not go away. It actually stayed at high contract. So I decided to try something else. This time (leaving the TV on) I started tapping some of the heat sinks with the handle of the screw driver. Every time I tap a heat sink, the blue flash will occur (just like Bill said). The closer I got to the row of white connectors on top of the board the worse the effect. So I "wiggled" some of those white connectors. The TV flashed blue and everything went back to normal. I then tapped all the heat sinks again and no more flashes. It seems that the connector weren't seated properly. I have the TV on over 6 hours now, and the problem hasn't come back. I will observe it a few more days and see if the problem returns.

Ming

BTW, it's probably not a good idea to mess with inside of the TV with power on if you are not comfortable with electrical stuff, since high voltage supply is right next to the PC board.
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post #41 of 2946 Old 06-28-2004, 05:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by MSL
Thanks for the info, Bill. After reading your post I decided to poke around the back of the TV.

It seems that the connector weren't seated properly. I have the TV on over 6 hours now, and the problem hasn't come back. I will observe it a few more days and see if the problem returns.

Hi Ming.

Wow ... good work. Now I know what to tell my service guy when I call him. I'm one of the ones who would not be comfortable poking around near the high-voltage supply.

Maybe between us we've got this thing tracked down.

Bill and Ming, please let us know if that blue flash comes back.

Thanks.

DJ
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post #42 of 2946 Old 06-29-2004, 09:02 PM
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Well, I don't have the blue flash problem but I wanted to chip in my own 510 Elite problem....a shifty and intermittent red convergence problem. Put simply, the reds will displace themselves to the left....sometimes jittering back and forth and sometimes just staying displaced. It's been serviced once but since it's intermittent they never saw the problem. Good gawd, these problems that occur just sometimes just drive me up the wall and I see I'm not the only one!

The set is four years old and I'm about to chuck it, that's why I'm reading this forum....to get ideas on a new set.

Anyway, I bet it's a convergence board which will cost in parts $300-$500 IIRC then tack on labor. Then......there is always that possibility (almost a certainty given my luck with this set) that my ISF calibration will be FUBAR'd, which will necessitate another $200-300. The calibration is necessary......all (most???) the Elites about four years old have a bad vertical overscan in Full HD mode that makes people (that's where I first noticed it) and everything else look too 'tall.' The ISF guy that did my set measured it at almost 15% on the vertical plane (5% horizontally)! Anyway I saw this on another Elite so I surmised it was a general Elite problem.

OK, now I feel better.
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post #43 of 2946 Old 07-01-2004, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
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I had a new service guy come out. He talked to someone at Pioneer who claims the "blue flash" problem has to do with the Sub-video assembly and not the Drive Assembly for the blue board. Actually, unfortunately, this makes more sense since I always considered it kinda weird that only the blue board would go out.

He checked all the PC boards for solder problems and reseating problems. Said everything looked good.

He checked the overscan (mine's at about 4%), the focus, convergence etc. He made a remark that his company doesn't do ISF adjustments because it's a known industry fact that convergence won't stay put, it travels a bit. I found that interesting since the previous service guy charged me big bucks to make the convergence adjustments.

He also said he works on several different manufacturers sets and he considers the picture on the Pro series to be about the best. He then said the sets are pretty much "bullet proof".

Anyway, I'm still waiting on a price for the subvideo assembly board. I'll keep you guys posted.

DJ
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post #44 of 2946 Old 07-01-2004, 12:37 PM
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One thing that my ISF guy did that made a difference was what he termed 'mechanical focus.' I'm not gonna try to explain what he did (cause I'm not sure myself), but he reached in the Elite and made a mechanical adjustment that effectively sharpened the scan lines. Bad at first....cause now you can see the fricken scan lines more easily. Move your couch back a foot or two and the scan lines disappear and but you're picture is sharpened. Regarding convergence, yes it does shift with time, which is why they give you such flexibility to adjusting the convergence yourself....but in my case the red jitters back and forth and that is not normal.
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post #45 of 2946 Old 07-03-2004, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by DanP
One thing that my ISF guy did that made a difference was what he termed 'mechanical focus.' I'm not gonna try to explain what he did (cause I'm not sure myself), but he reached in the Elite and made a mechanical adjustment that effectively sharpened the scan lines. Bad at first....cause now you can see the fricken scan lines more easily. Move your couch back a foot or two and the scan lines disappear and but you're picture is sharpened. Regarding convergence, yes it does shift with time, which is why they give you such flexibility to adjusting the convergence yourself....but in my case the red jitters back and forth and that is not normal.

I don't know how many of us in this thread have called Pioneer directly and complained, but I suggest that since this seems to be a problem we all share we should each make sure Pioneer knows about it. If they hear from enough of us, they will have to admit it's a problem that is common to these sets.

Call 1-800-421-1404 and navigate to Customer Service - Complaints. We don't need to let them sweep this under the rug. It's ridiculous that with a fairly short period of time we need to sink considerable money into an already expensive set for what appears to be a design or production flaw on their part.

DJ
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post #46 of 2946 Old 07-25-2004, 07:47 PM
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Im here in Miami. My Elite 510 had the same blue flashing/screwed up contrast problem.

I bought my set in NYC.

Anyone have any further info on a fix? Or has Pioneer responded?

Thanks
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post #47 of 2946 Old 07-25-2004, 08:43 PM
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Hi Steve,

Sorry to hear about the problem. After I "re-seated" some of the connectors, I haven't seen the flashing problem again (knock on wood). Maybe DJ can let us know how his service call went.

Ming
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post #48 of 2946 Old 07-26-2004, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Pioneer is not going to respond.

In fact the last service guy I called out was aware of this forum, and holds it in contempt. He basically told me the people here are full of it.

He decided it was the sub-video assembly board. He made that decision even though the set never once flashed while he was in my home. The cost for repairs? The board is $650 and installation $300. While he was looking at the set he made some adjustments. After he left I was watching the set, way too much red. I called him and he said he'd be out the next week to fix that. It's been 3 weeks, he hasn't been back. I finally went in to the guts of the set and found what he had done and fixed it myself.

My call to Pioneer's complaint department didn't do much good. The set is out of warranty, of course. I made the argument that after having spent thousands on a set they should fix what is apparently a flaw in their hardware. They don't agree. I was told that I should expect expensive repairs when I buy an expensive set. I let them know I would never again buy a Pioneer Elite product.

The service guy had tapped around on the inside of the set before he made his pronouncement that it was the sub video assembly board. For 3 weeks after he left no blue flash. Now it's back again. I've had it with Pioneer AND their freeking authorized service people. Tired of getting ripped off.

DJ
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post #49 of 2946 Old 07-26-2004, 07:44 AM
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I love the picture quality of my 510, but this will be my last Pioneer set as well. The bullet-proof image is overrated. All this trouble does not justify the high cost.

Ming
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post #50 of 2946 Old 07-26-2004, 11:44 AM
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MSL

Has your fix taken? Is the flash gone?

Just want to know before i head into the set and start fiddling around. In the meantime, Im currently "on hold" with pionner complaints.

Theyve "never heard" about the problem and suggest having a Pioneer tech come by. My biggest problem now is wondering what kindve axe i can take to this thing to chop it up into small enuf pieces to chuck into the trash.

We need to make this a big PROBLEM for Pioneer guys. Lets post on other boards as well.
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post #51 of 2946 Old 07-26-2004, 12:39 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by MSL
I love the picture quality of my 510, but this will be my last Pioneer set as well. The bullet-proof image is overrated. All this trouble does not justify the high cost.

Ming

Reading about all these problems we're having makes me think twice about how much to spend. Perhaps these TVs should be viewed as disposable after just a few years....and not just the CRTs but the other technologies. That poll about satisfaction with DLPs.....the failure rate is wayyyyyyy unacceptable. I'll never drop $5K on another TV again. They are too unreliable and service cost too high.
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post #52 of 2946 Old 07-26-2004, 12:40 PM
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Stevegee, my set haven't had the problem ever since I fiddled with the connectors. One of the connector (smaller, 8 pins I think) seem to be the culprit. Just touching the wiring leading to the connector will cause the screen to flash (the TV is on while I am doing this). Several times the screen actually went black. I turned off the TV, re-seated several of the connectors, and the problem hadn't return. I am leaving the back cover of the TV off for now in case I need to do it again.

Ming
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post #53 of 2946 Old 07-26-2004, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by stevegee
In the meantime, Im currently "on hold" with pionner complaints.

Theyve "never heard" about the problem and suggest having a Pioneer tech come by.

They are lying through their teeth. They had to have heard of it because I've called twice and complained AND I've had 2 different service companies out with the same complaint. Both service companies talked to their Pioneer rep who HAD heard of the problem.

My guess is they don't want to get into a recall situation.

I spent a good deal of time on the phone with their Complaint Department Supervisor.

At one point I told him to send me the board, that I would get it installed somehow. He told me he didn't want to bypass the service companies because he wanted to maintain a good relationship with them.

So there it is straight from the horses mouth.

1. They'd rather maintain a good relationship with their service company than the people who have spent thousands on their products.
2. They EXPECT expensive parts in the set to fail not long after the warranty expires. I guess that just means more post-sale money for them (parts) and their service company partners (parts markup and service).

My bottom line is there's no way in hell I would ever spend money with Pioneer or their partners again. If I can't fix the blue flash myself, I'll let the set go until the board fails then replace the set with something a lot less expensive.

Lesson learned, thanks Pioneer. You obviously don't need my business.

BTW - for anyone who wants to join me in writing a letter to the Pioneer Division manager who is over the complaints department, here's the info:

Kathy Yulich
P.O. Box 1760
Long Beach, CA 90801

Also .. both service reps had done such a lousy job "adjusting" the set I had to spend a lot of time fixing what they had fixed. I bought a DVD (Avia) that had test patterns and instructions on how to fine tune a High-Def set. Now, when it's not flashing blue, the picture is the best its ever been. The Avia DVD was well worth it's price.

DJ
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post #54 of 2946 Old 07-27-2004, 05:35 AM
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frankly, I think we should keep it at the top. For a warning for any future potential Pionneer customers. This is how Pioneer treat purchasers or their "Elite" line.
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post #55 of 2946 Old 07-27-2004, 08:04 AM
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My blue flashes problem is back after it disappeared for short time. I calibrated my TV two months ago and spent like $500.00. I am thinking not to spend any more money on this TV and stay away from PIONEER rest of my life.
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post #56 of 2946 Old 07-28-2004, 01:50 PM
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In my earlier thread I gave a description of what the technician did with my 510. My set has been working without blue flashes ever since. It seems that they are now using solder that contains no lead, such as in the 510, whereas earlier the solder they used contained lead. The solder without lead is affected by heat and does not last as long. As I stated earlier, the technician went in and spent quite a time resoldering. Maybe just getting a technician that knows how to solder and set him to work would be the answer. Of course, Pioneer would rather sell you a new board.

Bill
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post #57 of 2946 Old 07-28-2004, 01:52 PM
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Just one more thought. This is the law, "there shall be no lead based solder used in the U.S."

Bill
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post #58 of 2946 Old 08-02-2004, 07:43 PM
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Blue flashes continue for about two hours and the TV blacks out, total black. I turn the TV off for fifteen minutes. I turn the TV on and it works for fifteen minutes and again blacks out. Please help with any comments and suggestions
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post #59 of 2946 Old 08-04-2004, 06:29 PM
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I'm glad I'm not the only one with this issue. I'll try my fist when my set acts up later. (It's like a cough). It's a lot more cost effective then the repair guy. Do you guys have any updates on this problem?
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post #60 of 2946 Old 08-05-2004, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by sawmill
Just one more thought. This is the law, "there shall be no lead based solder used in the U.S."

Bill

Bill, I sent you a PM.

Thanks.

DJ
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