Pioneer Elite Pro-510 problem - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 2945 Old 01-05-2007, 10:20 AM
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So, I resoldered my power supply board (Pro 510) a couple months ago and got rid of my brightness/flashing problem. Well, three or four weeks later something else started going on. I was getting horizontal lines near the top and bottom and my blue was acting whacky. It is way out of focus and would keep popping back into focus and then out of focus especially around bright objects. I just had the technician come out and he diagnosed it as the Blue CRT needed to be replaced. He said he narrowed it down by switching boards for the other colors and also was somehow able to test the convergence board. Either way I believe him. The total is going to be $800 to fix it. I've pretty much made up my mind that I'm ditching the TV, but does anyone have any suggestions? Even if the suggestion is how do I get rid of a big box in my family room.
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post #812 of 2945 Old 01-05-2007, 10:23 AM
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Also, could someone give suggestions as to a replacement? I'm leaning towards a DLP rear projection either from Mitsu or Sony from the little I've researched thus far in the same size range. (pioneer is no longer going to be a product I ever buy again, 5 years and my 5K TV is a piece of junk even if it was really good during that time.)
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post #813 of 2945 Old 01-05-2007, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctvince View Post

So, I resoldered my power supply board (Pro 510) a couple months ago and got rid of my brightness/flashing problem. Well, three or four weeks later something else started going on. I was getting horizontal lines near the top and bottom and my blue was acting whacky. It is way out of focus and would keep popping back into focus and then out of focus especially around bright objects. I just had the technician come out and he diagnosed it as the Blue CRT needed to be replaced. He said he narrowed it down by switching boards for the other colors and also was somehow able to test the convergence board. Either way I believe him. The total is going to be $800 to fix it. I've pretty much made up my mind that I'm ditching the TV, but does anyone have any suggestions? Even if the suggestion is how do I get rid of a big box in my family room.


I was all set to do this on a Mit with the same symptoms recently, and found that the anode cap wire - the thick red one that carries the 30KV - was not making proper contact with the flyback or HV distributor, where it was plugged in.

I unplugged it from there an examined the plug itself, and found tarnished evidence of arc'ing, plus it was bent over, at an ineffective angle, not allowing complete contact in there.

I burnished it up till it was shiny again, straightened out the plug metal part, re-inserted it, and everything worked smoothly from then on. Have not heard from that customer since. About a year ago.

Don't know, but you might want to check that out before junking your $5K set.


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post #814 of 2945 Old 01-05-2007, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctvince View Post

Also, could someone give suggestions as to a replacement? I'm leaning towards a DLP rear projection either from Mitsu or Sony from the little I've researched thus far in the same size range. (pioneer is no longer going to be a product I ever buy again, 5 years and my 5K TV is a piece of junk even if it was really good during that time.)

DLP, thousands of tiny mirrors.... imagine trying to get the dust off those mirrors over time. Stick with LCD or Plasma IMHO.
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post #815 of 2945 Old 01-05-2007, 02:41 PM
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Mr. Bob,

Where would that wire be? Is it running to the Blue CRT? I'll take a look tonight and see if I can locate it and see if there is a similar evidence of arcing.
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post #816 of 2945 Old 01-05-2007, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post


Don't know, but you might want to check that out before junking your $5K set.


Correction what used to be a $5k set, and that was quite awhile ago. And I'm sure I was not the only one that did not pay anywhere near MSRP for my set. Lets face it, sooner or later if faced with certain high repair charges it can rapidly reach a point to where these sets are just not worth repairing anymore.
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post #817 of 2945 Old 01-06-2007, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctvince View Post

Mr. Bob,

Where would that wire be? Is it running to the Blue CRT? I'll take a look tonight and see if I can locate it and see if there is a similar evidence of arcing.


One thick red wire goes to each of the CRTs, and implants in the top of each. They all go to a distributor, sometimes within the flyback transformer, sometimes separate from it.

It's where the one from the blue gun plugs into the distributor, of whichever type.


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post #818 of 2945 Old 01-06-2007, 04:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

Correction what used to be a $5k set, and that was quite awhile ago. And I'm sure I was not the only one that did not pay anywhere near MSRP for my set. Lets face it, sooner or later if faced with certain high repair charges it can rapidly reach a point to where these sets are just not worth repairing anymore.


Yes, and hopefully that would correspond to the set actually wearing out.

That point is far from happening on the sets in this thread and the 20s and
30s, esp. in the line this thread is centered on, the 510/610/710 line, the one farthest back. Properly treated, they have an absolute minimum of 10 year lifespan, capable of looking fresh and new at all times during that time span.

The repairs commonly listed on this thread are of nominal cost compared to what the unit cost initially. Not high repair charges. High repair charges would be when a gun goes out, or for any other reason the set needs to be regunned. That usually totals out a set like this. Not the stuff we are seeing here on this thread.


If the fixed pixel competition out there was actually improving over the CRT mode on getting a picture to the screen, I would be in agreement with you, because the marketplace determines the monetary value of something, it's never a set static valuation.

But fully calibrated CRT is still the best viewing out there. And it's not just me saying so. So apples to apples, I think a NOMINAL repair charge on a $5K piece of equipment is worth it. No, not a high repair charge, but yes, a nominal repair charge.

But that's just me...


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post #819 of 2945 Old 01-06-2007, 07:17 AM
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Bob,

What is your definition of "nominal"? I, too, want to keep my set as long as possible, but when is the repair $$ too high on this set (Mine is the 710)?

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post #820 of 2945 Old 01-06-2007, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PamW View Post

Bob,

What is your definition of "nominal"? I, too, want to keep my set as long as possible, but when is the repair $$ too high on this set (Mine is the 710)?


On a set like a 710, I would be willing to go $750-850 for a needed repair, if it were my set. But the repairs listed as needed on this thread I usually remedy by charging travel plus $350 plus parts. Usually the repair end comes out at around $500, which I consider very nominal for a repair on a $6000 unit that is still capable of showing a picture that is even in present day time, better than the one you got out of the box years ago.

Whatever ages on these units ages gracefully, and that aging can be countered by cleaning and calibration till your set is at least 10 years old, under proper usage conditions, and carefulness about screenburn.

If you've taken care of your set properly, it is still capable of a simply stunning picture, rivalling the best new sets out there, and surpassing many of them.

How much is that worth?


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post #821 of 2945 Old 01-06-2007, 01:26 PM
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Thanks, Bob!

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post #822 of 2945 Old 01-09-2007, 12:18 AM
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I have owned a Pro-510HD for about 5.5 years. After about 5 years, I had the "blue flash" and I fixed it myself, using instructions from this website--otherwise I may have simply gotten rid of the set. Well, I have always been impressed with the HD picture, and thought the SD picture was OK, until yesterday. I had calibrated it myself fairly well with the Avia disk, and had surface cleaned my optics once. However, now, all I can say is "wow, I never knew what I was missing"--I am amazed. Why? Well, yesterday, Mr Bob came and calibrated the set, cleaned the optics, and did an overscan reduction on my TV.

The basic cleaning of the optics is included in his basic calibration package (wiping off the top of the lenses and mirrors)(I had done this once before myself about 1 year ago, and it made a nice difference then, but was filthy again), but I also opted for the deep cleaning (removing the lens and cleaning the bottom of it and the convex below the lens)(wow, it was really dirty). I think this made the most "bang for the buck" difference, as the colors are now much more vibrant and alive than ever! If you have only a limited amount of money, at least contact him and at least have him "consult" with you on doing it yourself, or if you can, fly him and and have him do it--you'll be amazed.

The next best thing in my opinion was the calibration itself, which included mechanical focus of the lenses. My red and green were off a bit, and the blue was way off. Using his cantelever technique, he adjusted the red and green lenses to a sharp focus, and got the blue where it needed to be. Once the lenses were focused, he adjusted the convergence and at the same time took in the overscan reduction (overscan reduction was for additional price). With the overscan reduction, I have about 2 more inches worth of picture on the top and sides, and no longer is the scrolling box scores and headline news ticker cut off--it is like zooming out on the picture that is already there, effectively giving you more "pixels" on your fixed screen size. The overscan reduction took quite some time for him to align everything along the perimeter, as it takes in all the errors that are inherent at the perimeter in the design (which is why they overscan the picture to begin with, so you don't see the errors). Finally, he adjusted the greyscale, getting it much more of a true gray and the color/brightness/contrast/sharpness. The basic calibration (everything in this paragraph, except the overscan reduction) was the "second most bang for the buck" in my opinion, and the overscan reduction is a nicety, but certainly not required if you are trying to save a buck.

He was at my house for about 7 hours, and the picture I have right now on HD is absolutely amazing--far better than before (and I thought it was great to begin with)--breathtaking and truly vibrant, and the standard def picture is now great too. Even though he concentrated his effort on 1080i full screen as my primary "scanrate" for the overscan reduction/geometry adjustment/color alignment, the optics cleaning and the focus are both universal in their "help" to the other scanrates (480I/P). I now see why everyone says the CRT is the best out there--I thought they were all crazy until I had it ISF calibrated professionally--Thanks Mr Bob!
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post #823 of 2945 Old 01-09-2007, 03:16 AM
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One of the side benefits Trigger got was that his grayscales on 480i and p got done in the process of doing the HD, even tho he didn't pay for any work on 480. Pioneer HDreadys are built on a "layered" grayscale and colorations system, where STD - S-video - is the basis, and affects all other modes - like the 1080i, 480p and component vs. S. The grayscale for STD is done first because it sets all the others in the process, then I did the HD as well, which is built on top of the STD settings.

The grayscale and color/tint for HD also apply to 480p, so he got those as perks. We didn't do the geometry/convergence on 480, but he can correct that at will in his user advanced grid, at least on red and blue.


After I was done I said, "Let's slide these viewing chairs up a bit." I believe they were at 8' and went to 6', but I'll let him correct me on that if need be. When we did, he sat back and said, "It's remarkable, the picture looks just as good up here." What's that, a 25% increase in viewed picture size? I don't know if he'll keep it that way, as the room ergonomics may not allow for it, but he at least knows he CAN if he wishes!

It was quite a fun job, and the huge 3 course home cooked dinner his wife served all of us was just absolutely mouth watering, please convey that to her for me, Trigger. And your dew on my steak was absolutely fantastic. Solid pink all the way thru, melted in my mouth... I started anticipating every bite...


And thanks for the nod! If between us we can save just a few more Pioneer HDreadys owned by people who are at present still on the fence about whether to keep or trash their sets, your words will have been more powerful than you know.



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post #824 of 2945 Old 01-09-2007, 06:13 AM
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Since my set was repaired, it really looks much better. SD is very good, and HD looks great. Here's my question. On closeup screenshots the picture is stunning, however when images are far away(especially on football games) thier a little blurry even in 1080. Can any adjustments correct this? Also, it looks as though the corners are a little out of focus. Converge is spot on. I really wish I could find a tech in the Chicago area that knew half as much as Mr BOB. Every tech I've talked to wants to either replace parts, or just clean the mirror and leave. They seem to be very uneducated on fine tuning these sets or are just out for a fast buck. Even the tech that resoldered my power board didn't want to look inside. He didn't seem to know anything about adjusting the lense's, So I didn't push him. I was happy to finally get rid of the flashes and the shutdowns. 2 weeks running everyday since the resolder, and not even a flicker.
Not sure what to do next......
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post #825 of 2945 Old 01-09-2007, 07:45 AM
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Mr. Bob,

You are da man! Last friday on your advise I took a look at the cable in the back of the set (red) and noticed a lot of carbon buildup all around the area. I got very excited thinking I might have the same issue as the Mitsu you referred to. I didn't get a chance yet to clean the cable, (been very busy on home project), but I wiggled it a little and then went back to the viewing and lo and behold the lines are gone and the blue intermittent focus is now staying focused. I still have to spend the time and clean the cable and the surrounding area, but I'm convinced this was the issue. Thanks so very much, I really didn't want to go out and buy a new set.

On a side note, when things slow down in a few weeks (before superbowl), I'd like to retain your services as a phone consultation to calibrate my set. What would your recommendation be for my set. Its 5 years old. Just 2 months ago I did the outer lens and mirror cleaning based upon your input. The lens' while dirty weren't terribly so, and the little I could see from the inside lens' didn't seem too dirty either. What would be the most bang for my buck that I can do over the phone?
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post #826 of 2945 Old 01-09-2007, 01:30 PM
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Mr Bob,
Although we could have left the chairs at 5-6 feet, we did move them back so the room didn't "shrink" up so much. I am glad you enjoyed the dinner. I am certainly enjoying my "new" TV!

Joeyz,
The blurry far away images were also what I had, and my user convergence was also spot on, my avia calibration was spot on, but even then it was a major improvement with Mr. Bob's services. I suggest two things depending on your financial situation and mechanical abilities...either contact him and pay a consulting fee to have him help you through a thorough lens cleaning (top of lens and mirror is basic cleaning, but taking off the lenses and cleaning the underside and the convex lens) will help that problem some, and perhaps he can talk you through an electrostatic focus using 3 of the screw in/out electrostatic focus dashpots underneath the front speaker panel inside the wood panel covering (both of these will fix some of your problem, and should make a noticable difference for a relative low amount of money)(it won't help the mechanical focus, but it certainly won't hurt to have at least one of them right on), or better yet... 2) pay to fly him to Chicago and get the whole shebang (see if you can line up a couple of others for him near you, and the travel expenses won't be so much when split).

ctvince,
I was impressed when I had done my outer lens and miror cleaning myself last year. This year I was impressed x 5 when the deeper optics cleaning was done. If you can do the basic, you can do the deeper, especially with his help on the phone. That would be my suggestion to you, and it wouldn't cost very much at all over the phone, I don't think, and would only take you an hour or two start to finish.

Trigger
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post #827 of 2945 Old 01-09-2007, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

I believe that wire clips on up there, possibly on the wire braid that surrounds the CRTs themselves for grounding purposes.

No, you should not need to remove the screen, but if you do, it's not all that big a deal. Just can't picture why you'd have to. Removing the front panel down below, to get to the CRT rears, does not require removing the screen -


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LCK 610HD THANK YOU- Mr.Bob for all your help and all who have contributed to this thread. Pioneer sent another Def. board as the first one was missing a heat sink...I installed it... the 2 red LED lights no longer glowed...but the picture was not working so I removed the PS board again and soldered ALL E PINS and ALL COPPER COILS that i did not do the first time...reinstalled PS board ...PROBLEM SOLVED ...TV WORKS!!! My husband was happy to watch the bowl game (UF & OHIO) in HD...I had never soldered anything before...I'm a housewife, not an engineer....just so you know- this repair is do able(you can't make it worse than it is, if your going to order a PS board anyway give soldering the board a try first...THANKS AGAIN ....LCK 610HD
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post #828 of 2945 Old 01-10-2007, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCK 610HD View Post

LCK 610HD THANK YOU- Mr.Bob for all your help and all who have contributed to this thread. Pioneer sent another Def. board as the first one was missing a heat sink...I installed it... the 2 red LED lights no longer glowed...but the picture was not working so I removed the PS board again and soldered ALL E PINS and ALL COPPER COILS that i did not do the first time...reinstalled PS board ...PROBLEM SOLVED ...TV WORKS!!! My husband was happy to watch the bowl game (UF & OHIO) in HD...I had never soldered anything before...I'm a housewife, not an engineer....just so you know- this repair is do able(you can't make it worse than it is, if your going to order a PS board anyway give soldering the board a try first...THANKS AGAIN ....LCK 610HD



You've never soldered before???

Great work! I'm proud of you! Who says soldering is a man's job, anyway? When I worked at Tektronix, 95% of the board stuffers and correctors - involving resoldering and straightening the components after solder flow - in the section I worked in were women. I and the one other guy there were definitely in the minority.

Another professional grade CRT RPTV saved.

Now clean the optics and get a brand new looking set.


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post #829 of 2945 Old 01-10-2007, 06:34 AM
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Any Pioneer or Mits owners needing Mr BOB's service in the Chicago area, Lets get together and fly him in. If at least 2 or 3 of us get together and pay his airfare we could FINALLY get our HDTV's to look like they were meant to be and smoke all those problematic newer models. I for one am very thankful that Mr BOB is willing to help us. Now...Lets help him out!
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post #830 of 2945 Old 01-10-2007, 07:07 AM
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Well, it doesn't appear I'm totally out of the woods yet. I pulled the cables out of the socket yesterday, cleaned and reinserted. The lines that were present are definitely gone, however, I still have problems with the blue focus. Whenever a bright object appears (especially near the edges) the blue seperates from the rest of the colors by anywhere from .25 to .5 inches creating a blue glow. I've gone into my convergence mode and aligned all my cross hairs, but the blue still separates. Could be my blue CRT is still shot. Mr. Bob, I do notice that there is a large amount of black (I'm assuming carbon) buildup around that "distrubutor" box. There's also something that looks like a transformer on that board that seams to be the originator of all the black stuff. This is right next to the main cable that goes to the other group of red cables. Maybe something is screwy here?

either way, I'm not sure what I'm going to do. My wife doesn't seem bugged by the glow. I might just live with it for awhile just to put off the cost of a new set for that much longer.

Thanks again for all the help. At least with the horizontal lines gone the picture is viewable.
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post #831 of 2945 Old 01-10-2007, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctvince View Post

Well, it doesn't appear I'm totally out of the woods yet. I pulled the cables out of the socket yesterday, cleaned and reinserted. The lines that were present are definitely gone, however, I still have problems with the blue focus. Whenever a bright object appears (especially near the edges) the blue seperates from the rest of the colors by anywhere from .25 to .5 inches creating a blue glow. I've gone into my convergence mode and aligned all my cross hairs, but the blue still separates. Could be my blue CRT is still shot. Mr. Bob, I do notice that there is a large amount of black (I'm assuming carbon) buildup around that "distrubutor" box. There's also something that looks like a transformer on that board that seams to be the originator of all the black stuff. This is right next to the main cable that goes to the other group of red cables. Maybe something is screwy here?

either way, I'm not sure what I'm going to do. My wife doesn't seem bugged by the glow. I might just live with it for awhile just to put off the cost of a new set for that much longer.

Thanks again for all the help. At least with the horizontal lines gone the picture is viewable.


If the blue glow appears on only one side or another of your images, then it's a convergence problem.

If on the other hand this glow appears on ALL sides of a white image, then the focus is still off. Could be the optical, could be the electrostatic. There are 2 focuses for all guns, and all focuses should be tight. Blue defocus is allowable to some degree on the electrostatic, but on the optical/mechanical, it should be just as tight as all the others, preferably via the Cantilever Technique.

Could be you have astigmatism problems and need that realigned. Could be that if yours is a 510, you'll never get all 3 side by side sections - left, center and right - of the blue correctly in focus, because of scheimpfluge issues. The 510 had problems with that, on the way the blue gun/lens assy. was designed. Improperly, on the blue.

It is realignable, but only with lots of work. The angle at which the lens meets the CRT face is off on the 510s, always has been. It CAN be corrected, but most owners leave it alone, because blue is a fill color rather than a structure color.

I hope you are viewing and seeing this objectionable phenom from your normal viewing distance. You'll never get rid of certain anomalies that are seen from 2' away. It's nature of the beast, on all projected material, that you must not get too close or you'll see things you aren't supposed to see when at normal viewing distances.


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post #832 of 2945 Old 01-10-2007, 02:03 PM
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Mr. Bob,

Yes, the blue glow appears on only one side of the image. The further you get to the edge, the bigger the glow seems to be. I never saw this before. Is it possibly from my cable issue? Maybe my resoldering of the back of the power supply board? It seems to grow the brighter the image gets. Any chance this is something that can be handled by myself with your help on the phone?
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post #833 of 2945 Old 01-10-2007, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Trigger445 View Post

I was impressed when I had done my outer lens and miror cleaning myself last year. This year I was impressed x 5 when the deeper optics cleaning was done. If you can do the basic, you can do the deeper...

Would any of you who have done (or observed) the deep optics cleaning care to share how it's done?

I've done every possible tweak to my 610 except the deep optics cleaning. The service manual does not cover this type of cleaning and, while I'm not sure how to disassemble the lenses, I am sure I am capable of doing it once informed.

Noting that AVS Forum is primarily a user-to-user help forum (as opposed to being primarily an advertising venue for people who make a living as calibrators), I ask for instruction in this endeavor.
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post #834 of 2945 Old 01-10-2007, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by bweissman View Post

Would any of you who have done (or observed) the deep optics cleaning care to share how it's done?

I've done every possible tweak to my 610 except the deep optics cleaning. The service manual does not cover this type of cleaning and, while I'm not sure how to disassemble the lenses, I am sure I am capable of doing it once informed.

Noting that AVS Forum is primarily a user-to-user help forum (as opposed to being primarily an advertising venue for people who make a living as calibrators), I ask for instruction in this endeavor.

See page 22 of this thread - post 648.

Pam
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post #835 of 2945 Old 01-10-2007, 08:49 PM
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Mr. Bob,

It seems to grow the brighter the image gets. Any chance this is something that can be handled by myself with your help on the phone?

This would seem to point to internal arc'ing, inside the tube. If you have verified that the plug-in connector to the HV at that tube is not bad or tarnished, looks like you may indeed need a new tube, if the tech actually performed the "switch the CRT socket boards" test already.

You might try switching around the plug-ins on that HV distributor just to make sure the distributor is not at fault. But mark them first so you can put them back where they started, as minute differences in HV between them could cause sizing differences in your scanning, between one color's image and another.


Mr Bob

PS - make sure your blue anode wire is absolutely TOTALLY in. You may have to compare it to the other 2 to be sure, and may have to work the cap on it out from its end a bit, to get it to sink in there properly.

The huge layer of dust you mentioned is not what is causing the problems, and is always there near any 30KV generating device. It's called ionization. You can read about it on my website, if you wish.

Robert Jones
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post #836 of 2945 Old 01-10-2007, 09:15 PM
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(as opposed to being primarily an advertising venue for people who make a living as calibrators)


I invite you to chart my free information on this board and others like it, vs. the information I have asked that you give me something for. I think you will find that the free stuff I have for years taken my precious and irreplaceable time disseminating to all the DIYers who follow this thread and others, has outpaced the smidgen of stuff I have voiced that I would like compensation for, by about 100 to 1.

I also invite you to chart how much I have learned from you guys, vs. how much you have learned from me. Yes, there are valuable things I have learned from you, but again, I think what I have taught you guys vs. what you have taught me would be about a 100:1 ratio.

Please don't begrudge me for desiring to be hired by the tiny percentage of people who read these boards but are not DIYers, nor for desiring to be taken care of, somehow, some way, when I spend hours and hours per week answering your questions with professional grade repair and calibration information. I would have thought those who had been helped by my advice and saved tons of money because of it, would have found a way to willingly give of themselves back to me, somehow, some way. But no, that doesn't happen. They take the information and run. Then I get called on the carpet by you for making a living doing repairs and calibrations and wishing to get a little something in return for it, when I give so much away, that hundreds of others at a time use to their own advantage, without a thought as to how much irreplaceable time it cost me to sit here and type it out, every day. If this is supposed to be a user to user sharing board, where's the love back, in my direction? What have you given back, to those whose words here have helped you?

Yes, I charge for what I do when I can, and I give the rest away. I would think you would be more appreciative of that than I see you as being, here. In fact I would think you would want to shove money at me, if you were really into equilateral exchange, and had saved money somehow, some way, due to my professional advice. I don't see that happening here.

What I see is a something for nothing mentality at work here, in your post where it's obvious that you want to be able to go around me if at all possible, and exclude me from the equation. Not equilateral exchange.

The irony of it all is, Pam directed you to MY post on the subject!

I'll quiet down now...


Mr Bob

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Mr. Bob,

I spent 2 hours last night troubleshooting my 510. I did as you suggested and switched the cables from the distributor and each time the blue still glowed so I knew it wasn't the distributor. My last hope was that it was maybe the connection where the cable meets the gun. It is the most difficult task trying to access that area of the set. If you have any input I would greatly appreciate it. There's a big metal box with all sorts of cards and wires and heat sinks on it right in front(back) of the blue gun. Anyways, I followed the cable by hand to where it connected to the gun and found the rubber boot that covers the connector. I wiggled it a little and was surprised to find that I heard a bunch of metal scraping and it felt really loose. I had to pry off the boot as it appears its siliconed(RTV?) to the gun body. The connector fell right off. Upon inspection it appears the connector hadn't been seated properly in the hole of the gun body and only the boot had kept it in contact. As a result there are a couple holes in the connector clip from the arcing which makes it next to impossible to reinsert properly into the gun housing hole especially since I can't gain easy access to it. I was able to briefly get a decent contact and when I turned on the set the blue was back in focus and not fluctuating, but I could hear the arcing so quickly turned it off and disconnected the clip. Do you or anyone else know of a place I can order a replacement cable? If you're interested I can take a picture of the clip to show the damage, but I've never posted an image on this site before. Also, when I reconnect the clip, what should I use for the silicone around the boot to replace the goop that was there?

Thanks again

Vince
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post #838 of 2945 Old 01-12-2007, 08:31 AM
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Just called up Pioneer. They said that cable was a non suppliable cable, so I'll have to see if I can make it work as it is. Any input as to how to better access that area would be tremendously helpful.

thanks
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post #839 of 2945 Old 01-12-2007, 09:11 AM
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OK, I'm gonna try and post an image of the clip. If it works you'll see the two areas where the arcing has removed material making nice little round cuts into the clip. This makes it really difficult to insert into the socket since those new features act as shoulders.
LL
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post #840 of 2945 Old 01-12-2007, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by ctvince View Post

Mr. Bob,

I spent 2 hours last night troubleshooting my 510. I did as you suggested and switched the cables from the distributor and each time the blue still glowed so I knew it wasn't the distributor. My last hope was that it was maybe the connection where the cable meets the gun. It is the most difficult task trying to access that area of the set. If you have any input I would greatly appreciate it. There's a big metal box with all sorts of cards and wires and heat sinks on it right in front(back) of the blue gun. Anyways, I followed the cable by hand to where it connected to the gun and found the rubber boot that covers the connector. I wiggled it a little and was surprised to find that I heard a bunch of metal scraping and it felt really loose. I had to pry off the boot as it appears its siliconed(RTV?) to the gun body. The connector fell right off. Upon inspection it appears the connector hadn't been seated properly in the hole of the gun body and only the boot had kept it in contact. As a result there are a couple holes in the connector clip from the arcing which makes it next to impossible to reinsert properly into the gun housing hole especially since I can't gain easy access to it. I was able to briefly get a decent contact and when I turned on the set the blue was back in focus and not fluctuating, but I could hear the arcing so quickly turned it off and disconnected the clip. Do you or anyone else know of a place I can order a replacement cable? If you're interested I can take a picture of the clip to show the damage, but I've never posted an image on this site before. Also, when I reconnect the clip, what should I use for the silicone around the boot to replace the goop that was there?

Thanks again

Vince


Wow, man, you did it! That was exactly what I was talking about, only at the other end of that wire. I have never seen it go bad at the suction cup end before, but it makes perfect sense.

That plug-in obviously needs to be tight in there, which is why it is on a spring clip kind of basis. If that spring tension was not ever there, then there would never have been a tight bond between those connections, explaining the holes bit into it by the arcing in there, under the suction cup.

If you widen out the spring clip part to where you can get a nice tight, highly "sprung" fit in there between that clip and what it's supposed to connect with in there, you won't have to buy a new thick red HV connector wire. Sure there may be holes in the clip, but as long as there is enough metal left to form a good strong bond between the metal pieces in there, and to transfer all the HV without breakdown - further arcing - you'll be home free.


The reason it's still arcing in there is because you have disturbed the dried, fully cured silicone seal bonding the suction cup to the glass surface of the CRT. HV is leaking out all around it now, I have seen this happen before. You're not quite out of the woods yet, but you're close. That part of it has to be thoroughly sealed/insulated, or its HV will instantly creep under it and find its way out to the closest ground point.

Bend those spring clips outward to get them to bond as tightly as possible, then go to any hardware store and get some ordinary silicon caulking compound, the kind that sets up nice and rubbery once thoroughly dried. Apply it very thickly all around the edge of the suction cup, then insert the clip into the hole, making that tight bond I was telling you about. Avoid getting any of the silicon on the clips or in the hole itself, because obviously the silicon is a heavy duty insulator, and you want intimate metal to metal or metal to glass contact going on in there inside the hole, undisturbed at the metal parts.

Then let it set up for 24 hours before turning it on again. You can turn it on for just a few seconds for testing, but if you leave it on for any longer than that, the silicon will slowly travel away from the HV, and thin out the thickness you are trying to maintain at the bond between the suction cup and the glass it hits. I have actually seen the silicon move, when turned on before it has had a chance to set up. You may even find arcing going on during this test, but all you want to see is what you tested for already, that the image is stable once again. Should take just a few seconds. Don't take anything as a completely valid test until the goop has had a chance to fully cure.

Replacement of any CRT, even just one of 3, is a major, expensive undertaking, requiring re-setup of that gun afterwards if you're a videophile, on the grayscale and the focusing/geometry/convergence. Usually they just swap it out and let it go at that, techs rarely do the kind of in-depth work you have done. Needing it done usually totals out a set, as owners rarely want to fork over what it would cost to do so. These types of problems are all covered by the new gun having its anode cap already factory silicon'd in place when you get it, ready to install. Most people would take your tech's recommendation as gospel.

You, on the other hand, have proven that your CRT is not bad after all, that it was the wiring going to it that was bad. Shame on that tech, for trying to stick you for an entire CRT replacement and setup set of charges, when this was all it was.


You're on your way to saving your TV. Excellent work.



Mr Bob


PS - just saw your pic, everything I wrote above was before you submitted it. It's different from what I usually see, so scratch some of what I said above.

Can you get me a full-frontal version of that clip? A critical part is not able to show, because of the angle at which you took it.

I usually see a set of 2 of those things in there - sure one was not broken off? You usually squeeze them together when and if removing them, to get the clip/barb sections to the center of the hole, where it is widest. Since there are supposed to be 2 of them and they are of one piece of metal made of steel, one each will hit each side when their springiness expands them properly, which is usually accomplished just by snapping the dang thing in.

If there was never any second one in there, that would explain why this happened - there was never any strong, intimate contact to begin with, it was just floating in there - and was the manufacturer's fault for letting it get installed in that condition in the first place. It is a blatant manufacturing error of the highest sort, and Pioneer should step up to the plate and take care of you on it. Of course we all know the success rate of THAT kind of request of Pioneer...

You can solder something in there to help, there's no heat generated at that part of your set. If you can solder up something really strong in there, like maybe some spring-steel spring that would expand and take up the slack and provide that intimate contact, it might do the trick. Usually that twin set of clips has spring action that embeds it strongly to the sides of the hole. All you need is strong intimate contact. Feel free to get creative now, you're on the home stretch.

Remember, this op is usually never done, and when it is, it is done outside the chassis, where there is ready access. I hope you don't have to remove the CRT array to get to wherever it is you need to get to, because that's a tall order just by itself.

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