Pioneer Elite Pro-510 problem - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 2921 Old 08-05-2004, 05:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by vijaydalal
Blue flashes continue for about two hours and the TV blacks out, total black. I turn the TV off for fifteen minutes. I turn the TV on and it works for fifteen minutes and again blacks out. Please help with any comments and suggestions

Vij ... don't know what to say other than what's been said earlier in this thread. You can try to find someone who will check out the board connections and solder joints or you can go with Pioneer selling very expensive replacement parts through their authorized service companies. Pioneer is not going to own up to any responsibility for this.

As part of the ongoing problems I'm having, now my Pioneer DVD player has decided it will no longer read DVDs. Is it any coincidence that the DVD player lasted about as long as the Monitor? I'm starting to see a theme here. I have a DVD player that I purchased when DVDs first came out that is still working (Sony). I bought the Pioneer for the progressive scan, which the Sony doesn't have.

I can say that without a doubt I will never purchase another Pioneer product.

DJ
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post #62 of 2921 Old 08-05-2004, 06:09 AM
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I had a convergence problem (reds going out of whack) shortly after the warranty expired. They were good enough to give me one free repair even though it technically wasn't under warranty. Unfortunately, the problem was intermittent and either the service people couldn't diagnose the problem properly or didn't fix the right thing because the problem reoccurred. And, unfortunately, Pioneer wouldn't help me further. Certainly, I won't attempt to fix it again because repairs are expensive and the warranty on repairs is so short (30 or 90 days.....can't remember)....not to mention they didn't get it right the first time.

I too won't purchase another Elite nor will I purchase another TV so expensive. I think there are reliability issues throughout the industry and spending $5K or more seems a bit foolish to me. Whatever the replacement, I'll have an extended service policy to protect me from these crazy repair costs.
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post #63 of 2921 Old 08-05-2004, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by DanP
I too won't purchase another Elite nor will I purchase another TV so expensive. I think there are reliability issues throughout the industry and spending $5K or more seems a bit foolish to me. Whatever the replacement, I'll have an extended service policy to protect me from these crazy repair costs.

Maybe so for HD sets. I have a Toshiba 35" that I bought at least 10 years ago. Only had to repair it once ... when a freak lightning storm blew out all ungrounded electronics in the house. I spent less than $2,000.00 on the Toshiba, back when 35" was a pretty good size set. That's the kind of reliability I expected out of Pioneer. Sadly disappointed.

DJ
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post #64 of 2921 Old 08-10-2004, 06:02 AM - Thread Starter
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I have a repair guy coming out today ths is NOT affiliated with Pioneer. I'm going to ask him to do what Sawmill's repair guy did. Check the board in the back of the set where the power cord comes in and possibly resolder where needed. Hope this works because my blue flash problem is getting worse.

DJ
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post #65 of 2921 Old 08-10-2004, 06:27 AM
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DJGUY: Im very anxious to hear how this goes.

I had a local, non-authorized repair guy in a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, it was before I discovered this thread. Naturally, he couldn't replicate the problem on that visit, but I'm not sure what he looked at. It only happens often enough to drive me nuts.

I'm really not willing to spend $500-$1000 repairing a set that was built almost 5 years ago. By the same token, I can't see leaving the set on the curb either.

Please keep us posted on your experience today.
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post #66 of 2921 Old 08-15-2004, 06:22 AM
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Folks, I am another one with the very same problem with my 610. It comes and goes. Do you think it would help if we sent them a email containing this hole forum?
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post #67 of 2921 Old 08-15-2004, 06:41 AM
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Found this from the Keohi Site. Is this the same problem?

Tear/Flash Problem


<< Back to Pioneer Tips


The problem as described by Pioneer owners and the fix:


Owner 1


"What I see periodically is a very fast, usually light colored flash that goes upward somewhat from left to right, with several shorter lines that radiate from the bottom of the large one, downward and to toward the left. It's somewhat like a momentary breakup of the horizontal sync.


It's so brief that it's easy to miss, but I definitely see it on my x510, which was manufactured in Dec 99'. It ONLY occurs on NTSC, never on HD, and I'm so happy with the set otherwise I just haven't got myself worked up to put the heat on the dealer or Pioneer to get it resolved. I would like to get it resolved, but I guess I also have some misgivings about letting anyone touch the set."


Owner 2


"The flash/tear problem on the x10 series supposedly has been taken care of. My 710 has no flash/tear problem. It is my understanding that the older 510 & 610's had a flash/tear problem. Pioneer has identified the problem and it is a simple fix that the local service center could order the parts and fix. A lot of people that purchased newer 510 & 610's have posted in the forum and have said that they are not seeing the flash/tear problem."


FIX to the Flash/Tear Problem


"There is a fix by pioneer for the flash tear problem. It is their "service information" memo No. SI-H54078-G dated Feb. 10, 2000. The service remedy includes changing a resistor (RSV16S4715) and adding a capacitor (CKCYB222K5). They also have to readjust the H-phase because picture will shift horizontally after applying the fix."


The service bulletin states that it is applicable to the 510HD, 610HD, *AND* SD582 and SD532 models._ The 710HD is NOT mentioned in the bulletin.


Here is an account by Charles Ledbetter:


"I had my 610HD repaired today for the flash/tear problem. It's unquestionably fixed. I sat in front of it for several hours afterwards and it never flashed once. It's never gone that long since the day I bought it.


As stated before, the repair is a resistor and a capacitor. The resistor is TINY. So small that the technician took my board back to his shop so he could solder it under a magnifying glass._


The repair DID NOT reset any factory defaults. All settings and convergence were just as they were before the repair.


This problem has been put to bed."
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post #68 of 2921 Old 08-15-2004, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by gary miller
DJGUY: Im very anxious to hear how this goes.

I had a local, non-authorized repair guy in a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, it was before I discovered this thread. Naturally, he couldn't replicate the problem on that visit, but I'm not sure what he looked at. It only happens often enough to drive me nuts.

I'm really not willing to spend $500-$1000 repairing a set that was built almost 5 years ago. By the same token, I can't see leaving the set on the curb either.

Please keep us posted on your experience today.

The repair guys came out and I showed them sawmills post. They looked at the board where the electrical cord goes into the set and they were able to see the blue flash by tapping on the board. They said it looks like there are some problems on the board and they took the set with them as they don't do the work in-home. Cost to repair including initial visit, transporting the set to and from the shop and repairing the board - $499.00.

At least these guys were open to suggestion rather then the previous repair guys who just wanted to replace the most expensive board in the set with no guarantee that would fix the problem (which it probably wouldn't have).

They still have the set and estimated 10-14 working days before I get it back. I'll report back on the results once I have the set back and watch it a couple of days.

BTW - the room I had the set in was a tight fit to get it out the door. The repair guy took the plastic panel off the set and promptly broke the set's internal mirror. I looked at the panel after he smashed the mirror and it said NOT to remove the panel as it holds up the mirror. This does not give me great confidence in their abilities. They promised to replace the mirror and check for and fix any other damage that might have been done when the mirror fell inside the set. I'm OK with that as long as they fix what they broke at no charge to me.

Here's the scorecard:

2 different Pioneer authorized service companies - both FAIL miserably
1 non-Pioneer authorized service company - mixed results, no final score yet.

DJ
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post #69 of 2921 Old 08-15-2004, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by macav
Found this from the Keohi Site. Is this the same problem?

Tear/Flash Problem


<< Back to Pioneer Tips


The problem as described by Pioneer owners and the fix:


Owner 1


"What I see periodically is a very fast, usually light colored flash that goes upward somewhat from left to right, with several shorter lines that radiate from the bottom of the large one, downward and to toward the left. It's somewhat like a momentary breakup of the horizontal sync.

From this description, it does not sound like the same problem. I have never seen any lines radiating out nor is the flash "light colored", it's always a brilliant blue.

I'm not saying the problems aren't related, I'm going to pass this info onto the service folks working on my set.

Thanks for the info and the great site (Keohi).

Jerry
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post #70 of 2921 Old 08-18-2004, 06:34 AM
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My recollection is that the flash/tear problem came from Pioneer's progressive "purecinema" circuit. This circuit is bypassed automatically in HD mode. You can bypass the circuit for DVD by using a progressive player.

I wish this blue flash issue was as simple to cure.
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post #71 of 2921 Old 08-18-2004, 09:31 AM
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I have a 710 with same prob, pioneer repair guy, declared it a HIGH VOLTAGE BOARD! on order for 2 months!! No part yet!
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post #72 of 2921 Old 08-18-2004, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Zorro ... I think your guy got it right. That's probably the board my service people are repairing.

Just curious, how much are they going to charge you for the board and for the installation?

Jerry
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post #73 of 2921 Old 08-18-2004, 11:19 AM
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Well, well, lucky I found this thread. My TV (510) has also been showing these symptoms over the last month or so. I think I will try my hand at looking at it thanks to Ming's advice and see if it improves before following up with Pioneer as it seems they are doing a less than stellar job of satisfying its customers who have spent a fair bit of coin on these TVs.
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post #74 of 2921 Old 08-18-2004, 11:34 AM
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jerry, check ur pm!pls
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post #75 of 2921 Old 08-18-2004, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by Jehan
Well, well, lucky I found this thread. My TV (510) has also been showing these symptoms over the last month or so. I think I will try my hand at looking at it thanks to Ming's advice and see if it improves before following up with Pioneer as it seems they are doing a less than stellar job of satisfying its customers who have spent a fair bit of coin on these TVs.

Yeah for a problem they keep saying they've never heard of, this one appears to be common. Damn good thing we can talk to each other and get to the bottom of this. Thanks for nothing Pioneer.

Jerry
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post #76 of 2921 Old 08-18-2004, 08:38 PM
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I have the same problem as described here in my PRO-610 that I bought in June 2000. The screen contrast brightens up and then drops to normal and then up again. After a while the set shuts off, probably due to fault protection. I called my dealer and his service tech wasn't very familiar with the problem. He said it could be a board or the power supply or cold solder connections. I wanted to find out what was wrong before he starts charging $75/hour for troubleshooting outside the warranty period. My PRO-610 was manufactured in May 2000. Can others please post their manufacture dates here?

I got tired of this problem and put the set in the garage and covered it up. Then I bought a new 62" Mitsubishi DLP, but I'm still interested in fixing this set after spending nearly $6000 plus another $700-$900 in ISF calibration. As another poster said, I have too much time and money in this set to simply leave it out on the curb or put it on Ebay for the parts.

Since so many people are experiencing this problem, Pioneer should fix it for us or take it back from us and give us $2000. However, I doubt this will ever happen.
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post #77 of 2921 Old 08-19-2004, 06:50 AM
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RSG: My set was built in November of 99.

Is it fair to assume that the "high voltage" board is synonymous with "power supply" board?
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post #78 of 2921 Old 08-19-2004, 07:44 AM
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A friend of my mine has the standard 53" non-elite Pioneer that was bought in Dec 1999 from Onecall.com and he purchased a 5 year warranty as well. He had the same problem and the authorized service tech came out to his place and claimed cold solder connections on multiple boards. He went over several boards with a soldering gun and now my friend has his convergence screwed up, but apparently this flashing contrast has stopped. I don't know what the tech fixed (messed) up by doing this, but the tech won't come out any more saying the problem is fixed.

I'm kind of pissed off at Pioneer.
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post #79 of 2921 Old 08-19-2004, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't know about the problem being caused by cold solder. I usually don't experience the flash until the set has been on for some time. I would buy loose solder as the cause maybe.

It appears the common thread is the power supply or high voltage power board. Not sure if they are different boards or one in the same.

Pioneer wants us to basically rebuild the sets starting with the most expensive board and working our way down. The told the 2nd service guy I called out there was no question it was the video sub-assembly board. I checked Pioneers parts list for this set and, of course, the video sub-assembly is by far the most expensive part.

It's a huge understatement to say that I'm disappointed with Pioneer and the games they are playing with their customers. I didn't realize they were so hard up they were willing to take us for a ride, even if it costs them future business.

I've already started replacing Pioneer components in my home system. As the Pioneer components fail, they will be replaced with their competitor's components. It's just my way of saying Thank You Pioneer for all you've done.

Jerry
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post #80 of 2921 Old 08-19-2004, 11:00 AM
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Jerry, do u have part # name! ur service guys r thinking of replacing?

I saw power supply board is $299
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post #81 of 2921 Old 08-19-2004, 05:30 PM
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Jerry: I also thought there was a correllation between warm up time and flash incidents. Lately, though, the flashing regularly occurs the moment I turn the set on. I usually try a "re-set" by turning the set off for 15-20 seconds. Sometimes the symptoms will reappear immediately. Other times it won't manifest itself again for hours.

I own a number of vintage B&W movies on DVD. This type of program material seems to agitate the flashing symptoms more readily then anything else. Perhaps the high contrast nature of B&W cinematograpghy presents more of a burden for the power supply.
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post #82 of 2921 Old 08-19-2004, 08:30 PM
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I called Pioneer authorized repair service center and explained my blue flashes and screen black out problem. I also sent to link to our forum. Three days later he told me that he called Pioneer and they told him to replace all three CRT Board, cost around 450 to 500. That will take care of my blue flashes, no guarantee it will work. My Second problem screen blacks out. He told me that I don't know how to fix. He does not want to visit my home unless I agree to replace CRT Boards.
I told him, when I am ready to pay your visit charges, you suppose to come my home check the problems, give me estimate in writing with warranty on your parts and labor, he refused.
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post #83 of 2921 Old 08-20-2004, 03:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Zorro, no I didn't get the part number before they took the set. They are not actually replacing it. They said they repair boards at the component level, so they will fix it not replace it.

It's the board where the power cord comes into the back of the set. The board resides in the lower right corner after you take the back panel off. It's easy to spot, lots of large heat sinks attached to it.

Jerry
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post #84 of 2921 Old 08-20-2004, 10:32 AM
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i asked my guy, he said, expected in one more week, they call it DIGITAL BOARD? LOL
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post #85 of 2921 Old 08-24-2004, 07:20 PM
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Does anyone in this thread have any updates on their findings with this issue?

I'm experiencing the same flickering on my Pro610 and am extremely frustrated by it, and it seems to be getting worse day by day. At first I only noticed it on SD signals but now it is prevalent on HD and DVD inputs as well.

I'm probably going to have a tech come out and look at it later this week but I'd like to know what to have them look for and/or do if anyone else finds out anything. I'll post what I find out as well.

Thanks,
Jeff.
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post #86 of 2921 Old 08-25-2004, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by vijaydalal

I told him, when I am ready to pay your visit charges, you suppose to come my home check the problems, give me estimate in writing with warranty on your parts and labor, he refused.

That doesn't seem right. I would think that Pioneer will want to know about this. If not, then we have even less reason to be a repeat customer of theirs.
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post #87 of 2921 Old 08-25-2004, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by DanP
That doesn't seem right. I would think that Pioneer will want to know about this. If not, then we have even less reason to be a repeat customer of theirs.

Vijaydalal, I agree with Dan, this does not sound right at all. I would not use a service company that makes demands. Unfortunately, I don't think you will get far by complaining to Pioneer. I've been there done that. I was told by Pioneer's complaint department that if I had a problem with a service company that they wanted me to file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. They evidently will only take a complaint as being serious if you, the client, goes through the BBB first.

Pioneer gets low marks in every contact I've had with the company's 'Customer Service'.

Jerry
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post #88 of 2921 Old 08-25-2004, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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The independent service company I hired to finally make repairs on the set, returned the set last night.

They said they re-soldered most of the joints on the power supply board and found one bad capacitor, which they replaced.

So far I have not seen the blue flash problem since I got the set back. If I see it come back I'll let everyone know.

Jerry
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post #89 of 2921 Old 08-25-2004, 09:13 AM
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My pioneer service guy said, soldering is not a permanent solution, it could re occur!
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post #90 of 2921 Old 08-25-2004, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by zoro
My pioneer service guy said, soldering is not a permanent solution, it could re occur!

That doesn't surprise me. Is he willing to guarantee a "permanent" solution?

If the soldering and the capacitor replacement fix the problem, that's what I am looking for.

So far Pioneer is batting zero on this problem. Most of their service people have no idea how to fix it, but they are quite willing to sell $650.00 boards in case that "might" be the problem.

Jerry
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