Pioneer Elite Pro-510 problem - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 2921 Old 08-25-2004, 06:19 PM
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I had my service guy come in and follow the process outlined by Ming and Sawmill. In short, he was able to easily replicate the flashing by tapping on the heat sinks before re- soldering and re-seating the connections on the board. He agreed that some of the original solder points looked suspect. He spent the better part of an hour on the board. He completed his work, tapped on the heat sinks and the flashing was gone.

I've been watching the olympics all evening in HD without blue flash disruption, so I'm cautiously optimistic.

Zoro, I don't know why a soldering solution would be any less permanent then the factory solder, which took more then 4 years to fail.

I'm grateful you guys shared your experiences here. I'm hopeful it saved me the frustration of a very expensive authorized Pioneer fishing expedition.

Thanks!
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post #92 of 2921 Old 08-25-2004, 07:07 PM
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Just a thought - I used to have a NEC many years ago that had issues with solder connections. I re-flowed the connections and got out the old IR thermometer. Turns out the heat sinks were not big enough and the joints got too hot and eventually failed. After the second repair I bought a very quiet fan and positioned it to blow air across the area (easier than finding a bigger heat sink). I did not have another failure until I gave the TV away (replaced it with a 710). YMMV
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post #93 of 2921 Old 08-25-2004, 07:48 PM
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Gary, how much is charge for soldering? and particularly, which board?
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post #94 of 2921 Old 08-26-2004, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by zoro
Gary, how much is charge for soldering? and particularly, which board?

I was charged for a "house call" which was less then a hundred dollars.


There's been some confusion here about the nomenclature for this board. My repair guy referred to it as the "power supply" board. In passing, when I referred to it as a "high voltage" board, he corrected me. He indicated it was actually a low voltage board. I don't know the official Pioneer part name, but he agreed there was no reason to replace it. In any case, it is indeed, as Jerry pointed out, the board located inside the set where the power cord enters. There are heat sinks next to it.

I can't comment on a potentially defective capacitor. It was never discussed in my case. So far, so good though. I'll report back if the flashing re-occurs.
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post #95 of 2921 Old 08-26-2004, 05:23 AM
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By the way, this was the 2nd house call, so I actually paid twice. The first time was before I discovered this thread. He couldn't replicate the problem and I wasn't much help. In fairness, he made no guarantees prior to each visit. I agreed to those terms. He did seem pretty confident though, after yesterdays visit, that the problem was solved. Time will tell.


I probably would have paid more for the repair if everything was done in one extended visit. In any case, I thought the guy was quite fair and he seemed quite competent.
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post #96 of 2921 Old 08-26-2004, 07:14 AM
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I understand, house call cost!! How much additional for soldering including call
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post #97 of 2921 Old 08-26-2004, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Zoro, he's already told you. The cost of the soldering was included in the house call charge.

UPDATE: Had my set back a couple of days now, still no blue flash. Picture looks great.

Jerry
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post #98 of 2921 Old 08-26-2004, 09:50 AM
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so around $15-$200 fixed? am I right?
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post #99 of 2921 Old 08-26-2004, 04:11 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by zoro
so around $15-$200 fixed? am I right?

Yes, under $200.00 fixed...at least I think it's fixed.

On the other hand, the authorized Pioneer guy talked in circles. I called him twice but he never got back to me with an estimate or game plan. Instead, I simply found a guy that was skilled with a soldering gun and knew his way around a circuit board. He came at my insistence and didn't take advantage. I was fortunate.
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post #100 of 2921 Old 08-27-2004, 03:05 PM
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My 510HD also began displaying the intermittant blue flash problem a few months ago. I see the problem on all of my video inputs, and have even seen it on inputs where the component (such as my DVD played) is off. Switching to a "dead" input while the problem is occuring clearly demonstrates that the problem is happening in somewhere in the blue CRT. The flash is blue and the variable brightness and/or contrast also has a blue tinge.

This seems like some sort of power fluctuation to me but I have no idea how to fix it or work on my TV.

I've already spent a little over $200 at an authorized service center. They resoldered some of the connections (supposedly at the advice of Pioneer tech support) and the set was fine for a few weeks. Unfortunately the problem has recently occurred much more frequently (perhaps 10 - 15 times per day) so I had the service center pick the set up earlier this week. The service tech called me today and said that Pioneer tech support suggested that he replace "two circuit boards". When I asked him how much it was going to cost he said $1600! I told him there was no way I was going to put that kind of money into this set when a new CRT RPTV can be had for that much. The service tech was also shocked at the high price of these replacement components. He said Pioneer had a "board level replacement policy" when it came to repairing faulty components. So much for taking the time to figure out which component is faulty! The service tech suggested I complain to Pioneer customer service because he felt that there were probably some simple (and cheaper components) that were at fault.

I called Pioneer customer service (1-800-PIO-NEER) and spoke to a woman named Felicia. She gave me case # 169971 and told me that she would look into why the service center didn't work this out with part/tech support. Essentially I was left feeling that it was "not my business" to get in the middle of a "dispute" that was occurring between

She said she would into it with the tech support folks at Pioneer and she would call me back in 2 or 3 working days.

I'm going to send this thread to the service technician. Maybe he can also mess around with the connections near the heat sinks.

Please make sure that if you have this problem that you call Pioneer customer service and receive a call number. I'm sure they will need a high "frequency of occurence" in order for this issue be investigated properly by their engineers. We should also try to get our service techs talking to one another. My service center is:

TVCR, Inc.
(561) 795-2500

I've also made a captured the problem on home video. I'll try to upload it to a web site so others can use my video for reference. Stay tuned.
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post #101 of 2921 Old 08-27-2004, 05:12 PM
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I called Pioneer, they didnt have damn clue!! asked me to call service centre!

But service centre give u warranty of their work for 3 months! you should get refund for faulty repair and donate TV to charity! and Live HAPPILY thereafter!lol
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post #102 of 2921 Old 08-28-2004, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by siloreed
My 510HD also began displaying the intermittant blue flash problem ... Switching to a "dead" input while the problem is occuring clearly demonstrates that the problem is happening in somewhere in the blue CRT. The flash is blue and the variable brightness and/or contrast also has a blue tinge.

This seems like some sort of power fluctuation to me but I have no idea how to fix it or work on my TV.

I

Silo ... the blue flash is definitely NOT somewhere in the Blue CRT. It's on the low-voltage power supply board (the first board where the power line comes into the back of the set).

Pioneer's stock advice is to replace as many expensive boards as possible. They are not interested in fixing the problem, at least your problem. They seem more interested in re-selling us the sets one piece at a time.

So far several of us have had success with service techs (non-Pioneer authorized) who were willing to listen to us and really look at that low-voltage power supply board. Once they resoldered the connections the blue flash went away. In my case the tech also replaced a capacitor.

I've contacted Pioneer's complaint department multiple times. I talked to a supervisor there for over 30 minutes the last time I called. His job evidently is to stonewall non-warranty customers and make sure we don't insult his dignity. He told me Pioneer's priority was to maintain good relations with their service centers over good relations with their customers. I can see why, how else are they going to keep the high priced, unnecessary replacement parts shipping to ignorant customers such as ourselves?

I've had it with Pioneer and their authorized service people. I found a place here in Dallas that will fix a board at the component level rather than start replacing the guts of the set willy nilly. My suggestion to you is to do the same where you are at. If you can't get that kind of service out of the company that picked up your set, find another. There's no sense in paying good money for replacement parts that aren't going to fix the problem.

The more I hear from people in the situation we are in, the more I have come to believe my original investment in Pioneer gear was a mistake. It's a mistake I will never again make.

Just replaced my Pioneer DVD player with a Samsung. Pioneer's short-sighted policy of screw the customer will come back to bite them on the rear end.

Jerry
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post #103 of 2921 Old 08-28-2004, 01:39 PM
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I agree, no pioneer TV etc for me either!! Being their prices so hefty upfront, showing back, is absolute disgusting!
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post #104 of 2921 Old 08-30-2004, 01:36 PM
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I shared this thread with the technician servicing my set. He says that he is unable to reproduce the problem by tapping on the heat sinks as in MSL's message.

I just got off the phone with Pioneer customer service. They claim they are aware of this problem and this very message board. They also claim that there may also be a fix in the works but can't promise when the fix will be. They claim that I will be called back when they have more information.

I still have my fingers crossed.

Here is a 2 MB video clip that demonstrates my problem:
http://bellsouthpwp2.net/s/i/siloree...%20problem.wmv
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post #105 of 2921 Old 08-30-2004, 02:46 PM
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thats great siloreed!! it is absolutely pathetic, that pioneer gave only 4 years life span to their mega bucks sets!
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post #106 of 2921 Old 08-30-2004, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by siloreed
Here is a 2 MB video clip that demonstrates my problem:
http://bellsouthpwp2.net/s/i/siloree...%20problem.wmv

Siloreed, after watching your video, the problem your set has is the EXACT same problem my set was exhibiting. The tech who can't replicate the problem by tapping on the heat sinks is either pulling your chain or he's not trying hard enough. This is the problem several of us have had fixed by addressing the problems on the low voltage power supply board (solder joints). It's a relatively inexpensive fix, provided you don't let them talk you into unnecessary repairs.

Good luck.

Let us know if Pioneer ever claims to come back with a fix. We could save them the time as we already know what it is ... despite their best attempts to tell us otherwise.

Jerry
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post #107 of 2921 Old 08-31-2004, 05:06 AM
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I'll second Jerry's sentiments. My tech had no problem replicating the flash by tapping on the heat sinks. More importantly, once the soldering was completed, the flashes were gone. Perhaps you can ask him to check while you sit in front of the set.

Pioneer's position seems unfathomable, especially because the fix is relatively simple.
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post #108 of 2921 Old 08-31-2004, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Anyone know a good lawyer who might be interested in a class-action suit against Pioneer?

If we are getting this kind of response just on this forum, you know the problem is pretty widespread with these sets. This problem is not what I would consider "normal wear and tear", but more accurately I would consider it a design flaw or production flaw.

Pioneer not wanting to even acknowledge the situation, then trying to take advantage by selling high-priced boards that won't even fix the problem really aggravates me.

I'd be happy to sign up for some litigation against these folks.

Jerry
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post #109 of 2921 Old 08-31-2004, 06:49 AM
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siloreed,

I have the EXACT same problem on my PRO-610. Eventually the problem gets worse and the set has fault protection which causes it to shut down.

I'd like to be part of a class action suit as well.
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post #110 of 2921 Old 08-31-2004, 09:31 AM
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I' am with you by all means!!
This is outrageously ridiculous value for my 8 grands!
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post #111 of 2921 Old 09-03-2004, 03:20 PM
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Hi,
I have a Pioneer Elite Pro510HD that has a problem described below. It seems similar to what you folks are discussing...

Problem:
Started initially with getting a loud popping sound and loss of video and audio. I had an authorized service center look at it. They replaced the main card (that's what they told me). The problem persists, except that the loud popping sound is gone. Now only the video and audio are lost. Leaving the TV off for a short time (5-10 min) fixes the problem. But it can repeat itself quite quickly. Does not hapeen all the time and hence the service center is unable to pinpoint the exact cause.

From siloweed's movie clip about this problem it seems like the same problem like what's being discussed here.


Thanks
- Premal
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post #112 of 2921 Old 09-03-2004, 03:27 PM
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Guys is there any way to calcuate value of used televisions? If I wana dispose it!! as my pioneer service guys are NO SHOW on repeated calls!!

Time to buy new set, soon after CEDIA!!

Pioneer..HANDS OFF!!
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post #113 of 2921 Old 09-03-2004, 03:40 PM
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Thanks to Siloreed for pointing me to this forum. I have just sent this link to my service technician...let's see what they do with it. Please keep posting anything you find on this issue...and I'll do the same.
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post #114 of 2921 Old 09-03-2004, 11:07 PM
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I thought I'd update the site. I came home today and after reading the posts on this thread...I just kicked around the side/rear of the tv and was able to reproduce the problem. It went of, kicked a little bit again and the picture was back...I am certain the problem that's been happening on my TV is the same as the one being discussed on this thread....

Can someone confirm that by resoldering the low voltage part mentioned in this thread the problem does go away...I really don't want to give any more money to Pioneer...

thanks much.
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post #115 of 2921 Old 09-06-2004, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by premald
Can someone confirm that by resoldering the low voltage part mentioned in this thread the problem does go away...I really don't want to give any more money to Pioneer...

thanks much.

I can confirm that after my service repair people serviced the low voltage board, the blue flash problem has not returned.

I am 100% sure the problem has been fixed by resoldering the board.

Good luck.

Pioneer sucks.

Jerry
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post #116 of 2921 Old 09-07-2004, 05:26 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by premald
Hi,
I have a Pioneer Elite Pro510HD that has a problem described below. It seems similar to what you folks are discussing...

Problem:
Started initially with getting a loud popping sound and loss of video and audio. I had an authorized service center look at it. They replaced the main card (that's what they told me). The problem persists, except that the loud popping sound is gone. Now only the video and audio are lost. Leaving the TV off for a short time (5-10 min) fixes the problem. But it can repeat itself quite quickly. Does not hapeen all the time and hence the service center is unable to pinpoint the exact cause.

From siloweed's movie clip about this problem it seems like the same problem like what's being discussed here.


Thanks
- Premal

Hi Premal: I never experienced the loud popping sound, but, then again, I bypassed the internal audio day one.

If you want to spend a lot of money and time replacing CRT's, associated housings and boards, that's your call. If I hadn't discovered this thread that's what I would have done.. or left this set for dead.

However, I haven't had one incident of "blue flash" since the day my tech re-soldered the low voltage board. As far as I'm concerned, the case is closed.
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post #117 of 2921 Old 09-07-2004, 05:45 PM
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well, i am giving it away, nefore it pops!
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post #118 of 2921 Old 09-10-2004, 07:51 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by gary miller
Hi Premal: I never experienced the loud popping sound, but, then again, I bypassed the internal audio day one.

If you want to spend a lot of money and time replacing CRT's, associated housings and boards, that's your call. If I hadn't discovered this thread that's what I would have done.. or left this set for dead.

However, I haven't had one incident of "blue flash" since the day my tech re-soldered the low voltage board. As far as I'm concerned, the case is closed.

Hi Garry,
Thanks for replying back. As I had mentioned earlier, the popping sound has gone and based on siloreed's video I confirmed that the problem is what's being discussed here. Unfortunately I had already spent some money trying to fix this problem but to no avail. Since they had a 30 day warranty on the work they are still willing to look at it. ...based on this thread (which I sent the tech)...we are going to be soldering the low voltage supply boards today...I am really hopeful that this problem will be gone after today....
Thank you
- Premal
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post #119 of 2921 Old 09-10-2004, 11:47 AM
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I had the tech come out today. We were able to see the blue flashing as soon as he started tapping on the low voltage power supply (at various places). He took the board off and soldered some stuff. Didn't help still had the problem. At this point he sprayed some coolant (that freezes the components to -85 degrees). As soon as he sprayed it on/near the white connectors area the problem stopped happening.
He removed the board again and resoldered the connector part of the board and since then the problem does not seem to happen.

The TV is going to be on for the rest of the day...let's see if this problem is gone. If I don't see it for a few days...I'll post back the status for the others....

Hope this helps

Thanks again to all.
- Premal
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post #120 of 2921 Old 09-10-2004, 12:08 PM
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Does anyone have the service manual in a PDF file that shows the PRO-510/610/710 low voltage power supply board? It would be of great help.


Thanks,


rsg_1...
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