Pioneer Elite Pro-510 problem - Page 69 - AVS Forum
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post #2041 of 2939 Old 09-28-2009, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brando1 View Post

A few days ago I decided to give the service menu a go... Without a service manual I didn't want to get started in that whole ordeal...
Any idea ... what service code I could tinker with on my settings to correct this.
Any help would be much appreciated.

Jason

Jason, do not fool around in service mode without the service manual. It's not a service "menu"; there is no menu. It is truly opaque. Even with the service manual, it's not easy to navigate. You need the manual just to begin to understand what the remote's buttons do in service mode.

You can buy the paper manual from Pioneer (recommended; it's thick) or download a bootleg copy from the 'net (not recommended; it's copyrighted). Just don't leave home without it.
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post #2042 of 2939 Old 09-29-2009, 03:22 AM
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Thanks for the tip bweissman. I'm planning on having a pro stop buy and finally get this overscan problem straightened out and hopefully get this TV calibrated to it's true potential. I just hope the typical TV repair man has the knowledge to tackle the job.
I want to hang on to this TV for as long a possible before going the plasma route.
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post #2043 of 2939 Old 09-29-2009, 04:04 AM
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Its hard enough to figure out the service mode WITH the service manual, I'd never go in there without it.

Its been said by Mr Bob that the easiest way to reduce overscan is the shimming mod.

Dale
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post #2044 of 2939 Old 09-30-2009, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Tried to get some today, the closest outlet is in Eugene Oregon, and they wanted over $200 for something like 18 cases, as it is a special order.

There are also sellers on Amazon that have them if you only want to buy just one box, and for under $10.
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post #2045 of 2939 Old 09-30-2009, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brando1 View Post

Without a service manual I didn't want to get started in that whole ordeal so I reset the horizontal and vertical to stock settings.

You may want to at least D/L the service manual for the x10 series sets, most of the adjustment information should be the same as for the x20 series. And if nothing else, it's certainly a LOT better, than having no service manual at all!

http://www.mediafire.com/file/320o0qiyzmy
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post #2046 of 2939 Old 09-30-2009, 01:44 PM
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Thankyou for the link John....I appreciate it.
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post #2047 of 2939 Old 09-30-2009, 01:58 PM
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Cleaned my optics yesterday for the first time ever on my 510. Heart was pounding the whole time cause I didn't wanna screw up anything! Anyways, thanks to you guys and the service manual that was made available, I never felt like I was outta my league.

Things that surprised me...

--My mirror wasn't dusty at all. Cleaned it anyway, but despite shining the flashlight on it and giving the finger rub, it was pretty clean.

--I was warned about dropping screws, and I didn't. But there was this little rod coming between the red and green guns the made removing and replacing the back corner screws of those guns a nerve racking experience for me. Normally I'd use a magnetic tipped screw driver, but I erred on the side of caution knowing there's magnates in the TV. You guys can tell me if I was being silly or not.

--Removed the lens pack and wasn't expecting the almost cup like final lense. Debated for a few minutes whether I was supposed to be cleaning it or not (it needed it) cause I don't recall anyone mentioning a lens of that deep a concave. Then I fretted about how much spray to use. Might have used a little too little on that first one, but the rest of them I foamed up pretty good.

Hard for me to judge how well I did with the physical clean. I saw streeks and things that on a film camera lens I'd have gone to town on, but here I just worried I'd scratch things.

Convergence went well. Never knew the proper way of doing it till I read the service manual, breaking the screen up into quadrants, then color, and ONLY doing verticals, then doing horizontals. Made it much easier, and more accurate then I've ever been. Also, doing it with before putting back on the anti glare screen, man that saved my eyes!

So I snapped some before and after pics using everyone's favorite Fifth Element scene...



My black level was at 10, I turned it back down to 0, which was where it was at when first calibrated 9 years ago. Debating whether that's too dark or not.



I didn't time code for exact screen shots, so that might explain the sudden appearance of her right eyeball, but I love how inky the blacks are again in general.



Here's where I'm really not sure about the black level. Top pic, you can see her face and more white of her outfit. Bottom the face is not really visible, and the white is fairly shadowed (again this might be due to them not being exactly the same grab), but it's so much crisper now. In the below pic it's a case of seeing the policeman's eyes or not. When in motion I didn't have a problem with it, so I don't know.



This one illustrates one of the things that really made me wanna clean the optics. See how the bright white light halos in the top pic? I cropped it out of the photo, but it was haloing into the letterboxing! Whenever there'd be a scene with someone standing in front of a bright window, they'd just be a silhouette. Working in the camera department, I know most cinematographers would have exposed for this. So I figured it was the dust on the lens causing this. Happy to see that with the cleaning, no more halo!

Little bummed that I didn't get rid of this small blemish that is visible in the lower portion of my screen (no pic), as it is now obvious it's not any of the lenses. Must be on one of the mirrors underneath somewhere. I'm not going there! Also, I think I've now made the minor screen burn in I have from stupidly watching things in 4:3 even more prominent. It's really only visible with almost white screens, but more so now. Oh well, what am I gonna do. I can live with it.

Think I'll save up for the HDFury2 over there at Monoprice now that I have a PS3, and then think about forking over the bucks for a proper calibration again. Then again, the overscan is driving me nuts these days too...
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post #2048 of 2939 Old 09-30-2009, 08:41 PM
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I'm very much in the same situation you are shutyertrap. I had my set calibrated several years ago but I was never fully happy with the result. I tinkered with the adjustment box inside the tv and have things looking much better...stunning really, although the blacks seem a tad too dark.

I had the service Tech out today to help with my overscan issues and from what he explained, it's a major undertaking with these sets. Not only did he want to charge me 500.00, he also needs to have the entire set hauled into his shop. The day this set leaves my house is the day it's gone for good. Can't even begin to imagine the hassle of loading this beast in my truck without damaging the hell out of the casing.

Unless I get a magical visit from mr. Bob, I'd say this is as good as it gets untill I decide to make the jump to flat panels. I love this set to death and hate the thought of seeing it retire early but the overscan issue is starting to get to me.
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post #2049 of 2939 Old 10-01-2009, 04:53 AM
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How to take care of overscan: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1129740

Dale
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post #2050 of 2939 Old 10-01-2009, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

You may want to at least D/L the service manual for the x10 series sets, most of the adjustment information should be the same as for the x20 series. And if nothing else, it's certainly a LOT better, than having no service manual at all!

http://www.mediafire.com/file/320o0qiyzmy

Will this manual also work for the 710? It lists the 510 and 610 but not the 710. Is there much difference?

Thanks
Zip

Thanks
Ken T
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post #2051 of 2939 Old 10-01-2009, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brando1 View Post

Hi Bob, quick question for you or any one who can offer some help. I have a Pioneer elite pro 520 that is in great working shape.
A few days ago I decided to give the service menu a go and adjust the overscan problem I get while watching dvd's or playing my 360. I wrote down my starting points incase I had to abort and soon noticed that when I had the picture where it needed to be to fit the frame, the convergence was out of wack. Without a service manual I didn't want to get started in that whole ordeal so I reset the horizontal and vertical to stock settings.
After doing so I noticed the picture is now darker than it once was. I have to adjust the brightness much higher than normal to get a watchable picture on certain games or programs. Colors are all true as they have always been but the black level seems to be somehow set very low.
Any idea what could cause this or what service code I could tinker with on my settings to correct this.
Any help would be much appreciated.

Jason

Anytime you come back out of sm the User settings auto revert back to midpoint. At your Elite set's age the pic will not only be dirty as all getout, but dim as well, needing the realignment of the Screen controls I perform in my calibrations when needed - which is at all times on these x10 Elites.

So you were prolly running your Black Level at plus 12-15 before, and now it's back to 0, which is way too low at your set's age without the Screen trimpot realignment. It takes a special sequence of registers to get the brightness changed, and unless you did that, your sm br will not have changed.

I can coach you in that realignment over the phone if you wish.


b

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post #2052 of 2939 Old 10-01-2009, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brando1 View Post

Thanks for the tip bweissman. I'm planning on having a pro stop buy and finally get this overscan problem straightened out and hopefully get this TV calibrated to it's true potential. I just hope the typical TV repair man has the knowledge to tackle the job.
I want to hang on to this TV for as long a possible before going the plasma route.


Do NOT go with the typical repairman! The net is rife with horror stories of what happens when you do that. If you do and have to be bailed out, it's much more expensive to first undo the damage they have done and start over, than to simply have a CRT grade calibrator do it from scratch OOB.

There are very few CRT capable calibrators left, most have moved on to the much easier to do - and less time consuming - flat panels to calibrate.

I am one of the few left who has dedicated himself to carrying on CRT's blazing tradition till there are no more of them. Please consider flying me in or find someone else to fly in, WHO IS TRULY QUALIFIED TO CALIBRATE THEM. The learning curve on them is immense, and most repair techs have their hands full just doing repairs, have no time nor patience for that CRT learning curve, where the image STRUCTURE is handled. I and and an even smaller number of select calibrators - count them prolly on one hand - are the only ones who do both repair and calibration.

Chances are you'll have to fly somebody in, one way or the other.


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post #2053 of 2939 Old 10-01-2009, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip41 View Post

Will this manual also work for the 710? It lists the 510 and 610 but not the 710. Is there much difference?

Thanks
Zip

Only differences will be in the sizes of the guns, lenses, mirrors and screens. The electronics and sms are the same for all 3 sizes.

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post #2054 of 2939 Old 10-01-2009, 01:17 PM
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Thanks for the info Bob...I may take you up on that phone consultation. I wish I'd known about the factory reset when you enter the service menu. I'd never have tinkered with it if I knew.
You are correct about the CRT based knowledge of the typical TV repair man. I knew I was in trouble 5 min. in with this guy. He offered no helpfull insite and basically was trying to push me to upgrade with a newer (flatter) model.
$45.00 house call for basically nothing.

Thanks too for the link Mt-goat. Interesting stuff.
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post #2055 of 2939 Old 10-02-2009, 05:11 AM
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Just sent an email to you.

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post #2056 of 2939 Old 10-02-2009, 05:13 AM
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Sorry, email for Bob.

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post #2057 of 2939 Old 10-02-2009, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brando1 View Post

I wish I'd known about the factory reset when you enter the service menu. I'd never have tinkered with it if I knew.

Actually it just resets the USER settings to OOB, which is midpoint on all bargraphs. Not a factory reset, tho there may be one in there. Personally if there is, I don't want to know how to spring it!




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post #2058 of 2939 Old 10-07-2009, 03:04 PM
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Hi everyone,

I'm a proud and frustrated owner of the 710. After trying all sorts of voodoo magic short of sacrificing a goat, I finally stumbled across this forum and was relieved to find others too had the blue flicker + pop/shutoff problem.

As I understand it, in 90% of the cases, all I need to do is re-solder the PS board and the problem will go away. I'd like to, if possible, resolve the situation myself (can't afford to lose this TV, or pay for repair services at this point).

Thing is, I have no soldering experience, but I have been looking up guides/video tutorials. The other problem is, I'm completely lost as to what I'm looking for even after I remove the PS board. I've seen pictures in this thread of the board and its removal, but I'm not sure what I should be trying to resolder. Anyone that can point me in the right direction? (I'm horrible at visualizing, so pictures would be a big help).
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post #2059 of 2939 Old 10-07-2009, 03:28 PM
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Welcome Richard!

I don't know what others will say, but I'll tell you as another proud 710 owner - I know how much this beauty cost me in the beginning. A good soldering job is only a flash in the pan compared to having to purchase another set! I would not begin my soldering career on this set. And I consider myself handy. Pay someone who knows what they are doing.

Pam
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post #2060 of 2939 Old 10-07-2009, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Nguyen View Post

Thing is, I have no soldering experience, but I have been looking up guides/video tutorials. The other problem is, I'm completely lost as to what I'm looking for even after I remove the PS board. I've seen pictures in this thread of the board and its removal, but I'm not sure what I should be trying to resolder. Anyone that can point me in the right direction? (I'm horrible at visualizing, so pictures would be a big help).


The power supply board in these Pioneer sets, or any other circuit board for that matter. Is NOT the kind of thing you want to try and learn how to solder on! Very sloppy work or overheating the parts while trying to solder them has the potential to kill the boards and also make them if not unfixable, at the least very expensive to have someone else take over and try and correct any gross errors that were made in trying to solder it.

Again! If you have no experience at all in soldering circuit boards, these boards are NOT the things to be trying to learn on! But if you still want to try doing it yourself, find some junk circuit boards to practice on first! But for someone with no soldering experience at all, the best bet is, take out the board yourself, and have someone else who has experience in soldering printed circuit boards do the actual re-soldering on it.
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post #2061 of 2939 Old 10-07-2009, 11:16 PM
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Not only that, but what happens when you accidentally leave a solder bridge in there that you couldn't see, and you blow your set up (techspeak, of course... ) FAR too much is riding on this one op to allow it to be done by anyone unqualified to get it done right. Stop messing around with DIYer consciousness on something like this. Don't even THINK of resoldering this board yourself if you've never soldered before. One false move and your entire set could be toast.

I have been saying for years on this thread, don't try this if you're an amateur. ONLY qualified experienced professionals should attempt this repair, and most qualified locals only resolder the presently relevant points, leaving tons of other points to go bad later. The points they resolder stay because they did a good job on them, but other points go out later and you're back where you started. I have personally resoldered many boards sent to me in this condition, where the boards treated by local repair personnel worked fine for a couple of months and then went bad again. I see the meager number of excellently done solder joints that made the set work again, and know exactly why it didn't last - 99% of the solder conns on that board need it, not 10%. Nor 20%, nor even 85%. 99%, including 100% of the joints in the original defective solder flow op which have not been resoldered yet except for heat sinks and test points.

If left untended these points eventually cause a hinky connection in just the wrong place and cause a lightning bolt to be sent down into the rest of your set. That's what spikes are, and line conditioners are dedicated to keeping them away. No line conditioner can protect you from spikes sent out by the power supply board itself tho, which is far downline from the conditioner and takes over where the conditioner leaves off. There is no protection from spikes PRODUCED by the PS board. The rest of your set, fed completely - and directly - by the PS board, is open and completely vulnerable to anything sent out by the PS board, including spikes caused by intermittent connections.

These are tremendously sophisticated sets, and were not designed to be operated on poorly connected, intermittent power supplies that cause huge spikes when the connections start to go hinky. They were designed to be operated on rock solid power supplies, that never waver and never vary. Even using your set in the condition you've described is literally playing Russian Roulette with it. ANY set in this condition needs to be turned off immediately if not sooner, unplugged, and not allowed to warm up to cruising temp again AT ALL until this instability situation has been totally remedied. Not partially. Totally.

There is no substitute for getting the resolder op done correctly, either by yourself if you are a professional grade solderer, or by a local tech if he will take direction on EXACTLY how and how much needs to be done, or by me. If you want it done right, send it to me and I'll take care of it. My boards don't go out again later. Many on this thread have sent their boards to me, and they are very happy campers right now.


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post #2062 of 2939 Old 10-08-2009, 07:50 AM
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Great, I'll be watching for it -

b

Bob,
I put the PS bd back to my 510-HD within 30min, watched TV for 4h last night and 1h this morning. The set had no problem at all. I guess it is no surprise for you, just add one more success in your record. I had the faith too but little bit concern the twisted picture (missing horizontal sync' as you diagnosed) which I haven't see it before in the forum, and afraid it could be something else. Bob, it is no doubt you are the master for those set, not saying this is your only fieldthough. Now I think I will be worry free at least for few years, and anything happed it would be somewhere else, not the bd for sure. And I know there are someone I can always count on, thank you Bob and mt_goat! You guys rock

John
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post #2063 of 2939 Old 10-08-2009, 10:12 AM
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Sorry, email for Bob.

J

Please ID yourself on the email you sent. I have no idea who you are and have no idea whether any of the emails I HAVE received mighta been from someone who MIGHT be you! The initials JCBM and name John just don't give me much to go on...




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post #2064 of 2939 Old 10-08-2009, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBM View Post

Bob,
I put the PS bd back to my 510-HD within 30min, watched TV for 4h last night and 1h this morning. The set had no problem at all. I guess it is no surprise for you, just add one more success in your record. I had the faith too but little bit concern the twisted picture (‘missing horizontal sync’ as you diagnosed) which I haven’t see it before in the forum, and afraid it could be something else. Bob, it is no doubt you are the master for those set, not saying this is your only fieldthough. Now I think I will be worry free at least for few years, and anything happed it would be somewhere else, not the bd for sure. And I know there are someone I can always count on, thank you Bob and mt_goat! You guys rock

John

Glad I could help. Still not sure exactly who you are and what the sit is/was or which listing in my owner's book will turn out to be you, but glad I could help anyway!



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post #2065 of 2939 Old 10-08-2009, 10:43 AM
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Glad I could help. Still not sure exactly who you are and what the sit is/was or which listing in my owner's book will turn out to be you, but glad I could help anyway!



b

Bob,
I'm the one who sent the bd to you for re-solder 2 weeks ago. You did it and sent back to me yesterday. If you check the previous forum back to page 67 #1998 with the ID JCBM, you will see all the talks back and forth that how I got my problem and how you guys (you and mt_goat) instructed my got the bd out...

Sorry for the confusion and thanks again for all the help!




John
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post #2066 of 2939 Old 10-08-2009, 12:11 PM
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Again, you did quite a service for us by posting your pic of that sideways picture, those slanted lines. First time I remember seeing it here on this thread. Good to know all it takes to cure that is the resolder op.



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post #2067 of 2939 Old 10-15-2009, 12:48 AM
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I decided to try my hand at this repair job after all. Thanks to the information littered throughout this epic thread (and some youtube tutorials on soldering), I managed to go through and resolder the PS board on my 710. I am happy to report that my 710 appears to be alive and well, without any of the blue flicker/pop/screen shutdown that plagued it before.

Admittedly, this should have been left to a professional (or at least someone with soldering experience), but if you're low on cash, 20 dollars on soldering gear and a few hours of your time might be the ticket to salvation ... or tanking the whole thing altogether. Beginner's luck in my case, I guess.

It's a very satisfying experience if you're feeling adventurous.
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post #2068 of 2939 Old 10-18-2009, 01:50 PM
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So Bob, when will you be venturing south to Los Angeles next?

Our Fire Staion was given an 510HD by someone who "upgraded to LCD". It came without a remote and badly in need of calibration and even more importantly, of your handiwork. During the next few days I'll be reading all of this thread in hopes I can try a little DIY. But if you were ever in the area...

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post #2069 of 2939 Old 10-18-2009, 04:21 PM
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Fly me in. It's cheap, between LAX and OAK. Love to come down and seeya -



b

PS -

You'll need the official remote to do any calibration on it. Not some universal, the real thing. If you can't score one, you need to at least borrow one from someone, for my trip to be worthwhile -

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post #2070 of 2939 Old 10-20-2009, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post

Cleaned my optics yesterday for the first time ever on my 510. Heart was pounding the whole time cause I didn't wanna screw up anything! Anyways, thanks to you guys and the service manual that was made available, I never felt like I was outta my league.

Things that surprised me...

--Removed the lens pack and wasn't expecting the almost cup like final lense. Debated for a few minutes whether I was supposed to be cleaning it or not (it needed it) cause I don't recall anyone mentioning a lens of that deep a concave. Then I fretted about how much spray to use. Might have used a little too little on that first one, but the rest of them I foamed up pretty good.

Then again, the overscan is driving me nuts these days too...


Thanks for sharing your experience. When you cleaned your lenses did you take the lens barrel apart and clean each of the lenses, or did you just remove the lens pack for the base and clean the top and bottom lenses ?

When I last looked at my lenses I noticed the red and green lens pack have a piece of silver metallic tape, about a quarter inch wide and 2 inches long going across the lens (should of taken a pic - sorry). Is this tape stripe normal ? I was tempted to disassemble the lens pack/barrel to take it off, but thought I better check here first before I get that involved !

My picture looks fine, except there is a light yellowish/red patch about 3 inches wide near the center of the screen and I'm wondering if its because of this tape ? The patch is not usually noticeable unless the screen is white, so it's annoying when watching a hockey game (with the white rink).
Appreciate your help and thoughts.
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