Pioneer Elite Pro-510 problem - Page 89 - AVS Forum
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Old 04-23-2011, 03:21 PM
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Hi Bob,

I am original owner of a PRO510 and a long time member here. I replaced a power board 5 years ago. I shamed Pioneer into sending me a new or refurbbed for $100.00 and installed it myself. The lens have never been cleaned. We use the set to watch about 1 hour or so a day and it stays unplugged when not in use.

I think there is life left in the set but lately it looks dull. I would like to take a shot at cleaning the lenses and whatever else would help bring back the picture but I'm not sure where to begin.

I read as many of the posts possible and this thread is soo long the search engine doesn't seemed to lead me to what I'm looking for.

I know that the front screen has to come off to get to the lens and I've pulled the trim and know where the screws are, but I want to tread very slowly since my tendency is to go rough and learn thru mistakes, not a good method in the case of this old set

Any assistance on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 04-23-2011, 05:35 PM
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If you don't find what you're looking for or don't trust what you do find, I am a specialist at all phases of bringing your set back alive, including the permanent cure for the intermittents should they come back, warranteed for the life of your set once I have done the required repair work. We have seen a lot of the Pioneer replacement PS boards go bad again later. I cure that, and permanently.

Examples of my calibration work can be readily found in the screenshots I have downloaded on page 45 of this thread, including curing that dimness/dullness you've mentioned, on exactly your vintage and model of set. Curing that current dimness your set has right now is one of my specialties, and optics cleaning is not enough to accomplish that, even tho still critically needed as part of what does cure it. I do this on location, or I do some of the highly critical parts of it by phone, live with you on the other end.

Your set is ready and waiting to look 10 times better than it does now and many times better than you have ever seen it before as we speak, even at its current age. These are permanent sets - they are not getting old, they just need the touch of the master's hand. Contact me if you want to know more. By email or phone, no PMs please -

b

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Old 04-25-2011, 12:40 PM
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Examples of my calibration work can be readily found in the screenshots I have downloaded on page 45 of this thread
But this is page 45 we are on now
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Old 04-25-2011, 02:11 PM
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Hello all,

I have new problem with my 720HD

I re-soldered by power supply board back in June of 09 and the set has been working flawlessly until last week when it started shutting down about every 15 minutes.

I took the board out, check it, re-soldered a couple of suspect spots put it back in worked great for about 4 hours then started again.

So this weekend I puled the board out once more and went over the whole board again, de-soldered and re-soldered some spots etc... It turned in to a nightmare, I had a problem with bridging at between two of the tiny solder joints, during de-solder and re-solder of those spots several times to get it right one joint would no longer take solder. Fortunately it was a jumper so I was able to bypass it.

Anyway some six plus hours later I re-installed the board and it was working great, even the image seems a bit better. However after about 12 hours of use it started shutting down again.

I turned it off and powered it down via the front button for 5 minutes and was able to turn it back on but again shut down in 15 or so minutes. I decided to try powering it down and then unplugging it for a while. I plugged it back in and power it back on and it has been working fine for several hours.

I am by no stretch an expert but this leaves me to believe that there must be a build up of electricity over time that is causing the problem and unplugging it allows that electricity to dissipate.

If I am right would it mean I have a bad capacitor or am I completely off base?
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Old 04-25-2011, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
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But this is page 45 we are on now

No, we are on page 89.



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Old 04-25-2011, 04:37 PM
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Hello all,

I have new problem with my 720HD

I re-soldered by power supply board back in June of 09 and the set has been working flawlessly until last week when it started shutting down about every 15 minutes.

I took the board out, check it, re-soldered a couple of suspect spots put it back in worked great for about 4 hours then started again.

So this weekend I puled the board out once more and went over the whole board again, de-soldered and re-soldered some spots etc... It turned in to a nightmare, I had a problem with bridging at between two of the tiny solder joints, during de-solder and re-solder of those spots several times to get it right one joint would no longer take solder. Fortunately it was a jumper so I was able to bypass it.

Anyway some six plus hours later I re-installed the board and it was working great, even the image seems a bit better. However after about 12 hours of use it started shutting down again.

I turned it off and powered it down via the front button for 5 minutes and was able to turn it back on but again shut down in 15 or so minutes. I decided to try powering it down and then unplugging it for a while. I plugged it back in and power it back on and it has been working fine for several hours.

I am by no stretch an expert but this leaves me to believe that there must be a build up of electricity over time that is causing the problem and unplugging it allows that electricity to dissipate.

If I am right would it mean I have a bad capacitor or am I completely off base?

Yours is a 720 rather than a 710, so has special considerations that have to be addressed that the 710 did not have. Have you addressed them? Is your PS board vertically mounted or on the floor of your set?

Did you follow the advice given in the early pages of this thread by others, or do it the way I instruct you to on these later pages? If you followed that early advice instead of mine, that would explain what you're experiencing.

I have not noticed this phenom with any of the many many boards I have resoldered over the past 4 years.

Feel free to send it to me and let me look at it and test it on my test 610. Contact me directly, no pm's please -


b

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Old 04-26-2011, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Yours is a 720 rather than a 710, so has special considerations that have to be addressed that the 710 did not have. Have you addressed them? Is your PS board vertically mounted or on the floor of your set?

Did you follow the advice given in the early pages of this thread, or do it the way I instruct you to on these later pages? If you followed that early advice instead of mine, that would explain what you're experiencing.

I have not noticed this phenom with any of the many many boards I have resoldered over the past 4 years.

Feel free to send it to me and let me look at it and test it on my test 610. Contact me directly, no pm's please -
b

It is vertically mounted, I am going to pull it once more give it one more go over and if it continues I will contact you about sending it to you for testing.

Thanks!
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Old 04-26-2011, 02:45 PM
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Please don't touch any other board in there! Just had a call today from a guy who allowed his set to be in this intermittent condition for way too long, then skipped what I wrote about never finding cold solders on the deflection board, so he tried resoldering that board as well and when he turned it on again, things had now gone from bad to worse.

Please heed the latest information on this issue in this thread, if you don't want to have to take your set to the next level of repair, as is now the case with his set, which is now completely unresponsive to turn-on commands. Pretty much everything you need to know is contained in the last few pages here.

b

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Old 04-29-2011, 08:36 AM
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Forgive me, we've been very busy here so I just looked it over and the last few pages really don't cover what you need to know. You'll probably have to go back as many as 10 pages, maybe more. Just don't follow the advice in the early pages where various individual specific points are mentioned as needing attention. If they are part of the active, directly connected circuitry and have not been resoldered yet by now, they all do. Each and every affected solder joint in there needs to be resoldered, regardless of how many and how small they are. It is a long and tedious process, but what else is new?

The entire Power Supply board was compromised at the factory with solder that was too thin and those joints are giving up the ghost all over the boards now. As such with very few exceptions the entire PS board needs to be resoldered. Doing so will completely restore it and it will last indefinitely, just like the 100% performance all the other boards in there have been delivering all along. There are lots of boards in there, all of which have been performing at 100% all along and will continue to do so indefinitely.

I guarantee it for the PS board, as long as I am the one on the case for you. If anything like that happens again on your PS board, no matter how many years later, I will correct that condition again on your PS board for you, no charge. I can offer that lifetime guaranty because I know that doing so will leave me next to no work at all to do in the future on this issue, as long as I was the one who resoldered your PS board in the first place. Yes, I have resoldered that many PS boards in the last few years, whose owners are even as we speak enjoying their sets every day now, effortlessly. As I have said many times over the years, these are hardy, permanent sets. CRT - not just Pioneer, but all brands - was designed and produced in an era where things were built to last, unlike the fragile and highly disposable sets being sold new today.


BTW, I was just sent something printed on Just Answer.

Contrary to the advice of another very seasoned and experienced repair tech on Just Answer, no the PS board cannot be trusted if all you resolder are the currently affected joints, in fact doing so actually puts your set in more danger than it was in before, because it exposes your set to the much more damaging joints that go bad later. If it's in its early stages, those intermittents you are experiencing are valid warning signs because they don't usually damage your set, they just let you know something's wrong and that something definitely needs to be done before you keep using your set and exposing it to unspecified but still very real dangers. The ones that start to go bad later, since you didn't heed the warning signs or only resolder what's bad now, are the damaging ones and can take your set down hard.

So heed the warning signs! If your set is currently exhibiting the symptoms of cold solder joints on the power supply board - blue flashes, fluctuating brightness, lack of picture or sound while running or even actual shut down - STOP USING IT! Unplug it and don't allow it back up to normal operating temperature - EVEN ONCE - unless and until repaired PROPERLY. Cold solder joints start to let go and do their damage ONLY ONCE YOUR SET HAS HEATED UP thru normal operations. So don't keep your set on for more than 40 seconds from dead cold - for testing only - during the duration of this very dangerous set of circumstances, which has the power to become a potentially catastrophic event and even total your set if your finances cannot withstand the onslaught of the more serious of repair bills. Nipping it in the bud keeps your repair bills low and entirely affordable, bordering on negigible compared to what you originally paid for your set. In fact the decision to do what's necessary when in the early stages is an incredible no-brainer, all things considered.

And no, the deflection board does not need attention unless damaged by the PS board's cold solder joints. It does not develop cold solder joints on its own in the course of normal operation like the PS board does. Neither does the convergence board. None of those boards in there do, except the PS board. If your set is experiencing those dangerous intermittents, leave all the other boards alone! Concentrate ONLY on the Power Supply board, the one at the end of your set's wall power cord, the one that plugs into your wall outlet. The less messed with in there the better, esp. if you are not a trained and experienced service technician.

This is a cardinal rule for service repair technicians who do this kind of work every day, and should be heeded by everyone: always leave alone whatever can be left alone! Any time you dive into circuitry you risk opening a can of worms and suddenly having a lot more on your plate than originally intended.

So focus ONLY on the PS board in this case.



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Old 05-02-2011, 12:52 PM
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Bob,

I have searched the forum for any clues and am at a loss. Any ideas? How does your over the phone service (help) work?


Original PS problem .. fixed (worked for several days), Then STK392 replacement (worked for several days, then used genuine Sanyo parts and worked again for several days again), then no picture (audio and onscreen menus ok).

Thanks
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:02 PM
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Sounds like you may have missed the power connection that supplies that particular circuit. I have had several boards be sent in where the pic had disappeared yet the rest of the set worked properly, and that always gets fixed in the boards done by my methods.

The rest of it seems to be working, so what you missed seems to be limited, fortunately.

Be sure to get beneath those white caulking globs, there are critical points under there. And the big soldered Philips screw head - heat it up and tighten it just a bit while the solder is still molten, before allowing it to cool again.

You can't miss even one of the critical points that is giving way - of the hundreds - for your set to continue to work properly 100% again and from then on, which is what happens when I do the PS board and for which I warranty that job for life. You got to do everything I do, to get the results I get.

My over the phone coaching service has a one hour minimum, but if it takes less than an hour on the first call, whatever remains of that first hour is able to be used up after that, at any time. After the repair coaching, we do the optics cleaning, then the optical focusing, then perhaps we realign out that dimness of the pic that happens on your vintage of unit at this age, restoring that dynamic punch you haven't seen in years. Then we see what needs attention next. One hour goes fast, when you're doing it right...

Good luck and keep us informed -

b

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Old 05-04-2011, 08:34 AM
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Mr. Bob, This is slightly off topic, but what do I need to do to remove the front screen form my PRO-710? I removed the four screws under it and it will pivit out from the botom, but it is stuck or still attached at the top and not lift off if the cabinet. Thanks
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:12 PM
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Yeah, those fit really tight, and when you force them they would seem to want to break. Haven't had one break yet, but have had them be so tight as to take their brackets with them, tearing up the wood those brackets are screwed to. New positioning of the brackets is the answer to that one.

To get that frame off, you got to get one side up first, then the middle, then the other side. There are 3 brackets across the top that keep the view screen to the bulkhead.

I abruptly pull the right side upward from/at the bottom corner of the frame, which carries the impact straight to the top corner of the frame. If it does not give way the first time, try and try again. When done a couple of times with increased impact, this always frees up that entire corner. I then reef up on that corner gently but steadily till the middle gives way, again abruptly with each push/pull.

Then the third one gives way, once the other 2 are free. Keep as sharp an angle going as you can, at all times.

Then before removing those brackets at the top, remove the single set screw in the left hand bracket and place it in the same place on that bracket as where the other 2 brackets have their screws.

Once you get the frame off, you'll find that the viewscreen will stick at the bottom. This is because they used electrical-type tape down there, and you'll need patience to finally get it out. Put a strong upwards pull on it, and wait for it to finally give way. May take 10-15 seconds.

Use cloths or linen gloves to make sure you don't get skin grease on that viewscreen when you handle it.

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Old 05-06-2011, 07:05 PM
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Thanks Bob for the great information. I am sure that it will go back on as tight as it came off, but now I have an idea of how to do it without breaking anything.
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Old 05-07-2011, 09:04 AM
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Great. Let us know how it turns out.

Found an error in what I wrote above about viewscreen vs. frame, just corrected it. Might want to re-read it.

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Old 05-08-2011, 10:43 AM
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Great. Let us know how it turns out.

Found an error in what I wrote above about viewscreen vs. frame, just corrected it. Might want to re-read it.

b


Thank you, I will read it. What is the talk on this link about raising the guns two inches?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1067572

It looks like it will help with the overscan to get more of the picture in view.
And I notice on my set the picture has a slight bow on the center of the top, bottom and sides of it pulling in to the center of the picture. I do not see this when watching High-Def programs, mosly in the information bar and non high-def programs. Thanks
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Old 05-08-2011, 10:13 PM
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Right, it's the best possible method for overscan reduction, or o'scan redux.

SD and HD have completely different memory banks on most sets, so one of them could have some pincushion present at all the edges while the other does not.

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Old 05-09-2011, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
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Sounds like you may have missed the power connection that supplies that particular circuit. I have had several boards be sent in where the pic had disappeared yet the rest of the set worked properly, and that always gets fixed in the boards done by my methods.

The rest of it seems to be working, so what you missed seems to be limited, fortunately.

Be sure to get beneath those white caulking globs, there are critical points under there. And the big soldered Philips screw head - heat it up and tighten it just a bit while the solder is still molten, before allowing it to cool again.

You can't miss even one of the critical points that is giving way - of the hundreds - for your set to continue to work properly 100% again and from then on, which is what happens when I do the PS board and for which I warranty that job for life. You got to do everything I do, to get the results I get.

My over the phone coaching service has a one hour minimum, but if it takes less than an hour on the first call, whatever remains of that first hour is able to be used up after that, at any time. After the repair coaching, we do the optics cleaning, then the optical focusing, then perhaps we realign out that dimness of the pic that happens on your vintage of unit at this age, restoring that dynamic punch you haven't seen in years. Then we see what needs attention next. One hour goes fast, when you're doing it right...

Good luck and keep us informed -

b
Bob,

Went over every pad on the PS board and removed and redid all places covered by Silicone as well as re-tigthened soldered screw. Still no video, but I did notice the guns do emit a very small amount of light.

I checked all the connectors, etc, especially to the video boards.

Sad to say still no change.

I am at a loss.
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Old 05-10-2011, 12:24 AM
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If you want to send me both the conv and the PS boards, I will check them out on my test 610 if you'd like. That way, by the process of elimination we can begin to pin down exactly where the problem is.

b

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Old 05-12-2011, 07:18 PM
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Great. Let us know how it turns out.

Found an error in what I wrote above about viewscreen vs. frame, just corrected it. Might want to re-read it.

b
Mr. Bob, I took your advice and lifted the right corner with a quick straight up fast jerk and it came off the clip with no problems at all, then the center and left side came off like a breeze. I could not believe how clean the mirror and guns were since they have never been cleaned.
This set must be built like a tank because over the past 12 years I moved it in a semi trailer from Michigan to Nashville Tennessee, back to Detroit Michigan in a semi trailer and then from Detroit to Kalamazoo in another semi trailer. I am done moving now, so it should last me a good long time now.
Thanks again for your help.
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Old 05-13-2011, 03:42 AM
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To see how really dirty those lenses are, you need special methods. Just observing from the front is not nearly enough.

Take a very strong flashlight, and shine it at a steep angle from the side of each lens onto that lens, in your darkened room. Then look from a moderate angle as well. You will see how thick the layer of impediments - the blanketing of dust, soot, lint, grit etc. - is. I usually lick my finger and draw a happy face in that dust, just to make my point. Not dry - you gotta lick your finger first, you don't want to scratch anything...

Then do the same with the flashlight onto the mirror and you will see how thick the smokiness there is too.

Even more special methods are needed to evaluate the deeper lenses. Contact me once you have done this exam above, and if you decide to sign up for a consultation/coaching phone session, I'll fill you in on those advance methods for the deeper optics, to get it done right.

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Old 05-13-2011, 02:30 PM
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Mr Bob, I looked into the guns after I cleaned them with a lens cloth and a little cleaner that I use on my camers lens and it looks like if the thick lens was removed they might need a pro to assemble them correctly. Being an Industrial Electrician I am not affraid to open something up to check it out, but I draw the line on the guns thick lens because the set is working great at this point. Thanks for all of your help.
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Old 05-13-2011, 04:26 PM
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Not my methods, but if they work for you without endangering the fragile plastic surfaces of the lenses, OK.

The phone coaching has enabled countless owners to get in there and not have any problems getting ALL affected surfaces clean, most of them just regular people. In your line of work you'd have at least some advantage over most -

b

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Old 05-14-2011, 03:37 PM
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Does anyone know where you can purchase a replacement screen. My screen has some
scratches. I'm not talking about the acrylic protective piece. It's the screen behind that
acrylic piece. I have a Pioneer Pro510.

I think they might call it the lenticular freznel.

Thanks
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Old 05-14-2011, 04:41 PM
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Well Gary just called me to tell me of this, and I recommended his getting ahold of jgruessing68, who has a secondary 510 he uses for parts. Turns out it's just the fresnel that needs to be replaced, the lenticular is fine. If anyone out there has a 510 he's parting out, that would be great, as Joe may not want to part with his fresnel.

I can also equip him with a Mit fresnel, which is every bit as good as a Pioneer. It would start at 55" and have to be cut down, but oh - a little extra work has to be done??? What else is new...



b

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Old 05-14-2011, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Freed View Post

Does anyone know where you can purchase a replacement screen. My screen has some
scratches. I'm not talking about the acrylic protective piece. It's the screen behind that
acrylic piece. I have a Pioneer Pro510.

I think they might call it the lenticular freznel.

Thanks

Gary

I have a 510 that I'm using for parts. If Joe can't help you drop me a PM and we'll see what we can do.

Ken T

Thanks
Ken T
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Old 05-14-2011, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Well Gary just called me to tell me of this, and I recommended his getting ahold of jgruessing68, who has a secondary 510 he uses for parts. Turns out it's just the fresnel that needs to be replaced, the lenticular is fine. If anyone out there has a 510 he's parting out, that would be great, as Joe may not want to part with his fresnel.

I can also equip him with a Mit fresnel, which is every bit as good as a Pioneer. It would start at 55" and have to be cut down, but oh - a little extra work has to be done??? What else is new...



b

Bob,

You have a good memory! In fact, I have two complete lenticular/fresnels that will work with the 510. One is from a 520, and if memory serves has a minor blemish at the bottom. The second, is also compatible, is from a SD-532HD5. I believe they are actually the same part.

Gary,

I'd be happy to help. f you are interested, I can take some pictures so you can verify the condition, and I will confirm the size. Since I have two near mint shape Elites now, I would be happy to unload some of these hard to find parts. You've probably seen the price these sold for when they were available...no worries...I'm gonna make you a deal. The only thing that will kill you is the shipping. lol. Make me an offer.

PM me here, or send email to my lastname.firstname at gmail.

Joseph Gruessing

P.S. I have extra parts for Elites...ranging from a perfect spare mirror to any of the 510,520 internal boards, screws, brackets, connectors, bric-a-brac.
There are two boards in this collection that need some attention...and are fixable...all others are working. With the exception of a few spares for my sets, I can't see keeping all of this stuff now...so if you need something, drop a line. I probably have it.




Ken,

Good to see you are still trolling here too... did you get your 710 all fixed up now? Is that why the 510 is relegated to parts now? ;-) BR
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Old 05-15-2011, 08:59 AM
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Ken,

Good to see you are still trolling here too... did you get your 710 all fixed up now? Is that why the 510 is relegated to parts now ? ;-) BR[/quote]

The 710 isn't working yet, but I do have all the parts I need now. I'll be back in Fla in Oct to get it working.

Bob will probable give me a lecture on how we should keep the match (original) parts together, but I can get the parts for free and I'm trying to save my TV money for when Bob make his trip out this way so he can work his magic on my set.

Thanks
Ken T
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Old 05-15-2011, 11:31 AM
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Don't worry Ken, it's all in a day's work when you're a calibrator. I'll make your set sing whether it has the original boards in it or not.

I am ready for that trip as soon as you guys put it together for me. I'll contribute to the organizer the contact info on any owners who have been in touch with me so far, in your areas.

b

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Old 05-15-2011, 02:06 PM
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Many thanks to Bob for commiserating with me about my PRO510 woes.

These sets require some TLC to stay working properly, but the picture quality makes it worth the effort, even when comparing to many of the much newer sets.

My only draw back is that they don't have hdmi inputs.

Anyone have success with the HDfury converters. I was thinking that it might be worth getting for BluRay an upconverting DVDs?

As for my screen, I want to try and replace the Fresnel / Lencular Assembly as soon as possible.

Thanks to everyone on this thread especially to Bob for their assistance and knowledge.
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