Pioneer Elite Pro-510 problem - Page 98 - AVS Forum
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post #2911 of 2939 Old 01-05-2014, 02:28 PM
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I am going to CES and have a great 2 bed room at the Excalibur. My associates could not make it, so I have space in my hotel room for another show attendee. You will be assigned to my team and as such can attend the show with me. I will be staying a few days after the show ends, to make space for calibration work while there.

Let me know if you want in.

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post #2912 of 2939 Old 01-25-2014, 07:06 PM
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I have an Elite Pro510HD from Feb 2000. After many years, and a successful resoldering of the entire (or close, hard to remember) PS maybe 5 or 6 years ago, the unit lost blue convergence - the top and bottom bend towards the middle (blue only). Red and green user convergence controls work. Convergence in the middle is good (or at least not bad). Unit has gotten TONS of hours; never been cleaned. (Retired father-in-law lives with us. Probably at least 4-6 hours per day for last 11 (of 13) years. Excellent cosmetic condition.

Nice cosmetically. Bought a 70" lcd - it's a BIG room, big picture window opposite leads to glare and need for brightness; kids want 3d, lack of hdmia real problem with new Yamaha receiver. So I need to get rid of it. I might get someone to take it if I can get it working right again. Ideas? My wife wants me to start disassembling it ASAP.... if I don't get a taker or fix it, I'll pull the electronics to offer as spares probably.

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post #2913 of 2939 Old 01-25-2014, 09:19 PM
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Replace your convergence ICs. That and the PS board cold solder joint situation that this thread is all about is all that really goes out on these sets. HDMI converters like the excellent HD Fury series solve the HDMI issue. Optics cleaning makes your set look like new again.

You're giving up a long lasting (don't get that these days) display for the newer tech which is fraught with digital-only issues that don't plague CRT tech.

Hate to see you losing the gold mine you're sitting on. Look on page 45 of this thread to see what your set could look like with the right attention. You're abandoning an inadequately tended Maserati that simply needs a tuneup.

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post #2914 of 2939 Old 01-26-2014, 01:14 AM
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Fyi - I'm near Philadelphia (Valley Forge)

-- Randell
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post #2915 of 2939 Old 02-10-2014, 07:04 AM
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Just wanted to give a "shout-out" to Mr. Bob regarding the quality, assistance, and professionalism of his services offered. I have a 2003 Pioneer Elite Pro530HD and I was seriously considering dumping it for a new flat screen LED set. I've been "shopping" for about a year as my set picture quality had degraded to the point that it had lost its "wow factor". However, after my neighbor bought a new Samsung 7000 series and I saw it in action, I kept thinking that my set performed better when it was new. So i started researching ways to refurb it, and found this forum. I'm so glad I did.

 

I contacted Mr. Bob and used his phone-assistance to guide me through a deep cleaning of the lenses and mirror (10 surfaces), plus all convergence adjustments, and WOW...I'm stunned by the improvement!!! I now have a "like-new" picture that leaves me thoroughly impressed every time I turn it on. It definitely has the wow-factor picture that betters many of the new flat panels IMO.

 

Mr. Bob has a detailed and precise process for bringing back the "like-new" quality of these RP CRT sets, and I highly recommend contacting him before you make the switch away from your unit. My wife thought I was nuts to try this rather than just buy a new unit, but now she is amazed at the result (and thrilled that I didn't dump $2000+ on a new TV).

 

Thank you so much to Bob for his expert services.

 

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post #2916 of 2939 Old 02-28-2014, 10:46 AM
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Thanks, Jeff. Was a pleasure. You did pretty darn well, considering you were the one doing the calibration and not moi!

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Anyone with doubts about the value of phone consultation, heed what Jeff wrote, above.



I have just posted this over at the Don't Dump... thread, figured I should repeat it here for y'all, esp. newbies to this thread. You don't need to start at the beginning of this thread for your answers, I actually encourage you not to, as there is some false and immature info there.

Here's what I just posted:


Again, if you are the proud owner of a Pioneer Elite CRT RPTV with any of the following model numbers, please go to my YT video and get informed about this issue. It's only 13 minutes long, but contains everything you need to know from the very long running AVS thread "Pioneer Elite PRO 510 Problem", which first appeared in 2004 and is still very much alive. If you don't want to read the entire 98 pages currently in that thread, the YT video is your next best bet.

http://youtu.be/I_VerYFt6Y8

Affected models: Pioneer PRO 510HD, PRO 610HD, PRO 710HD, and their non-Elite counterparts, the SD 532HD, SD 582HD and SD 642HD.

Following year affected models: The first half of the model year of the following year, the Pioneer PRO 520HD, PRO 620HD and PRO 720HD, and their non-Elite counterparts the SD 533HD, SD 583HD and SD 643HD.

HOW TO KNOW: Look through the ventilation holes just above the power cord (Elite units. On non-Elite units you may need to remove the LOWER back panel to see). If you see circuitry, then the PS board is mounted vertically in that following model year, and is the same board as the one used in the first model year, the x10 series. It will have the exact same cold solder joint issues. If the PS board is floor mounted, it is the redesigned version and does not suffer from the cold solder joint issues. If your PS board was at some time replaced by Pioneer with a Pioneer rebuilt board, it will come up with these issues again. If you have used a local tech to do the resoldering and they did the typical fix used by most repair techs, it will come up with these issues again.


I have been correcting this issue since 2004, and it shows no sign of abating. We never know how long it will take before the cold solder joints start to let go and start causing inexplicable, infuriating intermittent problems like blue flash, fluctuating brightness, disappearing video, loud pops and eventually hard shutdown. All caused by the way-too-thin solder joints on the PS (power supply) board, which after years of warm-up and cool-down go to cold solder joint status. Local techs are often stymied by these issues and I have seen sets ruined and totaled by failed repair procedures on their part, in their attempts to remedy these symptoms but not knowing about and curing the real problems in the process. With this kind of incredibly sophisticated set, the less invasive the procedures the better. I keep it simple.

Owners of Pioneer Elite CRTs do NOT want their $5000-$12000 sets going down in flames! Whenever someone gets me their PS board while the set is still turning on properly from dead cold, the problem is always solved while it is here with me, and guaranteed from then on, thereafter. Even if their set has gone too far, as in directly into shutdown from dead cold, it costs a little more but I still save their sets.

I am the only one I know of in the world who gives a lifetime warranty on that restoration work I do on the PS boards, so that you never have to worry about it again. If your set has these issues, or hasn't yet but will in the future, please enroll me in keeping your set alive for many more years to come.

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post #2917 of 2939 Old 03-23-2014, 09:38 AM
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I am heading for Portland OR tomorrow for a few days. Hope to hear from some readers here so we can get some brews together or show each other some prized clips -

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post #2918 of 2939 Old 03-26-2014, 08:26 AM
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I want to give a kudos / bravo / mucho thanks to Mr. Bob of Image Perfection - www.imageperfection.com for helping me out with a Hitachi 51F710S that I purchased out of a storage locker for $100. When I got the unit home and plugged it in I was hugely disappointed with the image quality and thought that I would have to put it on Craigslist and hope that I could get rid of it. Before I did so I turned to the AV forums seeking some help and luckily found Bob (Robert) Jones responding to user questions as Mr. Bob. His signature line carried his business information so I contacted him to inquire about contracting his services for remote help. We came to an agreement and from Portland, OR to Flemingsburg, KY we started the work.

Bob walked me through the disassembly of the unit and 10 surface cleaning of the projector lenses and mirror while explaining the why’s and how’s along the way. It wasn't difficult and having Bob on the line with today's technology (cell phone with camera and messaging) made it idiot proof. The picture was improved but I was still disappointed but Bob reassured me that we were on the road to success. We then tuned the unit with the standard menu options to determine what further needed to be done. Then we deep dove into manual color settings and, WOW, what a difference. A great unit that was mis-calibrated would have been passed around, owner to owner, regulated to kids rooms or 3rd TV until someone took it to the dump was revived!

I have beautiful color now and it is a joy to watch. I’ve never seen a RP CRT unit look so good. I’m not a “phile” but I see the quality that Bob was able to resurrect from this unit (from 2,000 miles away!). I told him that compared to the best image display that I had ever seen in person that mine was 98% of that. I see these units for $100 or less all the time on Craigslist and wouldn’t have any fear of purchasing another to resurrect with Bob’s help. Maybe for my son's room.... ;-)
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post #2919 of 2939 Old 04-17-2014, 02:12 PM
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I have a trip to Orlando and Miami coming up in a few days. During the outbound flight on the 7th I will have a layover in Phoenix for about 3.5 hours, during which I would love to do something a little more worthwhile than just sitting around at the airport waiting.

I will be hitting Orlando late on the 7th and seeing Epcot Center first thing the next morning. Have a calibration on the 9th in Ft. Lauderdale, then staying with friends in Miami from the 10th to the 13th.

If anyone who is also an afficianado of the fine art of CRT HD watching, or has some of the fantastic new display tech and would be interested in comparing notes or just hoisting a tall one together, let me know. I would love to share some HD afficianado time together.

b

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post #2920 of 2939 Old 04-28-2014, 07:36 AM
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Just a note here for anyone interested in picking up a Pioneer Pro 510. I have friends near Rochester MN who are downsizing and are looking for someone who'd like theirs. The unit was purchased September 2000 but hasn't seen a lot of use in the last 5-7 years so pretty low hours on this TV. It has not had the PS resoldered but I'd take it in a minute if I didn't already have one smile.gif

Just PM me if you are interested

Dave
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post #2921 of 2939 Old 05-29-2014, 04:07 AM
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I am going to be in Vegas this weekend for a seminar. Monday after the seminar is my only free day at present and I fly out Monday night, tho changes to that could be arranged.

Let me know if I can help.

b

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post #2922 of 2939 Old 08-23-2014, 02:51 AM
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pro-620 power problems

TV acting up again, power supply board removed and reviewed for cold solder joints, red led on. HT+ / HT- at 0 volts, when LED on, read normal after power cycle. Looking for next steps.
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post #2923 of 2939 Old 08-23-2014, 03:08 AM
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When it's the x20 series, we have to know whether your power supply board is vertically or floor mounted. The floor mounted ones from later in the model year use a completely different PS board and do not have the cold solder joint problems of the PS board from the year before, the x10 series.

If yours is vertically mounted you'll see it when you look thru the ventilation holes above where the power cord goes into the unit and plugs into it.

If it's vertically mounted and you have experienced spurious intermittent events, that's the cold solder joints acting up. If it no longer functions without going into protection, those cold solder joints may have caused damage downline.

Each shutdown means the cold solder joints separating and causing non-connection were going to trigger a catastrophic event deeper in the set and the protection circuit kicked in to protect the unit. If left to keep doing that over and over, sooner or later one of those events will escape the shutdown mechanism and something downline in your set will receive a lightning bolt from the PS board. This may be what has happened to your set. It may be resolved without too much cost, and then again it may be expensive to fix. Too soon to tell. But first we have to establish whether your PS board is vertically or floor mounted.

You can sign up for a troubleshooting hour by giving me a call. It is not expensive. If it turns out your PS board needs to be resoldered - they all will eventually, this has been happening since 2004 and the problem is still going strong on PS boards I have not resoldered - I will be glad to resolder your board for you very reasonably and after I have tested it on my own 610 you will have my lifetime warranty on that work. Forever.

I have put up a 13 minute video on YouTube that encompasses this entire thread and tells you what the ONLY correct, permanent fix for these sets is without having to read all 98 pages of this thread. And it's not to get a rebuilt board from Pioneer. I get sent those too, once they go bad again, as they always do, since Pioneer does not do their corrections the way they have to be done to accomplish a permanent fix.

Check it out.


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post #2924 of 2939 Old 08-23-2014, 05:14 AM
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Pro-620 power supply

Its the vertical power supply configuration. From the service manual it appears to be the heater regulator area. I have removed the board and looked for cold solder in this area, but all looks good in those joints. What's the probability its the power transistor (Q201)? DO they fail very often?
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post #2925 of 2939 Old 08-23-2014, 08:13 AM
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If every PS board I resoldered in the past 10 years had had to be troubleshot and repaired first, there's no way I could have done all the dozens, perhaps a hundred by now, boards and kept that same number of sets alive that are still cruising happily and continuing to make beautiful HD images for their owners, for the price I have charged. It would have had to be a lot higher and considerably more owners would have drawn the line at fixing them way before that, and let them hit the curb.

I can do what I do with those boards because I know their performance well enough to know they don't need troubleshooting. The only actual repair I have had to make to the PS board for an owner's set that was not caused by the shippers playing Samsonite gorilla with them, was the one time Q204 was hinky and made the board unstable, causing normal ops almost all the time except when - predictably anyway - I would send the unit thru its aspect ratio changes in 480i. That would stress the unit out just enough to shut it down. Replacing Q204 restored complete stability again and that set has been steaming along on its own power ever since, very peacefully.

Other than that, these boards have been hearty like you would not believe, and have kept on working even after all the abuse these cold solder joints put them thru. As long as nipped in the bud once the instabilities showed their ugly heads, and caught while the set would still turn on from dead cold properly, as long as it was not allowed to warm up again, even once, while in that condition - on for no more than 40 seconds from dead cold, for testing only, then turned off again promptly to stay cold - with my resoldering protocol the boards would be restored to permanent operating status again, for life. This has been this way for 10 years now and I have countless fully operational big screens to show for it. I don't give a lifetime warranty on anything I repair except for here, on this one board. It is that stable. And NOBODY gives a lifetime warranty on this restoration process except me.

So I cannot answer your question. It is need to know, and I don't.

I hope you enjoyed my video, BTW. You didn't say whether you watched it or not. It shows stills of cold solder joints on various PS boards I have worked on, including many Pioneer rebuilt PS boards that failed later. They get my lifetime warranty as well once equipped with my protocol.

At your set's age and if intermittents are happening, I find it extremely hard to believe - impossible in fact - that there are no cold solder joints on it, nay that there are not also solder joints that are only halfway there and will go bad in the very near future as long as you keep using your set normally and watching video content on it in its present condition. Which of course I heartily don't advise; any set with intermittents happening should be shut down and unplugged until fixed properly. Both sets of these joints are pictured in that video. One set bad now, the other set on their way to going bad later.

b

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post #2926 of 2939 Old 08-23-2014, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ernie67t View Post
Its the vertical power supply configuration. From the service manual it appears to be the heater regulator area. I have removed the board and looked for cold solder in this area, but all looks good in those joints. What's the probability its the power transistor (Q201)? DO they fail very often?
The problem frequently occurs at a couple key points initially... some of those being at the connectors located at the sides of the board. But, the correct fix is to resolder the entire board... and this fixes the problem permanently 99% of the time. The board was not properly soldered at the factory...so even if you find the immediate problem, you will have others following.

Bob knows what he is talking about. If you're good with a soldering iron and trust yourself...take the time and go over the *entire* PS board... or, just send it to Bob. He does a fantastic job and guarantees his work. Who does that on something like this anymore?

He does.

Joe
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post #2927 of 2939 Old 08-23-2014, 02:35 PM
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Thanks Joe. But I would correct one thing - it does not fix the problem 99% of the time. It fixes it 100% of the time as long as the board still turns the set on properly from dead cold and the intermittency issues only rear their ugly heads after warm-up. Every single time. Like clockwork. I have been doing this same repair for 10 years.

And thanks for sending me the spare boards you sent me for these sets. Have had no need for them yet, but recently 2 owners found problems on their deflection boards - which as you know are not easily repaired, and as such never are - and must be replaced. One decided to get a new set and the other I have not heard from yet. Sooner or later those boards will come in handy.

And welcome back to the thread! It's been a while.



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post #2928 of 2939 Old 08-24-2014, 06:55 AM
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Time to fail varies widely

It fits the basic criteria, it requires the set to warm up, removing power clears the red LED on the power supply board and it works again, without a cool down period. The difference I was wondering about is the time to failure. It varies from 3 weeks to 3 hours. There is no clear trend (ie getting shorter each time) as I would expect based on a solder joint failure.
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post #2929 of 2939 Old 08-24-2014, 10:30 AM
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Do you play with scorpions too? Do you measure the times they take between stings? You seem very cavalier about continuing to use a set that is obviously hurting and has been rather blatant about telling you so.

You're playing with fire, I have spent 10 years telling owners that. Go to the point on this thread in 2004 where I join it and you'll find me saying exactly the same thing I am telling you now. Your set is on very thin ice, and getting closer to the edge. You said it yourself -
Quote:
(ie getting shorter each time)

YOU MUST STOP USING YOUR SET NOW.
If it is on, turn it off NOW. Let it go cold, test it one more time in the morning after it has grown totally cold, verify that it is working properly from dead cold, turn it off again within 40 seconds of dead cold, then unplug it and DON'T ALLOW IT TO WARM UP AGAIN UNTIL FIXED PROPERLY. And permanently, which is the only trustable way to get it done, and the only way I will do it.

I am accustomed to working with boards that are fresh from the factory and have never been touched by other techs. If you persist in using this tech who has already not performed with permanent results, he may damage the board or the set beyond how I can help. Shortly I will be sending up pix here from a board I was sent recently where several solder bridges were allowed to invade the board because of poor soldering on the part of the repairing tech. I was able to save that set, but no guarantees once other techs have had their hands in it and have left it in that kind of condition.

I will only lifetime warranty your board if you send it to me in perfect operating condition while dead cold. Once it has gone past that and is no longer turning on without going into protection, all bets are off. You have been warned.

b

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post #2930 of 2939 Old 08-25-2014, 04:34 PM
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The quote was in reference to the fact that the time to failure is NOT decreasing as you would expect with a solder failure.
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post #2931 of 2939 Old 08-25-2014, 07:05 PM
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Oh. Sorry about that. I didn't read it right.

However the frequency of the time between occurrences of the shutdowns usually does get shorter over time, even if the time from turn on to shutdown does not. And perhaps that is not happening either in your set's case.

Either way, cold solder joints are highly unpredictable, and I still think you are playing with fire if you keep using your set for watching video and allowing it to experience normal heat up and cool down cycles. One owner just could not do without his set and called and said he had disregarded my warnings and now his set would not turn back on at all. Which is the inevitable result, just like avoiding needed dental work will always eventually result in losing that tooth.

We did a troubleshooting session and he found he would now need to deal with 3 boards, not one, and now he was looking at $1000 rather than just $300. He bailed on his set. It probably hit the landfills. Such an ignoble fate for such a legendary piece of gear.

Just trying to save you from that fate, mate.



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post #2932 of 2939 Old 08-26-2014, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post
Thanks Joe. But I would correct one thing - it does not fix the problem 99% of the time. It fixes it 100% of the time as long as the board still turns the set on properly from dead cold and the intermittency issues only rear their ugly heads after warm-up. Every single time. Like clockwork. I have been doing this same repair for 10 years.

And thanks for sending me the spare boards you sent me for these sets. Have had no need for them yet, but recently 2 owners found problems on their deflection boards - which as you know are not easily repaired, and as such never are - and must be replaced. One decided to get a new set and the other I have not heard from yet. Sooner or later those boards will come in handy.

And welcome back to the thread! It's been a while.



b
Thanks Bob... Being an engineer, I'd never say 100%... LOL.

Good to be back... My sets still going strong so there's some evidence. Just refinished a room in my basement for my girls, and the 510 is going in there. Getting ready to clean it and the 710 and tweak the convergence. It's been quite a while. I've been distracted.

I was nonplussed recently to find out my brother sold off three Pioneer Elites that I tricked out for him two years ago... for $100 a piece. Sigh. I asked him why...he said flat panels are cheap now. Sigh. What can you do? LOL

Joe

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post #2933 of 2939 Old 08-26-2014, 09:55 PM
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Pearls to swine...



b

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post #2934 of 2939 Old 09-01-2014, 07:25 PM
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Hello I'm new to the forum I've been researching my elite 510hd I have an issue with the left side of the screen it appears to be a convergence issue which I cannot correct with the multi point it has green an red shadows on about a foot of the left side I took the back off an looked in with the set on an noticed a dark line in the middle of the red bulb also I really like the set an would like to fix it I'm capable of doing the repairs myself but am having an issue diagnosing the problem. Please help if anyone knows what the problem is thank
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post #2935 of 2939 Old 09-03-2014, 12:49 AM
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NEVER REMOVE THE SLANTED SECTION AT THE TOP HALF OF THE BACK OF YOUR SET. The mirror and lenses are designed to be gotten to ONLY FROM THE FRONT. There are warnings and odd coded screw heads back there to protect you from yourself. You did not heed.

Believe me I know.

A little knowledge is a bad thing, and your set could very well have sustained considerable damage.

That said, count your lucky stars, you dodged a bullet on that one! I dodged one myself on that score many years ago, long before HD.


That bar you saw under the lens top is called lens striping. There's one on the red and one on the blue. Lens striping maintains white field uniformity all across the screen for your set, it's designed to be that way.

It's a good thing.

B
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post #2936 of 2939 Old 09-08-2014, 05:30 PM
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Free Pro510 and 610 in Seattle area

Since most people are focused on these sets in this thread, I thought I risk a plug for 2 sets that I have. Cut and paste from the classifieds area...


[update 8/29] In Craigslist...


[update]: Because I'm a nice guy (and really don't want to take these to the dump), I reflowed the solder on the 610 PS. The 510 PS sounds find but the 610 PS does make noise - sounds like it is coming from the transformer but I ran the unit for an hour and it worked fine. Both need a pro setup (Mr. Bob comes to mind) but the on board convergence will get you part of the way. Lens on the 610 is a bit dusty so I'm guessing the 510 is as well. Still good viewing in daylight.


I have a 510HD (12/2000) and a 610HD (5/2001) available to anyone who will come and get them. Power supply board has been resoldered on the 510 and I think the 610 needs it as well - can do that for you if that sweetens the deal.
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post #2937 of 2939 Old 09-09-2014, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickearles2014 View Post
Hello I'm new to the forum I've been researching my elite 510hd I have an issue with the left side of the screen it appears to be a convergence issue which I cannot correct with the multi point it has green an red shadows on about a foot of the left side I took the back off an looked in with the set on an noticed a dark line in the middle of the red bulb also I really like the set an would like to fix it I'm capable of doing the repairs myself but am having an issue diagnosing the problem. Please help if anyone knows what the problem is thank
Sorry, forgot to answer your main query, which is about convergence repair on the left side of your screen.

If the cursor will not obey your commands in any section of the screen, if the area it is supposed to affect stays fixed and unmovable, then your convergence ICs need to be replaced.

You can find instruction on how to do that and what to use, or you can call me and sign up for a coaching hour with me. Many here have used my coaching for that purpose, and the feedback on the service I provide on such calls has been 100% positive.

b

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post #2938 of 2939 Old 09-17-2014, 12:42 PM
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We have Pioneer Elite Pro 630HD, purchased in 2003. It has worked perfectly until approx. 6 months ago. One day I was watching TV, heard a loud noise (bang) and tv screen went black. Have been unable to find anyone in local area (East Texas) to diagnose and repair. Have discussed with Bob and he was willing to help me repair but I am physically unable to perform tasks required. May be something simple, just cannot confirm problem at this time. I am looking for someone to pickup for recycle (or I can deliver in local area).
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post #2939 of 2939 Old 09-17-2014, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post
Sorry, forgot to answer your main query, which is about convergence repair on the left side of your screen.

If the cursor will not obey your commands in any section of the screen, if the area it is supposed to affect stays fixed and unmovable, then your convergence ICs need to be replaced.

You can find instruction on how to do that and what to use, or you can call me and sign up for a coaching hour with me. Many here have used my coaching for that purpose, and the feedback on the service I provide on such calls has been 100% positive.

b
Or you can send the convergence board to me and I will update with the newest genuine Sanyo ICs and test it thoroughly. Then send it back. On the x10s and half the model year of the x20s the convergence board is very simple to remove and reinstall.

b

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