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post #61 of 386 Old 07-26-2004, 04:25 AM
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Rolypoly--the Nokia test pattern looks very useful but how do you get the .exe program from a computer to a video input on the TV ? Are there computer programs to convert the .exe to a .jpg image recorded on a CD ? I don't know if that would work.

exlimey
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post #62 of 386 Old 07-26-2004, 03:16 PM
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I just bought a Sony KDP-57WS550 and I have a question regarding burn-in and listening to music.

I have Dish Network and enjoy listening to music via Sirius Radio. For those of you who don't know, the screen turns all black except for a few lines of text that move around the screen with the song title, artist, etc.

Excuse my ignorance, and please don't laugh but what is the difference if my entire screen is black or if a letterbox movie is playing with the black bars, as far as burn-in is concerned?

Thank you in advance.

Bill
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post #63 of 386 Old 07-26-2004, 03:24 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Bogey62
I just bought a Sony KDP-57WS550 and I have a question regarding burn-in and listening to music.

I have Dish Network and enjoy listening to music via Sirius Radio. For those of you who don't know, the screen turns all black except for a few lines of text that move around the screen with the song title, artist, etc.

Excuse my ignorance, and please don't laugh but what is the difference if my entire screen is black or if a letterbox movie is playing with the black bars, as far as burn-in is concerned?

Thank you in advance.

If the entire screen is black, the phosphors aren't displaying anything, so they aren't aging. No burn-in. If the entire screen was white, the phosphors would age and dim slightly, but they would age evenly, so there would still be no burn-in (no visible after-image). With black bars on a movie, the areas under the black bars are not being used, the image where the movie is playing is, so eventually you end up with the bars visible all the time. Not because the area under the bars has changed, but because the area under the movie has.

A few lines of text shouldn't be a problem as long as they are randomly moving around the screen. It's stationary patterns that are a problem.
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post #64 of 386 Old 07-26-2004, 03:30 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by ceccacci
If the entire screen is black, the phosphors aren't displaying anything, so they aren't aging. No burn-in. If the entire screen was white, the phosphors would age and dim slightly, but they would age evenly, so there would still be no burn-in (no visible after-image). With black bars on a movie, the areas under the black bars are not being used, the image where the movie is playing is, so eventually you end up with the bars visible all the time. Not because the area under the bars has changed, but because the area under the movie has.

A few lines of text shouldn't be a problem as long as they are randomly moving around the screen. It's stationary patterns that are a problem.

OK, that clears it up, thanks ceccacci.

Bill
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post #65 of 386 Old 07-29-2004, 08:08 AM
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What the is the current opinion on how easily RPTV CRTs burn in as compared to the newer Plasma displays?

I just recently returned a plasma for an Hitachi RPTV and i'm a little worried.

I have no plans of playing videogames on the tv but I do plan on watching DVDs and many will be 2:35 aspect ratio. I also love watching HD baseball games and many of them have the same static score and game info on the top of the broadcast.

So, would I be at risk if I watch too many Cubs games and that score at top of the screen? I certainly plan to "mix it up" with my viewing and it's not like i'm only going to be watching Cubs games but i'm just wondering if I watch too many Cubs games if this could become a problem.

Also, what is the consensus on 2:35 movies? Don't watch too many? Don't worry about it much?

From reading this thread i'm honestly worried that CRT RPTVs could be more prone to burn in than the current crop of plasmas. From everything I read on the plasma forum it sounds like the new plasmas are really quite resistant to burn in.

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post #66 of 386 Old 07-30-2004, 10:48 AM
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We can only suggest the standard reply. Keep your contrast and brightness down. Watch a mix of content.
You would think that the HD broadcasters would know better about static logos and score bars. Write to them and complain!!

Most of the newer plasmas have things to help avoid burn-in, like auto contrast limiters, screen wipers and orbiters that move the picture a few pixels every so often. The best defense is knowledge and altered viewing habits. Keep your screen full as much as you can, but don't be afraid to watch DVDs. If you can find a channel or input that displays static (noise) in full screen that may be used to help even out any slight burn in you may get.

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post #67 of 386 Old 07-30-2004, 12:35 PM
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I'm sure this has already been answered in this forum somewhere, but I can't find it. Do LCD RPTV's and/or DLP RPTV's and/or any of the other new RPTV technologies eliminate the burn-in issue?
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post #68 of 386 Old 07-31-2004, 11:29 AM
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Ok, I had this idea, and it may be way off-base, but it might be just crazy enough to work. Unfortunately, I don't have a TV to try this on (yet), so you guys will have to see what works. Here are the steps:[list=1][*]Use a digital camera to take a picture of your burnt-in screen. I don't know which would work better: screen completely off, or screen on with a pure white screen. Which one shows the burn-in effect better? Anyway, you'll want to take the pic from as close to center as possible, so the image of the screen is as close to a rectangle as possible.[*]Get the resulting image into Photoshop (or other image-editing prog), and crop out everything but the screen. You might have to adjust the geometry, so it's a perfect rectangle, and you don't end up cropping part of the screen, or leaving part of the TV border in there. This is where I'm thinking it'll be better to take the pic with the set on with a pure white screen, so you can also crop parts of the screen that don't display anything.[*]Change image mode to RGB color. (From now on, I'll assume you're using Photoshop. If not, you'll have to figure out how to do the equivalent on your software).[*]Choose "Image->Adjustments->Levels" (or hit Ctrl-L). Make sure "Channel" is set to RGB. Then adjust the two triangles below the histogram, so that the black triangle is just to the right of the lowest value on the graph; then slide the white triangle so it's just to the left of the highest value on the graph. This will make it so you have a full range of white-to-black values, thereby exercising the non-burnt areas more. NOTE: You do NOT have to "invert" the image in any way, as the burnt areas will be black on the resulting image, and therefore will not be exercised by the resulting image.[*]Figure out how many pixels get cropped from the top, bottom, and each side of a 640x480(?) signal, due to your DVD player's pixel-cropping, plus overscan on your set. I assume there's something on DVE and/or Avia to help you do this.[*]Then add enough white space to the top, bottom, left, and right side of your image to make up for the amount not shown on your set.[*]Resize the resulting image to 640x480(?). Use "Image->Image size..." and make sure you constrain proportions. EDIT: I just realized that 640x480 would only give you a 4:3 image. The resolution of a 16:9 image would be 853.333 x 480. This doesn't seem like it would convert correctly. Maybe you just do 640x480 and have your TV stretch the signal. If that's the case, you'll need to shrink the image the other way (make it thinner) to fit.[*]There are many ways to do this step. You'll want to convert the resulting image to a media file, and burn it onto either a blank DVD or CD (as VCD or SVCD). Or it might be as simple as saving the jpg on a CD and using the DVD player's jpg viewer, but this might yield differing results as far as image-cropping, so you'd have to re-figure those values.[*]Display the resulting file on your set. Verify that the darkened areas of the image match up with the burned areas of the screen. If not, you may have to make adjustments to your image and re-burn a new CD/DVD.[*]When you're satisfied, display the image on your set for an hour or two at a time (use your judgement, as I have no experience with this). Hopefully, this will reverse the burn-in. Also, turning your contrast all the way up should speed up the process (remember your old value!).[*]In addition, if you can make the image "blink" on and off, I believe I've read that it exercises the pixels even faster, as they burn faster when constantly being turned on and off. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this, as I don't want anyone to ruin their sets doing this![/list=1] Well, that's it. I know it's a lot of trouble, but if you really want to get rid of burn-in, it seems like it wouldn't be too bad. Any suggestions/improvements? Am I way off, or would this work?
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post #69 of 386 Old 07-31-2004, 11:45 AM
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It's not a bad idea, but I think it would be tricky, at best. And I don't think there is any way you are going to get an image taken with a digital camera to line up correctly just due to the optical distortion involved with the screen/lens/sensor combination.

I'd be interested in hearing the results if anyone tries it though.
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post #70 of 386 Old 08-02-2004, 05:20 AM
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So, the first season of Sopranos is on its way to my house (JOY!!)

Would it be rater stupid to say...wake up early one saturday and just watch the entire season - assuming there are black bars? I doubt I'll do that, but maybe this winter i'll be tempted to do that with Band Of Brothers (when I get it...)

Or should I watch a few episodes, then put on some snow for a bit?

what do you guys with seasons of shows (with blackbars) do?

thanks, as always

Is it Friday yet?
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post #71 of 386 Old 08-07-2004, 01:06 AM
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General question... what does it look like when some of those black bars burn in?

I play a lot of Playstation 2, and so do a lot of my friends and family... and no matter what, there's always tiny black bars on either side of the screen. I'm worried about them burning in, though I take precautions. What would I expect it to look like if they DID burn in? Would the edge of the screen be darker, or lighter?
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post #72 of 386 Old 08-08-2004, 08:30 AM
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Panoral:
The main pattern that needs to be run is a pattern that alternates between black and white every few seconds.

I would recommend two approaches to view this on your TV:
1) This type of pattern could be encoded into MPEG2 onto a DVD or CD.
2) Otherwise, if you have a video card with SVideo output, you can connect a computer through the Svideo input of your TV.

Let me know how this goes for the burn in, since I am curious on the outcome myself. I have seen this successfully work to 'fix' a PDP after running this application for 15 minutes.

Good luck
Roland
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post #73 of 386 Old 08-10-2004, 03:30 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by RebelScum
Ok, I had this idea, and it may be way off-base, but it might be just crazy enough to work. Unfortunately, I don't have a TV to try this on (yet), so you guys will have to see what works. Here are the steps:[list=1][*]Use a digital camera to take a picture of your burnt-in screen. I don't know ...

It would be very difficult to get the resulting image registered with the burned area after all the processing, and any distortion introduced by the digicam lens.

One alternate idea: For new sets, a built-in "BurnFixer" feature, where it reverses the offending video and cranks up the brightness to age the less-used phosphors to match.

Personally, since 85% of my viewing would be 4:3 Tivo output, I'll porobably go for a DLP or a LC if it's maker certifies it to be burn-proof..
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post #74 of 386 Old 08-11-2004, 10:15 PM
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Right now my brightness is about 38 and picture 39 is this a safe setting?? The default movie mode is like 50 for brightness and 50 for picture.

this is for the 55PW9383 Also this set features something called APAC (Automatic Phosphor Aging Compensation) its supposed to shift the picture in small increments to prevent letterbox burn in but I never notice any shifting of the image though.
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post #75 of 386 Old 08-12-2004, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jdobbs2001
Right now my brightness is about 38 and picture 39 is this a safe setting?? The default movie mode is like 50 for brightness and 50 for picture.

this is for the 55PW9383 Also this set features something called APAC (Automatic Phosphor Aging Compensation) its supposed to shift the picture in small increments to prevent letterbox burn in but I never notice any shifting of the image though.

Check out the default settings for the WS550's vivid mode -- one of them is cranked wide open (100%). Crazy.

Bill
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post #76 of 386 Old 08-12-2004, 05:26 PM
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I don't know which would work better: screen completely off, or screen on with a pure white screen. Which one shows the burn-in effect better?
____________________________________________________________
Burn-in does not occur on the screen but rather on the faces of the CRT's themselves(phosphors). Then it is projected as lighter than the rest of the image due to it not being used in that area as much. As far as the sopranos and bars goes, if your settings are fine , just feed your set a steady, equal diet of letterebox and full screen (at least equall full screen time) and you should be fine.

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post #77 of 386 Old 08-12-2004, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by pittdog1
I don't know which would work better: screen completely off, or screen on with a pure white screen. Which one shows the burn-in effect better?
____________________________________________________________
Burn-in does not occur on the screen but rather on the faces of the CRT's themselves(phosphors). Then it is projected as lighter than the rest of the image due to it not being used in that area as much. As far as the sopranos and bars goes, if your settings are fine , just feed your set a steady, equal diet of letterebox and full screen (at least equall full screen time) and you should be fine.

Ok, thanks. I had read on here that burn-in can be noticed, even with the set completely off. Maybe when that happens you're seeing a reflection of the burnt CRT faces. I was simply pondering which would show the effect more. I take it from this info that you would see it most effectively with the screen on, showing a pure white screen?
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post #78 of 386 Old 08-14-2004, 08:56 PM
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here's a link to Keohi HDTV

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/learn...ns/burnin.html

showing examples of what burn in looks like & what to do to avoid it
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post #79 of 386 Old 08-16-2004, 12:59 PM
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Is it true that a DLP can't get burn in at all?
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post #80 of 386 Old 08-17-2004, 09:15 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Beefgude
Is it true that a DLP can't get burn in at all?

yes
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post #81 of 386 Old 08-22-2004, 05:08 PM
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my new hitachi 42v710 lcd says that i should not run in 4:3 mode with the grey bars more than 15% of the time becasue it can lead to uneven aging of the phosphors; is this true? i dont really like running in 4:3 zoom mode.
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post #82 of 386 Old 08-22-2004, 07:05 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by creamy-nuts
my new hitachi 42v710 lcd says that i should not run in 4:3 mode with the grey bars more than 15% of the time becasue it can lead to uneven aging of the phosphors; is this true? i dont really like running in 4:3 zoom mode.

Um, something wrong there, since an LCD doesn't have any phosphors....
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post #83 of 386 Old 08-22-2004, 08:20 PM
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Strange question that doesn't apply to most, more than likely the reason I've yet to find my answer or even know exactly how to search for it


If your television is turned on with no other source material running (IE nothing more than a black/blank screen with no static labels or such) can that cause burn in??

I'm not sure exactly how it happened whether it was a power issue or someone other than myself didn't notice they hadn't turned the television off. Either way I don't know how long the TV was left on in either case but I'm curious as to whether any serious damage could be done. Such an occurance where the TV has been left on has happened twice now.

Common sense lead me to believe that it'd be pretty hard to get typical burn in when you've got a blank image covering the entire screen but I'm wondering if having that completely black image on my screen for an untold amount of time could possibly make my picture darker or shorten the life of my set.

It seems the most obvious determining factor would simply be "how does the image look??" Well the answer to that would be that it appears to be just as brilliant as it ever was. It's always hard to compare two images when side by side isn't an option. So to the naked eye it appears fine but I just want to find out if it's likely that this could/could not cause damage to the set.

Not only that but tonight I noticed that when I first turned on the television (again with no video source running) that I had a number of evenly spaced vertical bars that were of a darker black all the way across the screen and on the sides I had what appeared to be standard sized black bars (as if you were watching 4:3 material). I found that kind of odd seeing as how I rarely, if ever, view non~stretched 4:3 material.

Before noticing this effect the television had been off for well over twenty four hours so it wasn't as if something I'd been earlier in the evening was just leaving that temporary effect. Odd thing is however that when I turned on my HD receiver the image appears to be just as beautiful as it always was and no bars or any such adverse effects appear on screen.

So am I just suffering from paranoia or do I have the beginings of a serious problem??

For the record the television is a standard 57" Hitachi Ultravision. Thanks in advance for the assistance.
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post #84 of 386 Old 08-23-2004, 10:40 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by ceccacci
Um, something wrong there, since an LCD doesn't have any phosphors....

i thought so but the manual says differnt

it states:
4:3 Standard mode ... use this mode for only 15% of your total viewing time to prevent uneven aging of the phosphors. Phosphors in the lighted area of the picture will age more rapidly than the gray areas.

weird eh?
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post #85 of 386 Old 08-24-2004, 10:51 AM
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are there any burn in issues with the JVC D-ILA?
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post #86 of 386 Old 08-24-2004, 10:53 AM
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One thing to consider on content is if you watch a lot of OTA digital local channels, they all have differently-situated black bars. Thus the burn-in borders will be constantly moving around, being overlayed with content, etc. So if you buy one of these, and you DO watch a lot of local channels - do what I did, get an OTA antenna and don't forget to watch your free local HD and SD content as well. Besides it looks way better in quality that the satellite versions of the local channels. I have my set set up so the remote switches easily from Directtv to OTA with just two buttons on each switch. If it's local, I watch it over the antenna, it looks better, and varied black bar positioning too. Even if you only watch ONE ota local channel a lot, at least you are breaking up the constant black borders during that time.
(Hitachi 51S700)....Frenchy
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post #87 of 386 Old 09-17-2004, 08:58 AM
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I have a 2000 model Hitachi 60" RPTV. I calibrated it with Video Essentials about 3 years ago. I game on it quite a bit with my Xbox- I'd say 2-3 hours/night. I also watch 16:9 dvd's without zoom (with black bars). I have no detectable burn-in.

I may be fortunate, but I think it has more to do with calibrating it with Video Essentials. I think the important thing is to not overdrive the CRT's unnecessarily.

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post #88 of 386 Old 09-18-2004, 10:52 AM
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Hey I have a question on reversing burn-in, I just got a RPTV CRT and if I were to keep a log on how many hours I watch in letterbox and then create a DVD where the footage is reversed, have footage where the bars for the 4:3 would be and black in the center. And run the DVD for an equal amount of time. Would that help in reversing burn-in.
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post #89 of 386 Old 09-18-2004, 08:10 PM
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I have question as well. I have a hitachi 43in. hdtv that I purchased about two years ago and when there's a scene with low light, the darker portions of the picture look washed out somewhat and hard to see detail. It just looks brighter in that part of the screen. Now, let me go get my box of tissues to cry in while ya all tell me I have screen burn. Is it screen burn?
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post #90 of 386 Old 09-20-2004, 11:56 AM
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Ozz, it sounds like you just need to use DVE or Avia to calibrate your brightness and contrast levels. That should bring out the details in your darker areas.
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