Official Toshiba H83/H84 CRT Thread - Page 96 - AVS Forum
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post #2851 of 2859 Old 12-11-2013, 08:55 AM
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I'm having the first problem with my 65H84 since buying it new and its a strange one. I'm having a problem with the HDMI input. I have 4 devices routed through an HDMI switching receiver. In order to eliminate the receiver, I tried hooking the devices straight to the tv and have also tried different cables. This is the result:

1. Playstation 3 (actually tried two different ones) - I get nothing over HDMI - no audio or video
2. HD Cable box - I get picture and audio for a split second then nothing.
3. HD-DVD player - I get the player's default "HD-DVD" logo and "Loading" but when the disc spools up and the movie should come on, I get nothing
4. XBox 360 - this is the weird one - it works *perfectly* and comes right up - audio and video

I've verified that each device is working perfectly by hooking to another tv and verified that each is outputting 1080i. I've tried the same cables between the two tvs, different ones, etc. I'm stumped - especially on the Xbox. Is there something different about them and how they output HDMI? I talked to a knowledgeable repair place and they're researching the problem, but agree that it doesn't make any sense. How is the Xbox working and how does the HDMI input partially work on two of the other devices? I love this tv and would hate to get rid of it because of parts availability or repair cost if the only solution is to shotgun it with all new PCB's. Has anyone seen anything similar with the HDMI port?
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post #2852 of 2859 Old 12-11-2013, 01:17 PM
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HDCP is rearing its ugly head again, looks like. I had a similar problem when trying to HU a cable box thru an HDMI switching Pioneer AVR. Was told by Pio that AVRs sometimes "look" like HD recording devices to the HDMI copyguard circuits (HDMI's only real claim to fame), shutting down the signal. That's why you see a pic for a second then it disappears - HDMI's anti-piracy circuits. Sure enough, going a different connection route it worked fine on component or when the HDMI was run directly to the TV, bypassing the AVR.

So you don't get pic even when running the HDMI directly to the TV, bypassing the AVR switching? Then perhaps something in the totally unnecessary and highly sophisticated - read that "cumbersome and lengthy and prone to difficulty" - HDMI circuits is causing the required handshake to break down. Hitachi had such trouble with their HDMI circuits that one of their entire boards had to be re-engineered and installed on location in all their units, costing them horrendous on-location technician service fees. Those service techs who were not in the loop usually didn't know to exchange the eeproms in the convergence circuits, replacing the new virgin (ie. blank) ones with the old already-successfully programmed ones before installing the replacement boards, and as a result had to set up the geometry and convergence entirely from scratch. IOW a nightmare waiting to happen, as very few repair service techs know didly about geometry and convergence.

eek.gif

If all else fails, the HD Fury series works wonders when your HDMI is giving you grief. Impeccable picture. I have a Mit 73" CRT whose HDMI circuit is total crap - delivers a mulchy pic, far inferior to its excellent component circuits. Mit did well when it was DVI but lost their edge the following year when they went to HDMI, so I use a Fury whenever I absolutely need HDMI, such as for upconverting SD 480i DVDs to 1080i inside the bluray player and outputting the 480i content as 1080i via HDMI. You don't need HDMI for anything else as long as your source device has component outputs. Your set's component inputs will give you the highest grade pic available on 1080i without any need for HDMI.

Component outputs of course cannot be found on new equipment today - component ouput has been outlawed now and we owners of pre-HDMI sets have been ground under and spat out by Big Brother - so if you have a bluray player with component output, shield that puppy from all potential buyers and hang onto it!

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post #2853 of 2859 Old 12-12-2013, 06:53 PM
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I was thinking the same thing regarding the hdcp. Looks like I've been able to prove it now too. I did some research on the xbox 360 and apparently it doesn't output hdcp with the operating system or games. So tonight I spooled up a DVD and bam - an error message stating no secure hdcp link found. So - am I correct in assuming that the hdcp circuitry would reside on the hdmi pcb that the cable plugs in to? It has a few cables going to a common interface pcb that the component and other analog inputs plug in to, so I'm assuming that the video signal is done with any hdcp-related functions by the time it's output to that board. If my assumptions are correct, the only question is parts related. My hdmi "module" is labeled mhdm01. The part is nla, but there's an mhdm01A available. I'll have to find out if the two are compatible as the sets listed as compatible with the A part number are all dlp's.

-EDIT- I was never able to find out of the mdhm01A is compatible. If anyone can find out, please let me know.
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post #2854 of 2859 Old 12-12-2013, 09:07 PM
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Fair warning - all fixed pixel devices in today's arena, including dlp, are 1080p, not i.

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post #2855 of 2859 Old 12-13-2013, 04:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Fair warning - all fixed pixel devices in today's arena, including dlp, are 1080p, not i.

These aren't fixed pixel, and I thought were something weird like 576p???
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post #2856 of 2859 Old 12-13-2013, 08:19 AM
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Hey, Walt! Long time no see! smile.gif

Toshiba CRTs yes. I was speaking to the mention of dlp''s in the last line of that post. DLPs are definitely fixed pixel.

Talk about a blast from the past! I remember now. The Tosh's converted their 480 to 540, so it would be exactly half of 1080. Of course you have to trust their upconversion algorith for doing so, rather than having true 480p. You don't. You have 540p instead, on all 480i/p material. True 480p is gone forever on those Toshiba units with that design.

The benefit is that if you supertweak your 1080i on its image structure - focusing, geometry and convergence - you don't have to do anything to your "faux 480", or 540. It's covered in the supertightening of your 1080i, and both 1080i and 540p wind up supertight just from supertightening your 1080i alone.

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post #2857 of 2859 Old 12-18-2013, 10:46 AM
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All is well now with my 65H84. I went on the assumption that all the electronics needed to resolve the hdcp handshake resided on the HDMI board and picked up a used one on ebay for $20 shipped. Popped it in today and I'm back in business.

Btw - for future reference if anyone is dealing with a similar problem - it appears that the HDMI board is no longer available new. If the part number has been superceded by one I wasn't able to find, please drop me a PM and let me know. I may need another one in the future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karman View Post

I was thinking the same thing regarding the hdcp. Looks like I've been able to prove it now too. I did some research on the xbox 360 and apparently it doesn't output hdcp with the operating system or games. So tonight I spooled up a DVD and bam - an error message stating no secure hdcp link found. So - am I correct in assuming that the hdcp circuitry would reside on the hdmi pcb that the cable plugs in to? It has a few cables going to a common interface pcb that the component and other analog inputs plug in to, so I'm assuming that the video signal is done with any hdcp-related functions by the time it's output to that board. If my assumptions are correct, the only question is parts related. My hdmi "module" is labeled mhdm01. The part is nla, but there's an mhdm01A available. I'll have to find out if the two are compatible as the sets listed as compatible with the A part number are all dlp's.
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post #2858 of 2859 Old 12-18-2013, 10:55 AM
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Good to hear, that the same board is common to both formats - CRT and DLP. There's really no reason to re-invent the wheel, but some manufacturers do, as we all know ... If not, component circuits in the newer digital formats would not have all gone to slop like they have. They would have used the completely excellent component designs of before HDMI. But do they? Not to my experience...

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post #2859 of 2859 Old 12-18-2013, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Good to hear, that the same board is common to both formats - CRT and DLP.

Actually, I still don't know for sure that it is - but I would like to, as I will probably need another one day. I wasn't able to find anyone that could definitively tell me either way. I went with a safer bet on buying a used one from another "H84" series set that carried the same part number.
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