Official Toshiba H83/H84 CRT Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 2859 Old 07-22-2004, 04:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Since I found several threads on the issues and that the 83 and 84 series are pretty much the same (except hmdi and the new user menu) I though it would be best if we combined them to get all of our issues discussed here.. Mods if this is not appropiate feel free to trash it!

I'll start - I am assuming I need to adjust contrast, brightness and the like for each input correct? What about convergence.. since the 84's have the 56 pt from the user menu does that effect all inputs across the board? I have yet to venture into the service mode - which I will soon - but for now I just want to get the brightness / contrast / color correct - Here is what I do - change to movie mode and then adjust from there then save. Right now my brightness is 42 and contrast is 39 - how does that compare with others?

thanks

jim
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post #2 of 2859 Old 07-22-2004, 10:21 AM
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The 56pt. convergence effects all inputs, however, if you want your TV to save your adjustments to the "Touch Focus" button, I believe you still need to do it through the service menu. Another advantage of the the 56pt-er through the service menu is that you get a fullscreen grid as opposed to a series of "+"s, and therefore, can get a more accurate convergence.

My contrast is 50 and my brightness is around 42 - set using the "Pluge w/ Gray Scale" and "Reverse Greyramp" tests on DVE.
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post #3 of 2859 Old 07-22-2004, 01:53 PM
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Jim, congrats on starting the new thread. Your #'s are almost dead on with my 46H83. Do you have a cali disc? If so which one did you use . Enjoy the set and this will be a great place to converse about them.

If it only takes one match to start a forestfire, then why does it take the whole#$%@!&* box to start a camp fire for the kids?!?!? PITTDOG1
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post #4 of 2859 Old 07-22-2004, 07:10 PM
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Jim - my settings are about the same - contrast 37 brightness 42 - though I have to admit for SD I set it up beginning with the standard mode, not movie - and turned the sharpness down to 17.

I found that turning off svm on sd (by starting in movie) then reducing sharpness made the picture too soft. On digital channels like HBO I like the settings starting on Movie a bit better though. But frankly more of my TV viewing is NOT on HBO - movies I watch DVD over composite.

What are you other settings for broadcast? Sharpness? Tint? Color? Temp?

I just got DVE in the mail today - so I'll do my composite input tonight or tomorrow, but will probably try and just continue eyeballing broadcast.

I have not yet gotten HD yet as our cable company only offers 5 channels - though I will be getting it before the Olympics start.

Here's a question: when you guys watch movies on 480p, do you upconvert to 540 or 1080? I can't really tell a difference.......

I want a new DVD as well now and am considering a 318 - but am having a hard time deciding......

Brad
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post #5 of 2859 Old 07-23-2004, 04:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Pittdog - I used the original Video Essentials and Sound and Vision HT Tune up - I have ordered a copy of DVE.

gofast - I cant really tell a difference in 540p v 1080i for dvds - speaking of dvd's - what strech mode should dvds be watched in? If I set the player to 16:9 tv and the tv to natural - it comes out 4:3 - I have to set the tv to full in order to get the correct aspect ratio - is that right? Are dvds different?

I ventured into the service menu last night - didnt really touch anything - but I probably will over the weekend.. I did find this http://www.imagesoftcorp.com/X81Designer.zip - its a spreadsheet with service menu values - I may go through mine today and compare it - and may even start my own that we can all add to.

jim
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post #6 of 2859 Old 07-23-2004, 08:05 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by jim tressler
gofast - I cant really tell a difference in 540p v 1080i for dvds - speaking of dvd's - what strech mode should dvds be watched in? If I set the player to 16:9 tv and the tv to natural - it comes out 4:3 - I have to set the tv to full in order to get the correct aspect ratio - is that right? Are dvds different?

You are correct - you need to be in full mode if you are feeding a dvd to the tv and your dvd is set to a 16:9 television. I get a little whacked out by this stuff too, but that's what I'm doing - DVD set to 16:9 and progressive, then the TV set to full. I have yet to try 4:3 stuff from the DVD though.

Apparently if you put it on "normal" it looks at the signal the way it is encoded on the disc, rather than taking the uncompressed image and putting it on correctly - or something like that. I read a post mentioning that. I can tell you this, which is weird - we rented Spy Kids 2 for my kids over the weekend and I went to put it on - I put it in "normal" to see if it was letterboxed or not and it looked like it wasn't, which struck me as strange, but every now and then Blockbuster does buy the Pan and Scan versions of movies, and I don't know why.

At any rate, I assumed it was 4:3 and let them watch it in Theater Mode 1 to stretch it. Then on a whim I switched to full, thinking it would distort it the was Full distorts all 4:3, and was surprised to see that it was 16:9 after all and worked great.

I'm still a beginner with the whole widescreen thing though, so I rely on this place as much as everyone else :-)

There are just too many combinations of settings between the dvd and tv to keep it all straight sometimes, and be sure you are setting everything where it should be set....but I'm getting it down as time goes on.

Brad
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post #7 of 2859 Old 07-23-2004, 08:46 AM
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Glad to see that we finnaly have our own thread. Quick questions, and keep in mind I dont have the H84 tv yet. I plan on hooking up my new dvd player w/proggesive on it. If I keep the tv at 540p I am using the DVD scaler correct?? I plan to do it this way, because my dvd player has the 12 bit-108 mhz DAC coverter, supposdly its better than the average 10bit-54mhz. So if I keep the tv at 540p there shouldnt be any scaling right?? Also like many of you, I will set my dvd to say I have 16:9 tv, so should I leave my connection on full. It just sound like using full, takes up the whole tv, which is somthing I dont want. For example, lets say I am watching saving private ryan, its 1:85, so even on a widescreen tv, I should get some black lines. But it sounds like if i set my tv to full, it will strecth the picture, and get rid of black lines, am i correct in assuming this??
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post #8 of 2859 Old 07-23-2004, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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faheem - on all the stuff that I have thrown at it wheather its 1.85 or 2.35:1 in full mode still has black bars - that leads me to belive that full is how you should watch dvd's

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post #9 of 2859 Old 07-23-2004, 11:04 AM
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thanks, yea i guess only dvd with "enhanced for 16:9" will be the only one with no bars. I appreciate the quick response. Been hearing from lots of dealers that the 65H84 should be out within days. Time to see if Sears and ABT will match online prices
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post #10 of 2859 Old 07-23-2004, 01:12 PM
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gofast, Are you meaning component instead of composite. If you really are hooked up with composite(yellow single video cable) you need to switch to component(red, green and blue video cable). If your current dvd player doesn't have these then you should at least be using S-video . I don't think that a composite connection even passes 480 lines . And i'm running progressive on and TV set at 540p. I tried all combinations of prog. on and off , 540p and 1080i switching and it came out the best. I used patterns which are on VE and DVE (the resolution patterns and the ones with fine lines in patterns and boxes).You can see differences on the finely detailed patterns such as more or less flickering and noise etc. with each change of the dvd or your sets modes.

If it only takes one match to start a forestfire, then why does it take the whole#$%@!&* box to start a camp fire for the kids?!?!? PITTDOG1
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post #11 of 2859 Old 07-23-2004, 01:18 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by faheem5
So if I keep the tv at 540p there shouldnt be any scaling right??

The 480p coming from your DVD player would still need to be upconverted to 540p by the TV. The only way to avoid having the TV upconvert is to get a DVD player capable of outputting a 1080i signal (unless 540p-capable DVD players exist outside of my knowledge).

Quote:


For example, lets say I am watching saving private ryan, its 1:85, so even on a widescreen tv, I should get some black lines. But it sounds like if i set my tv to full, it will strecth the picture, and get rid of black lines, am i correct in assuming this??[/b]

Pretty much as Jim said, only 1.78:1 and 1.33:1 ratio movies/shows will completely eliminate black bars when in "Full" mode.


The 65H84 is already on sale here.
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post #12 of 2859 Old 07-23-2004, 01:22 PM
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Would someone please post the approximate height and width (in inches) of the viewable area of the 57H84.
Thanks!
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post #13 of 2859 Old 07-23-2004, 01:23 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by pittdog1
I don't think that a composite connection even passes 480 lines.

Composite and S-Video top out at 480i. You need component, DVI, or HDMI to get anything above that.
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post #14 of 2859 Old 07-23-2004, 01:26 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by soulflare
Composite and S-Video top out at 480i. You need component, DVI, or HDMI to get anything above that.

Please excuse my ignorance, but does that mean a progressive scan DVD player with component outs passes a 480p signal or a 540p?
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post #15 of 2859 Old 07-23-2004, 01:53 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Eben
Would someone please post the approximate height and width (in inches) of the viewable area of the 57H84. Thanks!

That information isn't published by Toshiba, but based on a few measurements of my 46H84 and a little math I'd guesstimate about 49.5" x 28.0" (which would give you about 56.87" diagonally).
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post #16 of 2859 Old 07-23-2004, 01:55 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by soulflare
That information isn't published by Toshiba, but based on a few measurements of my 46H84 and a little math I'd guesstimate about 49.5" x 28.0" (which would give you about 56.87" diagonally).

Thanks!
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post #17 of 2859 Old 07-23-2004, 01:58 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Eben
Please excuse my ignorance, but does that mean a progressive scan DVD player with component outs passes a 480p signal or a 540p?

No apologies necessary. A regular progressive scan DVD player would send out a 480p signal over component.
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post #18 of 2859 Old 07-23-2004, 02:04 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by soulflare
No apologies necessary. A regular progressive scan DVD player would send out a 480p signal over component.

So that means that such a signal would be "upconverted" by the Toshiba to 540p or 1080i? Is there a general consensus preferring one to the other, or is it in the eye of the beholder?
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post #19 of 2859 Old 07-23-2004, 03:52 PM
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Yes, and yes on the eye of the beholder bit IMO.
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post #20 of 2859 Old 07-23-2004, 04:33 PM
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I went ahead and bought the 46H84 today. The white line is just as visible as it was on my 42H83, maybe even more so, and is also about an inch or so right of center. Would the fix be the same as it was on the 46H83? Hopefully it won't be too much of a hassle to have fixed. Other than that I am very pleased with it but there is no excuse that the white line still has not been fixed. The picture seems to be a bit brighter than it was on 42H83 as well. I have not noticed any brushed aluminum lines or jail bars either. Other than the white line everything seems good.
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post #21 of 2859 Old 07-23-2004, 09:52 PM
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sorry to hear the tv has this problem still, was wondering if you can take a picture of this white line you are noticing. If you could that be great, I would assume it had to be real up close, but just want to see how it looks in person.
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post #22 of 2859 Old 07-23-2004, 11:07 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by david118383
I went ahead and bought the 46H84 today. The white line is just as visible as it was on my 42H83, maybe even more so, and is also about an inch or so right of center.

Be sure to check your television's overscan. The white line on my 46H84 also seemed off-center to the right at first, but an overscan pattern showed me that the image was off-center to the right as well. The fix should be identical to that of the 83 series, but I don't believe that's been confirmed by anyone yet.
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post #23 of 2859 Old 07-24-2004, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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I just emailed toshiba with the issue - lets see how they respond.

jim
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post #24 of 2859 Old 07-24-2004, 07:51 AM
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I cannot believe that Toshiba Has not addressed the problem in the 84 series sets. UNBELIEVABLE! It's a shame really because these sets have a great picture at any price and especially for the price we can get them for.
I've stated numerous times that i've never seen it on my set and me and my wife and daughter have looked for it on numerous occasions. But i know
it obviously exists. Toshiba can't expect us to believe that they are not aware of it.
Jim, i hope you get a good response from them and keep everybody posted on the response they send you.
Faheem, from what i understand, it's going to be next to impossible to get a picture of the line due to the fact that it doesn't show itself very often, it's usually very faint, doesn't occur for more than a fraction of a second, and with the lag time on most digital cameras between pushing the button and actually taking the picture it would be gone by then.I've even heard of people trying to press pause on their DVD players where the line appears but it goes away when they press pause because the camera or scene has to be panning across(moving right to left or vice versa) to see the white line. Good luck to everybody and their Toshies and great thread!

If it only takes one match to start a forestfire, then why does it take the whole#$%@!&* box to start a camp fire for the kids?!?!? PITTDOG1
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post #25 of 2859 Old 07-24-2004, 10:43 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by pittdog1
I cannot believe that Toshiba Has not addressed the problem in the 84 series sets. UNBELIEVABLE!

Especially when they could have completely eliminated the problem for less than $1 per unit on the production line (that's including labor, although they could probably automate that). I guess some beancounter within Toshiba decided it would be cheaper to disassemble, repair, and then reassemble 2-4% of the sets under warranty then to simply fix the problem when it was easiest to do so.

Of course, what they've failed to consider is that anyone who asks about Toshiba online at any half-decent AV site is going to hear about this problem, and as a result, may go with another brand instead.
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post #26 of 2859 Old 07-24-2004, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
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hey.. question- I am in the process of building a stand - it will be about 8-10" in height - I plan on putting my onkyo 600 down there - any one know what the minimum clearence I would need - the unit is 6.5" tall - so there would be about 2-3" clear on the top with a small fan.. that should be enough shoudnt it?

thanks
jim
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post #27 of 2859 Old 07-24-2004, 06:11 PM
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It really is unexusable that the white line has not been fixed, but I still would not let it keep me from buying the 46H84 because it can be easily fixed with a service call. I think I am pretty happy with mine. I did the 56 pt. convergence and used the THX optimizer on Monsters Inc. to get my settings right. I will probably get DVE eventually, but I don't see how it would make much difference. I ran the perfect circle test on the THX Optimizer and everything seemed to be centered perfectly. The rectangle outside the circle was perfectly straight and there was about a half inch of black space outside the rectangle all the way around the TV. Does that mean that my geometry and overscan are alright?
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post #28 of 2859 Old 07-24-2004, 06:26 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by pittdog1
gofast, Are you meaning component instead of composite.

Yes - of course I did - I do that all the time. I only use component, but hope to go to dvi/hdmi as soon as I get a new DVD.

Brad
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post #29 of 2859 Old 07-24-2004, 09:36 PM
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It really is unexusable that the white line has not been fixed, but I still would not let it keep me from buying the 46H84 because it can be easily fixed with a service call.

David118383 you said you can call this problem in and Toshbia will come out and fix it for free. If so can you tell us who you talked to or what the process was. I dont have my H84 yet, but if i am one of the unfortunate who can see it, then I would love if i can call it in.
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post #30 of 2859 Old 07-25-2004, 06:46 AM
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You can find the service bulletin for the white line fix over at the Spot. I would just print it out and take it to your service center.
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