HLP5674W/HLP4674W Owners Thread/Problems/Tweaks/Service Menu/Discretes etc. - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 2291 Old 11-12-2004, 02:48 PM
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what center channel issue and what thread??

thanks

M
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post #92 of 2291 Old 11-12-2004, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mismatched
what center channel issue and what thread??

thanks

M

This one:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=469037

tjk
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post #93 of 2291 Old 11-12-2004, 03:22 PM
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THANKS
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post #94 of 2291 Old 11-12-2004, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by oregonstitch
I'm getting the very strong impression that everyone is happy with their XX74 sets. The move down to a 6 segment wheel and the odd ball "optical something or other" light engine seem to be overcome by the HD2+ chip. Can anyone address:
1. the progression on "light engines"
2. Where the xx74's "optical" light engine fits in that progression
3. What/when the next step in light engines is expected?

Well, since I don't see anyone answering your questions I'll take a stab at it. I think I've got this right though feel free to jump in if anyone knows better.

Light Engine Generations:
Gen 1: HLM models
Gen 2: HLN models and HLPxx74
Gen 3: HLPxx63 models
Gen 4: HLPxx85 models

The HLPxx74 models do have some sort of software handling of the colors that is supposed to get better results out of the 6 segment color wheel.

Initially there was supposed to be a HLPxx97 series coming out with a 5th generation light engine but that has been changed to be still a 4th generation (i.e. pedestal) model.

I think the 5th generation will come out either late 2005 or early 2006 though that is completely a guess.

Brad
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post #95 of 2291 Old 11-12-2004, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I have to disagree with this ranking -- do you own one of these??

I wouldn't call an engine with the HD2+ a 2nd generation engine. It is at least as good as an HLP engine (which needed massive redesign just to blow up a smaller chips image to the same screen sizes as the previous one) and I would place it between the HD3 and the xx85 HD2+ models.

Remember the HD2+ chip is .8" squared in size and the HD3 is ,55" squared that means the HD2+ is more than twice as big in surface area allowing for much larger enlargement with simpler optics.

Also some of the HD3 engine redisign was to allow making a steeper mirror path allowing for a narrower box depth - that means the HD3 models have to have even more optics to compensate for increased keystoning.

Finally the HD3 chip uses half as many pizels with wobulation to serve two parts of the screen creating an artificially soft HD picture.

The HD2+ has the TI dimple fix and DarkChip2 technology which weren't in the HD2 so it definitely moves the xx74 models ahead of the HLN models.

The seven segment wheel on the HD3 models is the only advantage I have seen to the HD3 models - given that trade off vs the advantages above the 74 models come in at least as good as an HD3 and from what those viewing them have said a notch above getting them close to the xx85.
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post #96 of 2291 Old 11-12-2004, 04:31 PM
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Just to add another kink into things.

The HLM and HLN (at least prior to the W1 change) mapped 720p DVI directly, pixel for pixel. It was easy to see viewing a 720p multiburst pattern from an Accupel test pattern generator, where you could see one row on, one row off. (DNIE disabled of course as the edge enhancement it adds would totally corrupt the high resolution portions of such a test pattern).

With the HLP's, this is no longer the case. There is some scaling going on (resulting in more overscan, 3-4% vs. just under 2% previously) and obvious scaling induced banding in the highest frequency pixel burst. So, in that respect the older models generated a more "pure" 720p image. I'm hoping this is something that can be corrected, either by Samsung in some midstream update or via some hitherto unknown service mode "scaling" adjustment. Very disappointing.

Steve Martin
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post #97 of 2291 Old 11-12-2004, 04:35 PM
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Are you talking about the 63, 85 and or 74 HLP models?
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post #98 of 2291 Old 11-12-2004, 04:40 PM
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And are you sure that's true across all picture modes. I'm nearly positive I'm getting 1:1 over DVI from my HTPC @1280X720 in Expand mode with overscan, and at 1248X702 (or something) in 4:3 (aka native) mode with no overscan, on an HLP5685 series. Anyone know of an image file I can verify with - alternating single pixel rows of black and white?

thanks, jb

Quote:
Originally posted by Cheezmo
Just to add another kink into things.

The HLM and HLN (at least prior to the W1 change) mapped 720p DVI directly, pixel for pixel. It was easy to see viewing a 720p multiburst pattern from an Accupel test pattern generator, where you could see one row on, one row off. (DNIE disabled of course as the edge enhancement it adds would totally corrupt the high resolution portions of such a test pattern).

With the HLP's, this is no longer the case. There is some scaling going on (resulting in more overscan, 3-4% vs. just under 2% previously) and obvious scaling induced banding in the highest frequency pixel burst. So, in that respect the older models generated a more "pure" 720p image. I'm hoping this is something that can be corrected, either by Samsung in some midstream update or via some hitherto unknown service mode "scaling" adjustment. Very disappointing.

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post #99 of 2291 Old 11-12-2004, 04:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I believe you can get true one to one with all of the HD2+ models (either the 85 or the 74 series). You can get it with the HD3 (63 series models) however due to wobulation it will look soft compared to what could be done before. Won;t get mine til next week to know for sure but other 85 posts make me sure it can be accomplished.
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post #100 of 2291 Old 11-12-2004, 04:53 PM
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I think there is one point that might confuse some readers that are new to the many variations in Samsung model numbers. To refer to the HLP models and then discuss the characteristics of the HD3 chip can be misleading. The HLPxx85 sets are also "HLP" and have a very different light engine. And here come the HLPxx74 models.

There have been a few reports of early HLPxx63 sets being exchanged for October release HLPxx63 sets. The owners of these new sets seem to think that there has been a noticeable improvement in PQ. I wonder if what they see as improvement is subjective or if Samsung has been tweaking.

Calibration Resources:

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post #101 of 2291 Old 11-12-2004, 05:09 PM
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Does the 4674 have an auxilliary outlet on the back of the set? I'm thinking of adding a fan to my cabinet to help cool the TV. It'd be nice to have the fan turn on with the TV. On the same note, is there any reason to think that extra air movement for cooling is necessary? I hear that the bulbs are a huge heat generator and the heat shortens it's life. My cabinet is 30"h x 46"w and isn't a tight seal around the TV.

Appreciate any feedback on this.
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post #102 of 2291 Old 11-12-2004, 05:46 PM
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mayhew,

The bulb is in the left rear corner of the set (viewed from the front). I have put my hand very close to the fan exhaust when the set (4674) is on, and the air is warm, but not that warm. I think the set draws cool air from the front and it exits to the rear, so I don't think an extra fan is needed. You should have close to 3" clearance on each side, which should be more than enough room for the air to circulate.

Joe
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post #103 of 2291 Old 11-12-2004, 07:23 PM
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Im staring at a Samsung HLP 4674, watching non-hd csi, with bars on the left and right. I would go fullscreen, but ive got a crummy cable box, which means I would have to go from component to svideo to get it to work. Watched a football game on it last night in HD. The picture is nearly perfect, but I could see some bowing of the picture on the right. I believe this would not be noticable with the picture filling the full screen.
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post #104 of 2291 Old 11-12-2004, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Paul_PDX
I believe you can get true one to one with all of the HD2+ models (either the 85 or the 74 series). You can get it with the HD3 (63 series models) however due to wobulation it will look soft compared to what could be done before. Won;t get mine til next week to know for sure but other 85 posts make me sure it can be accomplished.

I hope that is true.

I've seen two sets where to my best efforts it was not achievable.

One was an HLN507W that had had an upgrade done (and had a service menu that looked like the HLP service menu).
I've seen two HLP5085's (HD2+).

I've also seen several HLP5063's where the banding in the high frequency looked similar but of course softer due to the "wobulation". In those, I first attributed it to the HD3 but now I'm starting to think it is related to this scaling issue.

Today I sat a HLN467W and an HLP5085 side by side and fed them the same resolution test pattern from the same Accupel HDG-3000 and the difference was very obvious. Perfectly clean on the HLN467W and banding/scaling artifacts on the HLP5085.

Steve Martin
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If you can see my pixels, you are sitting too close.
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post #105 of 2291 Old 11-12-2004, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Paul_PDX
I have to disagree with this ranking -- do you own one of these??

I wouldn't call an engine with the HD2+ a 2nd generation engine. It is at least as good as an HLP engine (which needed massive redesign just to blow up a smaller chips image to the same screen sizes as the previous one) and I would place it between the HD3 and the xx85 HD2+ models.


I don't (yet) own a DLP. I'm planning on buying one for Christmas though!

I think I agree with you, Paul_PDX, my earlier rankings aren't right. I'm still not sure how to place the HLPxx74 models. They were created later in time than the HLPxx85 models so in that respect they should be a later generation. However, they are not technically as good as the HLPxx85 models so in that respect they should be an earlier generation. Since it is sharing everything the same as the HLN models with the exception of the DLP that was why I considered a 2nd generation light engine. That's misleading though since PQ is better than the 3rd generation ('63) light engines. I guess the HLPxx74 models are more like a 3.5 generation. However, that's the first non-integer generation I've ever seen!

One other question would be if there was any change in the light engine from the HLM to HLN models. I know it's the same HD2 DLP, but were there other changes to the color wheel or optics? If not then I may need to merge those two into a single generation in my rankings. If that's the case though then things are screwed up. The digiupdate web site has always referred to the '63s as being "3rd generation" and the '85s as "4th generation" so I was wanting to be consistent.

Brad
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post #106 of 2291 Old 11-12-2004, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bgriffis
The digiupdate web site has always referred to the '63s as being "3rd generation" and the '85s as "4th generation" so I was wanting to be consistent.

Panasonic and Mitsubishi both had generation one light engines with the HD1 chip. Samsung started with generation two of the DLP chip. I don't think there is a logical pattern. The numerical order of the HLP models also represents different PQ levels. There was no such distinction among the HLM sets or the HLN sets.

There was no announced difference between HLM and HLN light engines. There were firmware changes at a rapid clip during that period. There was also a change in at lease one chip on the mother board because the SM option to turn of "black enhancement" went away between HLM and HLN models. I don't remember which chip it was but Panasonic supplied it for the HLM sets.

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post #107 of 2291 Old 11-12-2004, 11:38 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by f300v10
mayhew,

The bulb is in the left rear corner of the set (viewed from the front). I have put my hand very close to the fan exhaust when the set (4674) is on, and the air is warm, but not that warm. I think the set draws cool air from the front and it exits to the rear, so I don't think an extra fan is needed. You should have close to 3" clearance on each side, which should be more than enough room for the air to circulate.

Joe

Great, thanks for the feedback.

For those who have the TV and are happy with the picture, just curious, are you plugging straight into a wall socket (or surge protector). Or, do you have a line conditioner? Just wondering if your great picture needs any help at all (and if I should save money on the line conditioner).
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post #108 of 2291 Old 11-13-2004, 05:16 AM
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Does anyone know how to set the Samsung remote for a Scientific Atlanta cable box, because the codes are not listed?
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post #109 of 2291 Old 11-13-2004, 06:21 AM
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How about video game lag? Anyone tried this out yet? Thanks.
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post #110 of 2291 Old 11-13-2004, 07:14 PM
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OK, I have to eat my words on this one. The problem is that when you go into the service menu's it defaults to the "Wide TV" picture size mode. That mode does indeed scale and has more overscan. The 1:1 pixel mapping mode is the poorly named "Expand" mode which I never tried expecting per the name that it was some kind of stretch mode for expanding 4:3 material or something.

So if you have one of the HLP sets, make sure you set your picture size to Expand when viewing HD (720p) material. You'll get less overscan and 1:1 pixel mapping.


Quote:


Originally posted by Cheezmo
Just to add another kink into things.

The HLM and HLN (at least prior to the W1 change) mapped 720p DVI directly, pixel for pixel. It was easy to see viewing a 720p multiburst pattern from an Accupel test pattern generator, where you could see one row on, one row off. (DNIE disabled of course as the edge enhancement it adds would totally corrupt the high resolution portions of such a test pattern).

With the HLP's, this is no longer the case. There is some scaling going on (resulting in more overscan, 3-4% vs. just under 2% previously) and obvious scaling induced banding in the highest frequency pixel burst. So, in that respect the older models generated a more "pure" 720p image. I'm hoping this is something that can be corrected, either by Samsung in some midstream update or via some hitherto unknown service mode "scaling" adjustment. Very disappointing.


Steve Martin
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If you can see my pixels, you are sitting too close.
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post #111 of 2291 Old 11-14-2004, 07:22 AM
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OK, I picked up the 4674 yesterday afternoon to compare it to the Mits 725 I had previously. First observation is that 46" is way too small and will probably try the 5674 when avaliable. You just don't get that cinematic effect with an 46" tv and I have been used to a 52".

I have to say that I do like the fact that there is no glare but am not sure this set is worth the money as it doesn't have a HD tuner. I also do not understand why Samsung grays out the tint control on the DVI/HDMi inputs.

So I popped in DVE and did a quick calibration and it seems ok. I think the color on the Mits was more natural. Also, the whites seem to have a bluish tint on the Sammy. Black levels seem close to the Mits.

In addition I just don't think these sets have the same build quality as the Mits either, but I do like the thin bezel cabinet.

So now what to do...
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post #112 of 2291 Old 11-14-2004, 01:36 PM
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After more tweaking today, as I posted in the other thread, PQ is improving, still wrestling with yellows that seem to be more limey, but other than that PQ seems good. HD looks great, and SD seens ok.

Now that I have a better idea of what this sets PQ looks like and I think the 5674 might end up being the keeper set for me. It seems to be the comprimise. Also the analog tuner is much faster (I had forgotten how fast) than the HD tuners, like the one on the Mits.

Anyway, I don't know that I will spend much more time with the 4674 tweaking as I will hopefullyhave the 5674 in the next few weeks. I sure hope the decoder in the replacement 5674 will be closer, but time will tell.
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post #113 of 2291 Old 11-14-2004, 02:04 PM
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There is no way to disable side buttons, service menu or not. There are some pretty cool test patterns in the service menus, and the labels in most parts of the service menu are pretty understandable. I believe with some careful messing around, it would be possible to fix most color and picture errors. Boy does this set look good, Discovery HD theater is great, and so are the other thirteen HD channels I get here in Raleigh. By the way, the speakers are great too; I watched LOTR FOTR last night and the tv speakers can get loud, even when at about level 50.
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post #114 of 2291 Old 11-14-2004, 02:26 PM
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I am starting to really get attached to this set too but the 46" is a little too small so cant wait to replace it w/the 5674. Then tweak some more and then eventually have it ISF'd.

Cheezmo, do you ever make it to San Francisco Bay Area?!
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post #115 of 2291 Old 11-14-2004, 04:26 PM
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I have learned so much from reading this forum. Thank you to everyone that takes the time to inform the less knowledgeable. Everyone is so well versed it is a bit intimidating writing a question. I made a prev. attempt in owning a Samsung dlp, but returned it b/c of audio/video sync. issues. Like many other people decided to wait for the 74`s. Bought a 5674 from Tweeter yesterday, suppose to get in 3 weeks. Tweeter had a sale this weekend that was not advertised, for Avid members 10% 0ff, you become a Avid member when you spend a certain amount of money, I qualified after my last dlp purchase. Which leads me to my questions.
1) The salesman talked me into buying 250 dollars of monster cables, Do I need, and if not what should I buy? I am a comcast customer and will upgrade to a comcast hdtv box. I will not be hooking up to computer, but my kids probably will want to hook their playstation up. I will buy a surround system once I am sure the tv works correctly.
2) I also bought a 150 dollar surge protector. Is this needed? If not what should I buy. All these things were 10% off this weekend, otherwise they would of been more.
3) I need a DVD player can someone suggest one that will work well w/ this tv
4) Lastly how should I hook this whole thing up, I plan on getting someone thats knows what they are doing and showing them this thread and saying wire it, like these people suggested. Again thank you for your time, I have a feeling there are alot of less knowledgable lurkers w/ these questions.
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post #116 of 2291 Old 11-14-2004, 05:00 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by wko
I have learned so much from reading this forum. Thank you to everyone that takes the time to inform the less knowledgeable. Everyone is so well versed it is a bit intimidating writing a question. I made a prev. attempt in owning a Samsung dlp, but returned it b/c of audio/video sync. issues. Like many other people decided to wait for the 74`s. Bought a 5674 from Tweeter yesterday, suppose to get in 3 weeks. Tweeter had a sale this weekend that was not advertised, for Avid members 10% 0ff, you become a Avid member when you spend a certain amount of money, I qualified after my last dlp purchase. Which leads me to my questions.
1) The salesman talked me into buying 250 dollars of monster cables, Do I need, and if not what should I buy? I am a comcast customer and will upgrade to a comcast hdtv box. I will not be hooking up to computer, but my kids probably will want to hook their playstation up. I will buy a surround system once I am sure the tv works correctly.
2) I also bought a 150 dollar surge protector. Is this needed? If not what should I buy. All these things were 10% off this weekend, otherwise they would of been more.
3) I need a DVD player can someone suggest one that will work well w/ this tv
4) Lastly how should I hook this whole thing up, I plan on getting someone thats knows what they are doing and showing them this thread and saying wire it, like these people suggested. Again thank you for your time, I have a feeling there are alot of less knowledgable lurkers w/ these questions.


Actually, I am not a big fan of Monster. Are you running a processor and Amp(s) or a receiver?

I have had great luck with BlueJeans HDMI Cables and Coax Dig cable, but am running Nordost and Virtual Dynamic Nite interconnects between my Krell HTS 7.1 and my TAS and B&W speakers.

As far as a surge suppressor, I actually am running a UPS so that in the event of a power failure the fans keep running on the DLP and my DISH 921 and can shut them down normally.

As far as the DVD player, I am using a Panasonic XP30 that ranked high in the DVD benchmark testing and possibly waiting for HDDVD. There are some new up-converting players coming out that are worth a look. Depending on what you want to spend, the new Denons 3910/2910 also rated high in the DVD benchmark tests and I might pick one up just to compare it to the XP30.
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post #117 of 2291 Old 11-14-2004, 05:16 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by wko
Bought a 5674 from Tweeter yesterday, suppose to get in 3 weeks.

1) The salesman talked me into buying 250 dollars of monster cables


If I were you I would take the cables back and spend the next three weeks looking into other options.

There are good quality component cables that are cheaper than Monster cables and a lot of people here to advise you. As for HDMI or DVI cables Monster charges three to four times what good cables cost. Lots of free advice for that too.

2) I also bought a 150 dollar surge protector. Is this needed?

It might be a good idea but you can do better with a little research. I'll bet the surge protector was a Monster too.

3) I need a DVD player can someone suggest one that will work well w/ this tv

With the TV you bought I would want an upscaling DVD player connected to either DVI or HDMI. Your new TV has both inputs.

The Panasonic DVD-S97s is new and has it's own "monster" FAQ thread. It also comes with a 6' HDMI cable.

Check out this thread. The first message is used to collect information about the player. You can read enough owners comments by going to the end of the thread and reading back-wards.

Panasonic DVD-S97S FAQ / Brain dump

4) Lastly how should I hook this whole thing up, I plan on getting someone thats knows what they are doing and showing them this thread and saying wire it, like these people suggested.

If you dump the Monster products and make the initial connections yourself you would have close to enough to pay for a certified ISF calibration for your set. The person you hire to do that can suggest the optimum setup for your family.

If you want to do it yourself and you are reasonably patient I would be happy to help you. Just PM me. If we get into trouble I'm sure someone will help us.

I don't think you mentioned what source of HDTV you will be using.


Calibration Resources:

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post #118 of 2291 Old 11-14-2004, 05:40 PM
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First of all, great site...I am glad I have found it! I am building a new house and need some advice! My question is regarding the viewing angles with the Sammy xx74 sets: I am debating between a plasma or the new 4674 sammy in my entertainment niche above the fireplace. My concern is the verticle viewing angle - with a plasma, there is no problem....what about the Sammy xx74? I am thinking it would not be "optimal", but wonder just how much of a difference it would be? The main viewing area will be about 10-12 feet away. Thanks for the help!
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post #119 of 2291 Old 11-14-2004, 06:00 PM
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If you are looking at above a fireplace, Plasma is the way to go for many reasons, viewing angle is just one. You can put it on an tilt wall mount to tilt it down as well. Plus the Plasmas are 4" vs 16" deep for the Sammy. The only item that concerns me and the reason plasma is an issue for me, is due to picture burn. If you watch channels like FOX, CNBC, etc, with stationary logos or tickers might create a problem. So thats why I am in the DLP/LCD camp.
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post #120 of 2291 Old 11-14-2004, 06:17 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by gtsum
First of all, great site...I am glad I have found it! I am building a new house and need some advice! My question is regarding the viewing angles with the Sammy xx74 sets: I am debating between a plasma or the new 4674 sammy in my entertainment niche above the fireplace. My concern is the verticle viewing angle - with a plasma, there is no problem....what about the Sammy xx74? I am thinking it would not be "optimal", but wonder just how much of a difference it would be? The main viewing area will be about 10-12 feet away. Thanks for the help!

MY tv is 48" above my fireplace. Slight loss in brightness when I Sit on the couch, but not bad at all. My Samm 5063 is only 14 inches deep? I have 24 inches depth for my nook. Fits perfect. I think you'll be fine. If you don't like it, take it back to CC.

Dale
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