Build You Own (BYO) TV Stand - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 1435 Old 12-24-2004, 06:19 AM
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Interesting.
I never had to strip anything, so that really isn't a issue. I do have a chair that someone threw out with a coat of ?? that is flacking off would be the exception. I don't think it is worth it to do anything with ti as I HATE to strip wood period.

I see shellac is out.
Never though of lacquer. Why is that susceptible to water when that is used for auto finishes.
A month for varnish to cure?
Could you give an example of improperly applying poly?
"Dust motes"?

I applied the first coat of poly. I have used a 3m (I believe) product as a sub for sandpaper that looks like the material that furnace filters are made of. What have you used to smooth out the coats?

Did anyone see this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=484959

Really don't know about that.

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post #272 of 1435 Old 12-27-2004, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Well Gang... here's the finished product. It is not 100% of what I wanted with regard to finish, but I did salvage it enough that SWMBO is extremely happy with it. The height is just right for us, and it works great with the wood finish of the room's walnut walls because all you really see (after all is said and done) are the leading edges.

I'll post a pix tomorrow with the TV in place in the right room (in the basement here).
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post #273 of 1435 Old 12-28-2004, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's another look at the finished stand with the TV on it. I've included pointer arrows to indicate things like the frameless glass doors, the center channel placement, and the storage drawer.

Underneath, there are eight (8) Shepard casters to aid in moving this monster around on the padded berber carpet. The extra wheels are pretty much hidden by the kick skirt, but I think the weight is better distributed than when I had four casters. There's about 3/4" - 7/8" open space between the carpet and the wood.

I think I'm going to get a nice horizontal stainless or aluminum handle for the drawer although I don't really need it. I can pull on the bottom and it glides out nicely. I used 12" full-extention ball-bearing slides so putting manuals, remotes, and other junk in there is easy.

Once I get around to flanking this setup with shelving units, you won't be able to look behind the cabinet, and just for the record, it's 20" deep, 60" wide, and about 21" high. I also want to get a clean power strip for the components, and when I get the back all arranged, maybe I'll take a picture of that too. I bought a wire channel setup that I want to integrate. Oopps... forgot to mention that I did not mount the pegboard back and have left the back of the cabinet open for the time being. My Yamaha RX is a bit deep, and should I replace it, I'll be looking for something that is around 16" deep rather than 19" with a huge 1" thick volume knob!

It's been a fun project and yep... I'll be here to offer any help I can. BTW, _this_ thread has now been officially added to the "most popular" thread list. Says something for all us creative types !
LL

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post #274 of 1435 Old 12-28-2004, 01:11 PM
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IronHorse,

Outstanding job!!!! You've given me something to aspire to.
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post #275 of 1435 Old 12-31-2004, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Just wanted to wish everyone here a very Healthy and Happy New Year! I'm already happy because the Yankees got Randy Johnson! Carlos Beltran is next!!!

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post #276 of 1435 Old 12-31-2004, 10:24 AM
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Clap Clap Clap Clap. Very nice iron, very nice.

(Yanks are still going to lose )
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post #277 of 1435 Old 12-31-2004, 10:29 AM
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Dido, IronHorse on the Happy New Year.
I planned on using 6 of the Sheppard ball casters. Do you really think 8 were needed? I also have Berber carpet which is nice since it is not a deep plush.

As a word of advice, DON'T skimp and try to use those 'cheap' dual plastic wheel Chinese casters. It's not worth it. The plastic wheeled will separate from the axle sooner or later.

I still not sure what to do about the 2nd coat of poly. It is marred by 'specks' all over that I don't like at all. If I try to sand them down it will take the gloss off the finish. I purposely delayed the poly so the dust in the room would settle. I don't know if the specks were in the can from prior uses or where they came from. They are about the size of grains of sand.

If I had to do it all over again I would consider the solid plywood sides as IronHorse did since that would make it much easier. But, I would of used 1x1's as corner braces where the shelves meet the sides.

The triangle corner braces that were cut to use, turned out that I didn't need them. I sat and knelled on the top shelf and there was NO racking either front to back or side to side that I was concerned about.

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post #278 of 1435 Old 12-31-2004, 10:52 AM
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IMO, the best thing to do would be to go for a third coat. Get a fresh can of poly and a new brush. Sand (I recommend wet sanding with wet/dry sandpaper). Wipe (first with a damp cloth, then with dry, if you wet-sanded). After the dust settles, use a new tack cloth to remove the residual dust (is it possible your specks are bits of dust left behind from the previous sanding that globbed together when the poly was applied?). Apply the poly. If possible, find a way to "tent" the piece with a plastic dropcloth to avoid any new dust.

An expensive solution in terms of materials, but the best, if you want a (relatively) flawless finish.

Happy New Year, all.
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post #279 of 1435 Old 12-31-2004, 11:31 AM
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What do you think about using a foam brush?

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post #280 of 1435 Old 12-31-2004, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Bruce...

I used a Purdy _Non-Oil_ brush called an ELITE 2½". I would not use a foam brush as they supposedly create more bubbles than a high-quality real brush. Also, don't use foam with shellac if you go that route.

After I applied the shellac, I _lightly_ sanded with 220, then wiped it down with a tack cloth. Next I applied the 1st coat of water based urethane. It actually looked decent at that point. The next day, I sanded again, using 300 paper and I should note that I used a solid felt sanding block rather than a rubber or wood block. Gave it the third coat after tack-ragging it again and the finish looked pretty darn good. My finish coat is Miniwax Satin Finish water-based urethane. It is somewhere in-between a semi-gloss and a rubbed effect. Fine for the stand.

As I said in an earlier post, we might fuss too much over the finish, but in truth, a good deal of the wood is now out of sight, and when I get done, all you'll see is the leading edges and skirt.

BTW, I ordered a Belkin 1100VA UPS with AVR that I will mount in the wiring pocket I built in the back of my stand as soon as it arrives. This is supposed to be a combination surge, battery backup, and clean power filter for the current coming in. It doesn't have provisions for cable, but that's OK. Once I get this mounted I'll rig up the cable chute to clean up the wiring in the back.

Bruce... One last thought, and I might even try this on a sample piece of wood. Get a can of wipe on poly and see if you can improve the finish look after sanding. I bought a can but haven't tried it yet.

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post #281 of 1435 Old 01-01-2005, 04:36 AM
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Hey all,
Sorry I've been away for a week. Baby has been a little sick as has the Momma. I did get the bottom built but there was no way it was going to be finished for Christmas Eve, so it is just sitting there in the garage. Had to spend this week building some quick cabinets for a customer. Iron Horse, it looks good. You never did reply to me as far as finishing mine!! LOL Bruce, if you look back at the early posts, we had a discussion on finishes and brushes etc. Don't use a foam brush with waterbased poly. It will cause bubbles. I know from past trials when it first came out. Get a good quality brush for the finish. Sounds like you got some dust in the finish. I use a finishing pad between coats. Looks like a cleaning pad for dishes. They work well. The tack cloth helps a lot too. As does finishing in a different place from where you built it. You could also run an air filter. I actually bought one at HD years ago that we use on the job. We do a ton of remodeling, usually involving demolition in some really nice houses, and bring the filter along to keep the dust down. Spent about $100 I think. And it was portable.
I also took a look at your link RE the center channel. I was thinking of doing something temporary on top of the TV since I will someday have a full cabinet around the TV with provisions for the speaker on top. But I am a carpenter, and that means I will probably build a new unit for a new TV before the top is finished!
Iron Horse, did you use tempered glass? I had some problems with one that I did years back with the glass breaking at the hinges.
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post #282 of 1435 Old 01-01-2005, 04:47 AM
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Check this out,
I was pulling the little bit if hair that I have out of my head while building my cabinet. My panels, sides etc were not coming out square and It was driving me nuts. Framing squares said they were good, sides measured parallel, but corner to corner was off. Wasn't always consistent, and figured my table saw might be off a little, but rips were coming out parallel. I finally told myself to grab another framing square from the shed, and sure enough the FRAMING SQUARE WAS OUT OF SQUARE. In all my years of work, I have never ever seen a framing square go off. Neither has my partner. I threw it right in the dumpster. It was a thick square too. They just don't go out of wack like that. Problem is my base was already done. We were working on the customers project. I had to do some rigging to straighten mine out. Only I know where to look. A good carpenter can fix his mistakes!!

Pablo
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post #283 of 1435 Old 01-01-2005, 08:26 AM
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Re foam brushes & water-based poly: Yes, there are bubbles in the liquid coat when you use a foam brush with water-based poly, but in my experience those bubbles disappear and the finish is fine, EXCEPT when you try to re-brush a surface after it's already begun to get tacky (which happens pretty quick, with w/b poly!)

Re a framing square out of square: Says something about manufacturing practices today, doesn't it? I had the same problem with a framing square and was about to throw it out when my dad (a retired Mech E) spotted a tiny burr in the inside corner of the square. Some quick work with a sharp file rescued the square from the trash. If you have a good table saw whose entire table is a machined casting (rather than stamped sheet metal), a corner of the table is likely to be the most precise 90 degree angle you'll find in your shop -- great for checking squares, etc. Again, a tip from my MechE dad! (By the way, when I say my dad "spotted" the burr, I mean he went over the square with a fine-toothed comb for a good 5 or 10 minutes, checking everything he could think to check every which way he could think to check it. Few of us devote this much attention to our tools! I mean, how complex is a square?? But then, he'd spent a good part of his career figuring out why manufacturing processes yielded parts slightly out of tolerance and difficult for production workers to assemble)
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post #284 of 1435 Old 01-01-2005, 08:33 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by videobruce
What do you think about using a foam brush?

I've noticed two things that can make foam brushes leave air bubbles behind:

Cheap foam: Not all foam brushes are alike. The cheapest of them use a foam which has much larger air pockets than the better quality ones. The denser foam releases the urethane more slowly, which seems to help prevent...

Leaning on the brush: Just like with regular brushes, people try to stretch the urethane too far. You're better off going back to the can more often and keeping the tip wet. If you lean on the foam brush, it will pour out air bubbles.

I'm not a fan of water based urethane, so you're on your own there
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post #285 of 1435 Old 01-02-2005, 05:49 AM
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I never used a water bases poly or intend too. The obly water based anything I use is paint.
I looked at the 'specs' again and it could be air bubbles. I know it isn't airborne dust as it did it two days after I stained and wiped down the piece.

Here are macros of the issue;
LL

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post #286 of 1435 Old 01-02-2005, 05:57 AM
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Here is another shot. This is the WORST example. The whole surface ISN'T this bad! Seems to be a combination of raised grain, air pockets and MAYTBE dirt.
These were taken around 6-8" from the surface with no flash using the overhead lights for reflection. I cropped them down as far as I could and slightly reduced them to fit the requirements to post here.
LL

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post #287 of 1435 Old 01-02-2005, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Paul...

Glad to see you still have a sense of humor... will I finish your cabinet... sure... poof! It's finished.

As far as the glass goes, what I did was took the glass guy's advice... I used factory laminated sheet safety glass. The difference was $30 for two doors or $108 for two tempered doors. Both are ¼" thick and the laminated glass fits the hinges fine. You have to use the little pressure plate with e hinge set screws to distribute the clamping force. The guy even sanded the edges and broke the corners with a tight radius. Then he put a glass oil on the edges (standard practice). I think they call it a pencil finish.

That dust collector for $100 sounds like a smart investment for me. I'll look around at HD next time I go. I got a $100 gift card for Christmas from my son and I'm itching to buy something.
Bruce...

Man that looks like moon craters. On my last coat, after I used the #300 paper, I also used an ultrafine fiber pad like Pablo mentioned. You can also use #0000 steel wool, but then you have to blow off the particles, vacumn, and then use a tack cloth. You should _NOT_ have a finish like that if you are just reasonably careful. Of course, I don't know how powerful that macro shot was... it might be 300X!!! Don't give up.

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post #288 of 1435 Old 01-03-2005, 05:33 AM
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It was at a distance of 6" the clostest I could get. It just shows the issue better. It's not really magified, one would see that if they were looking at it that close with ones eye.

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post #289 of 1435 Old 01-03-2005, 05:51 AM
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Hi guys,
New to this thread and to woodworking but plan on building my EC sometime this year.
One suggestion on your raised grain, is has been told to me from a couple of finishing experts that when you plan on using a water based finish, to raise the grain first by wiping down with a wet rag and then sand it back down and you will minimize this problem.
HTH
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post #290 of 1435 Old 01-03-2005, 05:58 AM
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NO water based finishes used...........

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post #291 of 1435 Old 01-03-2005, 07:55 AM
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sorry my bad
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post #292 of 1435 Old 01-03-2005, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Paul...

Just wondered if you bought one of those Delta triangular deals with a built in light or the floor model with the two bags? There seems to be a number of variants of the dual-bag setup on eBay. I also seem to recall reading about combining a large plastic garbage barrel and running an intake and exhaust port thru the cover so dust and chips go into the barrel, but I forgot where I saw that.

Quote:
Originally posted by Pablopsd
Hey all,
You could also run an air filter. I actually bought one at HD years ago that we use on the job. We do a ton of remodeling, usually involving demolition in some really nice houses, and bring the filter along to keep the dust down. Spent about $100 I think. And it was portable.

I'm attaching a composite picture of a few different dust collection options that could be used by the DIY'er and just about any of these units would help reduce dust and make finishing a cabinet a little bit easier. Even the little Shop-Vac unit will completely filter the air in a 290 square foot room every 10 minutes. The Delta AP400 is reasonably priced and it would interesting to find out if this unit would also filter dust in the air as opposed to only collecting sawdust.
LL

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post #293 of 1435 Old 01-03-2005, 05:22 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by videobruce
I never used a water bases poly or intend too. The obly water based anything I use is paint.
I looked at the 'specs' again and it could be air bubbles. I know it isn't airborne dust as it did it two days after I stained and wiped down the piece.

Here are macros of the issue;

It is really hard to tell from here, but I think I see a few things.

The larger dark bubbles look to be from stain in the grain trying to escape. I've had this problem with hardwoods. You have to be certain you get all the stain off. I use white terry cloth towels to wipe the stain until the towels come up clean. It can help to let the stain age a while before urethaning.

There may be some regular air bubbles.

Some plain old dust is evident. I don't have a "clean room", or air filtration, so I go the simple route. After going over every inch with a tack cloth, I leave the piece to be urethaned alone for several hours in my garage. It is important to let all the dust settle out of the air. Don't open doors, HVAC vents, run fans, etc. Do one last pass with a fresh tack cloth before urethaning.

I can't guess about the raised grain.
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post #294 of 1435 Old 01-03-2005, 06:01 PM
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Iron Horse.
The air filter I bought was a Rigid one, not the Delta one. When I bought it, it was the only game in town. We use it a lot on the jobs. It is really just a fan on one end with a pre filter and another filter inside. I do like the Delta one for a permanent or hanging install.

Bruce, it is crud in the finish. Be it something that settled on it after or possibly something in the can. Was it brand new? How warm was it when you applied it? What exactly was it that you used? I don't have a dedicated room to finish anything. I usually just bring whatever it is inside from the shop after I build it, and finish it in the house. I have used so many different finishes from water-based to hand rubbed tung oils, and never had anything happen like that. I usually vacuum and wipe down the project and have been fine. I think you should be able to sand out the imperfections and apply another coat.

As far as stain coming up from the grain. How long did you wait between stain and finish? The stain should be dry and shouldn't be an issue.
Raised grain would be consistent along the whole grain pattern. You shouldn't have an issue with hardwoods. It would be more prevalent with softwoods, such as pine etc.
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post #295 of 1435 Old 01-03-2005, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Bruce...

We're all probably spinning your head with suggestions, but if I can, allow me to make one more.

Get a sample piece of representative wood, say a piece of 3/4 solid or plywood, maybe 5" X 20" (rough dimensions). Give it a quick sanding, then apply your stain like you did before. Wait 24 hours, and then give the un-waxed shellac (Bullseye Clear) a try. Dillute the shellac in a plastic cup 50/50 with denatured alcohol. You can proabably give it a very light sanding (220#) a few hours later, and then apply a 2nd coat. Use a fine (gray or white) fiber pad on that coat after it has dried.

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx...7&FamilyID=256

Then take another crack at the poly, but before you apply, get yourself a conical varnish/paint filter and pour some of your poly through the filter into a cup. That way you are 100% positive there's no crystalizing that might've been in the can going on the wood. Let that first coat dry overnight, and then lightly hit the surface with 300# paper before tacking it and then applying the 2nd coat of poly. Once that's thoroughly dried, you could use the pad once again (no paper this time) to sort of burnish the finish before applying the poly. If you're doing the finishing in a garage that is somewhat warm, you could put some water on the floor to keep the concrete damp so dust won't fly as you walk around the piece.

I went with water based satin finish because everyone I talked to said it really lies down nicely if you do the prep, and it dries very quick too. It came out pretty nice. Not Henredon or Stickley nice, but relatively flat and _almost_ rubbed. Considering I was going to pain the darn thing black 2 weeks ago, I'm fairly pleased.

Hope this helps.
LL

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post #296 of 1435 Old 01-03-2005, 06:37 PM
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Kenlex
As far as a bur is concerned on the square.. It was out of square 1/8 over the 24" section. NOT a bur! It was a tweak, or manufactured that way. On the job we are using speedsquares all the time except for stair stringers, so I didn't really see it earlier. When we started to think back about it, we had a couple of times on the job that things seemed off, and just figured the help wasn't careful or something. Not major issues, but just enough for us anal builders to notice!
I was able to make do, and deal with the issues.
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post #297 of 1435 Old 01-04-2005, 06:14 AM
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Pablo,

Having a framing square go bad is not an uncommon occurance, particularly with an L-shaped "rafter" square (which I assume you are describing. All it takes is one good drop, or even improper storage to knock one out of true. This goes double if you're using one of the $7.00 Home Despot specials.

Fortunately, you don't have to have a good square edge to check a square. All you need is a straight reference line. Align one edge of the square with a line on a flat surface, and use it to draw a line perpendicular to the first one. Then, flip the square over and check the line you just drew. If the square still lines up with it, it's dead on. If not, replace or attempt to "adjust" it.

Aluminum squares that are not too far off (probably within 1/8" in 24, maybe less) can be fixed. All you need is a hard surface (an anvil is good) and a ball-peen hammer or large punch. By striking the crotch or outside corner of the square (on the flat face) you can slightly expand the metal, thereby changing the angle of the square.

Now, to get this back on topic, I've been fascinated by this thread. As a sawdust maker myself, I find any discussion of techniques or design fascinating. As soon as I complete my current project (a window bench/bookcase combination that is going to hit the finishing stage this week) I'll begin design on an entertainment center. It's going to be a real challenge in that I have a large TV on a small wall, but I can't wait to jump in to it.

Dan
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post #298 of 1435 Old 01-04-2005, 06:49 AM
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One interesting point; the 'pine' edge 'L' molding on top had very little 'specs'! Just the maple and birch pieces.
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The larger dark bubbles look to be from stain in the grain trying to escape.

Interesting. I did wipe the piece down. I'm sure I didn't get ALL the extra stain off. I might of put it on a little heavy since I wanted a darker wood than the stain seemed to be. I have a tendency of 'laying it down' when I paint. I really hate a second coat! There weren't any 'specs' before I poly'ed the first time.
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get yourself a conical varnish/paint filter and pour some of your poly through the filter

Another thing I probably should of done............

I did wait a day or longer before I stained and after I sanded/wiped the surface with a towel.
I did wait a day after I rubbed the excess stain off.
I did wait a day between poly coats.
The temp. of the room was around 50F. Low humidity. It is a separate room, but not totally sealed from the rest of the basement, but no traffic in the basement (no kids.
The poly was 2 years old I believe from a bathroom project (new window, wood door frame and medicine cabinet). (I know what you are going to say about that one........ )

I hate to ask this, but just what exactly is a 'tack cloth'? I hear it all the time and I took is as just a clean rag.

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post #299 of 1435 Old 01-04-2005, 07:04 AM
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A tack cloth is basically a piece of cheesecloth that has been impregnated with some sort of "sticky stuff." I think it's a wax. In any case, it picks up the dust and dirt that a clean rag will just push around.

They are cheap and can be had at most any hardware store w/ a paint department.

Dan
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post #300 of 1435 Old 01-04-2005, 07:11 AM
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Tack as in tacky? I suppose when they get dirty you toss them?

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Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
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