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Artwood's Avatar Artwood 02:48 PM 07-04-2005
I think anyone who can build their own stand, adjust thier own display for a great picture, and then post about it here with links must be a genius! I've always admired common sense people who could just handle things. People like that should rule the country!

danvines's Avatar danvines 04:51 PM 07-04-2005
Ryan - The top is plywood with ~1-1/2" wide pine edge banding w/ a bullnose routed edge.

schaffer - the overall dimensions are 64-1/2 wide x 23 tall x 20 deep. The width was designed to match the dimension of the TV cabinet. The height and depth were basically derived from the old stand that I was using temporarily. In truth, it could stand to be about 2" deeper to fit the receiver better, but it works fine.

Art - one of my favorite quotes is from Robert Heinlein: "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, con a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, and die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

Dan
IronHorse's Avatar IronHorse 08:52 PM 07-05-2005
Jason...

That's what I get for not checking in on a daily basis. Actually I ordered a new Biesemeyer Commercial fence tonight! Should have it by the end of the week. I want to build an outfeed table and the B-Fence is a natural for that with the angle iron mount.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonColeman View Post

IronHorse-

I have a 52" Unifence that I'm selling if you're interested. I currently have it on a Delta Contractor's Saw II, which I am planning on selling, but I could always sell the Delta with its original fence system and sell the Unifence separately. I have the 52" Unifence system, the laminated table board and a lower laminated shelf and bracket.

For that matter, anyone interested in a souped-up 1 1/2 HP Delta Contractor's Saw II with a mobile base?

Jason

Jason... JFTR, the saw did not look like that when I got it. I spent about 50-60 hours cleaning, sanding, and painting it. Right now it looks like a 5 year old $1500+ Unisaw. It runs like a dream, installed all new belts, put in a Forrest WWII blade... gave her a nice mobile base, and built a new dust collection door to hook up to my DC system. Yeah... anyone in the Springfield area looking for a contractor's saw... I have a really nice HD 1HP 110v/220v Craftsman, built in the old days by Emerson Electric. Cast iron table and wing, outfeed roller, mobile base, and DC Box with slide out drawer. First $175 gets it with a couple of blades, throat inserts, etc.

Mike

Mike
LL
okbyme's Avatar okbyme 02:44 PM 07-11-2005
Warning: I don't know a thing about carpentry and I am NOT handy, but I think I can handle this project (unless you talk me out of it).

I have a sheet-rocked alcove that will just barely accept my soon to be ordered new 75-pound 46 inch dlp tv. The only construction that I have to do is build a shelf to get the tv to the right height (about 20 above the floor).

The alcove is closed on three sides and the top is also closed, so it will be a major pain to try and get the tv in the hole (and even harder to get it out when I need to get to the back of the unit). So I was planning on using two 24 deep x48 wide plywood shelves (the inside dimensions of the hole. The first shelf would be the supporting shelf (which itself would be supported by three 2 by 4's underneath). The second shelf would sit right on top of it with three equally spaced center drawer slides locking the two together. My thought is that I could slide the top shelf in/out with the tv on it. Of course as I pull the shelf out I would expect to support it underneath with some kind of temporary brace (maybe a table, or a stack of phone books or whatever). Does this make sense? Will it work? Any suggestions on materials to use? Also, to pretty it up, I figure that I can put a piece of trim over the front edge of the sliding piece that's tall enough to cover the leading edge of both pieces of plywood shelving.

I don't own any tools but I figure all I need is a saw, hammer and nails and screwdriver and screws plus theee center drawer slides for about $5 each at Home Depot (saw them yesterday).

Any advice?
danvines's Avatar danvines 09:01 PM 07-11-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by okbyme View Post

Any advice?

Yep. Forget about the $5 each slides at Home Depot. Look for something more in line with these.

Actually, there are probably better and/or heavier-duty solutions, but, I'm too lazy to look for them right now. One trick to using multiple center-mount slides... they must be PERFECTLY aligned or they will bind.

Dan
Swamibob's Avatar Swamibob 04:18 PM 07-16-2005
I have a few more questions. I am going to make a pretty basic stand with a top, bottom. and 4 walls, and one shelf in each of the 3 compartments (similar to the one the spiff69 built) except I am going to put my center channel speaker, amp, and 1 component on the top shelf. This leaves me room for 6 more components inside of the entertainment stand. Here are the questions.

1) I don't have a table saw only a skill saw. I plan on buying 2 pieces of 4X8 oak plywood at lowes tomorrow and having them cut 1 piece in half (2 pieces 2'X8') and cut the other one to 4'X70" and then cut it in half so it will be 2 pieces of 2'X70". I will use the 2'X70" pieces for the top and bottom. I have a plasma tv mounted on the wall and it is 27" above the floor. With my 12" center channel speaker, I only want the top of the stand to be 13". I plan on holding the top on with wood glue and wood dowels. Do you think that 4 dowels into the top on each of the partitions and gluing between the partitions and the top is enough to hold the top and to move it around or do you think I should use wood blocks in the corners and screw them into the plywood? I do not want to use any wood plugs or putty to hide screw holes or have the stain not turn out good because of putty.

2)I am trying to match South American Rosewood (speakers-onyx rockets are made from this wood and look awesome!). Spiff69 said "I used minwax sedona red stain (2 coats) and then their fast drying polyurethane (3 coats). I was trying to achieve a rosewood kind of look." Why did he not use rosewood stain in the first place? Will it not make it look like south american rosewood? I thought I saw some stain specifically for rosewood. I did like the look of spiffs finish (it looked exceptional actually) but it looked a little too bright for rosewood.

3)What is the best glue to glue this together with? I have never really done a project like this so I want to learn from you guys who know the ins and outs of this.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks
danvines's Avatar danvines 07:44 AM 07-17-2005
swami -

1) Don't count on the guy at Lowes giving you very accurate cuts. It can happen, if you have the right person doing the cutting, but it's not very likely they will succeed even if they try. You can buy (or make) a guide for your skilsaw that will allow you to make VERY accurate cuts on sheet goods. That is what I and many others do, as it's often much easier than trying to wrestle a 60+ lb. 4x8 sheet of plywood onto the tablesaw by oneself.

I haven't looked back at the pics of Spiff's stand, but does it have a back on it? Will yours? If so, the idea of using doweled butt joints between the plywood pieces is probably OK. If there is no back, I doubt that type of joinery will adequately resist racking. you'd be better off inserting putting the "sides" into dadoes in the top and bottom. This can be done w/ a router if you don't have a table saw.

2) I'm not a finishing guy, but my advise is to test several different finishes on some scraps of your plywood before doing the finished cabinet.

3) Standard yellow wood glue (Titebond, Elmers, etc) will be plenty strong.

One more point - how do you plan on covering up the edges of the plywood? I assure you it will be quite ugly unless you trim it with hardwood or egeband it.

Good luck.
Dan
JasonColeman's Avatar JasonColeman 11:46 AM 07-17-2005
If you've got a circular saw with a decent blade (for plywood), simply use a straightedge (either aluminum, hardwood, etc) as a guide/fence and you'll get a much more accurate cut than having somebody at Lowe's cut it for you. Have them rough cut it 1/2-1" larger than you need it and you can finish cut it yourself.

Also, cover the edges with edge banding (available at any woodworking store...Rockler, Woodcraft, etc). You simply iron it on and trim the excess edges with either a router or a specialty hand-plane (razor blade with guide $15-20) specifically designed for edge banding.

Jason
JasonColeman's Avatar JasonColeman 11:55 AM 07-17-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronHorse View Post

Actually I ordered a new Biesemeyer Commercial fence tonight!

Jason... JFTR, the saw did not look like that when I got it. I spent about 50-60 hours cleaning, sanding, and painting it. Right now it looks like a 5 year old $1500+ Unisaw. It runs like a dream, installed all new belts, put in a Forrest WWII blade... gave her a nice mobile base, and built a new dust collection door to hook up to my DC system.

Mike-

Nice job...the saw looks awesome. You'll love the new fence system, too. What size did you get? I actually just picked up my new X5 3hp Unisaw with all the trimmings. I'm still waiting on the mobile base, so I haven't assembled it yet (don't want to have to lift 550 lbs again!), but I can't wait. I also have to run a 220v circuit for it, so it might be a week or two...

BTW, check out the motor on this thing!

Enjoy the new saw and fence system! And awesome blade, too! Those things aren't cheap but they're worth it!

Jason
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IronHorse's Avatar IronHorse 12:42 PM 07-17-2005
Swamibob... If you are trying to match Brazilian Rosewood, I think you might want to look at using birch plywood rather than oak. I used birch for my stand and a rosewood stain that I bought at Woodcraft. Nice color, but you have to do all the right things when staining/finishing.

Jason... I got the 30" setup although the ruler runs out to 32" on the rail. I have to build a adequate side table this week because the Biesemeyer needs some support on the far end beyond the angle iron. The Bies is a rock-solid piece... dead on right out of the box.

Mike
Spiff69's Avatar Spiff69 12:56 PM 07-17-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swamibob View Post

I have a few more questions. I am going to make a pretty basic stand with a top, bottom. and 4 walls, and one shelf in each of the 3 compartments (similar to the one the spiff69 built) except I am going to put my center channel speaker, amp, and 1 component on the top shelf. This leaves me room for 6 more components inside of the entertainment stand. Here are the questions.

1) I don't have a table saw only a skill saw. I plan on buying 2 pieces of 4X8 oak plywood at lowes tomorrow and having them cut 1 piece in half (2 pieces 2'X8') and cut the other one to 4'X70" and then cut it in half so it will be 2 pieces of 2'X70". I will use the 2'X70" pieces for the top and bottom. I have a plasma tv mounted on the wall and it is 27" above the floor. With my 12" center channel speaker, I only want the top of the stand to be 13". I plan on holding the top on with wood glue and wood dowels. Do you think that 4 dowels into the top on each of the partitions and gluing between the partitions and the top is enough to hold the top and to move it around or do you think I should use wood blocks in the corners and screw them into the plywood? I do not want to use any wood plugs or putty to hide screw holes or have the stain not turn out good because of putty.

2)I am trying to match South American Rosewood (speakers-onyx rockets are made from this wood and look awesome!). Spiff69 said "I used minwax sedona red stain (2 coats) and then their fast drying polyurethane (3 coats). I was trying to achieve a rosewood kind of look." Why did he not use rosewood stain in the first place? Will it not make it look like south american rosewood? I thought I saw some stain specifically for rosewood. I did like the look of spiffs finish (it looked exceptional actually) but it looked a little too bright for rosewood.

3)What is the best glue to glue this together with? I have never really done a project like this so I want to learn from you guys who know the ins and outs of this.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks


Hi Guys,

I haven't dropped in on this thread in a while and got a pm from Swami about his post. Looks like I've got some catching up to do.

Swami - It was really more of an availability thing more than anything else. I didn't really find a proper rosewood stain - at least not one that I really liked. I've used minwax's products a lot and have always liked the results. I would definitely follow the advice of others and get a few different stains. Most of them come in the little 4 oz cans or whatever they are and are fairly inexpensive. I myself tested about 3 different types of stain and even at that I wish I had gone a little bit further in my testing and put the polyurethane on as well. I put one coat on and got a little nervous in that it wasn't nearly as rich as I wanted it to be. I then followed up with another coat and it was much more saturated. Also, different woods will accept stain differently. I went ahead and went with oak ply and oak 1x2 so that I could count on at least a little consistency. I was trying to match my paradigm rosewood speakers and got pretty darned close.

I had pretty good luck with getting Home Depot cutting panels to size. Making a circ saw guide is easy and it will definitely work, but it certainly made things easier to get it cut to size before I got it home. I don't have a garage or a proper workspace really and it helped. They have the big panel saws there and I just kept a close eye on it - kind of hard to get a crooked cut with a panel saw. I put a lauan back on my cabinet and I also faced the front with oak 1x2 to help with the racking thing - this way I didn't have to worry about additional support and the front trim masks my adjustable shelving hardware. I also rented a battery operated finish nailer from HD and it worked great in assembling everything together - the nails are so small that even if you do use a stainable putty to fill in the holes it's really not noticable. Of course, there are always several different ways to acheive similar results.

I tell you, though, I wouldn't trade my stand for anything. It is perfectly customized to my needs and really does outdo anything I could have bought at a reasonable price. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress - there is a wealth of information here from all these guys.
Kenlex's Avatar Kenlex 01:24 PM 07-17-2005
A few more comments on Swamibob's project...

I agree with IronHorse that birch rather than oak plywood will be best if you're trying to simulate rosewood. The graining of the oak will be all wrong.

Sounds like Spiff69 had really good luck with Home Depot cutting his panels, but I wouldn't expect that to be the rule. The place I buy my hardwood plywood has a huge table saw with extensions, and they sling 4x8 sheets around really quickly. Their blade is a really fine-toothed carbide blade, and they guarantee their cuts +/- 1/16 (or is it 1/32?). Also, at Home Depot or Lowe's etc. I'd worry that they'd be using a multi-purpose blade that might not treat the hardwood veneer so well (esp. cross-cutting oak).

I'd plan on doing the finish cutting using an extruded aluminum cutting guide that you can clamp onto the plywood. There are good inexpensive ones that come in two 4' 6" (or so) sections that connect to form a good straight 8 1/2'+ cutting guide. That, careful measurement, and a really good plywood blade in your circular saw will do much better than the lumber yard.

Heck, you might even need to clean up the factory edge a little, unless you can arrange that all the factory edges are at the back. Factory edges can get a little beat up sometimes.
IronHorse's Avatar IronHorse 04:03 PM 07-17-2005
ll you woodworking wannabe's here's a chance to get in up to your knees;

Well it's finally time to part ways with my Craftsman Contractor's Saw. I figured I'd post it here in the AVS Forum before going to eBay even though many folks here are past this stage. This is a great starter saw for anyone looking to not spend a fortune and yet be able to fill all your basic TS needs. This is a nice, heavy, well built saw. The table top and wing are cast iron (no rust) as are most of the guts. The fence is original, and decent enough. To entice someone to jump on this (maybe), I'm including some extras. You buy the saw, you're also getting a HD locking mobile base, a shop-built dust draw (handy), a shop-built full-width roller outfeed (metal framed), the miter gauge, and a nice assortment of blades to include; a 60-tooth 10" Consoweld carbide blade, a 9" Craftsman veneer blade, a 10" Master Craftsman Combination Blade, and a 6" Master Craftsman Dado Set. I have the original insert, plus a zero clearance, and dado throat insert. I'll also include an old Vermont American dovetail tool, in the box complete with instructions. It's used, scuffed, but hey... you might have some fun with it. The motor is a 1HP that can be wired for 110v/220v.

The bundle price for anyone here in the AVS or WoodNet forums is $175.00 picked up here in Longmeadow, MA (just outside of Springfield). While the saw and blades are used, they are by no means abused, and if you had to buy a new contractors saw of this quality today, you'd be spending between $500.00 and $800.00, not to mention maybe $300 more for the blades, mobile base, and other stuff. And no... I don't think I can pack this up and ship it. Here are a few pix:
LL
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Swamibob's Avatar Swamibob 04:34 PM 07-17-2005
Ok, I started the project today. HD did a decent job and although I didn't measure it, they are the same length so i'm sure it's close.

I have seen the brazilian rosewood and it looks more of a brownish color than my speakers do. It says it is South American Rosewood and they are more of a redish color. Since I can't post a direct link to the site, the company is av123 and the speakers I have are the RS1000 if any of you care to take a look at what the finish on the speakers look like.
I thought the sedona red 222 looked closer than the brazilian rosewood stain so I went with it as spiff69 did. I have stained a test piece and I think it is looking pretty close. I will take it home with me tonight and do a comparison. I put 2 coats on one half and 3 coats of stain on the other. They did not have oak (I went this morning before all the your posts so I didn't know the birch was a good match so I chose some plywood made from sandy wood. It was called sandyply. It was pre sanded 3 times and it had a pretty nice finish on it. I gave it a light sanding on a test piece and stained it. It does seem pretty soft so I used the wood conditioner before staining and it looks pretty even. Will it look darker once I put the polyurathain on it?

I have decided to forgo the dowel idea and use 3/4 in wood blocks 24" long in the corners of the top to all of the partitions and the sides as well as glueing the top down with liquid nails heavy duty. I will drill these wood blocks and use 1 1/4" screws from the inside where they will not be seen. I am putting 2" molding around the front (similar to the way spiff69 did). Once again, do you think the wood blocks the whole width of the partitions and sides will be strong enough? I will you 5 screws to the top and 5 to the side and partitions on each side.

Swami
JasonColeman's Avatar JasonColeman 06:59 PM 07-17-2005
As far as that method of attaching the top, I'd only recommend gluing-&-screwing when using plywood (as you're doing) because it expands and contracts much less than hardwoods do. You probably don't even need any Liquid Nails either...decent wood screws should do the trick.

As far as the finish goes, it's obviously best to test it out on scrap pieces of material. The polyurethane won't really darken up the wood like other finishes will (particularly oils).

Jason
Swamibob's Avatar Swamibob 07:05 PM 07-17-2005
Here is a picture I took after I got home. Do you guys think more stain of the same sedona red 222 or another color to make it more alike? I have never tried to color match stain before. Here is the link. (I hope I did it right!) http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/15620

Thanks
Artwood's Avatar Artwood 07:15 PM 07-17-2005
Are the people who decide the prices for stands for the major Video Display manufacturers the same people who used to be managers of movie theaters and set the prices on candy bars and popcorn?
IronHorse's Avatar IronHorse 07:24 PM 07-17-2005
You might try leaving it on a little longer before burnishing, and not really knowing what the grain of your "sandywood" is like, I'd suggest you might want to experiment with a second stain (darker) trying to fake the grain. Try dry-brushing or dry-wiping over the more reddish stain. Then once yo get what you like, you can seal it with urethane or even shellac followed by urethane.
Swamibob's Avatar Swamibob 07:29 PM 07-17-2005
What darker color stain would you suggest? I am taking back the satin finish polyurathane to HD tomorrow anyway. I meant to get gloss so I could pick up the darker then. Also that section in the picture has 3 coats of seonda red stain already and the last one I let soak in for 15 mins. Thanks for all the help BTW.

Rob
IronHorse's Avatar IronHorse 05:50 AM 07-18-2005
Rob...

Rosewood has some very distinctive grain colors, so I suggest that whatever stain product you are using (brand-wise) should offer something to match the darker shades. Some furniture finishers call this "glazing" and basically... you have sealed in the lighter color and are spotting on the darker, but not giving it a chance to pennetrate. You can dry prush it on or scrunch up a rag or newspaper and then carefully drag it over the darker stain to create the highs and lows (color values). Don't overwork it and do not go in any direction other than the grain of the wood.

Cut a few sample pieces and experiment before finishing the real cabinet. And don't forget... you don't need to coat the entire surface with the darker color. A more dramatic effect can be had if you create or spot the false grain.

Mike
Spiff69's Avatar Spiff69 07:27 AM 07-18-2005
Yeah, I would agree with Ironhorse - the color is getting close, but the grain is completely different. Experiment with what he suggests or you'll have to try a different type of wood. The nicer plywoods never seem to have as much grain as the hardwood itself, so I'm not sure how close you'll get without some experimentation.
JasonColeman's Avatar JasonColeman 07:37 AM 07-18-2005
Without doing some pretty fancy staining and finishing techniques, you'll have a hard time matching the rosewood without actually using rosewood plywood (or solid rosewood). Short of using the real thing, you're probably better off using a plywood that has little to no grain (sandywood?) and applying a faux grain finish than using something like oak which already has a pronounced grain (that most likely won't match your speakers). I'm not sure how large your stand is going to be, but it might be worthwhile to just bite the bullet and buy either the rosewood ply or solid rosewood. I found rosewood plywood here: http://www.publiclumber.com/14ros4x8g1s.html (not a bad price, either) and solid rosewood is available in quantity on ebay...simply search rosewood lumber. While the solids are pricey, you can always have them resawn into 3 or 4 thinner boards and use them as laminate.

In the end, you'll still save yourself a ton of money, so why not save yourself some time, too?

Jason
Swamibob's Avatar Swamibob 07:13 PM 07-18-2005
IronHorse,
Are you saying that I should put a coat of polyurthane to seal in the red color before putting the darker stain on or just use the base coat of red that is already on there and use the method you described above? You said I don't have to put it everywhere so do you mean just do some dark streaks down it with the fairly dry rag from the dark stain and then use the newspaper to drag through it to leave streaks of dark stain to simulate the rosewood grain? Sorry for all the questions but I cannot find a lot of how to sites to explain this throughly. Thanks again,

Rob
JasonColeman's Avatar JasonColeman 08:38 PM 07-18-2005
Rob-

If you put polyurethane on what you've already got, that's it. The poly is the top coat and is inpenetrable...any additional finishing needs to be done prior to the poly.

Jason
Swamibob's Avatar Swamibob 05:16 AM 07-19-2005
Has anyone tried putting more wood conditoner on top of a base coat of stain in streaks similar to wood grain and then streak the darker stain on to it? Do you think this would help the dark stain be more pronounced or would it mess up the stain that is already on there? Just curious because rosewood has very dark black lines of grain when it is stained. Thanks

Jason,
thanks for the input.. I know poly usually goes last but I read in another forum about putting some other coat on to help seal the base coat in and then streak the dark stain. I thought IronHorse might have been telling me the same thing.

Rob
IronHorse's Avatar IronHorse 05:59 AM 07-19-2005
Rob...

Usually... stain is a pretty decent sealer once it dries. Not knowing what the consistentcy of the wood is right now, plus not knowing whether you're using an oil or water based stain... I'm shooting in the dark. But no... do not put the urethane on yet. You could "seal" with a thinned down coat of clear waxless shellac and then try the darker stain in streaks. This is why I suggested doing it on a few sample pieces before messing with the actual cabinet.

If you want to try veneer... you can google rosewood and get sources like this:

http://www.certainlywood.com/woodmenu.htm#exotic

http://www.woodworkerssource.net/Mer...ry_Code=veneer

Mike
Musty Hustla's Avatar Musty Hustla 09:58 AM 07-19-2005
my 55in sony is sitting on a collection cinderblocks and plywood. its gangsta
JasonColeman's Avatar JasonColeman 11:12 AM 07-19-2005
Now that's do-it-yourself...my wife would have me whacked...

Jason
IronHorse's Avatar IronHorse 12:46 PM 07-19-2005
Hey now... wait a minute. If you go back to the beginning of this thread, you might even see my 62 MITs DLP sitting on a couple of stolen milk crates and a piece of formica countertop! Now _THAT'S_ Gangsta baby!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Musty Hustla View Post

my 55in sony is sitting on a collection cinderblocks and plywood. its gangsta


Brucer's Avatar Brucer 09:26 PM 07-19-2005
Did someone mention matching Onix Rocket Rosewood?

I have a little experience with that.

About the best you can expect is to compliment the color only, you will not achieve the contrasting grain without the Real McCoy, and will probably end up with a mess attempting to do so via faux grain, etc..
LL
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