Have you seen the Rainbow? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 42 Old 01-06-2005, 05:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Who has seen the dreaded rainbow phenomenon on DLP sets?

I've tried on diffrent occations, and have yet to spot it.

Have you seen it? yea or nea?
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post #2 of 42 Old 01-06-2005, 06:28 AM
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Well, I don't think it was rainbows but I did see some strange effect while watching the sports illustrated swimsuit model thing last night. On some shots I would see what looked like rapid pixelization. It was kind of like a sparkly effect, and it was more pronounced when the scene went from normal to very bright back to normal, like when a flashbulb would go off or something. It was very distracting to say the least, as I was fully concentrating on the half naked hot chicks prancing around the beach. I have never seen this effect before so I'm not really sure what it was.
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post #3 of 42 Old 01-06-2005, 06:45 AM
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I notice it when there is white moving rapidly across a dark screen. Such as credit scrolls.

Also, DLP just doesn't seem to be able to keep up with rapid movement as well as LCD for me. I have no idea if it can even be quantified.

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post #4 of 42 Old 01-06-2005, 06:47 AM
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I voted never seen it, even though I think I've seen it one time in nearly 30 days of viewing, it was when the screen had gone to total black on a scene change and I was typing on my laptop.
I looked up from my laptop to the tv and back down to my laptop and saw what looked like a burst of color, but it was so quick it didn't register that I had scene the rainbow effect at first. I have actually tried to see it and have never been able to make myself. No one else has mentioned any problems with the TV.
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post #5 of 42 Old 01-06-2005, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shape
Also, DLP just doesn't seem to be able to keep up with rapid movement as well as LCD for me. I have no idea if it can even be quantified. [/b]
Are you sure you didn't say this backwards? I thought it was the other way around...
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post #6 of 42 Old 01-06-2005, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by massive
Are you sure you didn't say this backwards? I thought it was the other way around...
Definitely not.

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post #7 of 42 Old 01-06-2005, 01:42 PM
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I have never seen one on my Samsung HLP5063, purchased in August. Neither have my 3 family members or any of the 20-30 visitors/friends that have been to the house and watched the tv.
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post #8 of 42 Old 01-06-2005, 02:51 PM
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Neither I nor anyone who has come to my house and watched TV with me, has ever seen the dreaded rainbow effect on my 50" RCA DLP. Nevertheless, the complaints registered in this forum by many knowledgeable posters about the problem convince me that for those who are consistently bothered by it, it's a deal breaker.
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post #9 of 42 Old 01-06-2005, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by massive
Are you sure you didn't say this backwards? I thought it was the other way around...
LCDs keep up with movement perfectly fine. If there's any pixelation, it's from the source (i.e. too fast for the *camera* to catch...maybe the camera should change its aperture size). I've watched the BCS and even my g/f can clearly follow the football. Without her glasses. I think pixelation is a sad stereotype of LCDs...similar to how many stereotype DLPs' rainbow effect even though the rainbow effect affects just a minority of the consumers.

There's too much blood in my alcohol system...
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post #10 of 42 Old 01-06-2005, 03:43 PM
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I see them quite easily on all DLP sets on display in stores. For example, I was in Circuit City last week and looked at each DLP set for a short time and saw rainbows on each set.

I ended up getting a Hitachi CRT RPTV and I see something similar to rainbows on it (not technically rainbows, but something just like it), but its not nearly as bad as it is with DLPs.
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post #11 of 42 Old 01-06-2005, 03:49 PM
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I have never "really" seen them while watching the TV's. When trying to do tricks with my eyes to see if I could see them, I can very occasionally see a split-second rainbow like effect when I look at the TV, and then avert my eyes from the TV quickly.

I have never seen one on HD, HD2+, or HD3 when actually watching the TV as I'd watch any other TV, nor have my wife or any of my kids (I have brought them to the store to make sure they would not see it).
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post #12 of 42 Old 01-06-2005, 05:42 PM
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I see rainbows quite frequently. First saw them with an hln467w which I returned. Now own a hlp4674w and the rainbows are there too. I have attempted to turn down the contrast setting which seems to help in dark scenes with a bright light or edge. I wish I didn't see them but for most movies it's not a big deal. Burn in, black levels and weight were issues for me so it was a DLP set.
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post #13 of 42 Old 01-06-2005, 07:15 PM
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I bought my Sammy DLP 17 months ago and have never seen a rainbow (nor has anyone in my family).
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post #14 of 42 Old 01-06-2005, 07:42 PM
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captenblack, I see them on my crt as well (along with seeing them on DLP), sometimes it is very annoying.
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post #15 of 42 Old 01-06-2005, 08:05 PM
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As a person who has always seen every defect in a picture, due to having corrected vision of 20/12 and a fine eye for detail, I have been blessed in that I don't see them at all. I see SD TV scan lines from 15-20' away. I see mis-alignments when no one else in the room sees them. I see geometric distortion when no one else sees it. But to date and having viewed images from well over 25 different DLP TVs and projectors, including 3 different Samsung x63 sets, I still haven't seen a rainbow.
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post #16 of 42 Old 01-06-2005, 08:20 PM
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I can see it when I stand too close (close enough to see screen door on LCD) and if the TV is any decent size (50" or above). I figure it's because I'm standing so close that my eye is constantly moving over the image to perceive the corners. But if I back up to reasonable viewing distance, it's not noticeable.

I've never seen anyone who's actually seen it just staring at the screen from standard viewing distance though.
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post #17 of 42 Old 01-06-2005, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shwilmo
I've never seen anyone who's actually seen it just staring at the screen from standard viewing distance though.
I saw three rainbows within a minute of each other auditioning Pirates of the Carribean on the Mits 52725 (Anderson's TV). This occurred about 10-15 minutes into the audition, just watching the movie. No violent head movements, no weird neck contortions, just straight ahead viewing from about 11' away.

At that point, I would see a rainbow at least once every 5 minutes of POTC, which we watched about an hour of. Neither my wife nor our daughter saw the rainbows.

On a separate audition of the Samsung 5085 (Magnolia), I lost count but saw at least 6 rainbows within a 45 minute audition of Spiderman. Again, neither my wife nor our daughter saw the rainbows.

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post #18 of 42 Old 01-17-2005, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Does the mits 52725 have the HD2+ chip? Cuz it'll make it more difficult to see teh rainbows.

Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Mohrmann
I saw three rainbows within a minute of each other auditioning Pirates of the Carribean on the Mits 52725 (Anderson's TV). This occurred about 10-15 minutes into the audition, just watching the movie. No violent head movements, no weird neck contortions, just straight ahead viewing from about 11' away.

At that point, I would see a rainbow at least once every 5 minutes of POTC, which we watched about an hour of. Neither my wife nor our daughter saw the rainbows.

On a separate audition of the Samsung 5085 (Magnolia), I lost count but saw at least 6 rainbows within a 45 minute audition of Spiderman. Again, neither my wife nor our daughter saw the rainbows.

Michael
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post #19 of 42 Old 01-17-2005, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by massive
Does the mits 52725 have the HD2+ chip? Cuz it'll make it more difficult to see teh rainbows.
Yes it does, but that didn't prevent me from seeing the rainbows. But I am not sure that the HD2+ is the reason. The Mits 52725, Samsung 5085 and the Panasonic PT-50DL54 DLPs all have the HD2+ chip, and I see rainbows on all three, but to varying degrees.

I see a lot of rainbows on the Samsung, a moderate number on the Mits, and an infrequent number on the Panasonic. It was so few on the Panasonic that we might have gone with it were it not for some other issues.

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post #20 of 42 Old 01-18-2005, 07:27 AM
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Rainbows are easily seen on samsungs in retail settings, other brands lessso but still noticeable. I cant deal with rainbows!! they totally bug me I cannot enjoy program content because of them. Will wait on 1080P 3 chip.
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post #21 of 42 Old 01-18-2005, 08:29 AM
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I posted in another thread about not knowing about rainbows. I have a RCA and haven't seen them. I thought I saw them on another DLP in the store, but now I don't think I did. DLP-Dave and Tom_Bombadil I'm with you I can see a shimmer on my RCA that is definitely not present on any other DLP, but the two lower end RCA's. I don't see it now as much as I did when I first got it, but man it make the sun reflecting off of lakes look very real. I can see three little dots on the screen the are missing half of the pixel, but no-one else can. I can see the small yet still present screen door effect. But no rainbows. No-one else has seen them either, but at the same time they do not see the other effects or issues that I see. Does anyone have a pic of a rainbow effect? I'd like to see it.

Also does anyone have any issues seeing the picture in those 3D pictures that look like a weird color pattern that was popular about 10 years ago, because it takes me a whole second to see them, but my wife can never see it. I was just wondering. Maybe there is a relation to how your eyes work compared to others. HistoneMaster even stated seeing them on a RPCRT. Hmmmm
Also there are three theaters in my area that use DLP projection for the new digital movie video content, I have seen three movies in this format and have never seen a rainbow, so maybe it is just something with certain peoples eyes that causes them to see them.
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post #22 of 42 Old 01-18-2005, 09:17 AM
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I find all of this very interesting. The current poll results have over 20% seeing them all the time, and another 30% who see them sometimes.

I've been asking salesreps in stores if customers see them on the floor, or return sets because of rainbows after purchase. I think I've spoken to 8 different salesreps in 6 different stores. Their responses are always the same, that almost no one sees them and there are almost no returns because of them. They say the only people who ever mention them are people who read on-line HT forums.

I'm not saying that the effect is imagined, I know it is very real for some people. But it is interesting to compare the experiences expressed in this and other other forums vs the "normal" customer experience. Clearly there is a learned behavior/technique factor at work. Apparently there is a small subset of people who see them right away and are annoyed by them. Then there is a much larger set of people who once learning about them and how to spot them, begin to see them.

My fear is that if I purchased a DLP, that since I know they are there, that in my home I would eventually learn how to spot them and then not be able to live with it. This even though I've watched DLP TVs and projectors for many hours and never spotted one yet. Just like when one finds any flaw in their TV, they can never not see it again, although some are easier to live with than others.
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post #23 of 42 Old 01-18-2005, 09:58 AM
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The rep at the Ultimate Electronics claimed that less than 1% of people can see rainbows. However, he also said some other things that are demonstrably untrue, so take it with a grain of salt.

Michael Mohrmann, your statement seems to be a verification that the 8 segment color wheel does indeed seem to cut down the rainbows a lot. I am pretty sure that only the Panny has the 8-segment wheel. Yet another reason to consider the Panny the top of the line in DLP's right now. I suppose it could be some other reason, but the 8 segment wheel seems to be the most likely explanation.

To be honest, I've never seen rainbows (except once or twice when I do eyeball gymnastics to try to figure out what rainbows might be) nor have I seen the screen door effect on LCD's (unless I get up really close), but the LCD picture seems to be a bit washed out to me, which is why I prefer DLP.
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post #24 of 42 Old 01-18-2005, 10:10 AM
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reddragon72, you will not see RBE at a theater. This is due to the fact that theaters use a three chip design. You might want to go to See How It Works - Launch our demo (bottom left) toward the end of the demo they talk about theater projectors and the three chip design.
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post #25 of 42 Old 01-18-2005, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
I'm not saying that the effect is imagined, I know it is very real for some people. But it is interesting to compare the experiences expressed in this and other other forums vs the "normal" customer experience. Clearly there is a learned behavior/technique factor at work. Apparently there is a small subset of people who see them right away and are annoyed by them.
The part about the "learned behavior/technique" I disagree with. Sure, there are some people who perform the various eye/neck gymnastics in an effort to see them, but for someone like myself, all it takes is straight ahead viewing. Now, maybe the fact that I can see rainbows may be attributed to some natural eye blinking or such that I can't control, I really don't know.

Michael
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post #26 of 42 Old 01-18-2005, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DLP-Dave
The rep at the Ultimate Electronics claimed that less than 1% of people can see rainbows. However, he also said some other things that are demonstrably untrue, so take it with a grain of salt.
The skeptic in me says that the retailers are not going to admit the true number of DLP returns based on seeing rainbows. When we were deciding between a Sony LCD and a Mits DLP, I mentioned to the dealer (Anderson's TV) that I had seen rainbows on their Mits (3 times in a minute in one particular sitting), and they urged me to bypass the Mits (despite being a large Mits dealer in our area). They then went on to say that they had 3 Mits DLPs returned because of rainbows the prior week. I guess they didn't want me to be #4.

Quote:
Originally posted by DLP-Dave
Michael Mohrmann, your statement seems to be a verification that the 8 segment color wheel does indeed seem to cut down the rainbows a lot. I am pretty sure that only the Panny has the 8-segment wheel. Yet another reason to consider the Panny the top of the line in DLP's right now. I suppose it could be some other reason, but the 8 segment wheel seems to be the most likely explanation.
It could be the 8 segment color wheel, but it might be other issues. I find that the more contrast the DLP TV has, the greater chance I have of seeing the rainbows. For me, the Samsung 5085 has more contrast than the Mits 52725 which has more contrast than the Panasonic PT50.

Michael
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post #27 of 42 Old 01-18-2005, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
I find that the more contrast the DLP TV has, the greater chance I have of seeing the rainbows. For me, the Samsung 5085 has more contrast than the Mits 52725 which has more contrast than the Panasonic PT50.

Michael [/b]
I haven't noticed that, but I suppose it is possible. They all seem to have about the same contrast to me, depending on how the sets are calibrated at that particular store at that particular time. If anything, the Mitsubishi seems to have a little more contrast in general, but I think that is the effect of the anti-glare screen.

One time I looked at the Panny, its contrast ratio was way down for some reason, but all the other times I have seen it, it had a very good contrast appearance.
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post #28 of 42 Old 01-18-2005, 11:32 AM
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captenblack, and HistoneMaster,
What you are seeing on your CRT RPTV is probably a convergence issue. That can be fixed. Most newer CRT RPTVs have a utility in the menu to do this. If not, you can have a repairman come out to re-converge them.

I am one of those lucky enough to never see rainbows. I tried once to see them, but failed. I never tried again, with the thought that you shouldn't fix something that is not broken.

I have read many reviews of people who went to CES and were unable to see rainbows in the new sets. I can't wait to see them myself.
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post #29 of 42 Old 01-18-2005, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil

I've been asking salesreps in stores if customers see them on the floor, or return sets because of rainbows after purchase. I think I've spoken to 8 different salesreps in 6 different stores. Their responses are always the same, that almost no one sees them and there are almost no returns because of them. They say the only people who ever mention them are people who read on-line HT forums.
While i agree with this, being that i dont see rainbows either, i can't imagine the sales guy saying "oh yeah, a lot of people see rainbows on these sets".
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post #30 of 42 Old 01-18-2005, 01:05 PM
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That's a fair comment, but most of them have seemed to give honest answers. In the same conversations, nearly all of them were willing to admit, or even bring up, negative aspects of different types of sets.

For the most part, I didn't ask them the question unless they seemed knowledgable. For example at two CC's, I waved off a few salesreps, then struck up conversations with very technically astute ones. Heck, one even admitted that he saw rainbows on some DLPs and had "smudges" on his home Samsung DLP. So while I can't verify the accuracy of their answers, I do have some confidence in the overall response being that they aren't getting many DLPs back because of the rainbow issue.
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