Samsung 2005 DLP HDTV Discussion --- HLRxxxxW Models - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 6622 Old 01-12-2005, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Everyone should remember these 1080p tabletop HDTV's are six months from launch --- six months before the HLPxx74W's launched we were completely convinced that they would be using 7 segment wheels. I guess I am assuming that they are rev'ing the internals between the 88 and 68/78 series when I talk about six months.

> Bill
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post #182 of 6622 Old 01-12-2005, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is our current list of open issues --- notice I've added question #9 on lip sync.

===================================

1. What is the PQ on the new 1080p models?

2. What TI DLP chips are used in the new models? TI and Samsung are not discussing chips, simply referring to 1080p chips and 720p chips. One press release from Optoma talked about a HD4 (720p) chip and therefore it is really tough to understand what is going on with these chips. When TI introduced the xHD3 (1080p) they claimed a 5000:1 contrast ratio, so it would seem they have a new chip since this has risen to 10000:1 now.

3. What are the DEPTH measurements, dimensions, and weight on the new models by model number? Even a couple of reference points would allow us to see the trend.

4. Will a IEEE1394 input/output be offered on the 67 or 87 series units?

5. What is the contrast ratio spec's for the HLR5087W 720p pedestal model? If they had one on display, did anyone notice if the pixel pattern was HD2+ or newer HD4 pattern?

6. What is the capability of the 68/88 series 1080p sets to handle computer/video gaming? Specifically, what is lag?

7. What computer resolutions are supported on the 68, 78, and 88 series sets (1920x1080?)? How would this work through the HDMI connection (via DVI - HDMI cable?) Specifically, does it support 1920x1080. Since we THINK that we have confirmed that the 68, 78, and 88 will have VGA/PC input, what resolutions will be supported via this input?

8. Is there a center channel speaker shelf on the 67, 68, or 78 series cabinets? There has been a general feeling in the discussions of this topic that the 67, 68, and 78 series do not have a center channel shelf.

9. Given the increased video processing required in the 1080p units (68, 78, 88 Series), what steps has Samsung taken to insure that we don't see lip sync issues? Did anyone ask specifically about this concern?

10. TOP PRIORITY QUESTION: Can anyone confirm that the 78 series 50" and 70" models are real production models?

> Bill
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post #183 of 6622 Old 01-12-2005, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Administrator ... I don't know if you still have the capability to send Steve P. at Samsung an email. But, if you do, I think he may be the only person that can resolve the confusion about the 50", 68" and 70" HLRxx78W's. While we may not want to bury him with all of our questions, understanding the status of these three HDTV's will be important for many people. I would like to encourage him to build the 50". Any help would be appreciated.

> Bill
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post #184 of 6622 Old 01-12-2005, 06:52 PM
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My almost perfect TV may be may finally be a reality!! One question I havent seen anything about is off-axis viewing. Is there any improvement anyone noticed?

As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

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post #185 of 6622 Old 01-12-2005, 07:03 PM
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2. What TI DLP chips are used in the new models?

Perhaps a hint to answer Q2 may come from this snippet in:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/ces_2005.htm


"Texas Instruments has a newly upgraded DLP chip, the Dark Chip 3 (DC3). Several new models were announced at CES that use the 1280x720 resolution DC3: "

Could this be what is appearing in the Rear Projection Sets?
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post #186 of 6622 Old 01-12-2005, 07:36 PM
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a search on DC3 shows up some links:

Looks like the DC3 is a new variant of the HD2+ as the following articles indicate, and maybe is the chip in the new 720p models?. Following extracts are re DLP projectors so the absolute contrast figures won't apply.
http://www.gcaudio.com/products/reviews/infosim2.html

0.8" 720p DarkChip3 by Texas Instruments
The HT300 E-LINK projector is the first on the market to feature the new 0.8" 720p DarkChip3 by Texas Instruments (HD2+ DC3). The DarkChip3 incorporates smaller mirror hinges, reduced gaps between mirrors, a flatter, more reflective surface and a new light absorbent coating for unmatched contrast and color uniformity. Also the DarkChip3 is a Fast Track Pixel (FTP) chip that allows an approx. 50% reduction of the dithering effect for an exceptionally natural, crystal clear image.

from:
http://www.projectiondesign.com/Default.asp?CatID=1281

The Action! model one mk III is one of the first projectors to utilise the new, enhanced HD2+ DC3 (DarkChip3) DLP technology from Texas Instruments®. DC3 greatly enhances contrast with up to 25% over the standard HD2+ DC2, reaching an incredible 4000:1. This is made possible by introducing two new teqnologies; reduced vias and smaller gaps between the pixels. Deeper blacks, better black colour point, and greatly improved perceived black.
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post #187 of 6622 Old 01-12-2005, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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MBPilot ... here is summary of what we think we know about the DLP chips from all of the info gathered so far. Our problem is that both TI and Samsung have decided not to discuss the DLP chips in these units. I posted the text below a little while back ... I'm still trying to sort out the issue before updating the spec's at the top of the thread.

===========

We have an open issue about what DLP chips are in these new models. It seems that TI (Texas Instruments) and the HDTV vendors have gotten together and decided not to talk about chips, but rather talk about 720p chips and 1080p chips. I can understand this desire on their part. With models coming out at different times during the year, everyone can't have the latest chip and a lot of other things go into the design of these HDTV's (firmware, optics, electronics, screens, etc.) beyond the chips. Part of me says that we should just respect their wishes. But, then part of me says wait, for most of us these are expensive purchases. We have a right to be informed about what we are buying. Could you imagine if Intel decided we are just going to refer to CPU's by their type, Pentium 4's for example.

We have gathered a lot of spec's at CES 2005 and those spec's are clearly documented in the posters, product display cards, and press releases that we have been accumulating. I think some clear patterns have emerged.

It seems to me that Samsung and TI cooperate closely on the introduction of HDTV's and DLP chips. This is to be expected (I thought I saw a press release saying Samsung had 69% or the DLP market). Samsung has stated they are using, or will be using TI's latest chips. So here is my take by model line.

Series 68, 78 - TI xHD4. I don't know if this is the designation they are using internally, but this is the next 1080p chip after the xHD3 shown initially at CES 2004. When the 68 / 78 product arrives it will be mid 2005. Clearly at least one model year removed from the 2004 chip we saw last year. The xHD3 had a contrast ratio of 5000:1, these new chips are claiming 10,000:1. In addition, there was a Zeiss Optics pdf document that talked about compability with the xHD4 chip.

Series 88 - TI xHD3. This 1080p pedestal HDTV was slated for introduction last November with xHD3. It's lower 5000:1 contrast ratio, 2004 develop time table, and early introduction (FEB 2005) led me to believe that it is based on the xHD3.

Series 67 - TI HD4. A couple of vendors, Sharp and Optoma, created product display cards stating that they are using the HD4. So we know this is the latest 720p chip. In addition, Samsung is claiming a 2000:1 contrast ratio just the same as in the Sharp HD4 720p HDTV. Optoma claimed 2500:1.

Series 87 - TI HD2+ or HD4. We do not have a single picture, product display card, press release spec or really anything on this HDTV. My guess is that they just left the HD2+ chip in the unit (ie used current HLP5085W as base).

So I have a small dilemma, should we just go along with TI's wishes and call these chips 720p and 1080p chips on our spec page or should attempt to list actual chips. If we decide to list actual chips should we just put the data above in or should we list all of the possible options.

The general concensus so far is to post our best guesses ... with a clear explanation that they have not been confirmed as yet.

> Bill
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post #188 of 6622 Old 01-12-2005, 09:04 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by MBPilot
a search on DC3 shows up some links:

Looks like the DC3 is a new variant of the HD2+ as the following articles indicate, and maybe is the chip in the new 720p models?. Following extracts are re DLP projectors so the absolute contrast figures won't apply.
http://www.gcaudio.com/products/reviews/infosim2.html

0.8" 720p DarkChip3 by Texas Instruments
The HT300 E-LINK projector is the first on the market to feature the new 0.8" 720p DarkChip3 by Texas Instruments (HD2+ DC3). The DarkChip3 incorporates smaller mirror hinges, reduced gaps between mirrors, a flatter, more reflective surface and a new light absorbent coating for unmatched contrast and color uniformity. Also the DarkChip3 is a Fast Track Pixel (FTP) chip that allows an approx. 50% reduction of the dithering effect for an exceptionally natural, crystal clear image.

from:
http://www.projectiondesign.com/Default.asp?CatID=1281

The Action! model one mk III is one of the first projectors to utilise the new, enhanced HD2+ DC3 (DarkChip3) DLP technology from Texas Instruments®. DC3 greatly enhances contrast with up to 25% over the standard HD2+ DC2, reaching an incredible 4000:1. This is made possible by introducing two new teqnologies; reduced vias and smaller gaps between the pixels. Deeper blacks, better black colour point, and greatly improved perceived black.

I wonder if samsung will do an upgrade program for older model DLP boards like before for current HLP owners??

BigJJL
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post #189 of 6622 Old 01-12-2005, 09:51 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by BigJJL
I wonder if samsung will do an upgrade program for older model DLP boards like before for current HLP owners??

Samsung provided new digital boards to owners of the original HLM sets and the earliest HLN sets that didn't have discrete commands for each input and ON/OFF.

They charged $200 for labor.

That's the only upgrade that I know about and, as far as I know, it was only for AVS members.

The only path to an upgrade that I'm aware of would be buying a newer model or having a "lucky" breakdown.
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post #190 of 6622 Old 01-13-2005, 12:07 AM - Thread Starter
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I have closed the open issue on the center channel shelf. None of the 2005 models have a center channel shelf. Below is the text that I have added to the top of the thread.

==========================

Each product line spec now includes this bullet:

> NO Center Channel Shelf

==========================

In addition, this text has been added to the questions area:

11. Is there a center channel speaker shelf on the 67, 68, or 78 series cabinets? There has been a general feeling in the discussions of this topic that the 67, 68, and 78 series do not have a center channel shelf.

None of the 2005 models have a center channel speaker shelf.

Comment By Tetsujinwave (CES Attendee):
There isn't enough room for a center channel on top of the 68 and 78 sets, from what I saw in the Samsung area. The back tapers from the bottom to the top--there really isn't a lot of room there for anything, much less a center channel speaker.

> Bill
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post #191 of 6622 Old 01-13-2005, 12:33 AM - Thread Starter
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I updated the DLP chip information. I also included the comments below in the questions area.

=========================

Example of spec update:

> DLP Chip: per Samsung, Latest 1080p (xHD4 --- neither Samsung nor TI are discussing chips, this is our best guess given available information)

==========================

Text added:

12. What TI DLP chips are used in the new models?

Comments By UCSB (AVS Member):
We have an open issue about what DLP chips are in these new models. It seems that TI (Texas Instruments) and the HDTV vendors have gotten together and decided not to talk about chips, but rather talk about 720p chips and 1080p chips. I can understand this desire on their part. With models coming out at different times during the year, everyone can't have the latest chip and a lot of other things go into the design of these HDTV's (firmware, optics, electronics, screens, etc.) beyond the chips. Part of me says that we should just respect their wishes. But, then part of me says wait, for most of us these are expensive purchases. We have a right to be informed about what we are buying. Could you imagine if Intel decided we are just going to refer to CPU's by their type, Pentium 4's for example.

We have gathered a lot of spec's at CES 2005 and those spec's are clearly documented in the posters, product display cards, and press releases that we have been accumulating. I think some clear patterns have emerged.

It seems to me that Samsung and TI cooperate closely on the introduction of HDTV's and DLP chips. This is to be expected (I thought I saw a press release saying Samsung had 69% or the DLP market). Samsung has stated they are using, or will be using TI's latest chips. So here is my take by model line.

Series 68, 78 - TI xHD4. I don't know if this is the designation they are using internally, but this is the next 1080p chip after the xHD3 shown initially at CES 2004. When the 68 / 78 product arrives it will be mid 2005. Clearly at least one model year removed from the 2004 chip we saw last year. The xHD3 had a contrast ratio of 5000:1, these new chips are claiming 10,000:1. In addition, there was a Zeiss Optics pdf document that talked about compability with the xHD4 chip.

Series 88 - TI xHD3. This 1080p pedestal HDTV was slated for introduction last November with xHD3. It's lower 5000:1 contrast ratio, 2004 develop time table, and early introduction (FEB 2005) led me to believe that it is based on the xHD3.

Series 67 - TI HD4. A couple of vendors, Sharp and Optoma, created product display cards stating that they are using the HD4. So we know this is the latest 720p chip. In addition, Samsung is claiming a 2000:1 contrast ratio just the same as in the Sharp HD4 720p HDTV. Optoma claimed 2500:1.

Series 87 - TI HD2+ or HD4. We do not have a single picture, product display card, press release spec or really anything on this HDTV. My guess is that they just left the HD2+ chip in the unit (ie used current HLP5085W as base).

> Bill
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post #192 of 6622 Old 01-13-2005, 12:36 AM - Thread Starter
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After the changes above, here are our remaining open items:

=====================

1. What is the PQ on the new 1080p models?

2. What TI DLP chips are used in the new models?

3. What are the DEPTH measurements, dimensions, and weight on the new models by model number? Even a couple of reference points would allow us to see the trend.

4. Will a IEEE1394 input/output be offered on the 67 or 87 series units?

5. What is the contrast ratio spec's for the HLR5087W 720p pedestal model? If they had one on display, did anyone notice if the pixel pattern was HD2+ or newer HD4 pattern?

6. What is the capability of the 68/88 series 1080p sets to handle computer/video gaming? Specifically, what is lag?

7. What computer resolutions are supported on the 68, 78, and 88 series sets (1920x1080?)? How would this work through the HDMI connection (via DVI - HDMI cable?) Specifically, does it support 1920x1080. Since we THINK that we have confirmed that the 68, 78, and 88 will have VGA/PC input, what resolutions will be supported via this input?

8. Given the increased video processing required in the 1080p units 68, 78, 88 Series), what steps has Samsung taken to insure that we don't see lip sync issues? Did anyone ask specifically about this concern?

9. TOP PRIORITY QUESTION: Can anyone confirm that the 78 series 50", 67" and 70" models are real production models?

> Bill
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post #193 of 6622 Old 01-13-2005, 06:17 AM
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Daphoid wrote:

"I was originally planning on the HLP's, but then decided that because I wouldn't have the money for ANY TV period, until May 2005, that I'd go with the 61" 1080p model... Upon playing with my measuring tape, the 67" fills the space just a little more, which is always nice. I may go with the 61" though depending on final pricings... Because it's the exact same sit, just 6" more screen realestate, is it really worth the extra money?

You're just like me - I've got my tape measure handy also measuring because I had built-in made to house 61 inch TV and am now wondering if 67 inch set will be OK. Once these models come out, I doubt you'll see much more innovation on this kind of scale - probably time to buy - once you make sure the bugs in the new models have been worked out. I think it's a market-share grab with all these competing technologies. Everyone keeps raising the bar... god I love globalization! (at least in consumer electronics).

Also, I doubt Samsung is going to give upgrades on older models. It would be like IBM giving upgrades on computers because of new Pentium. The market is moving. so no need.

What is the story with the "Big Yellow" color wheel? Also, for the people who have actually seen this set - they claim very difficult to get rainbow effect. And one final question: how are new sets on fast pans like in sports?
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post #194 of 6622 Old 01-13-2005, 06:59 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by UCSB
Administrator ... I don't know if you still have the capability to send Steve P. at Samsung an email. But, if you do, I think he may be the only person that can resolve the confusion about the 50", 68" and 70" HLRxx78W's. While we may not want to bury him with all of our questions, understanding the status of these three HDTV's will be important for many people. I would like to encourage him to build the 50". Any help would be appreciated.

I e-mailed Steve Panosian yesterday with a quick personal question regarding the HLP4674W. I wanted to send him an easy-to-answer e-mail before hitting him with the questions from this thread. Well, I received a reply from him.

------------ Here's what I asked him:

Steve,

I have been waiting to purchase a Samsung DLP set since early 2004. Specifically, I have been waiting for the HLP4674W and when it came out I decided I would wait just a little bit longer to see what Samsung would be displaying at CES 2005.

I see there are plans for an HLR4667W. Is this the only new 46 inch DLP that Samsung will be releasing?

The reason I ask is because the HLP4674W fits just perfectly in our entertainment center. This is a great set, but I was waiting to see if an upgrade to this model would come.

Will there be a new "thin bezel" 46 inch DLP, or is the HLP4674W the last of its style?

Thank you for any information you can provide.


------------ Steve replied 18 minutes later with:

buy the 4674w while you can, in fact, since you waited this long, the weekend of the 23rd Jan will begin some new promos. If you subscrib to a participating cable servicer, there's another up to $200 gift card if you sign up for HD cable.

S


----------------------------------------------------------------

Based on Steve's comments, it sounds like there is no upgrade for the HLP4674W planned.

I would agree with you (Bill & Tetsujinwave) that none of the 2005 sets will have that shelf for the center channel, because in the past it was only these "thin bezel" sets that had the shelf - And it doesn't sound like they're making them anymore.

After I received this reply from Steve, I sent him another e-mail with questions from this thread. That was at the end of the day and he may have already gone home. I have not received a reply yet. If I do, I'll be sure to post it here.

If I don't hear from him by Friday afternoon, I'll send him a quick e-mail just asking specifically about the 50", 68" and 70" HLRxx78W's.
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post #195 of 6622 Old 01-13-2005, 07:12 AM
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Looks like I'll be getting a HLP4674W then. Same contrast ratio as the HLR series, and I don't want any of that extra CableCard stuff. Center channel shelf is a nice bonus.

I can't handle a picture larger than 46 inches given my current space.

I'm in no hurry, so I'll wait for them to come down in price. $2700 from a reputable dealer would be the sweetspot for me.

Edit: And the base HLRs only have one Digital Input (HDMI). I'll take the HLPs HDMI + DVI anyday.

Do you think the reason we won't see a sub 50 inch 1080p model is that you'd have to be a foot away from the screen to tell the difference in resolution? I'd personally love a smaller model with a 10000:1 contrast ratio.
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post #196 of 6622 Old 01-13-2005, 07:59 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by htwaits
Isn't Matsushita the owner of Panasonic? If so, they have an eight element color wheel in their 2004 models. That probably means the wheel has to spin faster than six or seven element wheels.

Hey there HT...
Don't know much about color wheels and how their speed is related to light engine processing speed (if indeed it is), but I was wondering why you would think an 8-segment wheel would have to spin faster than a 7-segment wheel.

Granted, the more segments a wheel has, the less "dwell" time any single color segment has in the light path. However, it seems to me that regardless of how many segments a wheel has, one revolution of the wheel produces the full "effect" intended by the designer; that is to display the correct colors. Is there any inherent advantage to speeding up wheels with more segments?

Sorry if this is off-topic, but your post piqued my curiosity.
Chris

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post #197 of 6622 Old 01-13-2005, 08:03 AM
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That might be a bit of wishful thinking. I was surprised they brought a 50" 1080p display. Pleasantly surprised, mind you--but if they were going to push a 46" 1080p, they probably would have shown it.

However, I also believe the fact that Samsung built a 50" shows that they are concerned about what people want (i. e., if they'll buy it, we'll build it), even if the real viewing benefit is less than ideal.
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post #198 of 6622 Old 01-13-2005, 08:07 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by MBPilot
a search on DC3 shows up some links:

Looks like the DC3 is a new variant of the HD2+ as the following articles indicate, and maybe is the chip in the new 720p models?.

0.8" 720p DarkChip3 by Texas Instruments
The HT300 E-LINK projector is the first on the market to feature the new 0.8" 720p DarkChip3 by Texas Instruments (HD2+ DC3). The DarkChip3 incorporates smaller mirror hinges, reduced gaps between mirrors, a flatter, more reflective surface and a new light absorbent coating for unmatched contrast and color uniformity. Also the DarkChip3 is a Fast Track Pixel (FTP) chip that allows an approx. 50% reduction of the dithering effect for an exceptionally natural, crystal clear image.

Is it possible the so-called HD4 chip is the same as the HD2+ DC3 chip that MB Pilot quotes above?

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post #199 of 6622 Old 01-13-2005, 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by TetsujinWave
but if they were going to push a 46" 1080p, they probably would have shown it.

I wasn't necessarily expecting a 46" 1080p - Just an upgraded version of the HLP4674W with the same thin bezel... But it sounds like the only new 46" is the HLR4667W.
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post #200 of 6622 Old 01-13-2005, 08:09 AM
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No. The HD4 is a .55 DMD. The HD2+ is a .8" DMD.

Incidentally, the xHDy chip is supposedly a .85" DMD.
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post #201 of 6622 Old 01-13-2005, 08:11 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Administrator

------------ Steve replied 18 minutes later with:

buy the 4674w while you can...

I wonder if Samsung is going to discontinue the 74 series once the new models start rolling out.

Besides Panosonic and LG, what other manufacturers had DLP TV's on display at CES?
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post #202 of 6622 Old 01-13-2005, 08:15 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Low Roller
I wonder if Samsung is going to discontinue the 74 series once the new models start rolling out.

My guess is that they'll discontinue:
The 74 Series when the 78 Series comes out.
The 63 Series when the 67 & 68 Series comes out.
The 85 Series when the 87 & 88 Series comes out.
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post #203 of 6622 Old 01-13-2005, 08:17 AM
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A lot of them. Off the top of my head:

Toshiba
Optoma
Sharp
Sagem
Mitsubishi

I probably have forgotten one or two, but you get the idea.
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post #204 of 6622 Old 01-13-2005, 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by Administrator
I would agree with you (Bill & Tetsujinwave) that none of the 2005 sets will have that shelf for the center channel, because in the past it was only these "thin bezel" sets that had the shelf - And it doesn't sound like they're making them anymore.

I haven't seen what the sloping back of the new units look like, but it seems like somebody could design a DIY shelf the would sit onto the top of set, using a small lip to anchor it in the front, and with back legs that would "clip" into some existing holes on the back panel, like maybe ventilation slots (if the sets have them). I guess one could get adventurous and drill a couple of holes in the back panel to attach the shelf's back legs into. If such a design would actually work, the plans could be posted here on the Forum for all to use. Any industrial designers out there?

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post #205 of 6622 Old 01-13-2005, 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by TetsujinWave
No. The HD4 is a .55 DMD. The HD2+ is a .8" DMD.

Incidentally, the xHDy chip is supposedly a .85" DMD.

Got it TW. Completely different animals then...

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post #206 of 6622 Old 01-13-2005, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally posted by Administrator
I e-mailed Steve Panosian yesterday with a quick personal question regarding the HLP4674W. I wanted to send him an easy-to-answer e-mail before hitting him with the questions from this thread. Well, I received a reply from him.

------------ Here's what I asked him:

Steve,

I have been waiting to purchase a Samsung DLP set since early 2004. Specifically, I have been waiting for the HLP4674W and when it came out I decided I would wait just a little bit longer to see what Samsung would be displaying at CES 2005.

I see there are plans for an HLR4667W. Is this the only new 46 inch DLP that Samsung will be releasing?

The reason I ask is because the HLP4674W fits just perfectly in our entertainment center. This is a great set, but I was waiting to see if an upgrade to this model would come.

Will there be a new "thin bezel" 46 inch DLP, or is the HLP4674W the last of its style?

Thank you for any information you can provide.


------------ Steve replied 18 minutes later with:

buy the 4674w while you can, in fact, since you waited this long, the weekend of the 23rd Jan will begin some new promos. If you subscrib to a participating cable servicer, there's another up to $200 gift card if you sign up for HD cable.

S

----------------------------------------------------------------

Based on Steve's comments, it sounds like there is no upgrade for the HLP4674W planned.

I would agree with you (Bill & Tetsujinwave) that none of the 2005 sets will have that shelf for the center channel, because in the past it was only these "thin bezel" sets that had the shelf - And it doesn't sound like they're making them anymore.

After I received this reply from Steve, I sent him another e-mail with questions from this thread. That was at the end of the day and he may have already gone home. I have not received a reply yet. If I do, I'll be sure to post it here.

If I don't hear from him by Friday afternoon, I'll send him a quick e-mail just asking specifically about the 50", 68" and 70" HLRxx78W's.

Thanks for sending Steve P. the questions, especially the series 78 50", 67", and 70" questions! After thinking about it, sending Steve the link to the start of this thread and asking him to check the info for accuracy and make additions seems like a good idea to me.

Thanks.

> Bill
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post #207 of 6622 Old 01-13-2005, 08:31 AM
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CC has a shelf that you can buy now that is a clip on. There was a thread discussing this and whether there would be stresses placed on the set that were undesirable. There was also someone who had a shelf made that attached to the back of a cabinet and then held the speaker (like a bike rack more or less).
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post #208 of 6622 Old 01-13-2005, 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by schaffer970
CC has a shelf that you can buy now that is a clip on. There was a thread discussing this and whether there would be stresses placed on the set that were undesirable. There was also someone who had a shelf made that attached to the back of a cabinet and then held the speaker (like a bike rack more or less).

Thanks Schaffer970. Guess I shoulda done a search first...I should know better....

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post #209 of 6622 Old 01-13-2005, 08:37 AM
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Is the 78 series a thin bezel model similar to ther current 74 series? Hard to tell from the pics. Thanks to all for all the hard work on this thread!
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post #210 of 6622 Old 01-13-2005, 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by Iwanthd
Is the 78 series a thin bezel model similar to ther current 74 series? Hard to tell from the pics. Thanks to all for all the hard work on this thread!

No, it is not. Unfortunately, the 74 Series was the last time we'll see that thin bezel and a center channel shelf.
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