Sony SXRD 50" and 60" - Oct/Nov - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 6249 Old 06-08-2005, 08:04 AM
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Regarding implementation of 1080p input


...............its probably as simple as the cost benefit isn't there. Simple business decision.


For those who insist that they got to have it, would you be willing to spend an extra $3K (Qualia 1080p upgrade cost to their front projector) to have it added to your set??

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post #92 of 6249 Old 06-08-2005, 08:19 AM
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I understand your point, but with Sony products on the horizon that have 1080p outputs, Sony will build the inputs.

Sony will want you to buy a $5,000 TV because you can view your PS3 in 1080p, not that you will buy a PS3 just because you already have a new TV.

PS3 will drive 1080p sales to some extent and Sony is coincidently one of the first on the market to have true 1080p.
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post #93 of 6249 Old 06-08-2005, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLee View Post

I also believe SXRDs are notable for their color accuracy (wide gamut?) but how much of that is attributed to the Xenon bulbs used in the current Qualias and how much is attributed to the basic design of the SXRD technology is anyone's guess at this point...

One thing is for sure, these cheaper SXRDs will not use an expensive Xenon bulb so those lucious reds everybody raves about with the Qualias will probably be a distant memory....

One thing that Lew Black noted in his post on these new models:

Quote:
KDSR50A10 $3,999.99 Nov. 05, KDSR60A10 $4,999.99 Oct 05. HDTV monitor (3 SXRD/1920x1080), qualia006 pure red, high contrast ratio, film like reproduction, WEGA Engine HD (DRC MultiFunction V2), S-Master, HDMI, Audio Optical Out (Tos Link), PC Input (D-Sub 15 pin), MS Viewer, New Edge Design, WEGA GATE User Interface

Not 100% sure what "qualia006 pure red" means but it's probably safe to assume that (based on the above quote) these models will deliver the nice reds you speak of.
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post #94 of 6249 Old 06-08-2005, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott MS View Post

I understand your point, but with Sony products on the horizon that have 1080p outputs, Sony will build the inputs.

Sony will want you to buy a $5,000 TV because you can view your PS3 in 1080p, not that you will buy a PS3 just because you already have a new TV.

PS3 will drive 1080p sales to some extent and Sony is coincidently one of the first on the market to have true 1080p.

I have never known Sony to be the leader in offering feature rich products at the lowest prices. Typically they tier their products to offer models that hit various price points by starting at the top and stripping features to reduce price point.

I don't expect the new GW SXRD sets to be 1080p input compatible. That wil likely be a 2nd generation or Qualia feature set. Keep in mind the Q005 flat panel LCD in Japan is offered in more than one size. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Q006 offered in 50"/60" sizes being sold concurrently with 50"/60" Grand Wega SXRD sets with less features.


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post #95 of 6249 Old 06-08-2005, 09:02 AM
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I have never known Sony to be the leader in offering feature rich products at the lowest prices.

That's not really what I said. Sony, while not always on the cutting edge of features, loves to incorporate their own technology across their products. How many people have TVs that read Memory stick and only Memory stick, while other manufacturers have multi-format card readers. There also was the whole S-Link Sony system compatible with other Sony products that Sony was pushing a few years back.

Sony will accomodate their own products to sell more product. This is all speculative at this point. Whether the specs on this unannounced set are correct or whether it will ever even be delivered (this is still all preliminary until they formally announce them) is yet to be seen. Let's wait for a formal announcement. Even the Qualia 006 was originally a 70" XBR when it was first announced.
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post #96 of 6249 Old 06-08-2005, 10:04 AM
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This is from a Panasonic press release just released today:

Quote:
The TH-42PWD8UK and TH-37PWD8UK offer a resolution of 852 x 480 pixels. The units can display 1080p 24p/24sf, 1080i 50/60, 720p 50/60, 480p/i and 576 p/i and offer support for VGA, SVGA, XGA, SXGA and UXGA resolution.

These specs are for new 37" and 42" plasma EDTV models. It doesn't say which inputs can take 1080p (may only be VGA) but if a 37" EDTV with an MSRP under $2400 can accept 1080p, there's no excuse for a 1080p native-res set not including the feature at twice the price.

Here's a link to the press release

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post #97 of 6249 Old 06-08-2005, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by empire_of_one View Post

37" EDTV with an MSRP under $2400 can accept 1080p, there's no excuse for a 1080p native-res set not including the feature at twice the price.

Here's a link to the press release

The Qualia 004 , Sony HS51, and I believe the Qualia 06 already support 1080p24sf, which is a HDTV standard.

I am assuming people are up in arms over 1080p60??, which currently should be of interest only to gamers. The key question is if these sets had 1080p60 right now, what would you feed it
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post #98 of 6249 Old 06-08-2005, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post

I am assuming people are up in arms over 1080p60??, which currently should be of interest only to gamers. The key question is if these sets had 1080p60 right now, what would you feed it


Spec sheets for unreleased products???

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post #99 of 6249 Old 06-08-2005, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Spec sheets for unreleased products???

LMAO.
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post #100 of 6249 Old 06-08-2005, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Regarding implementation of 1080p input


...............its probably as simple as the cost benefit isn't there. Simple business decision.


For those who insist that they got to have it, would you be willing to spend an extra $3K (Qualia 1080p upgrade cost to their front projector) to have it added to your set??

A rather silly stance given that the Dell 24" 1920*1200 under $1K computer monitor can accept 1920*1200 60fps DVI signals. Note that this is the whole monitor with 1:1 pixel mapping. Bottom line is the incremental cost is NOT the issue. The technology is here today and it is cheap.

One point-of-view indicates that "TV" manufactures are simply stalling and want us consumers to upgrade every year or two.
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post #101 of 6249 Old 06-08-2005, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post

The Qualia 004 , Sony HS51, and I believe the Qualia 06 already support 1080p24sf, which is a HDTV standard.

I am assuming people are up in arms over 1080p60??, which currently should be of interest only to gamers. The key question is if these sets had 1080p60 right now, what would you feed it

Some call it a "computer".
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post #102 of 6249 Old 06-08-2005, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post

The Qualia 004 , Sony HS51, and I believe the Qualia 06 already support 1080p24sf, which is a HDTV standard.

I am assuming people are up in arms over 1080p60??, which currently should be of interest only to gamers. The key question is if these sets had 1080p60 right now, what would you feed it

Yeah but those are all very high-priced pieces of equipment. I'm thinking of the new SXRD sets (which I hope do support 1080p inputs, but it's all just a guess right now) as well as the forthcoming DLP and LCOS 1080p sets, few of which seem to have the capability.

I thought it was strange that the press release mentioned 1080p/24 and not 1080p/60. It's my understanding that HTPCs and the upcoming PS3 will output 1080p/60, and 1080p/24 would be for film-based content, most likely on BluRay/HD-DVD, but so far whether they'll actually do 1080p for those is speculation at best. But then I don't even know what value 1080p input would have for an EDTV in the first place.

In any case, the important thing about that press release to me, is that it further demonstrates that failure to include 1080p input capability on any new 1080p native-res set is due neither to technical impediments nor cost impediments.

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post #103 of 6249 Old 06-08-2005, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by empire_of_one View Post

Yeah
In any case, the important thing about that press release to me, is that it further demonstrates that failure to include 1080p input capability on any new 1080p native-res set is due neither to technical impediments nor cost impediments.

Your thinking is on the right track! Now here is what the manufactures did: they changed the name of their DLP xHD4 chip to "1080p" to put up a smoke-screen and confuse the consumer. To a large extent they have succeeded. Very devious indeed!

Note that existing 720p displays all handle REAL PROGRESSIVE INPUT SIGNALS(1280*720p 60fps)

Do the new "1080p" displays handle real progressive input signals? (1920*1080p 24-72 fps)
Answer: NO!

Did you ever see the movie "Back To The Future" where Biff has the dump-truck of manure dumped on him? Manufactures think that consumers/Biff will not be able to figure out that they are being screwed. Instead, they will all repeat their false mantra "1080p", just like a parrot.
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post #104 of 6249 Old 06-08-2005, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

Some call it a "computer".

Never head of it.
What sources will you be running on this "computer".

I believe I have already covered video games, for which I believe 1280x1024 @ 72 is still the sweet spot for fast action.
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post #105 of 6249 Old 06-08-2005, 11:46 AM
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Houston,

People can Run there Terminator 2 Wmv hd on it or shows that they have record OTA.(over the air)

P
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post #106 of 6249 Old 06-08-2005, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

A rather silly stance given that the Dell 24" 1920*1200 under $1K computer monitor can accept 1920*1200 60fps DVI signals. Note that this is the whole monitor with 1:1 pixel mapping. Bottom line is the incremental cost is NOT the issue. The technology is here today and it is cheap.


Which was manuactured for the computer industry, not the home theater market.

Some day when 1080p is a common input signal for home theater, you'll see manufacturers including it in their design, but why would you expect them to include it before there is strong enough demand. Hardly believe the few that want to display their computers on their TV would justify it.

.........oops, I'm being silly again.

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post #107 of 6249 Old 06-08-2005, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gazelle View Post

Don't be so sure about that. I think the coming Sony SXRD's might have some trouble developing into anything but a niche market for this year, anyway. By late fall when all the manufacturer's 1080P DLP's, D-ILA's and LCOS lines are out competition for market share will be fierce. Street prices for 54"-58" 1080P sets will be well under 3K and 60"-64" models won't be very much over 3K. Sony will either have to drop their eventual street prices substantially from where they are anticipated to be or have a tremendous quality advantage over all other lines to become a mass market seller - -


Well gee, since Tweeter claims the 50" Samsung 1080p set that's coming out in June/July is ~$4500, I stand by my claim that the SXRD will do quite nicely. I think your predictions are a little agressive and/or early with regard to street prices. If anything, it will be Samsung who is forced to bow to competitive pricing from Sony.
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post #108 of 6249 Old 06-08-2005, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

Houston,

People can Run there Terminator 2 Wmv hd on it or shows that they have record OTA.(over the air)

P

I have T2 WMV. Care to name another WMV title anyone is interested in. OK maybe Coral Reef. Have you compared it to the T2 DVHS 1080i version? Not a lot of difference IMO.

There is no 1080p OTA available. It is either 720p or 1080i.

I agree that supporting any possible input would be perfect. For movies people should focus more on 1080p24(sf) than 1080p60! I believe the Sonys already support 1080p24sf.
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post #109 of 6249 Old 06-08-2005, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UUronl View Post

Well gee, since Tweeter claims the 50" Samsung 1080p set that's coming out in June/July is ~$4500, I stand by my claim that the SXRD will do quite nicely. I think your predictions are a little agressive and/or early with regard to street prices. If anything, it will be Samsung who is forced to bow to competitive pricing from Sony.


You're pricing is WAY off unless you are referring to a much larger model. The 56" model can be had for little more than 3K now on pre-orders from etailers and the 61" model is only a few hundred more. They will certainly be AT A MINIMUM $300-$500 cheaper when all the 1080P lines start competing for sales this Fall/Winter, so as i said, SXRD may very well do quite nicely, but it will have to be at significantly lower street prices than they had been anticipating.....
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post #110 of 6249 Old 06-08-2005, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UUronl View Post

Well gee, since Tweeter claims the 50" Samsung 1080p set that's coming out in June/July is ~$4500, I stand by my claim that the SXRD will do quite nicely. I think your predictions are a little agressive and/or early with regard to street prices. If anything, it will be Samsung who is forced to bow to competitive pricing from Sony.



LMAO! Obviously they will gather dust and grow old. Tweeters sure isn't going to be selling any. The MUCH LARGER 56" Samsung 1080P DLP is available for $1,300 LESS right now on pre-orders!(one of whom is a forum sponsor). I would certainly avoid the Tweeters quoting you those prices if you're in the market to buy anything
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post #111 of 6249 Old 06-08-2005, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gazelle View Post

LMAO! Obviously they will gather dust and grow old. Tweeters sure isn't going to be selling any. The MUCH LARGER 56" Samsung 1080P DLP is available for $1,300 LESS right now on pre-orders!(one of whom is a forum sponsor). I would certainly avoid the Tweeters quoting you those prices if you're in the market to buy anything

I think the Samsung model he is referring to is the high-end "Captain Kirk" pedestal model, thus the price discrepancy. Perhaps you two are talking about 2 different products. The Capt. Kirk model is in the most recent Tweeter's mailer.

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post #112 of 6249 Old 06-08-2005, 03:30 PM
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Quick clarification to one post above: The Qualia 006 does not accept any form of 1080p signal. Only 1080i. Also, I believe the 006 has a UHP lamp, not a Xenon lamp.

These new sets will be quite interesting!

Cheers.
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post #113 of 6249 Old 06-09-2005, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gazelle View Post

LMAO! Obviously they will gather dust and grow old. Tweeters sure isn't going to be selling any. The MUCH LARGER 56" Samsung 1080P DLP is available for $1,300 LESS right now on pre-orders!(one of whom is a forum sponsor). I would certainly avoid the Tweeters quoting you those prices if you're in the market to buy anything


With all due respect, I don't think quoting a powerbuy price that is almost $1000 off the list price of $4,199 on the 56" is at all illuminating. I think you grossly overestimate the percentage of total TV buyers who will be able to take advantage of such a deal. The bottom line is that the MSRPs are very close, even when factoring in the extra real-estate the Samsung 56" has over a 50".

Sony 50" SXRD - MSRP $3999
Samsung 56" DLP - MSRP $4,199

Discounts will (and have historically been) very close between Samsung and Sony. Power buys are great for us, but I doubt highly there will be many people who will be able to pick up the 56" for that kind of a price outside of this forum.
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post #114 of 6249 Old 06-09-2005, 04:53 PM
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In the current issue (May / June) of the Perfect Vision magazine (http://www.theperfectvision.com/), there is a review of the Qualia 006. In short, while the reviewer liked many things about it, his main complaint was with some "false contouring" the set was introducing into the picture. This problem was said to crop up only on some DVDs, but that when it did, it was "very distracting". From my understanding, false contouring is essentially the same as color banding (a computer graphics term), in which transistions from light to dark (such as an illuminated street light against the night sky) are seen as distinct blocks or bands of color instead of being smooth and seamless. The reviewer noted that this was not a problem with the Qualia 004 front projector, so I hope they get this kink worked out before they release the new SXRD sets.

You can download the current issue of the magazine for $10 at the Perfect Vision web site.


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post #115 of 6249 Old 06-09-2005, 05:01 PM
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Can I just say I saw the 70 inch model at Ultimate Electronics today, and it was unbelievable....

So big, yet so clear...

Mike
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post #116 of 6249 Old 06-09-2005, 05:20 PM
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Doesn't the low-cost Silicon Image SiI 9011 receiver with 165 mhz bandwidth accept 1080p?* and UXGA 1600x1200@60Hz?

http://www.siliconimage.com/products/product.aspx?id=45

There is no reason for these sets not to have a 1080p input. It exists, it's low-cost so put it on.

Are the 1080p sets only able to do 1080p24,30?

What exactly is the process for converting 1080i to 1080p? (most 720p sets use only one 1080i field, which is 540, and upscale it to 720p. Is a similar process being used in the new 1080p sets?)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It does seem that they are trying to stretch this out because after reaching 1080p60 where do they go. Broadcast, Cable and Satellite are behind so it will be quite awhile before they reach 1080p60, HiDef DVD will most likely be 1080p24,30 for the next 10 years, Sony PS3 1080p60 for the next five. After reaching 1080p60, it is back to the old flashy marketing names for incrementally improved contrast and picture processing.

Emerging, new technologies might help with saving limited space and reducing prices, but that 1080p60 plateau will still remain. Then it's chase the ever shrinking dollar. Possibly, fiber-to-the-home will break the bandwidth problem for content carriers, but then you have to get joe six-pack to dedicate an entire wall to enjoy the increased resolution. How big can you go, an IMAX in every home?

Next step the HoloDeck! ;-)
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post #117 of 6249 Old 06-09-2005, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

In the current issue (May / June) of the Perfect Vision magazine (http://www.theperfectvision.com/), there is a review of the Qualia 006. In short, while the reviewer liked many things about it, his main complaint was with some "false contouring" the set was introducing into the picture. This problem was said to crop up only on some DVDs, but that when it did, it was "very distracting".
- Tim


Since it only appears on some DVDs, wouldn't you think its a problem with the DVD authoring?

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post #118 of 6249 Old 06-09-2005, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Since it only appears on some DVDs, wouldn't you think its a problem with the DVD authoring?

I see false contouring all the time on my 32" analog CRT tube set, so obviously a lot of DVDs have this problem. I actually see LESS false contouring on most HD sets than I do on my analog set, so it seems a lot of HDTVs have some processing to correct for this. DVD color is 8-bit, and most sets do their color processing somewhere between 10-12 bits. So the difference in false contouring between different sets seems more a function of how well those sets do at correcting existing false contouring, rather than a difference caused by adding false contouring where it doesn't already exist.

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post #119 of 6249 Old 06-09-2005, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UUronl View Post

With all due respect, I don't think quoting a powerbuy price that is almost $1000 off the list price of $4,199 on the 56" is at all illuminating. I think you grossly overestimate the percentage of total TV buyers who will be able to take advantage of such a deal. The bottom line is that the MSRPs are very close, even when factoring in the extra real-estate the Samsung 56" has over a 50".

Sony 50" SXRD - MSRP $3999
Samsung 56" DLP - MSRP $4,199

Discounts will (and have historically been) very close between Samsung and Sony. Power buys are great for us, but I doubt highly there will be many people who will be able to pick up the 56" for that kind of a price outside of this forum.

You're kidding, right? You just can't be that naive.
First of all, your "MSRP" is way off or outdated. It is less than that. Second, "MSRP" is a meaningless number. None of these sets sell for anywhere near "MSRP" and if you pay more than 80% of MSRP for any big screen TV, you are being taken.
The "powerbuy" price is a decent price but nothing super-special. similar prices are also available for pre-orders at a few other etailers. Actually, the "Power buy" on the 720P line turned out to be a couple of hundred dollars MORE than the prices available immediately upon these sets hitting the street. Anyone can "take advantage" of an even LOWER price if they wait until the competiition heats up this fall. Really, this is not rocket science. If you can buy an item for $3200-$3300 before it's actually been shipped, you will be able to buy it for LESS after it's on the street for a month or so - not MORE! The 56" set will settle in below 3K by late fall, the 61" model at a little over 3K. And we're not even discussing the other manufacturer's 1080P lines which will be out in a few months. this is reality. For a 50" Sony SXRD to compete for anything but a small, niche market, it will have to sell at street prices LESS than where other manufacturers 56" sets settle in at. Not many people will pay more for a much smaller set, even if it has a somewhat better PQ(which has yet to be proven). The Samsung 1080P's have very good PQ, the coming JVC 1080P D-ILA's have an even better PQ, the coming Toshiba 1080P DLPs are said to be maybe the best of the DLP crop this year, and i haven't even gotten into Mitsubishi, LG, Sharp, etc. Take my word for it, Sony is not going to sell too many 50" sets for much more than 3K....
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post #120 of 6249 Old 06-09-2005, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaveCanem View Post

Doesn't the low-cost Silicon Image SiI 9011 receiver with 165 mhz bandwidth accept 1080p?* and UXGA 1600x1200@60Hz?

http://www.siliconimage.com/products/product.aspx?id=45

There is no reason for these sets not to have a 1080p input. It exists, it's low-cost so put it on.


Exactly! It's incomprehensible that any manufacturer would ship without an SiI 9011 chip. They're cheap and they are available. Has to be some MPAA legal angle i'm missing here....
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