Sony SXRD 50" and 60" - Oct/Nov - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 6249 Old 06-03-2005, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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UPDATE of all current info (courtesy of Univited Guest)

Since info on these SXRD models is so spread out in this thread, here's a recap based on everyone's comments so far. Based on my sources, this information should be correct, but you can never be 100% sure until you open the box.

50" KDS-R50XBR1 MSRP: $3999
60" KDS-R60XBR1 MSRP: $4999

Features:
- 3 SXRD image panels (1920 x 1080 pixels each)
- Cinema black Pro with Advanced Iris dynamic iris mode
- Wega Engine HD video processing
- Digital Reality Creation MultiFunction V2 upconversion
- Twin-View Picture-in-Picture (split screen)
- picture settings memory for each video input
- non-detachable side speakers (15 watts x 2)

Connections:
- 3 composite video (2 rear, 1 front)
- 3 S-video (2 rear, 1 front)
- 2 component video
- 2 HDMI (one with audio jacks)
- 3 i.LINK ports (2 rear, 1 front)
- PC input
- 2 RF inputs (1 Antenna, 1 Cable)
- Memory Stick slot

Dimensions & weight
KDS-R50XBR1: 57-1/4"W x 34"H x 18-7/8"D; 94.8 lbs.
KDS-R60XBR1: 66"W x 39-3/4"H x 20-1/4"D; 112.5 lbs.

Notes
i.LINK ports appear to be HD-compatible like those on the Qualia 006. In the "i.LINK Setup" description, the example shows a JVC D-VHS deck as the source.

As you may have gathered from some comments about the A10 Grand Wegas, there are two parts to Cinema Black Pro. First, there's a global iris adjustment with, I think 4 positions, that's designed to compensate for various lighting conditions in your room. The separate Advanced Iris "dynamic iris" option is one of several video adjustments that are only available in the "Pro" picture mode.

Hope this is useful. To those folks who had to scratch the SXRDs off their lists due to the side speakers: my sympathies. I was surprised, too. To everyone else who's still considering the 50" or 60": I'm still convinced the picture quality will be worth waiting for.
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post #2 of 6249 Old 06-03-2005, 01:24 PM
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5k for a 60" model and 14k for a 70" model?

How is Sony going to swing that one?

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post #3 of 6249 Old 06-03-2005, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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The other relevant story on this issue.....thanks to EZucker...


Sony hiring to build smaller SXRDs

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sony plans to hire 1,000
By James Pletcher Jr., Herald-Standard
06/02/2005

Increased sales of its Wega television, a new TV line to be introduced this fall and other factors are the reasons behind Sony's recent announcement that it will hire 1,000 permanent and seasonal workers at its New Stanton factory.
....
Sony will begin producing its new proprietary SXRD (Silicon X-tal Reflective Display) televisions this fall.

"In layman's terms, this is a pure high-definition television, which gives more lines of resolution vertically and horizontally across the screen. It triples the number of pixels and provides much better contrast. The picture actually has some depth and almost looks three-dimensional,'' he said.

Sony is producing SXRDs in Japan for the eastern market, and the New Stanton plant will be the only Sony factory in North America manufacturing the sets, Koff said.

"I'm not sure of the screen sizes, but believe there will be a 50-, 60- and possibly a 70-inch version that we will be making here,'' he said.

"We are already building five new production lines for the SXRDs. In fact, we started that yesterday (Tuesday). There are new jigs and things like that we need to install for the manufacturing process, but the manufacturing process will not be vastly different from making the LCD (liquid crystal display) televisions we have now.''

Sony's New Stanton facility, Koff added, has already ceased producing the 7-inch cathode ray tubes (CRTs) that went into its picture-tube-based rear projection television set.

http://www.heraldstandard.com/site/...id=480247&rfi=6

or

http://*******.com/92b2w

Evan Zucker
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post #4 of 6249 Old 06-03-2005, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.10-Crux View Post

5k for a 60" model and 14k for a 70" model?

How is Sony going to swing that one?


I am pretty sure these smaller ones wont be "Qualia's"...
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post #5 of 6249 Old 06-03-2005, 01:35 PM
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I know they have in other technologies, but what about the upcoming KDS-R__A10 line... Has anybody seen a prototype of this SXRD family they are producing? Any of the trades shows, maybe? I'm very eager to get my hands/eyes on this technology.
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post #6 of 6249 Old 06-03-2005, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Lew Black:
>>More news from Sony. The 50" (and 60") SXRD models are real: KDSR50A10 $3,999.99 Nov. 05. KDSR60A10 $4,999.99 Oct. 05.

Do you have a link to where this information was posted?

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post #7 of 6249 Old 06-03-2005, 02:56 PM
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<5k for a 60" model and 14k for a 70" model?>

Probably 720p. The Qualia 006 is 1080p.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.10-Crux View Post

5k for a 60" model and 14k for a 70" model?

How is Sony going to swing that one?

When this story came out a few weeks ago, the WSJ mentioned that Sony was planning on dropping prices on existing sets when the new SXRD were introduced. The 70" 006 wasn't mentioned specifically but it would make sense (IMO) to narrow such a huge price gap. Either that or they just don't care about 006 mass consumption (sales have been weak so far, only a few thousand) and will leave it where it is.
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post #9 of 6249 Old 06-03-2005, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wohlstad View Post

<5k for a 60" model and 14k for a 70" model?>

Probably 720p. The Qualia 006 is 1080p.

SXRD is and has always been 1920x1080 or 1080p.

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200302/03-008E/
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post #10 of 6249 Old 06-03-2005, 05:34 PM
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SXRD is a technology - basically LCOS - and resolution can be tailored to the needs of the manufacturer - just like LCD. You can be sure Sony is not going to cannibalize its Qualia line by offering 1080p units at $4k and $5k pricepoints.
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post #11 of 6249 Old 06-03-2005, 05:45 PM
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Sony's marketing strategy for SXRD has always been that it is "real" HD, ie 1920x1080. They have stated publicly that you will see higher res in the future, but not lower. Selling a 720p would destroy a marketing campaing they have spent a year, and millions of $ creating.

Qualia is Sony's statement brand. there is a $4K 2 megapixel camera in the line as well as a $10k 34" direct view TV. The fact that you can buy a $500 6 megapixel camera from Sony is not impacting Qualia.
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post #12 of 6249 Old 06-03-2005, 07:06 PM
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Qualia is a product, SXRD is a technology. Qualia may well be 1080p and above, but I don't remember Sony publically committing themselves not to offer lower-resolution SXRD chips in other products. There is room for both 1080p and 720p devices there.

At this point these discussions are moot point, as we will have to wait for the official info.

I'm all for 1080p (and 4320p for that matter):
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SXRD what built straight into 1080p

But they could create one for 720p, but I know sony was trying to mass produce teh sxrd chip to bring the price down.
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post #14 of 6249 Old 06-03-2005, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GBFreek View Post

Originally Posted by Lew Black
More news from Sony. The 50" (and 60") SXRD models are real: KDSR50A10 $3,999.99 Nov. 05. KDSR60A10 $4,999.99 Oct. 05.
....


Not that I have any new info, but figured its time for its own thread.

Hey GB where did you get the models and pricing info. Do you have a link.
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post #15 of 6249 Old 06-03-2005, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morfeeus View Post

Hey GB where did you get the models and pricing info. Do you have a link.

Lew Black posted this back in the WEGA thread, I pulled it out from there..........I got no personal knowledge on it.
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post #16 of 6249 Old 06-03-2005, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wohlstad View Post

<5k for a 60" model and 14k for a 70" model?>

Probably 720p. The Qualia 006 is 1080p.

Within the news article posted by GBfreek, it states, " . . . this is a pure high-definition television, which gives more lines of resolution vertically and horizontally across the screen. It triples the number of pixels and provides much better contrast."

Doesn't seem to me that Sony could provide improvements above and stick with 720p resolution.
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post #17 of 6249 Old 06-03-2005, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Within the news article posted by GBfreek, it states, " . . . this is a pure high-definition television, which gives more lines of resolution vertically and horizontally across the screen. It triples the number of pixels and provides much better contrast."

Doesn't seem to me that Sony could provide improvements above and stick with 720p resolution.

They gave a paper about SXRD at SID (~2 weeks ago) in Boston, and they didn't talk about a new 720p SXRD chip, instead they talked about their new .61" 1920x1080 SXRD chip to be used in RPTV in the near future. They mentioned it had 5000:1 CR, and a fill rate of 90%.
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post #18 of 6249 Old 06-03-2005, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

They gave a paper about SXRD at SID (~2 weeks ago) in Boston, and they didn't talk about a new 720p SXRD chip, instead they talked about their new .61" 1920x1080 SXRD chip to be used in RPTV in the near future. They mentioned it had 5000:1 CR, and a fill rate of 90%.

I'm familair with most of those specs, but what is fill rate?
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post #19 of 6249 Old 06-03-2005, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

I'm familair with most of those specs, but what is fill rate?

Fill rate is the same thing as fill factor. It's the percentage of pixel area which passes light. It directly correlates with screen door effect. The higher the fill rate the smaller the black border around each pixel. For reference, good LCD microdisplay panels have a 60% fill rate.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post

Fill rate is the same thing as fill factor. It's the percentage of pixel area which passes light. It directly correlates with screen door effect. The higher the fill rate the smaller the black border around each pixel. For reference, good LCD microdisplay panels have a 60% fill rate.

Thanks for the explanation. That makes this new technology sound even better!
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post #21 of 6249 Old 06-03-2005, 11:28 PM
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This sounds really exciting, something worth replacing my CRT with. Keep us posted.
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Geeez, I was waiting for the new Sony 50" A10 model coming this summer and now I hear about SXRD. Now I have to put up with my 19" Sony until Christmas for this set.

HURRY UP SONY!!!

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Another informative post from Lew we should probably add to this thread (corrected):

Quote:


KDSR50A10 $3,999.99 Nov. 05, KDSR60A10 $4,999.99 Oct 05. HDTV monitor (3 SXRD/1920x1080), qualia006 pure red, high contrast ratio, film like reproduction, WEGA Engine HD (DRC MultiFunction V2), S-Master, HDMI, Audio Optical Out (Tos Link), PC Input (D-Sub 15 pin), MS Viewer, New Edge Design, WEGA GATE User Interface

[About his source]: As I have said earlier, I am passing on information that Sony has released to salespeople. They are helping us, as many systems are planned way ahead of time. They email us info and I am copying pertinant information. I probably should get an okay from our rep to do this, but I figure it is public information once they release it. What I have posted is all I have right now. Lew

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post #24 of 6249 Old 06-04-2005, 08:24 AM
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What if the prices are really:

$6,999 for the 50" and $8,999 for the 60"?

Anyways, the prices will come down. Qualia is so highly priced due to the nature of the units being hand built in Japan and available in very limited quantities.

When you start running sets down assembly lines in the U.S., you are making probably hundreds of thousands, not thousands.

If Sony has found a way to mass produce SXRD panels with quality in tact, the prices will come down significantly.
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Also, from Beefchopper (emphasis mine):

Quote:


I have no idea if this is accurate but for what it's worth, I was told by a major Sony dealer that they will be coming out with a "50 inch SXRD Grand Wega" rear projection this year at an expected list price of $3999. He said it is SXRD but not a Qualia and the model number will be KDSR50A10.

[About his source:] I don't think it's right for me to mention the guy's name unless he does so himself. He's got a large custom design and installation firm (CEDIA member) and he put it in the specs for a job he'll be doing for me in the late fall. I thought he must have meant the new A10 50" LCD but when I asked him if he was sure he hadn't made an error in the description he said he was positive it was a SXRD and has already seen a demo of the TV. He said the only thing they would tell him about it was it wouldn't be called a Qualia but he didn't know what that meant as far as missing features or degraded quality.

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Yup, I'm looking for a 60" model.
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post #27 of 6249 Old 06-04-2005, 05:55 PM
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From the new Grand Vega thread:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tecumseh
Just who is this "Lew"?
Deep Throat has been identified, what do we know about the man named Lew and who are his sources exactly?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm


Bob Woodward will release my identity when I die.....

Actually I will identify myself to anyone in the Denver area who would like to come do business with me!! Lew
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post #28 of 6249 Old 06-04-2005, 07:41 PM
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I very much doubt there's even a 720p SXRD being designed at this point. It's such a small chip and fabbing even one version is challenging enough.

Also, at those prices they have to have 1080p. 50-inch DLP is headed for the low $2000s and 60-inch for something in the $3K range. At $4K and $5K, they are going to have enough trouble selling these at all outside our geek-set, videophile realms.

This is very exciting news, but really, not even a little surprising. I believe, in fact, that I reported something similar around CES in January. In fact, my sources in 2004 telegraphed the jumbo RPTV at $10Kish and these sets in this timeframe even then.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #29 of 6249 Old 06-05-2005, 06:47 AM
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[quote=rogo]I very much doubt there's even a 720p SXRD being designed at this point. It's such a small chip and fabbing even one version is challenging enough.

Also, at those prices they have to have 1080p. 50-inch DLP is headed for the low $2000s and 60-inch for something in the $3K range. At $4K and $5K, they are going to have enough trouble selling these at all outside our geek-set, videophile realms.
QUOTE]

I would agree that it would make no sense for Sony to introduce a 720P version. If the story is true about the 50" and 60" sets, then I would expect that they would be using their .6-inch 1080P panel they disclosed at SID a few weeks ago. They are simply leveraging LCOS's ability to scale down better than other technologies.

Furthermore, everything else Sony seems to be doing lately, including the announcement of the Playstation 3 supporting 1080P points to Sony focusing on 1080.

You have to expect that Sony does not want to only be in the ultra high end. The Qualia line appears to be there to establish Sony as a leader and to introduce new technology, but they can't afford to only be in the Qualia line. They have to be competitive. It would make no business sense to "price protect" the Qualia line by pricing their other products uncompetitively. The Qualia line is more there to market the rest of the Sony line.

At $4K for 50" and $5K for 60" they are very competitive to the disclosed prices for other 1080P sets this year. They can market as being a "True" 1080P versus wobble mirror 1080P and they won't have the rainbow effect.

I think the handwriting is on the wall that whether people "need" it or not, almost everything in a few years will be 1080P. There are only 3 networks (ABC, ESPN, and FOX) that support 720P and everyone else is at 1080 (all be it 1080i). With the scaling ability of LCOS I would expect in a few years there will be next to no difference in cost to make a 1080P versus a 720P set. This will not be as true with other technologies, so LCOS is at a competitive advantage at the higher resolution which come back to why it is most likely that Sony will be at 1080P or higher for all their LCOS developments.
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post #30 of 6249 Old 06-05-2005, 07:21 AM
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I would have to agree with Rogo.

To some extent, Sony introducing these sets in the fall is more like "keeping up with the competition". Mitsubishi, Toshiba, Hitachi, etc. are all rolling out 1080p DLPs in that timeframe at price points similar to the rumored Sony sets. Samsung currently sells a 1080p LCD panel at $5,000.

While Sony can continue to claim their technology is better, they won't sell any sets if they don't get them into the showroom. My guess, based on the recent article about the Sony factory in PA setting up 5 production lines for SXRD, is that they are finally going mass production this fall. Sony has even said themselves that they want SXRD to be the technology in all their projection sets in the future.
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