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post #181 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 11:30 AM
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I just noticed that DNIe is off on my set, when I turn on the demo the ON side looks different but the OFF side looks just like it does with the demo off. I thought it was the other way around, does anyone know about turning DNIe on and off?
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post #182 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by schaffer970 View Post

John_Jones_CA, looks nice! I really like the fit. How much space do you have between the top of the set and the bottom of the shelf? Just thinking about keeping air moving for cooling. Hope you are enjoying!

There is about 1/2" space, funny thing is that the set has been on for quite a few hours now and I can't sense any heat differential by putting my fingers in the space or by going underneath and putting my arm under the set. I don't think I will be having heat problems even with this tight setup. I wish I had one of them wireless thermometer thingys.
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post #183 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Clorox View Post

Great picture! You just barely squeezed that sucker in there. It is as if the house was designed for that Sammy 5668!

I noticed you said you needed a component cable for your PS2. Even though I'm in NYC and we don't have a WalMart here, I found a MadCatz component PS2 cable from Walmart.com for only $5 plus about $5 shipping. That's about the cheapest I could find one anywhere (what can I say, I'm cheap). I ordered on the 19th and it's supposed to arrive tomorrow. You can get much faster than that paying the cheapest shipping option. It also works with Xbox (It's got two connectors on one end) in case anyone else needs one.

The size fit was a motivating factor in my purchase decision (no way to get a Mits in there for example) I almost chickened out and went with a thin bezel 720p when they were at Costco, glad I waited. It was a hard time finding a stand that would fit, when I did I was just lucky that it worked and looked okay.

Thanks for the tip on the cable I'll check it out.
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post #184 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by NorthJersey View Post

nice setup. Where are your speakers located ?

Since I was given this overpriced, underperforming Bose 321 for christmas (I was planning on doing it right after I got the TV but instead I just accepted the gift). There are only two speakers and a subwoofer in this 'pseudo surround' setup. The speakers are in the picture, on the shelf above the TV. The subwoofer is in the corner to the right of the fireplace. It sounds much better than TV speakers, costs way too much, lacks all of the surround effect but was easy to setup and free.

Eventually I will upgrade my speakers to some in-ceiling surrounds and wall hung fronts. I am considering the Anthony Gallo sphere sattelites but that will be several more months of investigation and saving. I have a large open living room that makes it hard to do surround right especially with full sized speakers so everything will be mounted sattelites.
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post #185 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMSko View Post

1. Do the discrete codes for the HLPxx63 series work on the HLRxxx8 models? I'm particularly interested in whether the power on code works properly and what code is used for the second HDMI input (perhaps it is the same code as "DVI" on the 63 series).

Can someone post the discrete codes here and how to test them? This thread should have its own listing of discrete codes that work for it (I don't want to have to dig through the owners thread for a different set).

Quote:


3. What setting is being used for the screen size (for the 63 series it was "Expand").

I don't understand your question, there are 5 picture sizes
4:3 for sources sending 4:3 content
16:9 for sources sending 16:9 content (including PCs set to 1920x1080)
Zoom1 for zooming in on 4:3 content being sent over 16:9 (non-anamorphic DVDs) or for stretching SD TV to fill screen (why?)
Zoom2 for zooming in more (why?)
Panorama an alternate way of stretching 4:3 content to fill 16:9 (why?)

Quote:


4. Has anyone entered the Service Menu? If so, did you use the same code as with the 63 series?

What are the instructions for doing so?

Quote:


5. Has anyone changed the gamma setting to "0" and is that recommended for these sets?

I don't see any such setting?
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post #186 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Jones_CA View Post

I just noticed that DNIe is off on my set, when I turn on the demo the ON side looks different but the OFF side looks just like it does with the demo off. I thought it was the other way around, does anyone know about turning DNIe on and off?

Wow! You are sure it is off?! This seems completely backwards...(as you said). Can schaffer or anyone else confirm?!
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post #187 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 12:43 PM
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DNIe is only: Demo on or off.
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post #188 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AkaStp View Post

I'm sure he is referring to DNIe Demo being off. There is no DNIe On/Off setting on the new Samsung 67, 68 and 78 models. So, if it there is no DNIe On/Off setting and Samsung are touting DNIe as a great feature then we can only assume that it is always on.

Question 5 in open issues:

5. On the 1080p sets, which inputs have DNIe turned on all of the time. On the HDMI inputs and other inputs (VGA/PC, 1394), is DNIe ON or OFF? Does selecting a specific device type with inputs that have DNIe on all of the time reduce the level of processing (selecting GAME on component, for example)?

I think that the DNIe question needs to be carefully answered for each input.

> Bill
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post #189 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Jones_CA View Post

I just noticed that DNIe is off on my set, when I turn on the demo the ON side looks different but the OFF side looks just like it does with the demo off. I thought it was the other way around, does anyone know about turning DNIe on and off?

The DNIe is always on but the demo mode does more than just turn it off on one side. It goes to an exaggerated version for demo purposes. Depending on your customized picture settings your picture may more closely resemble the "DNIe Off" side, but this does not mean that DNIe is off when the demo is off. It's just a more subtle effect. At first I was pissed that I couldn't turn off DNIe on my 67 series HLR but now it doesn't bother me much. The demo mode sure is a stupid feature and a waste of a button on the remote.

Jon
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post #190 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schaffer970 View Post

DNIe is only: Demo on or off.

No, what I mean is that when I turn the DNIe demo ON, the side of the screen that says ON is different from the same frame of film when DNIe demo is OFF while the side that says OFF is the same as when DNIe is OFF. The side of the demo that says on is clearly sharpened and modified thus when DNIe is OFF then DNIe is in fact off and I don't see how to turn it ON.

I am taking pictures, I'll post them shortly.
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post #191 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 01:00 PM
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Here are my DNIe Demo screencaptures from LOTR:TT. The pictures were carefully taken with the camera on full manual (shutter, aperture, ISO, whitebalance, focus) while my arm was resting on a steady surface and the other hand was operating the remote. I had to be carefull with the shutter as not to get color changes from the darned wheel

I think the results speak for themselves but DNIe On is clearly on the left side of the screen and it is clearly different from with Demo OFF thus DNIe is not functioning on my set.
LL
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post #192 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 01:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonydeluce View Post

Would anyone who has received a HLRxxx8W set and has a Denon DVD-2910
or DVD-3910 please report if they observe any macroblocking. I am particular
interested in the YCbCr 1080i HDMI output of the Denon but would like
to hear feedback on any of the Denon outputs...

Thanks in advance, I would really appreciate it!

I saw a Denon 3910 connected to a HLR5078W yesterday at Magnolia HiFi in San Ramon CA. Magnolia was playing one of the Star Wars DVD in the unit. It was connected to the TV via HDMI. I am planning on going back to day or tomorrow to further investigate what I'm about to report ... so take this as very preliminary information. Because I was working with a very knowledgable Magnolia employee, I didn't check the Denon settings. I plan to go back an carefully go through all of the Denon settings.

There was extensive marcoblocking in picture. I'm not talking about something subtle here. The picture PQ was worthless.

Was it the Denon / Samsung combination? I don't know. Was the Denon setup improperly? I am going to go back and check everything. I'm not planning on using the Denon 2910 or 3910 in my setup, but I have over a 1000 DVD and I absolutely need to see a clean, stable image on the digital connection from a up shifting DVD player.

All of the people in the store realized there was a big problem with the DVD image as it was being displayed from the 3910.

> Bill
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post #193 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Jones_CA View Post

Here are my DNIe Demo screencaptures from LOTR:TT. The pictures were carefully taken with the camera on full manual (shutter, aperture, ISO, whitebalance, focus) while my arm was resting on a steady surface and the other hand was operating the remote. I had to be carefull with the shutter as not to get color changes from the darned wheel

I think the results speak for themselves but DNIe On is clearly on the left side of the screen and it is clearly different from with Demo OFF thus DNIe is not functioning on my set.

I am sorry if you already answered this question above, but what input is your DVD player using? What type of DVD player are you using and what resolution are you sending to the TV?

> Bill
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post #194 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 01:16 PM
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It is off a Sony 400 disc progressive DVD player via component. When I press Info it says I am sending the set 720x480 @ 60Hz.
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post #195 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UCSB View Post

I saw a Denon 3910 connected to a HLR5078W yesterday at Magnolia HiFi in San Ramon CA. Magnolia was playing one of the Star Wars DVD in the unit. It was connected to the TV via HDMI. I am planning on going back to day or tomorrow to further investigate what I'm about to report ... so take this as very preliminary information. Because I was working with a very knowledgable Magnolia employee, I didn't check the Denon settings. I plan to go back an carefully go through all of the Denon settings.

There was extensive marcoblocking in picture. I'm not talking about something subtle here. The picture PQ was worthless.

Was it the Denon / Samsung combination? I don't know. Was the Denon setup improperly? I am going to go back and check everything. I'm not planning on using the Denon 2910 or 3910 in my setup, but I have over a 1000 DVD and I absolutely need to see a clean, stable image on the digital connection from a up shifting DVD player.

All of the people in the store realized there was a big problem with the DVD image as it was being displayed from the 3910.

They didn't happen to have the optical out connected somewhere where you could check if it was getting 5.1 did they?!
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post #196 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Jones_CA View Post

Can someone post the discrete codes here and how to test them? This thread should have its own listing of discrete codes that work for it (I don't want to have to dig through the owners thread for a different set).

I don't understand your question, there are 5 picture sizes
4:3 for sources sending 4:3 content
16:9 for sources sending 16:9 content (including PCs set to 1920x1080)
Zoom1 for zooming in on 4:3 content being sent over 16:9 (non-anamorphic DVDs) or for stretching SD TV to fill screen (why?)
Zoom2 for zooming in more (why?)
Panorama an alternate way of stretching 4:3 content to fill 16:9 (why?)


I don't see any such setting?

As for the codes, Do you have a pronto remote? If so, you can download the configuration file from remotecentral.com

The picture size options will depend on your input. Are you using HDMI or component? The ones you mentioned seem like the component picture sizes. HDMI, at least on the 63 series, was different and had settings for 4:3, Wide and Expand.

The gamma setting is in the service menu.

Rich S
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post #197 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UCSB View Post

I saw a Denon 3910 connected to a HLR5078W yesterday at Magnolia HiFi in San Ramon CA. Magnolia was playing one of the Star Wars DVD in the unit. It was connected to the TV via HDMI. I am planning on going back to day or tomorrow to further investigate what I'm about to report ... so take this as very preliminary information. Because I was working with a very knowledgable Magnolia employee, I didn't check the Denon settings. I plan to go back an carefully go through all of the Denon settings.

There was extensive marcoblocking in picture. I'm not talking about something subtle here. The picture PQ was worthless.

Was it the Denon / Samsung combination? I don't know. Was the Denon setup improperly? I am going to go back and check everything. I'm not planning on using the Denon 2910 or 3910 in my setup, but I have over a 1000 DVD and I absolutely need to see a clean, stable image on the digital connection from a up shifting DVD player.

All of the people in the store realized there was a big problem with the DVD image as it was being displayed from the 3910.

The Denon 3910 uses a scaler chip with a known bug that produces
macroblocking on many displays - I saw it on the Mits 1080p / 2910
combo and I have observed it with my 3910 and JVC D-ILA combo.

Looks like I will probably be upgrading my DVD player soon...

 

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post #198 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMSko View Post

As for the codes, Do you have a pronto remote? If so, you can download the configuration file from remotecentral.com

The picture size options will depend on your input. Are you using HDMI or component? The ones you mentioned seem like the component picture sizes. HDMI, at least on the 63 series, was different and had settings for 4:3, Wide and Expand.

The gamma setting is in the service menu.

Thanks, I didn't know that the options changed, I am using component, my HDMI DVD player isn't here yet.

I thought there was a list of all the commands and a digit code for that command in human readable format so we could look it over and see what was possible. I don't have a universal remote yet, I just wanted to see the language understood by the TV.

I haven't been in the service menu yet...
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post #199 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 01:44 PM
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USCB,

I have been able to minimize the macroblocking by adjusting brightness and
contrast on my JVC and using the following settings on the Denon DVD-3910:

IRE=7.5 ( click on picture adjust and scroll to the farthest right selection to set )

HDMI / DVI Black level set to NORMAL ( 'enhanced' really mucks it up )

and select HDMI 1080i YCbCr for format / output

Thanks,

Tony

 

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post #200 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by profjoe View Post

They didn't happen to have the optical out connected somewhere where you could check if it was getting 5.1 did they?!

No.

> Bill
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post #201 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Jones_CA View Post

I think the results speak for themselves but DNIe On is clearly on the left side of the screen and it is clearly different from with Demo OFF thus DNIe is not functioning on my set.

Crank the sharpness and contrast way up to the max and go to Dynamic mode. I think you'll find that your nomal picture is a lot closer to "Demo On". If not, making service mode changes to Gamma (higher) may get you closer if you like that sort of thing. I'm glad that the picture on my 67 series looks more like the Demo Off side but to each his own. Just some thoughts after noticing the same thing with demo mode on my TV.

Jon
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post #202 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 02:46 PM
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tonydeluce,
I have only watched pieces of Appollo 13 and Pirates of the Carribean on the new set as I have been adjusting sound, colors, etc but so far I have not seen anything I would attribute to macroblocking issues. The astronauts space suits (mostly all white obviously) with red and blue used as trims looks absolutely spectacular. There are many dark space scenes in which the space ship is turning and rocking and rolling and those scenes are very crisp, at least to me. I will also change to YCbCr tonight.
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post #203 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlk_250 View Post

Crank the sharpness and contrast way up to the max and go to Dynamic mode. I think you'll find that your nomal picture is a lot closer to "Demo On". If not, making service mode changes to Gamma (higher) may get you closer if you like that sort of thing. I'm glad that the picture on my 67 series looks more like the Demo Off side but to each his own. Just some thoughts after noticing the same thing with demo mode on my TV.

Jon

So if by making variable adjustments we can move from a picture that looks just like DNIe Off to DNIe on and beyond on either side than it isn't orthogonal to other picture settings (contrast, sharpness, etc) than what does turning it on or off mean?

How do I get into the service menu?
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post #204 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 02:52 PM
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[quote]
I think the DNIe option is only for ON / OFF of the demo in which you see a side by side comparison of DNIe on or off. I don't think you have the option to turn it off, just the demo.
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post #205 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 02:58 PM
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I finally pulled the trigger on the TVA 56" Sammy. I have been drooling over the 61" for some time BUT the price diff on the 56" was enough to make me pull back.

The great thing about TVA (Cambryn) is if I get buyers remorse on the size I can "upgrade" to the bigger one by paying the difference.

This TV is replacing a Toshiba 57" HX81.
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post #206 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 02:59 PM
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[quote=Maddogs]
Quote:


I think the DNIe option is only for ON / OFF of the demo in which you see a side by side comparison of DNIe on or off. I don't think you have the option to turn it off, just the demo.

I know that, but my point is that you can make the picture with the Demo OFF look just like it does on EITHER half of the screen with the Demo ON (called DNIe On and DNIe Off respectively) thus 'turning DNIe on' or 'turning DNIe off' is just a matter of setting the other normal controls of your set to the appropriate values. You can also set your parameters so that it looks somewhere between the two in the demo...
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post #207 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonydeluce View Post

The Denon 3910 uses a scaler chip with a known bug that produces
macroblocking on many displays - I saw it on the Mits 1080p / 2910
combo and I have observed it with my 3910 and JVC D-ILA combo.

Looks like I will probably be upgrading my DVD player soon...

Macroblocking can be attributed to several causes. Me thinks its the extensive digital signal processing of both the Denon and these pseudo "1080p" displays. That is these new displays pull many tricks to achieve what they do. The tricks have side effects. From reading what is already known, the issues include macroblocking and/or pixelization, artifacting and time delay isssues
Video only has 8 bits of dynamic range it needs to be preserved and not distorted by the display.

Tony, I use two Genesis based players a Panasonic S97 and a Denon 1910, both use the digital output and are even scaled by my Sony LCD projectors. There is NO macroblocking or artifacts. Zippo!

So rather than "upgrading" your dvd player you just might want to consider upgrading from the new Samsungs. Newer does not always equate to better.
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post #208 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

Macroblocking can be attributed to several causes. Me thinks its the extensive digital signal processing of both the Denon and these pseudo "1080p" displays. That is these new displays pull many tricks to achieve what they do. The tricks have side effects. From reading what has already know, the issues are macroblocking and/or pixelization and artifacting.
Video only has 8 bits of dynamic range it needs to be preserved and not distorted by the display.

Tony, I use two Genesis based players a Panasonic S97 and a Denon 1910, both use the digital output and are even scaled by my Sony LCD projectors. There is NO macroblocking or artifacts. Zippo!

So rather than "upgrading" your dvd player you just might want to consider upgrading from the new Samsungs. Newer does not always equate to better.

Reincarnate,

I first thought you were a serious intelligent AV hobbist who sincerely wanted
to objectively discuss equipment. But you have proved yourself to be otherwise.
The macroblocking occurs on my JVC D-ILA and many other displays and is
a function of a chip used in the Denon 1910/2910/3910/5900 DVD players and
many others. This chip provides the sharpest picture to date but does have the
MB problem on many displays.

Best regards,

Tony

P.S. The chip is the Faroudja FLI-2310 Decoding Engine - research your info a little
bit and you might have something worth reading..

 

Panasonic 65GT50 1080p 3D Plasma TV

Integra DTC-9.8 prepro - Panasonic BDT500 BD Player

Velodyne HGS-15X Subwoofer

Cinenova Grande 3 ( 600W x 3 )
Polk LSi15 x 2, LSIC

Polk LC265i x 3
 

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post #209 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Jones_CA View Post

So if by making variable adjustments we can move from a picture that looks just like DNIe Off to DNIe on and beyond on either side than it isn't orthogonal to other picture settings (contrast, sharpness, etc) than what does turning it on or off mean?

How do I get into the service menu?

If the 68 series is similar to the 67 series in regards to the DNIe issues and the service menu (which I'm assuming it is), then these posts might be of some use to people who want to access, understand, and/or change service menu settings:

Thread 545452
Thread 546848
Thread 543222
(Don't have 5 posts yet, so I can't directly link...)

You should be able to access the service menu by hitting Mute, 1, 8, 2, Power.

It's interesting that several people have said that turning the sharpness down to 0 reduces the effects of DNIe. I currently have a 5667, but I'm taking it back and upgrading to the 5668 or 6168, so I'm very interested to see if the issues can be addressed by the time I get my set. On a personal note, changing the gamma to 0 in the service menu, and changing the target white point to D65K(313, 329) (so that standard mode matched movie mode's grayscale) definitely made an improvement on my 67's PQ.
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post #210 of 12093 Old 07-21-2005, 03:25 PM
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I picked up my Scientific Atlanta 8000 HD (DVR and digital cable box) today from Comcast. I'm expecting my 6168 on Monday. It has a DVI on the back of the box, but the manual says this port is for future use and may or may not be active. Comcast provided component cables. Anyone know or have an opinion if I can use the DVI to connect to the 6168? I read people online that were ripping this unit, but also heard that software upgrades have corrected a lot of problems. Should I expect signal degradation going through the DVR? How are most people connecting their cable boxes to their TV's? Are there a lot of HD-DVR users? I might give up DVR functionality if the PQ is reduced.
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