Samsung 1080p Owner's Thread --- HLRxxx8W DLP Models - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 12:42 AM - Thread Starter
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The 1080p Samsung DLP's are shipping from TV Authority and are in inventory at stores like Magnolia HiFi!!! It is time to start an owner's thread so that owners of the HLRxx68W, HLRxx78W, and HLR5688W can discuss their experiences with these great TV's.

1080p is a new format for Samsung DLP so there should be a lot to discuss. Post your thoughts on how the TV's are performing, ask for technical help, share tweaks, and help us investigate and resolve any open issues that we still have about these TV.


Some other useful 2005 Samsung DLP threads:
General 2005 Samsung DLP --- HLRxxxxW Models: CLICK HERE
720p 2005 Samsung DLP --- HLRxx67W Models: CLICK HERE
720p 2005 Samsung DLP --- HLR5087W Model (Pedestal Model): CLICK HERE

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post #2 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 12:43 AM - Thread Starter
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*** 1080P Models (1920x1080 Screen Resolution) ***
=================================


There will be TWO cosmetic versions of the tabletop models. One version, the 78 series, will have a black lacquer bezel and will be sold by higher-end retailers and custom installers. The other version, the 68 series, will have a floating screen design and is believed to be targeted at larger chain stores like BestBuy. The internals of both lines are equivalent, the case (and offered screen sizes) is the only difference. In fact, Samsung has lead us to believe that the internal components on the 68 series, 78 series, and the 88 series pedestal model are all based on the same technology.



<<>>
Photos by TetsujinWave


TABLETOP MODEL >>> HLRxx78W --- 78 Series --- Black Lacquer Screen Design

HLRxx78W Series Brochure: CLICK HERE


71" -- HLR7178W (July 2005, MSRP guess $6,799) Spec Sheet
61" -- HLR6178W (July 2005, MSRP guess $4,799) Spec Sheet
56" -- HLR5678W (July 2005, MSRP guess $4,499) Spec Sheet
50" -- HLR5078W (July 2005, MSRP guess $3,999) Spec Sheet


PLEASE NOTE - 71" HLR7178W replaces previously listed HLR7078W, the HLR7078W will not be produced. I will leave the photos of the 70" below because they should approximate the 71".
  • 1080p (1920x1080) Resolution
  • Black Lacquer Screen Design, Anti-glare Matte Screen Finish
  • Cinema Smooth Generation 6 (Light Engine), DNIe (Video Enhancement)
  • Dynamic Black Level - Mechanical Iris to control light and improve Contrast Ratio
  • Inputs: 2 HDMI , 2 Component Video, 1 S-Video, 2 Composite
  • Inputs: VGA/PC (1920x1080@60Hz)
  • Inputs: 2 IEEE 1394 DTV Link (SOURCE)
  • HDMI Supported Inputs: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i (1080p will NOT be offered)
  • Digital Audio Out (optical)
  • ATSC Tuner / NTSC Tuner, Digital Cable Ready with CableCARD
  • TV Guide Electronic Program Guide (SOURCE) (GEMSTAR TV Guide + GOLD Demo)
  • AnyNET (A Serial Connection Between Samsung Components That Allows Integrated Control Via Your Remote Control)
  • DNSe (Dynamic Natural Sound), 30 Watts, Internal Speakers
  • DLP Chip: per Samsung, Latest 1080p (xHD4 (.85" 1080p) --- neither Samsung nor TI are discussing chips, this is our best guess given available information)
  • DLP Chip Operation: 960 x 1080 mirrors, each mirror quickly moves to produces 2 pixels displayed on the screen yielding a 1920x1080 final resolution; pixels are diamond shaped and slightly overlap, producing a smooth pixel free image
  • Contrast Ratio: up to 10,000:1
  • Brightness (cd/m-sq): 71"=500, 61"=600, 56"=700, 50"=800
  • Lamp (Standard/Dynamic Display Setting): 71"=(120W/132W); 50", 56", 61"=(100W/120W)
  • Color Wheel: 7 Segment, 10,800 RPM
  • Power Consumption: 230 Watts (Estimated)
  • NO Center Channel Shelf
HLRxx78W Series OWNERS MANUAL: CLICK HERE

Measurements: Thanks Kirk@TVauthority!!!
  1. HL-R5078W 46.5 x 14.0 x 34.3 -- 50" -- 75.6 lbs.
  2. HL-R5678W 52.4 x 15.3 x 37.9 -- 56" -- 84.9 lbs
  3. HL-R6178W 56.9 x 18.4 x 41.6 -- 61" -- 99.2 lbs (includes removable pedestal base)
  4. HL-R7178W 65.8 x 20.4 x 46.8 -- 71" -- 116.8 lbs (includes removable pedestal base)
  5. FOR STAND DIMENSIONS AND WEIGHTS - CHECK SPEC SHEET LINK ABOVE
Measurements (without Pedestal Base):
  1. HL-R6178W 56.9 x 16.5 x 41.6 -- 61" -- 99.2 lbs.
  2. HL-R7178W 65.8 x 18.7 x 45.9 -- 71" -- 116.8 lbs.
Technical Drawings: Thanks Kirk@TVauthority!!!
  1. HL-R5078W - Technical Drawing
  2. HL-R5678W - Technical Drawing
  3. HL-R6178W - Technical Drawing
  4. HL-R7178W - Technical Drawing Not Available Yet
78 Series Photos --- Black Lacquer Design --- Thanks TetsujinWave --- Click on Link

50" -- HLR5078W -- Photo #1 -- Photo #2 -- Photo #3 -- Photo #4 -- Placecard
56" -- HLR5678W -- Photo #1 -- Photo #2 -- Photo #3 -- Placecard
61" -- HLR6178W -- Photo #1
70" -- HLR7078W -- Photo #1 -- Photo #2 -- Photo #3 -- Photo #4 -- Photo #5
70" -- HLR7078W -- Photo #6 -- Photo #7 -- Photo #8 -- Photo #9 -- Photo#10
70" -- HLR7078W -- Photo#11 -- Photo#12 -- Photo#13 -- Placecard -- Poster
Rear Inputs --- CLICK HERE

Background: 1080p vs 720p Comparison -- Series 78 Poster -- Technical Discussion, Screen Shots, Photos
Background: TI DLP Brochure for Winter 2005 -- TI DLP Presentation




<<>>
Photo by TetsujinWave, KyungKim


TABLETOP MODEL >>> HLRxx68W --- 68 Series --- Floating Screen Design

HLRxx68W Series Brochure: CLICK HERE

67" -- HLR6768W (July 2005, MSRP $6,199) Spec Sheet
61" -- HLR6168W (July 2005, MSRP $4,799) Spec Sheet
56" -- HLR5668W (July 2005, MSRP $4,499) Spec Sheet
  • 1080p (1920x1080) Resolution
  • Floating Screen Design, Anti-glare Matte Screen Finish
  • Cinema Smooth Generation 6 (Light Engine), DNIe (Video Enhancement)
  • Dynamic Black Level - Mechanical Iris to control light and improve Contrast Ratio
  • Inputs: 2 HDMI , 2 Component Video, 1 S-Video, 2 Composite
  • Inputs: VGA/PC (1920x1080@60Hz)
  • Inputs: 2 IEEE 1394 DTV Link (SOURCE)
  • HDMI Supported Inputs: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i (1080p will NOT be offered)
  • Digital Audio Out (optical)
  • ATSC Tuner / NTSC Tuner, Digital Cable Ready with CableCARD
  • TV Guide Electronic Program Guide (SOURCE) (GEMSTAR TV Guide + GOLD Demo)
  • AnyNET (A Serial Connection Between Samsung Components That Allows Integrated Control Via Your Remote Control)
  • 30 Watts, Internal Speakers
  • DLP Chip: per Samsung, Latest 1080p (xHD4 (.85" 1080p) --- neither Samsung nor TI are discussing chips, this is our best guess given available information)
  • DLP Chip Operation: 960 x 1080 mirrors, each mirror quickly moves to produces 2 pixels displayed on the screen yielding a 1920x1080 final resolution; pixels are diamond shaped and slightly overlap, producing a smooth pixel free image
  • Contrast Ratio: up to 10,000:1
  • Brightness (cd/m-sq): 67"=550, 61"=600, 56"=700
  • Lamp (Standard/Dynamic Display Setting): 67"=(120W/132W); 56", 61"=(100W/120W)
  • Color Wheel: 7 Segment, 10,800 RPM
  • Power Consumption: 230 Watts (Estimated)
  • NO Center Channel Shelf
HLRxx68W Series OWNERS MANUAL: CLICK HERE

Measurements: Thanks Kirk@TVauthority!!!
  1. HL-R5668W 52.4 x 15.3 x 37.9 -- 56" -- 80.9 lbs
  2. HL-R6168W 56.9 x 18.4 x 41.6 -- 61" -- 99.6 lbs. (includes removable pedestal base)
  3. HL-R6768W 62.4 x 19.8 x 45.1 -- 67" -- 109.8 (includes removable pedestal base)
Measurements (without Pedestal Base):
  1. HL-R6168W 56.9 x 16.5 x 40.7 -- 61" -- 99.6 lbs.
  2. HL-R6768W 62.4 x 17.8 x 44.3 -- 67" -- 109.8 lbs
Technical Drawings: Thanks Kirk@TVauthority!!!
  1. HL-R5668W - Technical Drawing
  2. HL-R6168W - Technical Drawing
  3. HL-R6768W - Technical Drawing
68 Series Photos --- Floating Screen Design --- Thanks KyungKim, TetsujinWave --- Click on Link

56" -- HLR5668W -- Photo #1 (Good For Depth, Shape) -- Photo #2 -- Photo #3
56" -- HLR5668W -- Placecard
61" -- HLR6168W -- Photo #1 -- Photo #2 -- Photo #3 -- Photo #4 -- Photo #5
61" -- HLR6168W -- Photo #6 -- Photo #7 -- Photo #8 -- Photo #9 (Shows Stabilization Base)
61" -- HLR6168W -- Photo#10 -- Placecard
67" -- HLR6768W -- Photo #1 -- Photo #2 -- Placecard
Rear Inputs --- CLICK HERE


Background: Floating Screen Close-up -- Series 68 Poster
Photos of Internal Components: CLICK HERE
Video: VIDEO (Warning: C/Net's Price and CableCard Comments are in ERROR)
High Resolution PHOTO (1.25 MB, Excellent): HiRes Photo / LowRes Preview Photo





Photo by Samsung


PEDESTAL MODEL >>> 88 Series

56"
-- HLR5688W (July 2005, $5,199) Spec Sheet
  • 1080p (1920x1080) Resolution
  • Cinema Smooth Generation 6 (Light Engine), DNIe (Video Enhancement)
  • Dynamic Black Level - Mechanical Iris to control light and improve Contrast Ratio
  • Anti-glare Matte Screen Finish
  • Inputs: 2 HDMI, 2 Component Video, 1 S-Video, 2 Composite
  • Inputs: VGA/PC (1920x1080@60Hz)
  • Inputs: IEEE 1394 DTV Link (unconfirmed)
  • Digital Audio Out (optical)
  • HDMI Supported Inputs: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i (1080p will NOT be offered)
  • ATSC Tuner / NTSC Tuner, Digital Cable Ready with CableCARD
  • TV Guide Electronic Program Guide (GEMSTAR TV Guide + GOLD Demo)
  • AnyNET (A Serial Connection Between Samsung Components That Allows Integrated Control Via Your Remote Control)
  • 30 Watts, Internal Speakers
  • DLP Chip: xHD4 (.85" 1080p)
  • DLP Chip Operation: 960 x 1080 mirrors, each mirror quickly moves to produces 2 pixels displayed on the screen yielding a 1920x1080 final resolution; pixels are diamond shaped and slightly overlap, producing a smooth pixel free image
  • Contrast Ratio: up to 10,000:1
  • Color Wheel: 7 Segment
  • Power Consumption: 230 Watts
  • NO Center Channel Shelf

HLR5688W OWNERS MANUAL: CLICK HERE
Online OWNERS MANUAL: CLICK HERE


Measurements: HL-R5688W, 58.7 x 21.9 x 58.4
Measurements: of the CURRENT HLP5685, 58.7"(W) x 58.3"(H) x 21.9"(D)


88 Series Photos --- Pedestal Screen Design --- Click on Link

56" -- HLR5688W (Photo appears to be of 50" model) -- Photo #1 -- Photo #2
High Resolution PHOTO (1.25 MB, Excellent): HiRes Photo / LowRes Preview Photo

> Bill
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post #3 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 12:43 AM - Thread Starter
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The issues that are listed below are the issues that we currently are still investigating. Please feel free to suggest new open issues. Hopefully, we will be able to answer all of the questions below over the next few weeks.

====================

What we DON'T KNOW so far:

1. What computer resolutions are supported on the 68, 78, and 88 series sets on the HDMI input(1920x1080?)? Specifically, does it support 1080i or 1080p?

>> ANSWER: It is better to use the PC/VGA input for computers.

2. Will the internal ATSC tuner or CableCard tuner support the future 1080p broadcast format on the 1080p units?

>> ANSWER: Yes.

3. What capabilities does the 1394 port have to support 1080p? Specifically, if the internal tuner can support broadcast 1080p/24, can this be output via the 1394 port? Could a 1080p signal be input via the 1394 port?

4. Will Samsung provide any method (USB port/PC, Memory Cards) for customers to apply firmware upgrades to the new 1080p HDTVs? There are two other manufacturers that currently provide this capability for their DLP sets.

>> ANSWER: No, not at this point in time.

5. On the 1080p sets, which inputs have DNIe turned on all of the time. On the HDMI inputs and other inputs (VGA/PC, 1394), is DNIe ON or OFF? Does selecting a specific device type with inputs that have DNIe on all of the time reduce the level of processing (selecting GAME on component, for example)?

6. Will 1080p sets support multichannel audio (5.1) on the HDMI inputs? 720p sets only support 2 channels and this prevents a multichannel pass through to a receiver. This is important to manage sync in some situations.

>> ANSWER: No, 2 channel PCM audio only.


Items We Would Like To Test, But Need To Wait Until HDTV's Are Released:

1. Do the remote control IR discrete codes work for ALL inputs?

>> ANSWER: HLP control codes work on the HLR models, but Samsung has not released discrete codes for the new inputs (HDMI 2, etc.). If anyone gets a comprehensive list of discrete codes please PM me, I will post them here.

2. Given the increased video processing demands of 1080p, what is the capability of the 68/78/88 series 1080p sets to handle computer/video gaming? Specifically, what is lag?

>> ANSWER: There is a small amount of lag in video gaming. All games appear to be playable except the most demanding, split second games.

3. Given the increased video processing required in the 1080p units (68, 78, 88 Series), what steps has Samsung taken to insure that we don't see lip sync issues? Did anyone ask specifically about this concern?

>> ANSWER: Given the large number of possible source components and external audio processing options, lip sync problems will be an issue. I recommend either a AV receiver with an audio delay for each input (it would be nice if these could be adjusted easily, when needed). If your receiver does not have this function, I recommend an external audio delay component. The $230 Felston DD540 appears to be an excellent solution: CLICK HERE

4. Will 1080p be supported on the HDMI input on the 1080p models (68, 78, 88 series)? All of our information collected up to this point indicates that it won't, but it is an important item and many of us hope Samsung will find a way to include it in the final production sets. It should be checked when the sets are released.

>> ANSWER: No, 1080p will not be supported on the HDMI input.

5. How will SD broadcasts look on the 1080p sets? How will this compare to SD broadcasts on 720p sets?

>> ANSWER: These sets do an exceptional job of handling SD broadcasts. The internal tuners allow you to FINE TUNE reception on SD broadcast and this makes a huge difference. Fine tuning setting are memorized and do not have to be redone once they are initially set.

6. How will standard DVD's look on the 1080p sets? How will standard DVD's look after being upshifted by the better upshifting DVD players in comparison to standard DVD on the 720p sets? Is there any advantage to the new 1080p sets when playing standard DVD's?

ANSWER: Standard DVD's look superb on the 1080p sets, better than on 720p sets because these TV's outperform 720p sets.

7. In selecting a DVD player, will you get a better quality picture if you send the 1080p HDTV a 480i digital feed and let the TV do all of the processing OR by using a upshifting DVD player to send a 1080i digital signal that is deinterlaced to 1080p?

>> ANSWER: Tested this with the Sony DVP-NS975V and found that 480i and 1080i via HDMI were very similar. I left my player setup to 1080i.

8. When setting up a given input, such as HDMI or Component 1, does the processing associated with the input change when you select a different descriptive name for the input (such as GAME, DVD, HD STB, etc.)?

>> ANSWER: Yes, input name will affect performance of input. Especially, GAME for video gaming.

9. Can you get 1:1 pixel mapping of a computer input on the PC/VGA input (at 1920x1080)? On HDMI? If so, how exactly is it setup and what picture mode do you use?

>> ANSWER: 1:1 pixel mapping is possible on the PC/VGA input (but, may result in slight overscan). HDMI input is not recommended for PC input. See thread for suggestions of computer connection.

10. What results have been observed with various DVD players (Samsung DVD-HD950, etc.)?

>> ANSWER: See POST #4 below for reviews of the four most popular models.

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post #4 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 12:44 AM - Thread Starter
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DVD Player Compatibility Testing Results

I have taken a look at the OPPO OPDV971H, Samsung DVD-HD950, Panasonic DVD-S97 and Sony DVP-NS975V. I hope to continue my testing with other players and hope to be able to report on the Pioneer DV59-AVi or it's successor the DV79-AVi.

The intent of my work was not to document every feature of these players. You can check the user's manuals and manufacturer web sites for that information. I also can not test the players in the manner that Secrets of Home Theater can. So I would recommend that you review their work at this address: CLICK HERE . Please note, based on my testing, both the OPPO and Sony reviews are outdated on the Secrets site because they are based on earlier versions of the players or their firmware. My intent is also not to duplicate or replace the thousands of comments on avsForum by members in the OPPO, Sony, and Samsung threads.

So what am I trying to do? Quite simply, I am trying to see how these players operate with the new Samsung 1080p DLP's and by extension how they might work with the many new 1080p DLP HDTV's coming out during the next few months. I was trying to find the best one or two players for my own HT setup. I also hope that my work will help you narrow the field down to the players that will match your own unique HT setup. You still have to do your own research, but hopefully this work will get you started.

Why did I start with these four players? Well, these four players are based on three different chip technologies. These technologies include Genesis Faroujda (OPPO, Panasonic), Zoran (Samsung), and Sony proprietary (Sony). I still hope to get a chance to look at the Pioneer players, but I am still working on that as I write this summary.

I was looking for compatibility with 1080p HDTV's and the Samsung's in particular. I defined compatibility to include both picture quality (PQ) and other features designed to make up for deficiencies in the Samsung 1080p sets. These additional features included an AV sync function (to overcome any lip sync issues) and flexible audio control to allow sending audio to both the TV and an AV receiver (giving you the option of using either setup). The ability to route the right sound to the TV or a receiver is required because the Samsung can not pass through DD/DTS 5.1 audio via HDMI.

What were the results of my observations? I can recommend the OPPO, Panasonic and SONY. But, unfortunately I can not recommend the Samsung at this point in time. Please read my comments on each player below to understand which player is the best match to your own HT environment and viewing preferences.

The DVD experience on the new 1080p Samsungs is exceptional. There were some initial questions about whether movies would look better or worst on the new 1080p sets. In my opinion, movies look significantly better on the new 1080p sets than on my Samsung HLN 720p set.

All of my tests were done on my HLR5668W using STANDARD picture mode with the TV's picture mode set to their defaults. DVE was used to setup each DVD player and all picture settings were fine tuned on the DVD player. ONLY the DVI / HDMI output on each player and 1080i was tested on this initial set of tests.

If there is interest, I can post photos of the Sony/OPPO/Panasonic remotes or units.

========

DVD Player: OPPO
Chip Technology: Genesis FLI-2310 Deinterlacer, Mediatek MPEG decoder
Firmware: 29 June 2005
List Price: $199
Web Site: http://www.oppodigital.com/

Overall Performance:
>HLRxxx8W Compatibility (Low, Med, High): High
>HLRxxx8W Performance Impression (Low, Med, High): High

Output Resolution Tested: 1080i
Other Resolutions Offered (via HDMI): 480p, 720p

Basic Tests:
> Blacker-Than-Black: Passed.
> Macroblocking: Yes, but generally not present or not significant.

Important Features to Enhance HLRxxx8W Performance:
1. A/V sync capability (up to 50 ms, 10 ms increments). It would have been nice if this delay could have been up to 100 or 120 ms. ADDED: OPPO Digital recently stated that would like to increase the A/V sync capability from 50 ms to 120 ms. ... if they can implement this extension in the next firmware upgrade it will be a great enhancement!!!
2. Ability to send audio to TV via RCA cables *AND* send DD/DTS to your receiver via digital cable. This allows you to use either your TV audio or the receiver audio without making any adjustments to your DVD player. Excellent control over signals going to TV and receiver.


Nice Features:
1. Clear, sharp, nice picture. This player has an exceptional picture, only degraded occasionally by macroblocking.
2. Good build quality (nice front panel display, nice finish, gold plated inputs). The player has a nice simple, streamlined two tone look.
3. Clear, easy to read setup menus. This player offers exceptional granularity on settings (offering up to 20 steps on some). In addition, this player offered more control over picture and sound than any other player reviewed. The OPPO offered control over settings that other players did not allow you to control. Please review manual for all setup menu options. ADDED: The Panasonic S97 also offers extensive picture control and granularity.
4. The player has a nice very readable blue front panel display plus many front panel display control options. In addition, the player has blue accent lights for all control buttons. I really like this feature because it allows me to identify and operate the player in my cabinet in low light! They can be turned off in the setup menu if you find them distracting.
6. Good controls for navigating in movies.
7. The remote is light and small making it easy to use. Some buttons are small and hard to read in low light, no backlighting. But, all important functions (and many unique, nice functions) are available and would be easy to transfer to any universal remote.
8. The player includes a quality DVI - HDMI cable that performed well.
9. The OPPO has without a doubt one of the nicest convenience features I have ever seen ... when you put a DVD in the unit, a message comes up on the screen saying loading ... when that message changed to DVD-video, press menu and you skip ahead to the DVD's main menu!!!!! You don't have to sit through all warnings and other filler that can take forever to get through. Thank you OPPO!

Problem Areas:
1. Occasional macroblocking.
2. No disc play position memory. This is a convenient feature offered on the other players.
2. Audio / video sync setting only goes to 50 ms. It would have been nice if it went higher, perhaps to 100 ms or 120 ms.


Comments:

I really like this DVD player. It is one of the highest rated DVD players ever on Secrets of Home Theater. It offers an exceptional sharp, clear picture that is compelling and addictive. The picture is only degraded by occasional macroblocking. Macroblocking seems to be a problem with all of the Genesis FLI-23xx based players, including Denon's players and the Panasonic S97 (see notes 1 & 2 below). This player is an enthusiast's player in that it offers comprehensive setup control for picture and sound. You will have more control with this player over your final viewing experience than with other competing players (ADDED: Panasonic S97, last player reviewed, also offers extensive control over picture setup).

Since most people buying this player will be ordering it via the internet (http://www.oppodigital.com/), I would like to briefly comment on how it is shipped. It is shipped double boxed in a nice box. It is well protected during shipment by Styrofoam packaging. The player is wrapped in a blue OPPO sleeve that is soft and impressed me. It shouts we care about this player and your ownership experience. Nice job OPPO.



(1) To minimize macroblocking care should be taken to setup the player and TV correctly.
(2) I still hope to test the Denon and Panasonic players to determine the degree of macroblocking on these players.



=======


DVD Player: Sony DVP-NS975V
Chip Technology: Sony Proprietary CDX9304
Firmware: 1.90 (procedure to check firmware level in service menu ... with the power off to the unit; press TOP MENU,CLEAR,then POWER on the remote.)
List Price: $299

Overall Performance:
>HLRxxx8W Compatibility (Low, Med, High): High
>HLRxxx8W Performance Impression (Low, Med, High): High

Output Resolution Tested: 1080i
Other Resolutions Offered (via HDMI): 480i, 480p, 720p

Basic Tests:
> Blacker-Than-Black: Passed (manual picture settings, Cinema1, Cinema 2)
> Macroblocking: None

Important Features to Enhance HLRxxx8W Performance:
1. Ability to send PCM digital audio to TV over HDMI *AND* send DD/DTS to your receiver. This allows you to use either your TV audio or the receiver audio without making any adjustments to your DVD player.
2. Six PQ modes (standard, dynamic 1, dynamic 2, cinema 1, cinema 2, manual) that are accessible through a single button on the remote. Only manual is adjustable. I really like this PQ feature. Think of this feature like the picture modes in your DLP (ie. movie, standard, custom, and dynamic).
3. A/V sync capability (up to 100 ms, 10 ms increments). This feature does not work if you output Dolby Digital and/or DTS to your receiver ... so it will not solve the sync problems between the TV and receiver.

Nice Features:
1. Sharp, nice picture. Low levels of video noise.
2. Quality look, build (aluminum front panel, gold plated inputs).
3. Clear, easy to read setup menus.
4. Organized, easy to use control menu that is accessible during DVD play. These menus are large and clearly labeled. Plus a simple, elapsed time (and remaining time) only menu for quick checks of where you are in a movie. Nice.
5. Many front panel display brightness control options allowing you to tailor the visual look of the unit's display to virtually any desired mode of operation.
6. Instant replay, instant skip forward. Plus scan back / forward.
7. Manual picture settings (brightness, .).
8. Placement of HDMI input and digital audio connections makes access easy in cabinet.
9. HDMI output supports 12 bit connection. 12 bit/108 MHz internal video processing.
10. 40 disc play position memory.
11. The player has a single button function called Picture Navigator that brings up 9 scenes at a time and lets you branch directly to the scene. Nice, like a built in chapter select from the DVD's own menu. Unique.
12. Nice remote. Some buttons are small and hard to read in low light, no backlighting. But, all important functions (and many unique, nice functions) are available and would be easy to transfer to any universal remote.

Problem Areas:
1. Several users have reported reliability problems with EARLIER versions of this player. A model revision and firmware upgrades have since been implemented. But, buyers will have $250 - $325 (plus cables) invested in this player and will expect reliability.
2. Available in silver only, this player makes a strong style statement that may or may not match your other equipment.
3. Not really a problem, but the player does not include a HDMI cable so you will have to buy one. Other players (OPPO, Samsung) include a cable with the player.
4. AV alignment (sync) feature does not work on dolby digital and DTS being output to your receiver, only with PCM output. This is a disappointment.


Comments:

I really liked this DVD player. It offered a huge number of convenient and thoughtful features that gave the user excellent control over navigation, configuration, and viewing. The player exhibited no macroblocking and extremely low video noise levels. This resulted in a smooth, sharp, and stable picture. I would give the 975 the edge on overall PQ in this review of four players because of the lack of macroblocking. The OPPO and Panasonic pictures were as nice or nicer, but their overall score on my testing had to be lower because of their very occassional macroblocking. Secrets of Home Theater rated this (or an earlier version of this player) lower than the OPPO and Panasonic; you may want to read the their comments before making a purchasing decision (aspects of the review seem outdated to me). If you are comparing the two Genesis players to the Sony DVP-NS975V on Secrets of Home Theater, you will notice the Sony got a lower rating. This was because at the time of the Secrets testing the Sony did not pass BTB. Please be aware that the 975 (firmware 1.90) passes BTB in Manual, Cinema 1, and Cinema 2 modes so it's rating would be now be higher. Failure to pass BTB was Secrets only major problem with the player. The 975 did fail my chroma tests, but I did not see any problems with this flaw in over 60 hours of DVD video reviewed. I'm not a DVD player testing facility, but the picture looked really nice to me. The convenience features on this player can not be beat (but, the Panasonic S97 also has an extensive and comparable set of convenience features).

One final note, this player offers 480i output over HDMI. I have done a little initial testing on the capability, but I'm not ready to report in it at this point in time. It is a unique feature.



========


DVD Player: Samsung DVD-HD950
Firmware: n/a
List Price: $249

Overall Performance:
>HLRxxx8W Compatibility (Low, Med, High): Med
>HLRxxx8W Performance Impression (Low, Med, High): Low/Med

Output Resolution Tested: 1080i
Other Resolutions Offered (via HDMI): 480p, 720p

Basic Tests:
> Blacker-Than-Black: No
> Macroblocking: None

Important Features to Enhance HLRxxx8W Performance:
1. Samsung's Anynet is a nice way to integrate the control and operation of the DVD player with the TV. I liked this feature.

Nice Features:
1. Manual picture settings (but, basic compared to other players).
2. Organized, easy to use reporting and control menu that is accessible during DVD play. This menu is large and clearly labeled.
3. Many display brightness control options allowing you to tailor the visual look of the units front display to virtually any desired mode of operation.
4. Instant replay, instant skip forward.
5. Nice comprehensive remote. Some buttons are small and hard to read in low light, no backlighting. But, all important functions are available and would be easy to transfer to any universal remote.
6. HDMI-HDMI cable, HDMI-DVI cable, and an AnyNet Cable are included.

Problem Areas:
1. PQ was not as good as other units tested. Seemed not as sharp, rougher. Others on the forum have called it muddy or dull. It was not acceptable. This was a surprise to me because I had viewed the player at Magnolia HiFi a few weeks ago and it had seemed nice there. I learned NEVER try to evaluate a DVD player in a store! It takes careful setup and hours of viewing to form competent opinions.
2. White LCD front panel was cosmetically unattractive and hard to read. It is worthless unless you are right next to the player, but the on-screen information function is nice and can be used instead. This is stark contrast to my two year old Samsung DVD-HD931, which had an excellent display and the other players in this comparison that had displays that were readable from quite a distance.
3. Only one way to set audio out. So either the TV can get PCM and work or your receiver can get DD/DTS and work. If sending DD/DTS to receiver you get annoying HDMI audio error messages on your display. This problem totally amazes me, it was present in the 2004 models and would be obvious with any product testing at all.
4. Player seemed cheaper than the others in the test (weight, connectors, display, plastic front panel, indicator lamps), but the black color minimized the cosmetic problems. Player could seem out of place cosmetically if you have other expensive components.
5. Player did not remember settings, such as the screen messages off setting and LCD display off setting making it impossible to create a work around for other problems.
6. No audio-video sync function. This was offered by some of the other players in the comparison. AV sync is a requirement so if the player does not do it you should consider a receiver with the capability or an external sync solution.


Comments:

I think everyone knows that I am a big Samsung enthusiast, so it hurts to say that I did not like this player. Actually, after a week, I really started to dislike it. Compared to the performance and features included on the other players in this test, it seemed like an incomplete engineering prototype a stripped down basic player. I could go into more detail about this player, but it would be waste of your time reading it and my time writing it.

=======


DVD Player: Panasonic DVD-S97
Chip Technology: Genesis FLI-2310 Deinterlacer
Firmware: 86H362 July 2005 Mfg Date, Revised S97 (procedure to check firmware level in service menu ... with the power on to the unit; press at same time PAUSE + EJECT and then 7 on the remote.)
List Price: $299

Overall Performance:
>HLRxxx8W Compatibility (Low, Med, High): High
>HLRxxx8W Performance Impression (Low, Med, High): High

Output Resolution Tested: 1080i
Other Resolutions Offered (via HDMI): 480p, 720p

Basic Tests:
> Blacker-Than-Black: Passed
> Macroblocking: Yes, but generally not present or not significant.

Important Features to Enhance HLRxxx8W Performance:
1. Ability to send PCM digital audio to TV over HDMI *AND* send DD/DTS to your receiver. This allows you to use either your TV audio or the receiver audio without making any adjustments to your DVD player.
2. Five PQ modes that are accessible through a single button on the remote. I really like this PQ feature. Think of this feature like the picture modes in your DLP (ie. movie, standard, custom, and dynamic).
3. A/V sync capability (up to 100 ms, 10 ms increments). I did not get as much testing time with this feature, so you should probably confirm that it works over the optical / coax digital outputs correctly. It appeared to be working.

Nice Features:
1. Sharp, nice picture. Unfortunately, macroblocking is present. The player that I was evaluating was the revised version of the S97 with the latest firmware. Macroblocking appeared to be very comparable to what is seen on the latest version of the OPPO. I believe both players have integrated the latest Genesis firmware. This has yielded significant improvements over earlier versions of this player.
2. Quality look, build. I like the style of this player. It has a large blue light above the DVD tray that makes changing disc's convenient nice feature. If you don't like lights on your player it can be turned off.. The players operational buttons were easy to use because of their position and angle. The player also had three LED lights indication HDMI operational status and other items. Nice.
3. Clear, easy to read setup menus. Crisp nicely designed setup and operational menus. This player seems nice and refined in terms of it's control menus.
4. Organized, easy to use control menu that is accessible during DVD play. These menus are large and clearly labeled. This player offered extensive control in it's operational menu. Plus a simple, elapsed time (and remaining time) only menu for quick checks of where you are in a movie. Nice.
5. Many front panel display brightness control options allowing you to tailor the visual look of the unit's display to virtually any desired mode of operation. This player had the largest, nicest display of any of the players that I reviewed. I really like this feature. I could easily read the display from my normal viewing distance.
6. Instant replay. Plus scan back / forward.
7. Extensive manual picture settings. Brightness, contrast, color, hue, gamma, several noise reduction options. Very comprehensive and very nice. These settings were in addition to extensive configuration options in it's setup menu. Nice.
8. All menus (setup, operational) were exceptionally nice graphics and very clear and easy to read. The unit had a refined, polished look.
9. Placement of HDMI input and digital audio connections makes access easy in cabinet.
10. HDMI output supports 10 or 11 bit connection. I haven't completed my research in this area, but this design supports more than the 8 bit format on DVI based players. But, please remember all DVD's are encoded in 8 bits.
11. 5 disc play position memory.
12. Nice remote. No backlighting. But, all important functions (and many unique, nice functions) are available and would be easy to transfer to any universal remote.
13. Player includes a HDMI - HDMI cable. It is a light weight cable, but will get up setup and operational.

Problem Areas:
1. Macroblocking - video noise: Unfortunately this player, like all other Genesis FL2310 based players reviewed, exhibits marcoblocking on the Samsung 1080p sets. But, the problems are generally not visible or significant. The macroblocking was comparable to what is visible on the OPPO (which uses the same Genesis FL2310 chip).


Comments:

I really liked this DVD player. In terms of it's style, display, lighted DVD, tray, and easy to use buttons it was a nice unit physically. The unit also has nicely executed and extensive setup and operational menus. It offered more setup and operational control features than any other player in these tests. It offered a huge number of convenient and thoughtful features that gave the user excellent control over navigation, configuration, and viewing. This player has a smooth, sharp, and stable picture. It is only degraded occasionally by macroblocking. In most movies this will not be visible, but in a macroblocking torture test like Master and Commander it will be an issue. The picture and macroblocking is very similar to the OPPO. Both the OPPO and the S97 are very highly rated on Secrets of Home Theater. If you are comparing the two Genesis players to the Sony DVP-NS975V on Secrets of Home Theater, you will notice the Sony got a substantially lower rating. This was because the Sony did not pass BTB. Please be aware that the 975 (firmware 1.90) passes BTB in Manual, Cinema 1, and Cinema 2 modes so it's rating would be higher. The 975 did fail my chroma tests, but I did not see any problems with this flaw in over 60 hours of DVD video reviewed. Back to the Panasonic, the convenience features on this player can not be beat and are as complete as the feature rich Sony 975.


> Bill
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post #5 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 03:05 AM
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It's good to see this come into fruition. It's been a long road, hasn't it?
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post #6 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 03:43 AM
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UCSB: I'm really happy *you* posted this thread! Anyone else could have started the thread, but knowing you, things will be maintained and there will be more information here than we could all dream about together! We have a long and happy road, thanks very much to UCSB, TVAuthority, TetsujinWave, Daphoid, Samsung, Kirk, Cambryn and many others!!!
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post #7 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 05:11 AM
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I have a question? Is there anything we can feed these donkeys to get them to trot faster?

rather be lucky than good.
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post #8 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 06:46 AM
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Please test out an XBOX on the 6168 and let use know about the "lag". I have one on order from TVA as well. If there is lag, SORRY - but I am sending it back for the new MITS DLP and I might even consider the LG 50PY2DR Plasma or the Panny TH-50PHD7UY or even the newer TH-50PHD8UY. Too many good TVs out there to choose from..

Hopefully, I won't have to waste any time or money shipping that 61" back to TVA.

Keep us posted guys! Have fun too, you know we are jealous. I can't wait to get my tracking number from TVA.
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post #9 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 07:17 AM
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Finally! An owners thread. Hopefully most of us preorders will be watching the set by the last week in July. I had hoped to get by my local Tweeters today and compare their 61" Samsung 1080P with their Qualia 006 but NTB screwed me and broake a post on my wheel so I had to sit around for 3 hours waiting for them to fix it. Maybe I can get by there tomorrow or tonight.
Has anyone recieved their sets yet from the first 30 that was shipped from TVA?

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post #10 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 07:40 AM
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As I am #1 on the waiting list for a HLR6168 from TVA, I expect to be one of the first to get one (it depends on how fast the donkey gets over the Sierras and to Colorado - at least I am on the west side of the Rockies so the donkey doesn't have to climb them ). The shipping company has informed me that the sets are currently in transit. It appears that the expected arrival date is the same for everyone and is listed as Friday 7/22. I'll post my impressions as soon as I get it.
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post #11 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 07:49 AM
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Spent some time looking at the internal components images posted on the FCC website. As was expected the internals for the 68/78 are identical. The block diagrams posted for the 68/78/88 are also the same. However the pictures for the digital board for the 68/78 and that for the 88 are significantly different. I at first thought this might have to do with the pedestal configuration (and that might end up being what it is) but the digital boards were very close in size but with very different layouts. Unfortunately the pictures for the 68/78 are not nearly as clear as those for the 88, so it is extremely difficult to determine if there are differences in chips. As we proceed it will be interesting to note whether there are differences between the 68/78 and the 88 sets.
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post #12 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 08:21 AM
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I was pleased to see UCSB start this thread. I knew it was only a matter of time! Samsung ought to take you on board, you and this thread resulted in me buying a 5668. I rely on folks like you to help me make informed decisions. I research just about every large purchase (my wife thinks too much), but then I find a way to get the best deal possible on these items. Thanks to all who post.

These are unanswered questions from the 2005 thread. Can anyone help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLApilot View Post

I will be getting one of the first 5668s from TVA...hopefully next week on the southeast coast. I am contemplating receivers and the cabling. Should I press for an HDMI switching system? Will a component switching receiver be OK? Should I send only audio to the AVR and bypass getting onscreen info from the receiver and run HDMI from my HD DVR? I am at a loss and need to think of cabling so I can make inputs back to you folks.

I will be hooking up a PS via component and will report back on that as well. Added the 950 for comparison also. Anything I am missing?

Scott

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post #13 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schaffer970 View Post

Spent some time looking at the internal components images posted on the FCC website. As was expected the internals for the 68/78 are identical. The block diagrams posted for the 68/78/88 are also the same. However the pictures for the digital board for the 68/78 and that for the 88 are significantly different. I at first thought this might have to do with the pedestal configuration (and that might end up being what it is) but the digital boards were very close in size but with very different layouts. Unfortunately the pictures for the 68/78 are not nearly as clear as those for the 88, so it is extremely difficult to determine if there are differences in chips. As we proceed it will be interesting to note whether there are differences between the 68/78 and the 88 sets.

Could you list the fcc site they were displayed on thanx.GPS shows donkey croosing over to Nevada headed east lol

Matt

HL-R5688/HL-S5687
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post #14 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 10:12 AM
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FCC SITE LINK

What I have found that works the best is to put "samsung" in Applicant Name, put the date range you are interested in (I usually start 01/01/2005 to current date) in Grant Date Range, "dlp" in Product Description and finally change Show 10 Records at a Time to 100. Then search.

The 88 is FCC ID A3LAT56L7X, while the 68/78 are A3LAT67L6D & A3LAT71L6D.

You can search for other manufactures etc, trying various combinations of search items. One thing to remember is that a number of Japanese manufactures do not show up. We (the USA) apparently have trade agreements that allow certain countries (or groups of countries) to do their own testing and we simply accept that they meet standards.
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post #15 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 10:24 AM
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I have my eye on the 7178 and have been browsing the pdf version of the manual. What I don't see is any info on the RS-232C port and the Service port (that looks like it might be USB).

Does Samsung provide software with their HDTVs to let you access the RS-232C port and, if so, what it it used for? Is there any available online documentation?

And does anyone have any experience using a 'Service' port for a software upgrade on a Samsung TV? Is it a USB connector?
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post #16 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 10:49 AM
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Do we know for sure what chips are in which sets(interests in the 88 chip)and what the differences are in the HD3 to the HD4 just

Matt

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post #17 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 11:03 AM
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Anyone have a 6768 on order (or better yet, at home!)? This is the set that I am most interested in (it doesn't hurt that it was chosen "Best in Show" at CES)!

I am a little confused on the measurements for this item. With the base, the height is listed as 45.1 inches. Without the base, it is listed as 44.3 inches. How can this be?
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post #18 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 11:04 AM
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Quote:


9. Can you get 1:1 pixel mapping of a computer input on the PC/VGA input (at 1920x1080)? On HDMI? If so, how exactly is it setup and what picture mode do you use?

According to the 68 series manual, it looks like 1:1 pixel mapping is possible through the D-Sub connector. Check out page 130, "The optimal resolution is 1920 x 1080 @ 60Hz."
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post #19 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 11:22 AM
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It's amazing how this thread has already side-tracked....
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post #20 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

Anyone have a 6768 on order (or better yet, at home!)? This is the set that I am most interested in (it doesn't hurt that it was chosen "Best in Show" at CES)!

I am a little confused on the measurements for this item. With the base, the height is listed as 45.1 inches. Without the base, it is listed as 44.3 inches. How can this be?

I have it on pre-order with TVA...#1 in line...I will be removing the base as I did with my HLP6163. It looks like the base fits into the Samsung stand in the pictures above. There is also a tech drawing above of the 6768.

Joe V.
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post #21 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 01:34 PM
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Thanks Joe.

Be sure to post your review as soon as you can after you get your set!

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post #22 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

Anyone have a 6768 on order (or better yet, at home!)? This is the set that I am most interested in (it doesn't hurt that it was chosen "Best in Show" at CES)!

I am a little confused on the measurements for this item. With the base, the height is listed as 45.1 inches. Without the base, it is listed as 44.3 inches. How can this be?

Check out the 6768 technical drawing link in POST #2 above. It has all of the measurements for the 6768, including the base.

> Bill
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post #23 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UCSB View Post

Check out the 6768 technical drawing link in POST #2 above. It has all of the measurements for the 6768, including the base.

Yep, I saw it after Joe's post. Thanks Bill, and sorry for missing it.
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post #24 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 03:06 PM
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Jumpin the gun a little aint we? I mean don't get me wrong, Ive been waiting for these as long as anybody, but unless someone actually Owns one and it's sitting in their living room I dont see how there's an owners thread? haha.. I hear there are some display models around but can you actually buy those? Im not being pessimistic, but if it's still 2-3 weeks away (maybe more) kinda ghey that all these companies said end of June, shipping... I hope people start getting their orders IN! Just to end these rumors I keep hearing about Problems with the Sammy's and Mitsi's.

Tosh 42HP95 - What's SSE? :P
Had SXRD 50 - I was a believer, and maybe will be again someday. Time will tell I guess.
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post #25 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulyC View Post

Jumpin the gun a little aint we? I mean don't get me wrong, Ive been waiting for these as long as anybody, but unless someone actually Owns one and it's sitting in their living room I dont see how there's an owners thread? haha.. I hear there are some display models around but can you actually buy those? Im not being pessimistic, but if it's still 2-3 weeks away (maybe more) kinda ghey that all these companies said end of June, shipping... I hope people start getting their orders IN! Just to end these rumors I keep hearing about Problems with the Sammy's and Mitsi's.




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post #26 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
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All in favor?

-Mr. Wigggles

Absolutely!
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post #27 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
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I will delete thread in a matter of hours myself, but I hearby nominate UCSB an all powerful moderator so he can clean up this OWNER's THREAD.

All in favor?

-Mr. Wigggles

Definitely - an Owners Thread should be for Owners to discuss with other
Owners, to post reviews of their set and for non-Owners and potential
Owners to ask questions of Owners...

 

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post #28 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWigggles View Post

I will delete thread in a matter of hours myself, but I hearby nominate UCSB an all powerful moderator so he can clean up this OWNER's THREAD.

All in favor?

-Mr. Wigggles

Agreed!!!

Joe V.
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post #29 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkaStp View Post

Yes, indeed. Just like the other main thread. And this one has only been alive for ~12 hours! I would prefer that all of the endless rambling about waiting, impatience, position-in-line, pre-orders, "I can't wait", "Where's my f**king TV", status, delivery, donkeys, etc be done in the Power-Buy thread and keep this thread (and the main thread) for discussions, reviews, etc about the actual TVs.

Yes, But I have constantly asked questions of the experts and get nothing but donkey progress and where is my TV. I am exasperated at asking questions, let unanswered and largely ignored. I will sort it out once the TV arrives and go from there. Lots of postulation, but I was in fact asking somewhat pertitent info . Maybe you have it our for Milirary guys. Don't know. I am finished asking unanswered questions. Thanks to all who helped me make the decision.
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post #30 of 12093 Old 07-16-2005, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Pleasanton, CA (San Francisco Bay Area)
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Yikes ... everyone calm down. I'm not a moderator so I can not change the thread in any way (except my own POSTS). Even if I was, I wouldn't because no one has done anything wrong. I set the thread up because I expected some people to have their sets (5078's) by this weekend. Certainly dozens of people will be receiving their TV's over the next week. A little patience, please.

I also thought that people would possibly ask setup questions (like FLApilot's), compare design and setup ideas (schaffer970's custom stand), and finalize our open list of issues. One area I was hoping to write a post on myself was the method we could use to test and report performance with gaming systems. This is always confusing, usually for weeks, and I believe that we have learned enough to do a better job this time around.

Anyway, let's not pick on each other ... it really take the fun out of the hobby.

> Bill
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